Markets Crashing...?

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Thessa -> Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 9:08:40 AM)
Does this have anything at all to do with the end times? Is it biblical what happened yesterday?

WesP -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 9:23:21 AM)
It is way too early to tell, as yet. It is not really a crash until the market cannot sustain itself. There will be widespread hunger, homelessness, etc. on a scale that has not been seen before. There will also be a major escalation of violence, etc. While the markets are a concern right now, I am not about to get fired up. [;)]

Sinner-Saint -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 9:38:29 AM)
First of all, I do not relegate the seven Seals on a one-for-one basis to the one 'seven' despite the similarity of number. Furthermore, nothing in the Bible states they are only part of the one 'seven.' The first four Seals have been associated with the end-times for centuries so much so that they are seen as almost going to battle at Armageddon, the last battle in the one 'seven.' However, if you look in Zechariah, he sees these four chariots coming out of the 'heavenly realm' as spirits which go to work in the world. I think the first four Seals are these spirits and that they are at work in the world so as to shape it for the end-times. I think the effects these spirits bring are sequential are revealed in Revelation and that they are building over time. Therefore, the economic distress we are seeing in the Capitalistic system (itself a named god in opposition to God: "Mammon") is just part of God's plan to throw the earth into such turmoil that the tares of this age actually flock to the anti-Christ who is still to come. I'd say not to worry too much and don't put your faith in your 401K (which is still safe) to save you. That, along with Capitialism, is a form of anti-Christ.

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 9:46:51 AM)
If a stock market crash is a sign of the end, then that happened in 1929. The Dow did not return to pre-1929 levels until late 1954! Take a few moments to see just how far we are from then: LINK

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 9:53:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint Therefore, the economic distress we are seeing in the Capitalistic system (itself a named god in opposition to God: "Mammon") is just part of God's plan to throw the earth.... That is a silly assertion and cannot be supported by scripture. The worship of money is a sin but a capitalistic system is praised throughout the Bible. Even the Apostle Paul paid for his missionary journeys through making and selling tents.

Thessa -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 1:29:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch If a stock market crash is a sign of the end, then that happened in 1929. The Dow did not return to pre-1929 levels until late 1954! Take a few moments to see just how far we are from then: LINK I wasnt talking about EVERY stock market crash. If you re-read my post i said the one YESTERDAY. __________________ Thank you Wes and Sinner-Saint.

MrFribbles -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 1:43:54 PM)
quote: I wasnt talking about EVERY stock market crash. If you re-read my post i said the one YESTERDAY. I think that was his point. To put it another way, why should we think that the "crash" yesterday was a sign of the end times if one much, much worse was not?

Thessa -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 1:56:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote: I wasnt talking about EVERY stock market crash. If you re-read my post i said the one YESTERDAY. I think that was his point. To put it another way, why should we think that the "crash" yesterday was a sign of the end times if one much, much worse was not? I didnt say that i thought it was a sign. I was asking if it was or not. And obviously the one in the 20s wasnt a sign...

WesP -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa quote: ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote: I wasnt talking about EVERY stock market crash. If you re-read my post i said the one YESTERDAY. I think that was his point. To put it another way, why should we think that the "crash" yesterday was a sign of the end times if one much, much worse was not? I didnt say that i thought it was a sign. I was asking if it was or not. And obviously the one in the 20s wasnt a sign... heh, heh... Thessa, I think that sometimes the basis behind a question can be so obvious that people completely miss it. [;)]

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:20:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa quote: ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote: I wasnt talking about EVERY stock market crash. If you re-read my post i said the one YESTERDAY. I think that was his point. To put it another way, why should we think that the "crash" yesterday was a sign of the end times if one much, much worse was not? I didnt say that i thought it was a sign. I was asking if it was or not. And obviously the one in the 20s wasnt a sign... Then why would a much, much milder one be any kind of sign? I've read where some folk truly believe we are living in perilous times. I submit that those people have either never seen truly perilous times or they dozed through history classes. Even the 1960s were far worse than today with rioting in major cities across the country and unarmed students shot dead by National Guard on a college campus and leader after leader being shot or assassinated and more than 50,000 military killed overseas... I know the end time gurus on radio, TV, and other media NEED it to be perilous times, but we don't have to be gullible.

WesP -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:36:11 PM)
quote: I've read where some folk truly believe we are living in perilous times. I submit that those people have either never seen truly perilous times Well, that's the thing. Many of us do not know peril. The US as a whole does not know what daily danger is at all. Sadly enough, I believe that the end will be much more tragic for us than for most of the free world because we are so out of touch with reality as it is in other places.

Thessa -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa quote: ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote: I wasnt talking about EVERY stock market crash. If you re-read my post i said the one YESTERDAY. I think that was his point. To put it another way, why should we think that the "crash" yesterday was a sign of the end times if one much, much worse was not? I didnt say that i thought it was a sign. I was asking if it was or not. And obviously the one in the 20s wasnt a sign... Then why would a much, much milder one be any kind of sign? I've read where some folk truly believe we are living in perilous times. I submit that those people have either never seen truly perilous times or they dozed through history classes. Even the 1960s were far worse than today with rioting in major cities across the country and unarmed students shot dead by National Guard on a college campus and leader after leader being shot or assassinated and more than 50,000 military killed overseas... I know the end time gurus on radio, TV, and other media NEED it to be perilous times, but we don't have to be gullible. I didnt say it was a sign. I was ASKING if anyone of you thought it was one. Im just not as smart about the end times as some of you apparently are. I want you to spell out for me exactly what to look for. [:)] Then maybe you can become one of the gurus on the radio and tv as well.

Thessa -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:49:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WesP quote: I've read where some folk truly believe we are living in perilous times. I submit that those people have either never seen truly perilous times Well, that's the thing. Many of us do not know peril. The US as a whole does not know what daily danger is at all. Sadly enough, I believe that the end will be much more tragic for us than for most of the free world because we are so out of touch with reality as it is in other places. I agree totally.

cow451 -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:54:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa Does this have anything at all to do with the end times? Is it biblical what happened yesterday? No and No (if mean fulfillment of scriptural prophecy).

Thessa -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 2:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa Does this have anything at all to do with the end times? Is it biblical what happened yesterday? No and No (if mean fulfillment of scriptural prophecy). Yes. Thank you for answering and thats exactly what i meant.

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 3:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa ...Then maybe you can become one of the gurus on the radio and tv as well. No thanks. I understand the Great Commission to mean that we should be sharing the Gospel to the lost and disciplining the young in Christ rather than trying to match up today's newspaper with Revelation or Daniel or Tim LaHaye's latest book. [;)]

Thessa -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 3:32:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: Thessa ...Then maybe you can become one of the gurus on the radio and tv as well. No thanks. I understand the Great Commission to mean that we should be sharing the Gospel to the lost and disciplining the young in Christ rather than trying to match up today's newspaper with Revelation or Daniel or Tim LaHaye's latest book. [;)] So you arent gonna tell me what is to happen in the end times?

MrFribbles -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 7:30:10 PM)
quote: So you arent gonna tell me what is to happen in the end times? Nobody knows exactly. There are many views on the matter, and all of them are biblical to some extent. If anyone ever tells you "This is the way it's going to go, and it can't go any other way!", they're wrong. ...Unless they "this" they're talking about is the fact that Jesus is coming back, and God wins in the end. That, I think, we can all agree on.

FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/16/2008 9:45:13 PM)
quote: If a stock market crash is a sign of the end, then that happened in 1929. The Dow did not return to pre-1929 levels until late 1954! This is a good point that shouldn't be overlooked in the current crisis. Right now the market has not slid so far that it is in the toilet, it only feels like it. Need I remind us all, in '96 people were saying that the DJIA would never hit 11,000 points... then it did so in 99. So right now, the economy has regressed to where it was under Clinton. So what happened? MHO, the 2006 mid-terms. Adam

bob97 -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/17/2008 1:07:18 AM)
Sure Tresaa�I�ll give you my take on what to look for as the first major sign of the finial days. 1: There is no early rapture of the church; the church will be here for the major portion of the last week (last seven years of this age). 2: The first 3 � years of the week will be somewhat normal but it will be that time when the Antichrist will position himself to assume control of the world as such. It is very possible that there will be a major war in the Middle East centered on Jerusalem which will elevate the Antichrist into power. 3: The beginning of the week will see a peace treaty signed that will bring a false peace for Israel. It will be very difficult for this treaty to be identified exactly based on the fact that several treaties have been signed in the past that amounted to nothing. 4: The first thing to look for will be the construction of a new temple for Israel. This will not be a temple demanded by God but built by man for man. 5: In the middle of the week the Antichrist will break the treaty with Israel. This is the point where he will establish himself in the rebuilt temple and declare himself to be god. At the same time he will begin to persecute the people of Israel in a most dramatic fashion�those who do not accept him as god will be tortured and killed. What is normally referred to as the tribulation is the tribulation brought forth by the Antichrist against those who will not worship him as god. The wrath of God is a different subject and will start late in the week probably after the sixth year of the period. The Wrath of God is the punishment imposed against the Antichrist and those who worship him. The rapture of the church will occur just before the beginning of the Wrath of God�God tells us we will not endure his wrath. All of the above events could take many turns and possibly involve other areas of the world but IMO the major action will take place in the immediately area of Israel. Just how everything finally plays out is subject to great debate but in general what I�ve listed above is about the way many agree that it will happen. Now you can set back and see the many objections to this scenario. Bob

prophet -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/17/2008 3:39:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint Therefore, the economic distress we are seeing in the Capitalistic system (itself a named god in opposition to God: "Mammon") is just part of God's plan to throw the earth.... That is a silly assertion and cannot be supported by scripture. The worship of money is a sin but a capitalistic system is praised throughout the Bible. Even the Apostle Paul paid for his missionary journeys through making and selling tents. Not as silly as you would think.... The present scenario is a result of the deceiving fractional bank accounting systems which allow banks to leverage many times on their assets. This is a form of usury which is forbidden by God. This system has allowed banks to create money out of thin air with a stroke of the pen. This is deception of the capitalist banking system.

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/17/2008 7:48:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: prophet quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint Therefore, the economic distress we are seeing in the Capitalistic system (itself a named god in opposition to God: "Mammon") is just part of God's plan to throw the earth.... That is a silly assertion and cannot be supported by scripture. The worship of money is a sin but a capitalistic system is praised throughout the Bible. Even the Apostle Paul paid for his missionary journeys through making and selling tents. Not as silly as you would think.... Sure it is. Making a reasonable profit from your labor is biblical. That there are evil or greedy or stupid people abusing the system no more invalidates capitalism than the fact that there are hypocrites and predator pretenders among Christians.

Sinner-Saint -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/17/2008 8:45:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint Therefore, the economic distress we are seeing in the Capitalistic system (itself a named god in opposition to God: "Mammon") is just part of God's plan to throw the earth.... quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch That is a silly assertion and cannot be supported by scripture. I think you need to read Revelation chapter 18 again about merchants who buy and sell the souls of men. The Capitalistic system, which has brought so much economic prosperity to mankind in a revolutionary way (so much so that history records it as the Industrial Revolution) has chewed people up. Not only do we not rely upon the land to sustain us as Adam was forced to, but our richness has actually taken us away from having to rely upon God. While producing and trading goods via money is not evil per se, the system which has grown around it to allow multi-national corporations to literally throw their weight around. When this beast rolls around, people get hurt. Be careful what you hold in high esteem Jimbo.

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/17/2008 8:58:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint I think you need to read Revelation chapter 18 again... There are, LO, 66 books in the Bible. You can get a much better view of the WHOLE council of God by reading the other 65 too - without any agenda, only a desire to find Truth. quote: When this beast rolls around, people get hurt. Be careful what you hold in high esteem Jimbo. I, for one, do not fear that God is wringing His hands in heaven over how the state of our economy has surprised Him and that His people are going to suffer severe catastrophe due to His careless oversight.

JimboFletch -> RE: Markets Crashing...? (9/17/2008 9:00:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint The Capitalistic system, which has brought so much economic prosperity to mankind in a revolutionary way (so much so that history records it as the Industrial Revolution) has chewed people up. Which other failed system do you endorse instead - communism, socialism, the medieval feudal system?

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