Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (Full Version)

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solomonsprayer -> Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 6:35:58 PM)

Is it wrong to give a dirty homeless person some money out of charity and then refuse to shake their hand when they offer to thank you? ....I have been in these instances before where I wanted to give money to help someone, but then when they would extend their dirty disgusting looking hand toward me to thank me, I would just say no problem and walk off. ....Not shaking their hand that is....out of fear of germs or disease, etc. ....I didn't come off rude, but just tried to play it off as if I didn't see them offer the shake and pretended to need to get going....



Oldwing -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 6:40:20 PM)

There are products you can carry in your pocket to disinfect your skin. I use them after every visit to the grocery store or anywhere else where the general public uses common equipment, like a shopping cart.

I know this is a response to managing germs and not to the 'idea' of shaking hands with someone who is obviously cleanliness challenged, but if it bothers you enough to ask about whether or not to do so, then know there are solutions. Of course, the graceful way would be to use the disinfectant once out of sight of the homeless person to help them maintain their own personal dignity.

God bless you for your giving nature.



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 9:07:00 PM)

You're so unlikely to catch anything from a hand, wherever it might have been - in fact the only way to possibly do so, unless you had open sores yourself on your hand, would be for you to have put your hand straight in your mouth (which I would imagine/hope would be very unlikely!)

I think we should stuff our own sensibilities. It shouldn't be all about us.


Matthew 25:40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 9:41:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer

but then when they would extend their dirty disgusting looking hand toward me to thank me


You do realize you're describing a human being, right?



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 9:50:36 PM)

I'd shake their hand and just wash mine when I can...or carry sanitizer. But, now that I think about it, dirt isn't always bad, but we probably have the same germs on both our hands. His or hers just probably has more grime. :)



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 9:51:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy
quote:

ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
but then when they would extend their dirty disgusting looking hand toward me to thank me

You do realize you're describing a human being, right?



I'm glad it wasn't just me who was offended.

I was fuming (and almost in tears) when I read the OP.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 10:22:46 PM)

This is why, in the Beginning, Purell was created even before dogs and cats were.

But I will tell you one instance in which someone did this, and knowing the circumstances, I would have done it, too.

Someone walked out of their small business building to see a homeless woman behind the recycle bin going to the bathroom. When confronted, she straightened herself up and came out with her unwashed hand extended for a hand shake. He put his hands behind his back and said no. The lesson, in this case, had to be strong and unapproving of what she had just done in the parking lot, open for all to see and hear, when there was a restroom inside the building and a restroom one block up the street. To be honest, I would have done the same.



solomonsprayer -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/13/2008 10:29:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy
quote:

ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
but then when they would extend their dirty disgusting looking hand toward me to thank me

You do realize you're describing a human being, right?



I'm glad it wasn't just me who was offended.

I was fuming (and almost in tears) when I read the OP.


Yeah, I realize I'm somewhat of a jerk in that situation......I am just not used to these situations and it was a human reaction. I do realize the homeless person is human too. I'm also a germ-a-phobe to some degree.

I think it was just a weird gut reaction where I saw a filthy hand that I wasn't sure where it had been and was not pleased to shake it. I didn't mean it as "you are below me and I despise you." ...But more like "I wish you well. I'm not comfortable shaking your hand, but I hope you'll accept my blessing nonetheless."..... ....Maybe I've got issues. That's why I asked for an opinion. I am even reminded of the fact that Donald Trump whenever he greets people, he never shakes their hand. I'm not sure if he does it with the most wealthy and "important" people as well, but I read that on the street and when meeting fans and what not that he never shakes people's hands, due to oncerns about sanitation. I just hope I don't become like that in the long run. [8|]



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 4:54:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
when there was a restroom inside the building and a restroom one block up the street.

Would she have been allowed to use those? Were they public ones?



SonInMe1 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 5:37:01 AM)

I am sure my hands have been dirtier than any homeless person's.

People are germ freaks.

How many people in your neighborhood have died from cholera and eboli....

?????????????????



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 6:25:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
Yeah, I realize I'm somewhat of a jerk in that situation......I am just not used to these situations and it was a human reaction. I do realize the homeless person is human too. I'm also a germ-a-phobe to some degree.

I think it was just a weird gut reaction where I saw a filthy hand that I wasn't sure where it had been and was not pleased to shake it. I didn't mean it as "you are below me and I despise you." ...But more like "I wish you well. I'm not comfortable shaking your hand, but I hope you'll accept my blessing nonetheless.".


I appreciate that, but that's how it is likely to have come across.

Homeless people are our modern-day lepers. And if Christ didn't hold back from associating with lepers, neither should we.

Try to see it as an act of sacrificial giving to Christ, and it might help you get over it.

By all means find somewhere to wash your own hands afterwards, but don't let your "issues" prevent you from being Christ to those who need Him most.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 7:34:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
when there was a restroom inside the building and a restroom one block up the street.

Would she have been allowed to use those? Were they public ones?

I know this guy well, and he has specifically allowed people to use the building's restroom. I have seen/heard him do it often, and he has spoken of various ones. He said that he told her that if she had only asked rather than breaking the law.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 7:40:56 AM)

Well, I haven't been completely honest. I saw how you seemed to be so put off by not shaking hands, and I'll admit it now -- I didn't want you to think less of me, Manda.

But one time a little offer a year ago, I shook a homeless man's hand after giving him food from my trunk, and had to strongly brace myself from being pulled toward him in a hug. No, no, no, no, no! I have to admit that scared me about shaking hands with any unknown man in such a case or where there aren't lots of people around, so I haven't since.



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 8:13:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
But one time a little offer a year ago, I shook a homeless man's hand after giving him food from my trunk, and had to strongly brace myself from being pulled toward him in a hug. No, no, no, no, no! I have to admit that scared me about shaking hands with any unknown man in such a case or where there aren't lots of people around, so I haven't since.


I know you are unwell, so I don't know how strong you are. But, honestly, it's easy enough to make sure the handshake doesn't develop into anything else. You offer your hand, but keep your arm straight out (ie with your hand as far away from your body as possible) and rigid.

I tend to prepare myself for the possibility of that whenever I shake someone's hand (not just a homeless person!), so I always feel prepared. That's the key. I've worked in a homeless hostel, so the risk of that was part and parcel of every shift I worked there. Only once did a guy surprise me and try to grab me for a kiss (there was no handshake, it was just a grab), and I stepped back quickly, swung my right foot back, in line with his groin, and said "Step back and leave me alone, OR ...." in a very firm voice. He was drunk and often made lechy comments, so this wasn't exactly the same as dealing with someone who was just grateful or wanted some human contact. He said "you would, wouldn't you?" and I said "Yes". He stepped back and never bothered me again.

Btw, if I was giving someone food or hygiene supplies from my car, I'd also take pre-emptive steps to protect myself by suggesting the person sat "over there" while I got them something. I wouldn't want to be there with my back to someone I don't know, just in case.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 8:32:06 AM)

You have experience the rest of us don't have, Manda. I just try to reach out on my own, without the auspices of an entity that trains or supports the homeless. I admit that I am very ignorant of all the possible dangers and concerns in doing this, so I learn by trial and error. This was my first experience of having a stranger try to do this, so I never knew about the "strong arm method" until you wrote it here. I would have to try it out on my husband a few times first, in order to gain confidence.

About giving from the trunk, I thought about that later, after this incident. It had never occurred to me before that there I stood with an open trunk like an open dungeon, with the keys to my car in my hand. If the guy had wanted to, he could have done some damage.

Thank you for your advice. I think we all need people like you, who are more experienced, to help us out with advice and knowledge.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 8:37:05 AM)

Oh, Manda, while I am at it, we have an area in my small city where I must go on occasion. The homeless there, for some reason, are very aggressive. In fact, one was very scary to me, so I pretended I couldn't hear, got to my car quickly, and slammed the door, locking it just in time as he tried to reach me. Even in the car, I felt very unsafe, so I backed out quickly and got away.

I don't even know what to ask you about this, but many people are afraid to go to this area, which, from all appearances, looks like any other place in the city, with stores, restaurants, and a branch of my bank that I use. But do you have any advice for this?



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 8:43:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I know this guy well, and he has specifically allowed people to use the building's restroom. I have seen/heard him do it often, and he has spoken of various ones. He said that he told her that if she had only asked rather than breaking the law.


Maybe she didn't dare ask. I know non-homeless people who'd be too embarrassed to ask, let alone someone who is practically living in a parallel universe.



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 8:49:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
You have experience the rest of us don't have, Manda. I just try to reach out on my own, without the auspices of an entity that trains or supports the homeless.

It's a while since I worked there, and I was only there one day per week, but it was good training, yes. Not that anyone actually trained me, lol, I just watched the other staff, and learned on my feet.
quote:


I admit that I am very ignorant of all the possible dangers and concerns in doing this, so I learn by trial and error. This was my first experience of having a stranger try to do this, so I never knew about the "strong arm method" until you wrote it here. I would have to try it out on my husband a few times first, in order to gain confidence.

That sounds like a good idea!
quote:


About giving from the trunk, I thought about that later, after this incident. It had never occurred to me before that there I stood with an open trunk like an open dungeon, with the keys to my car in my hand. If the guy had wanted to, he could have done some damage.

I always try to remember that many homeless people have psychiatric issues and can be very desperate. The secret is to try and help without leaving yourself vulnerable. Well not too vulnerable anyway. I have taken a few chances that I would totally advise others against taking! It always worked out all right, but when I looked back afterwards, it was very very risky. But I did pray at the time that the Lord would protect me and sharpen my senses/discernment.



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 8:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oh, Manda, while I am at it, we have an area in my small city where I must go on occasion. The homeless there, for some reason, are very aggressive. In fact, one was very scary to me, so I pretended I couldn't hear, got to my car quickly, and slammed the door, locking it just in time as he tried to reach me. Even in the car, I felt very unsafe, so I backed out quickly and got away.

I don't even know what to ask you about this, but many people are afraid to go to this area, which, from all appearances, looks like any other place in the city, with stores, restaurants, and a branch of my bank that I use. But do you have any advice for this?

If I was going somewhere like that, I'd dress down. I'd probably be wearing trousers (pants) or jeans, plain ordinary clothes, preferably dark coloured. In other words, I'd be making sure I didn't look like I had money. I wouldn't carry a handbag (purse), and I'd permanently be looking around me to see who else was there. I'd probably be holding my keys tightly in my hand, but in such a way that I could use them as a weapon if I needed to. I also have a whistle on my key ring, for use in emergency. The sound carries better than a shout, and can be a good deterrent. I'd walk briskly to where I was going, and would be unlikely to stop to talk to anyone. If a homeless person was sat down, I'd be more inclined to stop (you're in less danger from a person sitting down than a person standing up). I'd also be permanently on the lookout for anywhere I could go for help if I needed it. I'd be particularly careful when getting out of my car or getting into it. I wouldn't get out or in if someone else was just passing by.

And I'd pray for protection. I'd pray that I'd "see" any demons but that they wouldn't see me.

But I'd be bold, and my body language would be confident.

In what way was this person scary to you? And in what other ways have homeless people in that area been "aggressive"?



FRO -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 9:33:36 AM)

That homeless person doesn't need your money as much as he needs your love.

Unfortunately, most of us seem to be blessed with money, and not time. I know that if I was treated like this homeless person, I would feel like I was only helping the giver meet his "holy quota" and I certainly wouldn't feel like a beloved child.

I'm not trying to say what you did was wrong - you showed generosity and helped this person in a very tangible way. But there's a better way.

If that man was your brother, would you resist his touch? Would you continue on your business after giving him money? I assure you, his condition is in no way contagious. Well, except for his humility (I haven't been taking my daily supplements, that's for sure).



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 9:39:53 AM)

The particular man who stands out most in my memory there was very tall -- taller than my 6'2" husband. He was horribly disheveled -- more than the usual -- filthy, and his eyes were kind of wild-looking. He came after me, demanding money -- talking way too loudly. He got way into my personal space behind me before I could get into the car. As I slammed the door, I nearly slammed it on him. As I drove away, I seriously did not know if I would be driving over his toes. It was way too tense.

Otherwise, the people seem to be more into demanding money. Commanding money. I know that part of their fear is based upon the fact that it is against the law here to panhandle, and they don't want to be caught, so I think they become desperate.

I do have a policy of not giving anyone money. I will give store gift cards, food, and buy gas, but I don't give money. Some want only money.

You are right about not carrying a purse there. I should have thought of that. But when I go to the bank in that area, I must carry a purse, in order to have all the things I need. And I don't have a whistle. Another good idea, except that whistles don't mean the same thing here that they mean in other areas of the world. Here, whistles in the city are toys, so I am not sure about that. They do sell little canisters that make very loud, obnoxious sounds.



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/14/2008 10:45:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I do have a policy of not giving anyone money. I will give store gift cards, food, and buy gas, but I don't give money. Some want only money.

I don't give money either. And if asked for money I say firmly in a loud voice "Sorry I don't give money" and walk away.
quote:


You are right about not carrying a purse there. I should have thought of that. But when I go to the bank in that area, I must carry a purse, in order to have all the things I need.

In that case I'd advise having a purse that was as small as possible and wearing it under your coat so it doesn't show.
quote:


And I don't have a whistle. Another good idea, except that whistles don't mean the same thing here that they mean in other areas of the world. Here, whistles in the city are toys, so I am not sure about that. They do sell little canisters that make very loud, obnoxious sounds.

A sharp piercing whistle can wrongfoot someone, can be very uncomfortable to the ears. Their shock can give you a few seconds at least to make your getaway or get help.



earthless -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/15/2008 8:55:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer

their dirty disgusting looking hand toward me ....I didn't come off rude


Yes, yes you did. But more importantly than the worry of appearance of coming off you rude. Regardless if no one else saw you or if the homeless person noticed - you were indeed rude.

If you're going to give some aid to someone I would hope it is because of a genuine love and concern for the individual. But if we're worried about said individual's "dirty" hand.. then perhaps our giving is not so sincere to begin with or as we would like to think it is.

I preached an entire series a few years ago entitled, "why do we do the things we do?" Your post highly reminded me of that and has convicted me as well. God bless.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/15/2008 9:10:29 AM)

Manda, I tried out the stiff-armed handshake on my husband this morning. Thank you for the idea! We both could see that unless the person was extremely aggressive, that would work, but it would also work because they would be surprised by the stiff arm if they tried to approach. It is a show of personal power that often backs people off, unless they are so intent on doing harm that nothing would stop them anyway.

I really appreciate all your advice, all of which I would have only learned by trial and error. Who needs error in this area.



manda59 -> RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? (9/15/2008 10:32:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Manda, I tried out the stiff-armed handshake on my husband this morning. Thank you for the idea! We both could see that unless the person was extremely aggressive, that would work, but it would also work because they would be surprised by the stiff arm if they tried to approach. It is a show of personal power that often backs people off, unless they are so intent on doing harm that nothing would stop them anyway.



I am glad it worked for you!

You can always work out some other moves to use if the person does appear intent on doing harm - such as stamping on his foot or kicking him in the shin, sharply twisting his wrist that you're holding, or grabbing the hair above his ears with your other hand! (your poor husband!!! lol)



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