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drussell52 -> generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/10/2008 10:51:26 PM)

Hello, got a hot one for your comment: Recently a friend in conversation observed to me, your agenda and your pastor's agenda may be 2 very different things. Pondering this truism, at your place of worship, do you think your pastor, elder, deacon, priest, or leader, has an agenda? Even beyond preaching the Savior and Him crucified? How do they feel out a culture in a congregation and decide whom to "befriend"?
Drussell



rcjames -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/11/2008 8:39:16 AM)

The agenda of the Pastor should be to grow the congregation spiritually until they are at the stature of Christ.

As for as befriending, I am a little confused about that question. but I will try;

I love my whole congregations and show no favortism in the area of friendlyness, assosiations, etc. Now as with all people I tend to spend more time outside of Church related things with folks who have similiar interest as I do. Hunting, fishing, shooting, sports, discussing politics etc., and many of those folks are not from my congregation.

Thanks
RC



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (9/11/2008 8:54:50 AM)

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drussell52 -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/11/2008 4:39:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: emerging

Drussell,
Like rc, I am a bit confused by the question. Rc is right in stating what the ultimate agenda is to be for all teachers/pastors. If your question is asking whether pastors have a vision or a mission (I like that better than "agenda", unless you have a reason for that word), yes, I think they do or should. I feel strongly that God has given me a vision for the church I am pastor of and part of my job is finding ways to articulate that vision and lead in such a way as to empower others to be part of it. Somehow, though, I sense that this is not what you are asking.

peace.

Emerging, this is a hard question to articulate without going in to specifics. Let me try though to give you a clearer picture. A pastor comes to a congregation that is new to them. He has been there for ... months, and during that time has gotten to know the congregation to some extent, its personality if you will, the powerful and the ordinary, i.e. church government and congregation. He comes out of a system where he has been schooled and has interests of his own, kind of like the President of our country wanting to leave a legacy when leaving office. Some in the congregation, be they in the government or just members, have their own callings. They may be compatible with what the pastor has in mind, they may not be compatible so if not compatible, each fulfills their calling, agenda, passion, whatever one names it in respect for the other but separate from the other. While the pastor has his passions, because of being human is he drawn to others who share his passions and become friends to them, or is he trained in part to be all things to all people and when his shift is done, he can hunt, fish, play trivial pursuit or whatever, with whom he chooses be they in his church or outside it. If you think we should discuss this off form, please PM me. My gut reaction is pastors are like the captain on the ship, they are trained to navigate the vessel, what to do in a crises, overt a crises, and seldom don't go beyond that training. Especially the denominational types. Hope that helps some..



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (9/11/2008 5:58:40 PM)

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christsstar -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/11/2008 6:07:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drussell52

Hello, got a hot one for your comment: Recently a friend in conversation observed to me, your agenda and your pastor's agenda may be 2 very different things. Pondering this truism, at your place of worship, do you think your pastor, elder, deacon, priest, or leader, has an agenda? Even beyond preaching the Savior and Him crucified? How do they feel out a culture in a congregation and decide whom to "befriend"?
Drussell


I think I know what you mean, but stop me if I'm totally off-base.

At a church I recently attended, the pastor and youth-pastor both had a heart for a project in Africa. While I was there, that was his agenda. Everything he did was about Africa. Every sermon, every special event, everything was geared toward this project in Africa. Rather than some of the money, attention, etc on Africa, everything that wasn't crucial was about Africa. It got to the point that every sermon was a guilt trip about not going to Africa to see the kids there.

Many of the people I spoke with wanted to focus locally and get some local youth going to church, and do local outreach. Their agenda was on local stuff.

So yeah, his agenda was different from mine. It was the heart of about half the church, I think. The other half wasn't there. It was agonizing being in the church in that time period.



drussell52 -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/11/2008 6:32:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: christsstar

quote:

ORIGINAL: drussell52

Hello, got a hot one for your comment: Recently a friend in conversation observed to me, your agenda and your pastor's agenda may be 2 very different things. Pondering this truism, at your place of worship, do you think your pastor, elder, deacon, priest, or leader, has an agenda? Even beyond preaching the Savior and Him crucified? How do they feel out a culture in a congregation and decide whom to "befriend"?
Drussell


I think I know what you mean, but stop me if I'm totally off-base.

At a church I recently attended, the pastor and youth-pastor both had a heart for a project in Africa. While I was there, that was his agenda. Everything he did was about Africa. Every sermon, every special event, everything was geared toward this project in Africa. Rather than some of the money, attention, etc on Africa, everything that wasn't crucial was about Africa. It got to the point that every sermon was a guilt trip about not going to Africa to see the kids there.

Many of the people I spoke with wanted to focus locally and get some local youth going to church, and do local outreach. Their agenda was on local stuff.

So yeah, his agenda was different from mine. It was the heart of about half the church, I think. The other half wasn't there. It was agonizing being in the church in that time period.

Christine, bingo, you nailed my direction.. Emerging, our pastor has taken much the same as you, but can tell that his theology and mine are different, and indirectly get kind of lambasted from the sermon time. I was told to market my interests outside the church and am doing so. He is marketing his inside. Without going in to details, Christine's descriptive fits the bill nicely. It seems "political" to love the people and then pronounce your vision on them at the expense of diminishing someone else's vision for a particular ministry. I don't trust the denominational church much anymore it in many cases to be on the virge of self destruction. That though is off topic.. Thanks..



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (9/11/2008 6:58:44 PM)

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christsstar -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/12/2008 10:36:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: emerging

quote:

It seems "political" to love the people and then pronounce your vision on them at the expense of diminishing someone else's vision for a particular ministry.


I agree. Pastors are to "equip the saints." For what? For the work of ministry. If someone in my church has a vision for a ministry that they feel God calling them in to I see it as my job to make sure I equip them to do that and throw all my support and prayer behind it. It may be a different vision than what I have, but that is good. THere are many parts of the body - variety is good.

peace.


Variety is VERY good. That's one thing that makes a denomination nice. Different congregations in the denomination can have different mission fields. And within one congregation there can be a variety of ministries. What I struggle with is a pastor who has tunnel vision and puts all other ministries on hold for his one special project.

The best churches I've attended had a variety of ministries that were all independent of each other, but still answered to the church leadership team (whatever style the church has, be it elders and deacons or bishops, etc.). The smallest church I attended was a plant. We started with 30 members ... the planting team from the Mother-church. It grew by leaps and bounds in the 2 years I attended and it had a variety of fluorishing ministries. The women had their ministry, and their own outreach activities from time to time. The men had their prayer-group and their own outreach. Then we had an actual outreach group that specifically worked on big outreach events and getting people to church for the "BIG" Sundays (Easter, Christmas, Etc).

If it can be done with a small church, it can be done with a big one. The church with the Africa focus was a significantly larger church that has been around for many decades. 50 years if I remember correctly.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/16/2008 5:52:00 PM)

My Pastor's 'agenda' is to live with his people and to feed his flock. I love my Pastor.



Consecrated2God -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/16/2008 6:34:53 PM)

I prefer the word "vision" as well. [;)]

I think most pastors do have a direction, goals, a vision, a mission, or whatever. I think it's a good thing to be thinking ahead, wanting to take the church to the next level. As for only associating with people who support that, I don't think it's right, but I can understand how it happens. I can at least understand why pastors might have a stronger relationship with someone who shares their heart.

We had a pastor who was passionate about Africa too, once, so I can sympathize with Christine about the pastor who had tunnel vision. I do think that pastors need to understand their particular calling for their church, rather than just dabble in everything, but it is important for them to not be so tied to their particular favorite cause that they overlook everything else.



wshepherd -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/17/2008 7:12:15 PM)

My pastor spent his first year helping our CHURCH develop its Missions, Vision and Values statements. He did NOT impose his agenda on us, but helped us to articulate what we saw as our calling. Once that was done, then he was excited to start leading and teaching and equipping us to go in that direction. It was never about his agenda, it was all about what God had been speaking to us as a people, and it has worked very well.

Other churches in our city have sought his help in developing their own Missions, Vision and Values statements as well.



LBolt -> RE: generally do pastors have an agenda? (9/18/2008 7:56:41 AM)

Druss, I think I understand where you are specifically coming and yours may be a different kind of case, IMO. When it comes to doctrine, every pastor or teacher will teach what he or she believes to be true because to not do so would be to spread a lie.

We all have lens and paradigms from which we study the Bible from. It's what causes us to see it the way we do. The reason you are "lambasted" from the pulpit is because you are presenting a viewpoint that is contrary to what that particular pastor has and you may be seen as "off" to him or pose a threat to divide the church. So the doctrine you expose will be contradicted from the pulpit in order to keep others from "falling into error."

He actually doing what any good pastor is suppose to do. Trying to keep the flock of God from going astray. Now the problem I see is this, why can't he just simply confront you in love about what you are studying and/or teaching, if you don't see eye to eye, part ways peacefully. Instead, what you are saying and what you've stated in previous threads on this, is that he seems interested and on-board with you but come sermon time, he's purposely slamming what you are studying.

That's why I see no other alternative but to peacefully part ways. As far as the vision of a pastor or leader, it is suppose to mature the flock in the doctrine of Messiah. All contained in Ephesians 4:11-16.
If we see the way Christ did it...He only had 12 disciples (close) and He duplicated Himself in them, released them to do what He taught and showed them. That's discipleship!!! What I see today for the most part, is doing things to attract new converts so they can come to church, pay tithes and work in an auxiallary.

Enough of my soapbox...I know this hurts Druss but it maybe best to move on, go thru the healing process and embrace what's new on the horizon. You may cross paths again and the second time around things may be different.

If that is the case, he is sending out "mixed" signals to you.



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