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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/26/2008 1:45:36 AM
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GroupW
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In that case, you can take the following comments and take them for what their worth. If you don't like or agree with them, feel free to ignore them.
I'm of the opinion that the primary meaning of any bible passage is what the original writer wanted the original reader to hear and understand. I think this means understanding the historical situation of a writer so we can best understand what might have been going through his mind when he was writing. To understand the letters to the Corinthian church, I think we need to understand what life was like in Corinth.
When we fail to put a book in its historical context, I think we risk exactly the kind of cultural relativity that you're trying to avoid. I think it becomes very difficult to avoid reading the bible through the lenses of our CURRENT culture when we fail to account for the original culture in which a book was first written.
Just a thought. Feel free to ignore it if it bugs you. Certainly not my intent to be too annoying on the topic. I tend to feel strongly about this point, so it's sometimes hard to shut up.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/26/2008 9:51:47 AM
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cwb
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Iron sharpens iron Pr ? v ?
Only fools don't listen to others Pr ? v ?
Keep posting...
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We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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[Deleted] - 9/26/2008 10:07:51 AM
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/26/2008 10:25:29 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cwb
Iron sharpens iron Pr ? v ?
Only fools don't listen to others Pr ? v ?
I agree. Works for me. It's why I like these forums. A great place to get your ideas tested, sometimes by fire, but tested.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/27/2008 3:25:20 PM
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Marksman
Posts: 232
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From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
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GroupW has hit the nail on the head. Most of what has been written here is deciphered through the context of the 21st century church. The scriptures were not written with that in mind. Without its context the scripture has little value other than a vehicle to find a verse a day to bless me.
You cannot understand scripture unless you understand context. The church in the NT was nothing like the church today. There was no such thing as a paid pastor leading a local assembly. There was only one church in each town. The leadership was plural by unpaid elders. The head of the house was always the husband and the head of the local assembly were always men. No one was called anything, they only had ministries i.e. Paul an apostle.
Theré was no such thing as a paid pastor being called from another town to lead the local assembly. All the elders grew up in the assembly and were proven before they became elders. There was no such thing as a ministry to women, or children, or teens or men so they didn't need a women's pastor, a childrens pastor or a young people's pastor. The church was built on families, not individual ministries.
There were three types of ministries. One was those in Ephesians 4 given by Christ. There is no indication whether they were male or female. They were not the leaders of the church when elders had been appointed. The apostles led the Jerusalem church for 14 years before elders were appointed then they handed over to them and worked with them.
Paul told Timothy to appoint elders in all the churches. This must be our pattern. The apostles and prophets etc worked alongside the leaders who were male elders (17 verses).
Then there were the gifts of the spirit which were given by the Holy Spirit as it suited him. In the nine gifts listed, teaching is not included so although women could be and were used by the Spirit for the operation of the gifts, there was no gift of teaching in this respect. That was the province of the apostles and elders as in the apostles doctrine.
It is noticable that there was not one female apostle in the scriptures. They had female assistants and companions, but they were not apostles themselves.
One final thought. They met in homes. There was no public building where someone stood out the front and preached. That is a modern day construct as there was no such thing as clergy/laity divide in the NT church. All teaching was done in the context of meals in the home and please don't anyone say they met in the synagogue for this purpose as they didn't. All scripture and church history shows that they met in the synagogue for evangelsim.
if you want a fuller discourse on this subject go to my website http://churchalive66.googlepages.com
_____________________________
God Bless America
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2008 9:05:37 AM
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Marksman
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From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
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quote:
No thanks...you lost me when you said, "Dutch Sheets is the sort of person we need more of" on your blog. Do a little digging and you can always find out where people are coming from.
I have no idea what the import of this statement is. It is too cryptic for me.
_____________________________
God Bless America
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2008 1:23:57 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I understand it, Mark. You do a lot of advertising your site, then now this "Dutch Sheets" person. I went to your site, but there was no statement of what you believe with regard to the Scriptures, so I went to the "Dutch Sheets" site and found no statement of Scriptural beliefs there either. Am I not looking in the right places?
And the "Dutch Sheets" guy proclaims himself to be a prophet. I had never heard of him before today, but I would like to have it proven to me that he is one. Is he a fore-telling prophet? Because this is what he appears to be doing. And if he has ever foretold anything that didn't come true, may I cast the first stone? Well, maybe not, but if he has, he is a false prophet.
Oh, and another thing. You want people to "baptize in Jesus' name." What is His name, Mark?
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 9/28/2008 1:42:16 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2008 9:19:45 PM
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Marksman
Posts: 232
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From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
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quote:
I understand it, Mark. You do a lot of advertising your site, then now this "Dutch Sheets" person. I went to your site, but there was no statement of what you believe with regard to the Scriptures, so I went to the "Dutch Sheets" site and found no statement of Scriptural beliefs there either. Am I not looking in the right places?
You will have to forgive me for not beng a person that judges a book by its cover. What I believe is clearly presented in my website. Can I refer you to a scripture which says that Jesus said, "by this will all men know that you are my disciples that you love one another". He didn't say. "by this shall all men know that you are my disciples by the purity of your doctrine." Do I follow your take on things or what Jesus said? I think you know the answer to that. Having said that I understand that for too many christians you are only acceptable if you have the correct doctrine, that is why we have 35,000 denominations worldwide and that is why most churches do not talk to each other. T.D. Jakes calls it spiritual tribalism.
quote:
I had never heard of him before today, but I would like to have it proven to me that he is one.
I have never heard of you before today, but that does not mean that you haven't existed for 30/40 years or however old you are. Could I have proof that you are who you say you are? I have known him for years, so have many other recognised leaders in the apostolic movement of which he is a respected member of.
quote:
And if he has ever foretold anything that didn't come true, may I cast the first stone?
I am so glad that we do not serve the same God. Mine is loving and forgiving, and does not deal with me according to my imperfections. He is crazy about me so I have a wonderful father/son relationship with him.
quote:
You want people to "baptize in Jesus' name." What is His name, Mark?
His name isn't Mark, it is Jesus, who will save his people from their sins, and what I want outside of my sphere of responsibility is irrelevant. That is what the NT church did and what I wrote was an exposition of what the NT says and the NT church did, which was the purpose of the exercise.
_____________________________
God Bless America
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2008 10:05:01 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marksman
It is noticable that there was not one female apostle in the scriptures. They had female assistants and companions, but they were not apostles themselves.
Except for Junia;)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2008 10:40:30 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Well, obviously, Mark, you want to advertise yourself as a teacher, but you are not going to tell us what you believe nor what the Sheets person believes. Don't you understand that this makes you suspect? Why would anyone go to a site to learn something without first knowing the doctrine of the teacher? That is not the way it works. And rather than explaining or telling us, you prefer to be snide.
You want us to baptize your way -- in "Jesus' name." You say you are in the "apostolic movement." Well, I used to be in a modern "apostolic movement," too, and I know enough about them that I would never return.
quote:
ORIGINALLY marksman
I am so glad that we do not serve the same God. Mine is loving and forgiving, and does not deal with me according to my imperfections. He is crazy about me so I have a wonderful father/son relationship with him. Indeed!  Oddly, my G-d did say that if a prophet gave a false declaration, that prophet was not to live.
quote:
ORIGINALLY Covaan_Meshuga
You want people to "baptize in Jesus' name." What is His name, Mark?
quote:
ORIGINALLY marksman
His name isn't Mark, it is Jesus, who will save his people from their sins Real funny, Mark, but no prize.
What Bible ARE you using, Mark? What one did the H Spirit write, as you wrote in the Paid Staff thread, since you don't want to answer me there?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 1:55:31 AM
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stephanos
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Lol...the Junia line...You know, I had problems with explaining that until I actually started learning Greek. Here is a news flash...The ending of a Name in Greek does not in itself signify physical gender. The ending denotes Case, Gender (word Gender), and number (singular or plural). Junia is in the lexical Greek form of the name. Thus it is Nominative Feminine Singular (1st Declension BTW). If it were to be rendered in say the Genitive it would be Junias, or say the Dative Junia(i) with the iota in subscript. The passage in question (Romans 16:7) has it in the greek "Junian", thus it is in the accusitive case.
So first, we can see that technicly the form "Junia" is not in the bible, but rather "Junian". Second, no Greek scholar worth his weight, would ever suggest that gender in the form of the word, signifies physical Gender. Spirit "pneuma" is feminine styled word, but we dont say that the Holy Spirit (always in the Feminine when used in scripture) is female do we? The Gender of the word plays has NO RELATION to gender of the person. And trying to argue such only shows ignorance of the Greek. Simply put we only know the physical gender of names through the context. Case in point BOTH Prisca and Aquila are Feminine names by word structure, that is in their lexical form, they BOTH are Nomnatitve FEMININE Singular. And i am pretty sure one of them WAS a man.
It also should be noted that Paul does NOT directly say that Andronicus or Junia were apostles. The Greek word used here that some translate as among, is "en". Do you know that this one word is used aprox. 2752 times in the New Testament. Only 5 words are used more, ho (he, to) the article, kai (and), the personal pronoun autos (he, she, it), su, sou, ect (the many forms of "you"), and de (but). The word "en" has a wide range of meanings including; in, on, at, near, to, by before, among, with, within, when, ect. So how you translate this word in this context DOES show your personal bias. Because strictly speaking, "with the Apostles" (thus signifying they were NOT apostles, just worked WITH them, and were being praised for their work) is just as textually accurate as saying "within the apostles" (thus signifying they were in their ranks). Since an Apostle is one who was directly called by God for a specific task, as in they SAW Jesus PERSONALLY, I will lean with the tradition that there were 13 Apostles, and no more. Since scripture only records that Jesus Personally called 13 (well 14 if you count Judas Iscariot) MEN.
THe whole "Junia was a female apostle" has so many holes in it, it is like swiss cheese.
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 6:38:24 AM
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Marksman
Posts: 232
Joined: 6/7/2007
From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
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quote:
And rather than explaining or telling us, you prefer to be snide.
I cannot go beyond scripture. "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another." No mention anywhere of "by this shall all men know that you are my disciple by your purity of doctrine". Love unites, doctrine divides. You are my brother or sister because of your faith in Christ, not because you have correct doctrine bearing in mind that doctrine is progressive as we understand more of what God has done for us.
quote:
You want us to baptize your way -- in "Jesus' name." You say you are in the "apostolic movement." Well, I used to be in a modern "apostolic movement," too, and I know enough about them that I would never return.
As I said, what I want is irrelevant. All I have done is state what the scripture says and what the NT church did. If you have a problem with that you will have to sort it out, not me.
I did not say I was in the apostolic movement. I think that you need to know that I don't live my life according to what others think or don't think. My relationship is with my Father, not through other people.
quote:
you want to advertise yourself as a teacher,
Not really as I don't need to. God spoke to me on four different occasions through four different men who never knew me at four different meetings. They all prophesied that I was to teach the word without reference to experience or tradition, so that is what I do. As that was God's very clear leading, I cannot do any other.
quote:
Indeed! Oddly, my G-d did say that if a prophet gave a false declaration, that prophet was not to live
Being a NT christian, I have a God that forgives our mistakes.
quote:
What one did the H Spirit write
The one that most denominations subscribe to, the one that is in the original text. That is why I use the Greek in most of my study.
Thankyou Stephonos for that first class exposition which makes it very clear about the Junias debate and a general understanding of the language of the scriptures.
_____________________________
God Bless America
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 10:18:55 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Lol...the Junia line...You know, I had problems with explaining that until I actually started learning Greek. Here is a news flash...The ending of a Name in Greek does not in itself signify physical gender. The ending denotes Case, Gender (word Gender), and number (singular or plural). Junia is in the lexical Greek form of the name. Thus it is Nominative Feminine Singular (1st Declension BTW). If it were to be rendered in say the Genitive it would be Junias, or say the Dative Junia(i) with the iota in subscript. The passage in question (Romans 16:7) has it in the greek "Junian", thus it is in the accusitive case.
So first, we can see that technicly the form "Junia" is not in the bible, but rather "Junian". Second, no Greek scholar worth his weight, would ever suggest that gender in the form of the word, signifies physical Gender. Spirit "pneuma" is feminine styled word, but we dont say that the Holy Spirit (always in the Feminine when used in scripture) is female do we? The Gender of the word plays has NO RELATION to gender of the person. And trying to argue such only shows ignorance of the Greek. Simply put we only know the physical gender of names through the context. Case in point BOTH Prisca and Aquila are Feminine names by word structure, that is in their lexical form, they BOTH are Nomnatitve FEMININE Singular. And i am pretty sure one of them WAS a man.
It also should be noted that Paul does NOT directly say that Andronicus or Junia were apostles. The Greek word used here that some translate as among, is "en". Do you know that this one word is used aprox. 2752 times in the New Testament. Only 5 words are used more, ho (he, to) the article, kai (and), the personal pronoun autos (he, she, it), su, sou, ect (the many forms of "you"), and de (but). The word "en" has a wide range of meanings including; in, on, at, near, to, by before, among, with, within, when, ect. So how you translate this word in this context DOES show your personal bias. Because strictly speaking, "with the Apostles" (thus signifying they were NOT apostles, just worked WITH them, and were being praised for their work) is just as textually accurate as saying "within the apostles" (thus signifying they were in their ranks). Since an Apostle is one who was directly called by God for a specific task, as in they SAW Jesus PERSONALLY, I will lean with the tradition that there were 13 Apostles, and no more. Since scripture only records that Jesus Personally called 13 (well 14 if you count Judas Iscariot) MEN.
THe whole "Junia was a female apostle" has so many holes in it, it is like swiss cheese.
Except for the fact that the early church fathers consistently wrote of her as female, and John Chrysostom as both female AND apostle.
Edit: In truth, there's insufficient evidence to make a hard claim either way. There is ample evidence of women named Junia, but very little in the way of a masculine Junias. The closest would be Junianas, making Junias a shortened version of that common name although there's no historical record for such a shortening.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 9/29/2008 10:25:08 AM >
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 12:52:35 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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Well, Mark, you have a slick way of scooting around answers, rather than answering, but no problem. I remain curious which Greek Bible you use, because you basically called my friend a liar regarding his Greek Bible. And it is curious that you discount what G-d said previous to Matthew, which continuously puzzles me in all those who do it. And perhaps you would do yourself some good to dig into the subject of baptism a lot deeper.
quote:
ORIGINAL Marksman
God spoke to me on four different occasions through four different men who never knew me at four different meetings. They all prophesied that I was to teach the word without reference to experience or tradition, so that is what I do.
Also, I have learned that in my life, those who would prophesy over people are looking for a following and for personal glory, and of every single person for my first 50 years who thought they were speaking to me from G-d, their prophecies were all false. I learned to specifically not listen to such persons.
Oh, and thank you for this:
quote:
ORIGINAL Marksman
. . . that does not mean that you haven't existed for 30/40 years or however old you are.
Flattering but sweet anyway.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 1:22:40 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Lol...the Junia line...You know, I had problems with explaining that until I actually started learning Greek. Here is a news flash...The ending of a Name in Greek does not in itself signify physical gender. The ending denotes Case, Gender (word Gender), and number (singular or plural). Junia is in the lexical Greek form of the name. Thus it is Nominative Feminine Singular (1st Declension BTW). If it were to be rendered in say the Genitive it would be Junias, or say the Dative Junia(i) with the iota in subscript. The passage in question (Romans 16:7) has it in the greek "Junian", thus it is in the accusitive case.
So first, we can see that technicly the form "Junia" is not in the bible, but rather "Junian". Second, no Greek scholar worth his weight, would ever suggest that gender in the form of the word, signifies physical Gender. Spirit "pneuma" is feminine styled word, but we dont say that the Holy Spirit (always in the Feminine when used in scripture) is female do we? The Gender of the word plays has NO RELATION to gender of the person. And trying to argue such only shows ignorance of the Greek. Simply put we only know the physical gender of names through the context. Case in point BOTH Prisca and Aquila are Feminine names by word structure, that is in their lexical form, they BOTH are Nomnatitve FEMININE Singular. And i am pretty sure one of them WAS a man.
It also should be noted that Paul does NOT directly say that Andronicus or Junia were apostles. The Greek word used here that some translate as among, is "en". Do you know that this one word is used aprox. 2752 times in the New Testament. Only 5 words are used more, ho (he, to) the article, kai (and), the personal pronoun autos (he, she, it), su, sou, ect (the many forms of "you"), and de (but). The word "en" has a wide range of meanings including; in, on, at, near, to, by before, among, with, within, when, ect. So how you translate this word in this context DOES show your personal bias. Because strictly speaking, "with the Apostles" (thus signifying they were NOT apostles, just worked WITH them, and were being praised for their work) is just as textually accurate as saying "within the apostles" (thus signifying they were in their ranks). Since an Apostle is one who was directly called by God for a specific task, as in they SAW Jesus PERSONALLY, I will lean with the tradition that there were 13 Apostles, and no more. Since scripture only records that Jesus Personally called 13 (well 14 if you count Judas Iscariot) MEN.
THe whole "Junia was a female apostle" has so many holes in it, it is like swiss cheese.
Except for the fact that the early church fathers consistently wrote of her as female, and John Chrysostom as both female AND apostle.
Edit: In truth, there's insufficient evidence to make a hard claim either way. There is ample evidence of women named Junia, but very little in the way of a masculine Junias. The closest would be Junianas, making Junias a shortened version of that common name although there's no historical record for such a shortening.
Again, I think you are missing the point. Junia, which is the Nominative Feminine Singular form of the name, is NOT a indication of a true Feminine name. Junias, is FYI the Genitive Feminine Singular form of the very same name. I could take you through the whole 1st Declension chart for Feminine words whose root ends in "ia" if you would like. The form used in Romans is again, Junian. AGAIN the spelling of the word in Greek plays NO ROLE in finding the gender of the individual. And i will again point out that BOTH Prisca and Aquila are feminine names according to parseing (ie the names here are spelt in their lexical form, Nomnative, FEMININE, Singular). Are you going to argue that these are actually two females? No? They why try to argue that Junia is a female simply because how the name is spelt?
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 1:32:29 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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I get the point. I actually agree that the evidence is inconclusive.
Did you get mine that the gender of the person in question is disputable? That the early church fathers were in agreement that it was a she?
(I added the smiley on the end of my first statement to indicate a certain mischief in bringing the topic up. I later qualified my statement to indicate that the current scholarship is inconclusive as to gender. I do think, however, that the early church fathers' witness is significant.)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2008 9:38:10 PM
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Marksman
Posts: 232
Joined: 6/7/2007
From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
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quote:
I remain curious which Greek Bible you use, because you basically called my friend a liar regarding his Greek Bible.
The one that is written in the Greek Language. I don't remember ever mentioning your friend apart from the fact that I have no idea who he is.
quote:
And perhaps you would do yourself some good to dig into the subject of baptism a lot deeper.
I have been studying the subject for 38 years. Is that not good enough.
quote:
Also, I have learned that in my life, those who would prophesy over people are looking for a following and for personal glory, and of every single person for my first 50 years who thought they were speaking to me from G-d, their prophecies were all false. I learned to specifically not listen to such persons.
As I have said more than once, I do not live my relationship with God through other people's experience. I am mature enough to discern what is genuine and what is not, and if I discern it to be genuine and it is not I still win because I learn from my mistakes which I cannot do if I don't make any. As a result, I have no fear of God or his dealings with me.
The one thing that I do want to avoid is calling the work of the Holy Spirit the work of Satan as that is unforgivable.
_____________________________
God Bless America
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2008 10:45:20 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 3609
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
GroupW has hit the nail on the head. Most of what has been written here is deciphered through the context of the 21st century church. The scriptures were not written with that in mind. Without its context the scripture has little value other than a vehicle to find a verse a day to bless me.
You cannot understand scripture unless you understand context.
This much I agree with, but the rest is simply inaccurate.
Paul specifically talks about paying ministry leaders.
Timothy (the Pastor of the Ephesus church) was not from Ephesus, he was brought there by Paul.
etc..., etc..., etc....
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2008 2:57:48 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 944
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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I can see nothing has changed in this thread. I quit posting because the same old arguments kept coming back around. Nothing is new under the sun, I guess.
Carry on...
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2008 4:26:16 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 1130
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
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Has anyone in this thread discussed women ushers? A church I used to attend recently added some women ushers for the first time. Any opinions, or some directions to a post number about this? Thanks!
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2008 4:57:51 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I can see nothing has changed in this thread. I quit posting because the same old arguments kept coming back around. Nothing is new under the sun, I guess.
Carry on...
Wondered how long it would take until you and I agreed on something. 
Regards,
BT
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Men/Women roles in the church - One Stop Thread - 9/30/2008 5:25:40 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2863
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I can see nothing has changed in this thread. I quit posting because the same old arguments kept coming back around. Nothing is new under the sun, I guess.
Carry on...
Wondered how long it would take until you and I agreed on something.
Regards,
BT
Well, since I nearly always agree with everything Shane says, that explains why I rarely agree with you! 
Regards,
KD
Bro and I never agree. You nearly always agree with Bro, which means that you nearly always disagree with me. Bro and I though agree on that last statement, which means that we probably agree there as well.
My head hurts.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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