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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 11:30:47 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Maggie, I don't do well with people I perceive as being users. Not at all. I grow impatient very quickly. Up to this thread, I have ignored things. Thought them but just kept them to myself. It didn't matter. But when it happened here, post #89 got on my last nerve.
It's just that I have a tendency to be taken in by people. I easily like most people. And when I don't like them, I go to them and do all I can to learn who they are, because that has always shown me reason to like them anyway. But when I feel used, or see friends being used, it sends me off into another direction.
I should add that my suggestion that Eks get a job was given to be helpful; he really needs to learn to work with his hands. He will never reach any potential without that.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 12:03:51 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5128
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quote:
I should add that my suggestion that Eks get a job was given to be helpful
Yes, I saw your compassion in that, Abiyah.
quote:
I am not sure everyone needs to be treated with compassion and respect; some people need a swift kick in the hind parts and to be told in no uncertain terms that they need to be more concerned about being rich in the things of God then they are in the things of man.
That is true, but that needs to be done out of relationship. We earn the right to do that as we invest ourselves in that person's life. Otherwise, we are simply clanging gongs, creating an irritating noise in the person's ear. For instance, if I harangue you about lacking compassion, are you likely to become more compassionate? Not likely. You'll begin to avoid me, skip reading my posts, etc. Or you might become angry and defensive. I have no right to speak into your life unless I've taken the time to get to know you.
_____________________________
Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 12:11:41 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
That is true, but that needs to be done out of relationship. We earn the right to do that as we invest ourselves in that person's life. Otherwise, we are simply clanging gongs, creating an irritating noise in the person's ear. For instance, if I harangue you about lacking compassion, are you likely to become more compassionate? Not likely. You'll begin to avoid me, skip reading my posts, etc. Or you might become angry and defensive. I have no right to speak into your life unless I've taken the time to get to know you.
I actually generally agree with that, except for the fact that we are speaking with relative anonymity on an internet forum; it is unlikely anyone here will form the necessary relationships in which we can invest that sort of intimacy that you are talking about.
And to be quite frank, I don't think we even need to know someone's financial condition in the course of discussing a topic; the wisdom of someone's words aren't dependent on the size of their bank account - and that is why I would never make such a declaration, because Scripture actually commands us to be impartial in regards to someone's wealth or lack thereof.
However, certain persons seem to think that it is important to inject such information as part of the discussion, and as much as they do they invite the commentary of others with regard to those statements.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 12:17:16 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3123
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IMO, anyone who treats a homeless person like a dog by throwing money on the ground so he/she has to stoop to pick it up (to avoid having to touch them), deserves the same amount of compassion as he has given the homeless.
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 12:31:40 PM
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zamdad
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JHuds right on (like usual). While we all need to treat each other with respect. While respect is something that has to be earned in a relationship, these foru,s do not allow for the type of relationship we humans are designed for. Many of us have this type of respect for one another as we've been here a long time and shared our thoughts over a long period of time. When someone like Eks comes in and begins saying the things he has about how he treats those he seems to view as beneath him, he needs to be told how he is being percieved. Otherwise, we never get to know him, we never get the chance to invite change in him or others.
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“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 12:57:29 PM
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ekserekseez
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You're quite welcome. I'm used to liberals threatening to kick me in the hindquarters, or telling me what I need to do for my own good, or other things that fit into their social-engineering, socialist, nanny-state ideology, that these days masquerades as Republican as often as it does Democrat.
Later, folks! There's politicking to worry about.
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 1:13:14 PM
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magdaleine
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quote:
...we are speaking with relative anonymity on an internet forum; it is unlikely anyone here will form the necessary relationships in which we can invest that sort of intimacy that you are talking about.
Exactly. That is why we need to be careful to not bash our ideas and beliefs over the heads of people here that we don't know well and to treat all with respect and compassion.
_____________________________
Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 2:23:37 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
You're quite welcome. I'm used to liberals threatening to kick me in the hindquarters, or telling me what I need to do for my own good, or other things that fit into their social-engineering, socialist, nanny-state ideology, that these days masquerades as Republican as often as it does Democrat.
I suppose Jesus was by this estimation a socialist nanny-stater for telling the rich young man to sell everything and follow him. Ooooh, that social-engineering meddler...
Keep making excuses.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 3:45:18 PM
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Odeliya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Having been pulled into a hug by men who shouldn't have, who made me uncomfortable by it, believe me, I will use the strong-arm hand shake more than in the instances I have asked about here. Men who think they can take advantage of women because they are women need to be taught a lesson, and I am just the one to be the teacher, Son. If that offends anyone, that is not my problem.
 Oh, yeah. When, like before service or smth?
Abiyah, presuming thats your picture you r a pretty woman and can surely expect those hug enthusiasts to annoy you often. Best remedy, listen to me, this is what you do : smile and hug him gladly, simultaneously bringing your knee up in a quick and powerful motion until it hits what it suppose to.
I can’t tell you precisely about the mechanism, you know, Christian forum, but works like a charm! Practice on a volleyball, hitting it with your knee, if your kids got one, to acquire the skill. Guaranteed that the lovers of unsolicited hugs will become perpetually cured from their exiting hobby.
Watch the faces it should retain the expression of suffering saint all thru the sat. service. Rabbitzin' husband will be pleased to see such increase in religiosity, may God bless him and your respected cogregation richly!
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 4:00:19 PM
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Odeliya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DreadPirateRandy
Have you ever thought what it would be like shaking Jesus' hand? He touched the sick, the demon-possessed, the crippled, and all of which society has come to view as dirty or disgusting.
We are called to be separate from this thinking. If Jesus did it, then why is shaking someone's hand, or simply touching them, too good for us?
Good point. I never mind . Lord knows , i must be immune - i shook hands once with Mayor Daley ( of Chicago),at some political event/fundraiser our school participated in, and that guy is the filthiest, dirtiest pig one can imagine. I am still alive, didnt even get sick 
Also agree that all the posters that mentioned homeless people needing not only hugs, food and some money(temporary refief) but professional help. Participating in such volunteer organizations often reaches more goals then just giving money ..
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 4:16:06 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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quote:
Another time some people invited my family over after Sunday service. The adults were served a real nice meal in the dining room. The children were told to grab what was on the kitchen table and go play.
How rude! Why on earth would someone invite the pastors family to dinner and not feed the children something decent too?
One of the churches I went to had a pastor that told me of a time when he started at a new church. They had a new baby so they did a food drive for the pastor to help out with the move and new baby. He said 99% of the food was either freezer burned or moldy. I would be mortified if something I gave my pastor was bad. I would hate to think how those people would have treated a homeless man if they treated their own pastor like that.
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/22/2008 9:44:18 PM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
quote:
Another time some people invited my family over after Sunday service. The adults were served a real nice meal in the dining room. The children were told to grab what was on the kitchen table and go play.
How rude! Why on earth would someone invite the pastors family to dinner and not feed the children something decent too?
One of the churches I went to had a pastor that told me of a time when he started at a new church. They had a new baby so they did a food drive for the pastor to help out with the move and new baby. He said 99% of the food was either freezer burned or moldy. I would be mortified if something I gave my pastor was bad. I would hate to think how those people would have treated a homeless man if they treated their own pastor like that.
I guess I come at this from a different perspective. We don't know who gave the gifts. Perhaps it truly was the best they had. Just something to think about.
Also, I can't help but wonder why this pastor told you this.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 12:59:38 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Bzirk, you have such a kind heart. But having lived through a little of that as a PK, I don't understand it either. There are some times when it is likely best that one doesn't give, if what you have to give causes the receiver embarrassment or worse.
There was one place where the church asked my father to come, telling him that they would support us through their giving, but after we got there, we learned that the church had decided that it wanted to keep its old pastor after all. Father had a very difficult time finding work in the little community, but he had made a commitment and he stuck to it, until they let him off the hook. During that time, the money he was supposed to receive never came, but they did give us food that had to be thrown out when we opened it and found creatures living in it. All of it had to go.
(Sorry! I left out a word, so it didn't make sense.)
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 9/23/2008 1:22:46 AM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 1:18:35 AM
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magdaleine
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That's awful! There's a reason why God had his people give the priests and Levites the best--it was a way to honour him. I believe we forget that to our peril.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 7:43:14 AM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Bzirk, you have such a kind heart. But having lived through a little of that as a PK, I don't understand it either. There are some times when it is likely best that one doesn't give, if what you have to give causes the receiver embarrassment or worse.
There was one place where the church asked my father to come, telling him that they would support us through their giving, but after we got there, we learned that the church had decided that it wanted to keep its old pastor after all. Father had a very difficult time finding work in the little community, but he had made a commitment and he stuck to it, until they let him off the hook. During that time, the money he was supposed to receive never came, but they did give us food that had to be thrown out when we opened it and found creatures living in it. All of it had to go.
(Sorry! I left out a word, so it didn't make sense.)
I hear you and I've experienced some things as a pastor's wife where I've had to say, "Lord, I trust you, and I receive things in the spirit they're given." So I just would not get offended at what someone gives me unless it became obvious they were trying to abuse me or my kids.
But the problem with a pastor saying this to someone is that on its face it is divisive and just seems to serve no good purpose for this pastor to have said this. Anyway, I'm hard pressed to think of what good purpose it would serve for a pastor to relate this to someone.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 9:04:05 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3427
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I understand being sheltered.
I was raised on a dairy farm. Since the age of six I have worked. Farm work is not clean. Our house was built in 1803. ( The barn was built in 1802, just the way they did things back then..lol ) It was lathe and plaster which after all those years was falling down.
We burned wood..something not clean either.
We ate food we grew, for the most part. Potatoes in the cellar. Canned foods. Home made breads.
My parents would throw a big party in the summer. My mom's sister had moved to California and her boyfriend was a lawyer. Of course, people would get alcohol friendliness andf they would want to help out or at elast see whatw as in the barn.
Well, here is this SanFransico lawyer, in his expenisve suit and shoes...walking through a free stall barn ( cows roam free in it, no stanchions, no gutters so manure is everywhere ) and LOVING it.
My cousin would come and live with us in the summer. He lived in Buffalo NY. His favorite thing to do was to fill the manure spreader and go and spread it. Well, you learn one important thing when you do that...wind direction. He still loved it.
When he died, my mom spread manure on his grave. Tim would have loved that.
See, I was sheltered from the life most of you have led. I can tell ya, not that much offends me when it comes to dirt. I worked in farming and worked in stone quarry. I didn't have the luxury to clean myself up after going to the bathroom ( there ain't no john or water on the back of a tractor ) and I probably could go on and on how we lived our lives that would just gross a few of you out.
We were out with Dad cutting trees for wood. He was cutting some brush with the chainsaw and it bounded back at him, caught him just above the knee. He was angry...angry he had to stop what he was doing and go to the house to clean up the wound....which he did, and went back to work.
What did he use for an antiseptic? Blue coat....a spray antibiotic we used on the cows.
Want nice smooth hands? Hard as we worked we seldom had callouses because we used udder balm on the cows. Udder balm is great for chapped hands.
Shake a homeless man's hands? I bet some homeless people wouldn't have shaken my hands.
Life is diverse. People live in many differing ways.
I guess when God made the tithe He had a good idea when He said to give the first fruits ( Malachi 3:10 says the reason for the tithe [ which was the best food and food stuffs from each ] was so there would be food in His house...in other words to feed the Levites, the priesthood.
Maybe what was given to the pastors in this thread was the first fruits, I don't know. I know as a kid Kraft Mac and Cheese and fish sticks were considered treats because all we ate was roast beef, hamburger, potatoes and home made things. " Store bought" things were great.
All of this may seem a little off topic...what does it have to do with shaking a homless person's hand? Its just...as some of us cringe at shaking a homeless person's hands....some of us were raised in places where dirt was just a normal part of life.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 10:04:11 AM
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agapetos
Posts: 5401
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From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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quote:
But the problem with a pastor saying this to someone is that on its face it is divisive and just seems to serve no good purpose for this pastor to have said this. Anyway, I'm hard pressed to think of what good purpose it would serve for a pastor to relate this to someone. I have to admit, I agree.
A church I used to go to has made the pastor cry at times from him being giving something... something to do with showing him how much he's appreciated... often golf-related (he's fanatic) or motor racing or some such thing... doesn't happen very regularly or very often, but he's always overcome by it. He was sick after a serious op a couple of years back and he and his family were very looked after.
_____________________________
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not using them in fruit salads!
My blog
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 10:17:11 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
Didja grow up in Iowa by any chance?
Northern New York about 8 miles south of Watertown and 60 miles north of Syracuse.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 11:00:01 AM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Son,
I didn't grow up in the country, but I did live in a huge Section 8 housing complex in the city for about five years (not because we qualified but because my dad was hired to clean it up). It was pretty seedy. The 'f' word and some other wonderful things  were carved all over the place and right next to our front door as well. It took about a year to clean this up. But what was worse were the prostitutes and drug dealers and sadly, their kids. Not to mention that this place was infested with roaches. All of this broke my heart and my parents' hearts as well. So our apartment became the safe haven, and thereby I was never allowed to think that only lily white well off people could cross our threshold much less shake our hands.
My dad also "busted heads" about every weekend for a couple of years to get rid of the criminals. Kick in the head though is that several of those same people he put in jail came to his funeral almost 30 years later because my dad actually cared about them. One guy had been a horrible alcoholic, and my dad told him when he put him in jail for about the third time, "Joe, you need to quit gettin' drunk and beatin' your wife, and you need to get your [backside] right with the Lord." Well, he did take that advice and he's a pretty strong Christian today and his wife and kids as well. I don't believe my dad would have been as effective if he had not been willing to talk to these people and yes, shake their hands at times.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/23/2008 1:12:01 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I was way off (map wise).
I grew up in a small town (920 population~not counting dogs and cats) and spent many summers at two different uncles farms in Iowa.
I loved it; hard work, good food.
"...some of us were raised in places where dirt was just a normal part of life."
I grew up in Iowa as well; did you ever have the pleasure of detasseling?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/24/2008 12:37:55 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3585
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Having been pulled into a hug by men who shouldn't have, who made me uncomfortable by it, believe me, I will use the strong-arm hand shake more than in the instances I have asked about here. Men who think they can take advantage of women because they are women need to be taught a lesson, and I am just the one to be the teacher, Son. If that offends anyone, that is not my problem.
Oh, yeah. When, like before service or smth?
Abiyah, presuming thats your picture you r a pretty woman and can surely expect those hug enthusiasts to annoy you often. Best remedy, listen to me, this is what you do : smile and hug him gladly, simultaneously bringing your knee up in a quick and powerful motion until it hits what it suppose to.
I can’t tell you precisely about the mechanism, you know, Christian forum, but works like a charm! Practice on a volleyball, hitting it with your knee, if your kids got one, to acquire the skill. Guaranteed that the lovers of unsolicited hugs will become perpetually cured from their exiting hobby.
Watch the faces it should retain the expression of suffering saint all thru the sat. service. Rabbitzin' husband will be pleased to see such increase in religiosity, may God bless him and your respected cogregation richly!
Odeliya,
Please forgive me for not responding to this post right away. To say I was stunned would be to put it lightly. Thank you so much for such a sweet compliment.
There were a few times when I could have used your advice. I did punch one boss in the stomach, I presumed, for daily, unprovoked, unwanted sexual harassment. I lost that job.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Not Shaking A Dirty Homeless Person's Hand? - 9/24/2008 12:39:44 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3585
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I grew up in Iowa as well; did you ever have the pleasure of detasseling?
Oh, how corny . . . .
She runs quickly
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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