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Prairiehiker -> Clueless (9/17/2008 7:28:49 PM)

This is coming from the women from the Singles forum. There was a discussion there about men being clueless about interpreting the signals the women send them. They have no clue if women are interested in them, according to some of the men's assertion. Certainly, this can't be true, can it? I mean, I always know when some one's interested granted that I'm not so distracted by my own emotions that i can't read the signs properly.


So, men, care to enlighten us? Are you clueless?



APZR -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 9:05:00 PM)

Hints, innuendos, and mild flirtation means nothing to most guys. If you are interested, you best be straight up and say so. It's just they way testosterone works, looking for facts and positive confirmation.



John_O -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 9:15:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
So, men, care to enlighten us? Are you clueless?


Every single time. The only way I knew M was interested is that she asked me out. Looking back over my life I can see bunches of women who were interested in me. At teh time I didn't have a clue.

Normally I'll have someone say something like "so and so likes you" and I'll respond "No way" I don't see anything. And I never do.

So as APZR said, Most men do not pick up on clues. At all. Ever.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 10:10:32 PM)

agree with above answers. also if you follow what those same women are posting in singles forum, you'll see that they are very tenative in their hint dropping or don't drop for fear of being considered a chaser.



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 10:20:29 PM)

I mean, c'mon, those women go out on dates with the men, and you'd still think that those men are clueless? Like, how slow can men be? What else do these women need to do for men to know that they are interested?



DrivenbyGod -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 10:56:37 PM)

quote:

So, men, care to enlighten us? Are you clueless?


Yep, I'm some what clueless... It depends on the woman though. There have been many times where I new immediately, but only in my younger years can I recall them. The older I've become the harder it is to tell. I think most older women are too subtle and give us too much credit for being able to know. You need to take out a club and hit us over the head like a cave woman.. and say hey I like you! Make it easy on us.

I really don't like the mixed signals either, because that's when we have to ask you out to figure out if your interested or not.. and usually it's NOT.



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 11:00:55 PM)

Calling OneJohn410. We need your words of wisdom in here.



DrivenbyGod -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 11:18:29 PM)

quote:

Calling OneJohn410. We need your words of wisdom in here.


Pfft! What are replies weren't good enough for ya!? LOL [8D]



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 11:20:18 PM)

quote:

Pfft! What are replies weren't good enough for ya!? LOL


DId I hurt your feewings??? Sowie!

John 410 has a way with words, and I need my entertainment, lol.



netstroller -> RE: Clueless (9/17/2008 11:53:51 PM)

quote:

They have no clue if women are interested in them, according to some of the men's assertion. Certainly, this can't be true, can it?

It might be relatively easy to see that one person has some sort of "interest" in another, but it's extremely difficult to determine the exact nature of that interest. In fact, the person showing interest might not really know the exact nature of this interest. And even assuming some sort of romantic interest exists, there is no way to ascertain the significance of that interest.

quote:

I mean, I always know when some one's interested granted that I'm not so distracted by my own emotions that i can't read the signs properly.

No offense, but I think you'd be surprised, if you were able to actually verify every case of interest you've noticed, to find often the perceived interest is not the kind or degree you suspected. Body language can be very unreliable.

As I've said here numerous times before. The only sure way for a man to ascertain a woman's romantic interest is to ask her out. That will reveal meaningful interest on *both* sides. Everything else, speculation etc., is meaningless, granted it feels good to think another is interested in us even if they don't show it by any tangible action.



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 12:15:26 AM)

So, a woman flirting with you, monopolizing your time every chance she gets, agreeing to go out with you to dinner, is not an obvious sign of interests?



John_O -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 11:14:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

So, a woman flirting with you, monopolizing your time every chance she gets, agreeing to go out with you to dinner, is not an obvious sign of interests?


Here's the problem. We are all discussing "Does she like me enough to go out with me?" and you are discussing "OK you're dating, how do you know she likes you?"

The hardest part of any relationship is asking her out the first time. And we are clueless as to what the answer will be, regardless of what hints she's been dropping.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 11:39:57 AM)

Hi Prariehiker and Singles Forum Women (my, how charming you all look in your tackle the day outfits),

Now that I have your attention, what signal am I sending you, hmm?? Is it a green light? Is it a sign with the word me? printed on it? How can you tell. I mean, the setting we find ourselves in typically doesn't have computers with names over them where we can type things to each other, right? So, are there books to read about if the eyebrows are raised twice rapidly, that this means wow! I'd sure like to get to know you better, how about us spending some time together. Oh wait! That just happened again, maybe it's a nervous or spastic twitch for which there's no control.

Am I clueless? That's something to ponder. Has this world done a great job in destroying face to face, voice to voice conversation? Absolutely. And how can you trust someone that talks to you in person, right? It's so much easier to trust them when they call you on the phone, or raise their eyebrows in subliminal conversation. Fear of rejection? What is that next to letting one of you ladies not know you may well stand out from everyone in the room, and look like you need a friend? What if someone's voice was the signal? Sure, there's friendliness, courtesy, and then pushiness, overly-flirtatiousness, and unexpected self-whining about oh, I don't know if I'll ever get married. I've had so much trouble in my life. Yes, there's people on both sides of this that for some reason quickly can dwell on past hurts and disappointments, and frustrations. How interesting is that, y'know? Others quickly want to sense what your problem is, why is a girl/guy like you alone in a place like this? Then presecribe what they (as a single person in a place like this as well) would do to correct things, followed by good luck, and off they go.

So guys probably talk less because they've got text messages on their phone, or are wrapped up by sports on the TV, or have bumped into some of their good buddies. And ladies are probably grouped together talking about whatever they talk about, where the guys can't tell who's having the birthday party with their friends, and who's genuinely also a single person.

Such a big OP, Prariehiker! I'm exhausted, and will have to return to laugh hysterically at what I've typed. Still, today's big thought is a good bit more talk, and a lot less signals.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

This is coming from the women from the Singles forum. There was a discussion there about men being clueless about interpreting the signals the women send them. They have no clue if women are interested in them, according to some of the men's assertion. Certainly, this can't be true, can it? I mean, I always know when some one's interested granted that I'm not so distracted by my own emotions that i can't read the signs properly.


So, men, care to enlighten us? Are you clueless?



mrtigger -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 12:08:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

So, men, care to enlighten us? Are you clueless?


Guys often find it hard to read women but we aren't entirely clueless either. I've been told that women are very perceptive in sensing when a guy has romantic interest in them but I don't think that is really as true as they claim. I am sure we are on average more clueless than women though.

My own dating experience was decades ago but my experience then was that I was correctly reading a womans interest about 1/2 the time. Flirting was a pretty clear sign of it but anything subtler than that was not very dependable. Even flirting is not always reliable -- some women just do it just to get attention & ego strokes, not because they are actually interested in the guy.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 12:16:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
Here's the problem. We are all discussing "Does she like me enough to go out with me?" and you are discussing "OK you're dating, how do you know she likes you?"


yes you are changing the question. and it's very rare to see posts in singles forum from women "flirting, monopolizing time every chance she gets, agreeing to dinner" ... it's all i like this guy and want him to ask me out. that isnt a criticism of their posts, i just don't seem it match with your questions.



APZR -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 12:29:36 PM)

It boils down to the way we analyze data. Women tend to look for emotional responses, "listen to their heart", and listen to the tone of voice.

Men tend to look for cold hard facts, listening to the words rather than the tone of voice, and require positive confirmation before accepting any risk.

Neither is right or wrong, just different means of communication. If you are really confused, maybe check out five love languages. Everyone expresses their love in different ways, and you have to figure out which language your prospect uses to express love.



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 1:27:32 PM)

I’m not changing the question. This post was directly precipitated by one very specific post in the Singles forum where all the men agreed completely when someone commented that they are clueless. The situation was , the woman has gone out with the man, she’s spent a lot of time with himin church activities, talked to him so many times....yet, people seems to think that the man is still clueless about whether she’s interested in him or not. C’mon, don’t tell me you’d still be clueless about how a woman feels you after spending that much amount of time with her.?

I used to spend a lot of time with male friends, and trust me, there's no way they'd be askign that question whether I'm interested or not. My O line is inpenetrable when I'm not interested.



John_O -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 4:44:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

I’m not changing the question. This post was directly precipitated by one very specific post in the Singles forum where all the men agreed completely when someone commented that they are clueless. The situation was , the woman has gone out with the man, she’s spent a lot of time with himin church activities, talked to him so many times....yet, people seems to think that the man is still clueless about whether she’s interested in him or not. C’mon, don’t tell me you’d still be clueless about how a woman feels you after spending that much amount of time with her.?

I used to spend a lot of time with male friends, and trust me, there's no way they'd be askign that question whether I'm interested or not. My O line is inpenetrable when I'm not interested.


Was this the one where they went out kind of as friends? If so, then yes he could still be clueless. The friend/potential line is seldom breached so (I'd assume) most guys wouldn't be able to tell when she moves him from the ghetto into the potential pool again. (I for one have never experienced a girl who had me assigned as "friend" becomming interested in me later. Or if she did I missed it. clueless)



willfs -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 5:18:36 PM)

Yeah, I don't think we are totally clueless. It also depends on the degree of the woman's interest as well as how big of an extrovert she is. If she is mildy interested or shy then we might not pick up on anything. However, I will admit that when I was younger I hurt some girls because I thought they wanted friendship when they really wanted more. I like to think I am not so naive anymore.

If a guy really wants to know then he should ask her out.

Guys who act clueless may be trying to cover up their fickleness, lack of interest, indecisivness, or something like that.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 6:25:32 PM)

John_O is on to something. For me, just looking back at this again, the hard part is that we are way beyond liking and going out on a date. The guy is either a real jerk, a real detached Researcher of his heart and his social future, or he likes the girl. It's not about asking her out on a date, she's already asked the guy out. And to church. And he's gone along. Are we as guys clueless at this point? I seriously doubt it. Are we comfortable with this relationship? Who's making the plans, the invitations, the initiations? Not the guy, right? Not even a little? Do we feel we are the catcher's mitt and she is the 90mph fastball? Could be. There's definitely a clue there of her intent... the more time together doesn't bother her one bit.

Are we clueless? Now that's a double-edged question. Because unless a guy has got a clue as to his own life and who he might marry and share the rest of it with, he's clueless about himself.

So the answer could obviously be no and yes.[;)]

On to chapter 2 in part 2,
OneJohn410



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 8:14:13 PM)

quote:

Are we clueless? Now that's a double-edged question. Because unless a guy has got a clue as to his own life and who he might marry and share the rest of it with, he's clueless about himself


Well, John410, that's some words of wisdom enough to bring this thread to a halt. A lot of the messages that we send are done through non verbal communications. People pick up on how you act as opposed to what you say. So, maybe it's in the deepening self awareness that we are able to give and receive better communications from each other, and maybe that should lead to more open verbal communication to confirm if the signals sent are perceived correctly. Does that make sense?

To relate this to situations I used to often find myself in. I used to hang out with a some male friends? The "why" is not the issue so I won't go there. In the past, I never gave any indication that I am interested, but just the fact that i hung out with them, joining them in their activities, were often misconstrued as interest even though I have this imaginary 6 ft wall around me. So, for some, it boils down to certain expectations that are not communicated ahead of time. The thinking goes, " If I went with him, that means I like him...when all I was looking for is a killer work out through the woods. I've gotten better at letting people know way ahead of time that they are just in the "friendzone" so that there's no miscommunications. I've also lost a lot of hiking buddies...which is kinda sad.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 10:09:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
I’m not changing the question. This post was directly precipitated by one very specific post in the Singles forum where all the men agreed completely when someone commented that they are clueless. The situation was , the woman has gone out with the man, she’s spent a lot of time with himin church activities, talked to him so many times....yet, people seems to think that the man is still clueless about whether she’s interested in him or not. C’mon, don’t tell me you’d still be clueless about how a woman feels you after spending that much amount of time with her.?


i didn't mean you were changing it from the singles post but from what you seemed to be asking originally. if a guy says he doesn't realize a girl who's asked him to dinner, and all that other jazz doesn't like her... i think it's more likely he's just not interested rather than clueless.



netstroller -> RE: Clueless (9/18/2008 10:13:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

So, a woman flirting with you, monopolizing your time every chance she gets, agreeing to go out with you to dinner, is not an obvious sign of interests?

Looks like this is a reply to my post. If it is, I'd say where was this in the OP? BTW, IIR i did say acceptance of a date is a sure way to ascertain a certain level of romantic interest. So yes, as I said, if she "agreeing to go out with you to dinner" would say to me she at least has some romantic interest in me at this point in time. That is assuming the date invitation was clearly for a date date, not one of those vague invitations where the woman don't know if she's being invited as a friend or as a romantic interest.



bigfrank -> RE: Clueless (9/19/2008 4:00:39 AM)

quote:

The situation was , the woman has gone out with the man, she’s spent a lot of time with himin church activities, talked to him so many times....yet, people seems to think that the man is still clueless about whether she’s interested in him or not. C’mon, don’t tell me you’d still be clueless about how a woman feels you after spending that much amount of time with her.?


I'll tell you why men are clueless. It's because most of us have seen those signals before and they came from a flirty person or even a non flirty person who, upon further investigation, wasn't actually interested. Yes, it has happened to me multiple times. And I've picked up way more signals than that. Now, I want to know how to tell if a woman is REALLY actually interested. Then I'd be getting somewhere. Sure, I've picked up on people being actually really interested in me, but those ones honestly scared me. But if interest detection can be established, there would be a significantly higher success rate. Let me know how to tell.



Prairiehiker -> RE: Clueless (9/19/2008 3:18:57 PM)

Big Frank, if I had the time, I'd definitely try to invent an interest detection device that's 100 foolproof. It certainly would make our life easier but it would also allow us to miss out on lessons we learn along the way if we only learn to relate to each other. If we keep trying, and keep expressing ourselves, taking every chances, though we're not likely to bat 100%, but by the time you hit a grand slam, you'd probably learn a lot about how the whole "game" work. I'm not saying that dating is a game.



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