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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 9:11:19 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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so you have "two comments" that they admit are not based on their "theology" that was spoken what ----some 4 years ago.
Now do you want to examine the "actual doctrine" of Obama's faith? Palin's faith?
Do you want to go to their "faith" or what their preachers may say off the cuff?
I say let's look at their "core doctrines" not some off the cuff comment that they admit does not does not line up with what they preach and teach the other "thousand" times they spoke?
Remember Palin's pastor admits it not inline with his theology.....Obama's pastor STANDS by what he preaches becuase it "IS" in line with their theology.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 9:13:52 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
"I'm not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation.”
"I hate criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell.”
That does't sound like any Scripture I ever heard
And the pastor who spoke those words agrees with you 100%.
Now let's look at what Wright teaches and STANDS BY as SCRIPTURAL....
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 9:18:25 AM
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P31W
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Does anyone know if any Church Palin regularly attended gave it's highest award to Lewis Farrakhan as Obama's Church did WHILE he was a member, taking his children and wife with him?
Do any of you know HOW Obama's faith would allow someone like Farrakhan to be held in such high esteem?
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 9:23:14 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5585
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Anything reported about the church she belongs to?
Wasilla Bible Church
http://wasillabible.org/
I have listened to a few of the two years of sermons available on the site (Both MP3 and Worddoc.). They seem mainstream Full Gospel teachings on Jesus.
Maybe the liberal pagans will listen hoping to find something to attack Palin about and and and mayby, just maybe find Jesus.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 9:35:13 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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here is their statement of faith.
Statement of Faith
1. We believe in the Bible as the only inspired inerrant Word of God authoritative for faith and practice.
2 Tim 3:16,17; Heb 6:12; 2 Pet 1:19,20
2. We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; Who is the creator and sustainer of all things and worthy of our worship and praise.
Mt 28:19; Gen 1:1,2; Jn 1:1-3; Col 1:15-17; Heb 1:1-3
3. We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death for our sins by His shed blood on the cross, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal visible return in power and glory.
Jn 1:1-18; Lk 1:26-35; Rom 3:24,25; 1 Pet 2:24; Jn 11:1-45; 14:1-3; Acts 1:11; Heb 6:14,15; 7:26; 9:11-14; Rev 19:11-16
4. We believe that based upon Christ's death for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential. We believe that all people are lost and without God in their natural state; but by the grace of God those who exercise genuine faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved - justified, baptized into his death and born again, from above, by the Holy Spirit.
Jn 1:12,13; 3:1-21; Rom 3:23,24; Eph 2:8,9; 1 Pet 1:23
5. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit. By His indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life, and is spiritually gifted for ministry to others.
Acts 2:1-4; 17-21 (cf.Joel 2:28-30); 1 Cor 6:19,20;12:7
6. We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life to be forever with God, and they that remain lost unto the resurrection of judgment and damnation.
Mt 25:31-46; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 2 Thess 1:4-10; Rev 20:11-15; Jn 3:17-19
7. We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ, having been baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. We believe in the responsibility of all believers to love and minister to one another.
1 Cor 12:13; Jn 13:1-17; 17:20-26; Eph 1:13-18; 1 Jn 4:7-11,20-21
8. We believe in our responsibility to be disciples of Christ, to love all people and to fulfill the Commission of Christ to go and make disciples of all nations by bearing witness of Christ through life and word in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Lk 9:23-26; Mt 22:36-40; 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; Rom 1:16
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 10:16:36 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
Hi John,
Sorry - just had to watch Rodgers in his public debut with the Pack beat the Vikings - wooohooo!!!Yeeeeeehah! Sorry (and sorry, Jack ;)...
Awwww Liza...!
Throwing up Obama's false theology Church will NOT cover what Sarah's Pastorsaid.
WEll Lord you can't hold me accountable because such and such did worse!
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 10:31:53 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
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quote:
Throwing up Obama's false theology Church will NOT cover what Sarah's Pastorsaid
You are correct. Sarah's pastor admitted he was wrong to say what he did.
Obama's spiritural mentor and pastor STAND FIRM on his false theology....
Palin's pastor repented Obama's does not and is arrogant about it.
Obama allowed his children to be baptised under a false doctrine.
Palin's children are in a chruch that teaches 'sound theology".
She is a better "parent". 
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 7:29:31 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Hi John,
Sorry - just had to watch Rodgers in his public debut with the Pack beat the Vikings - wooohooo!!!Yeeeeeehah! Sorry (and sorry, Jack ;)...
Awwww Liza...!
Throwing up Obama's false theology Church will NOT cover what Sarah's Pastorsaid.
WEll Lord you can't hold me accountable because such and such did worse!
Hi Tracydolls,
Well, my point is that many question Obama due to the church he attends. If this is important, then the church Palin attended should be questioned as well. I think the two comments bear a bit of concern, and that is my humble opinion.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 7:47:00 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
so you have "two comments" that they admit are not based on their "theology" that was spoken what ----some 4 years ago.
Now do you want to examine the "actual doctrine" of Obama's faith? Palin's faith?
Do you want to go to their "faith" or what their preachers may say off the cuff?
I say let's look at their "core doctrines" not some off the cuff comment that they admit does not does not line up with what they preach and teach the other "thousand" times they spoke?
Remember Palin's pastor admits it not inline with his theology.....Obama's pastor STANDS by what he preaches becuase it "IS" in line with their theology.
I'm not really sure of the date of them.
I am not talking about Obama's faith - that was done, ad nauseam, about a month ago, on this forum.
I apologize if I made you mad in any way.
However, I stand by my concerns. Long before Palin became a household name, I expressed my disagreement with those that think that the Iraq war is a holy war (ie, injecting any sort of message that we are doing a 'task of God' in Iraq) right on these forums (before it was switched over). And I also have voiced my disagreement with people judging the way you vote - which can be seen in threads in the Election 2008.
My concern with her statements, her pastors statements are beliefs that I expressed long ago, before all of the hoopla.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:17:57 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1226
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The concern that I personaly had posting in this tread was about "defend" the Assembleis of God as a body, denomination. It may be small here in the USA but is the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world. They have their own national conventions and etc many AG outside USA or missionaries AG church inside US an be more traditional than US sister churches.
Still because neo-pentecostal doctrines etc some churches goes ways of heresies. Now, sorry but IF Mrs Palin's church was one of them, is not because of politics I would not point out.
Any questions regarding AG doctrines and etc go to General Council page: http://ag.org/top/#
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:35:51 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
You're the one that brough Rev Wright back into this, John.
Actually someone else did and I responded... Check your facts....
quote:
If people believe that Obama's past church attendence is of importance, then I'm going to look at the same of the other candidate (when they bring it up).
His past church attendance wasn't that far in the past and when push came to shove he dumped his church of twenty years like it was nothing... Regardless... His actions in regards to abortion and the homosexual agenda are enough that whatever church he attends it really doesn't matter. Though hopefully whatever church he does choose to sit in will not recognize same sex unions like his last one... That's just filthy...
quote:
From CNN:
"....Pastor Ed Kalnin, the senior pastor of Palin's former Pentecostal church, has also come under fire for his comments. In 2004, he told church members if they voted for John Kerry for president, they wouldn't get into heaven. He told them, "I question your salvation."
She hasn't been a member since 2002....
quote:
Anyway, I find it troubling that a person meant to be a spiritual guide would even joke about voting (if the pastor was really joking). I have never been to a church that even discusses how one should vote. The comment about voting for John Kerry and not getting to Heaven - is another comment where the pastor is the last word on your salvation, and that is not right, IMHO.
I don't see how a church can ignore how a person votes... Other than something about tax status. What a person supports (and a vote isn't some benign action outside the jurisdiction of God) matters in regards to their spiritual well being... A pastor isn't simply a person who preaches and smiles a lot, they are to shepard the flock so in my opinion silence on voting isn't something to trumpet and the church and it's members should discus it... The idea that voting or whatever else is something outside the umbrella of the body of Christ only plays in to the secular concept compartmentalization. Can't serve two masters...
All that said I do endorse the idea that a vote can cast one into hell, though I will argue it can be sinful...
quote:
I also find it troubling that she has called the Iraq war a task that is from God - it makes it sound like it is a holy war, which it is not. And it almost seems like, since we invaded Iraq, and it is a task from God, God gave us this task. I find this pretty troubling.
Well... Try this on for size... Mr. Obama claims Christ and has well champions the cause of abortion and homosexuality... Given what it means to claim the name of Christ and what it entails I could take Mr. Obama's claim of Christ and attach his agendas to it and make a case the man believes God is ok with them and thereby he is championing evil in the name of God.
If she believes we should be there and it's a just cause I don't see how she can deny God's involvement... I personally don't believe Iraq is a just cause...
Personally I believe going into Afghanistan is a just cause and given what God ordained in Romans 13 the government is acting as God's minister of wrath in regards to dealing with terrorism as it should... That being the case it is a task of God...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:41:53 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
It ain't gossip:
The person posting was speculating at the time... That's gossip...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:43:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Throwing up Obama's false theology Church will NOT cover what Sarah's Pastorsaid.
That would be former pastor.... She left the church two years prior to the statements...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:53:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Hi John,
Sorry - just had to watch Rodgers in his public debut with the Pack beat the Vikings - wooohooo!!!Yeeeeeehah! Sorry (and sorry, Jack ;)...
Awwww Liza...!
Throwing up Obama's false theology Church will NOT cover what Sarah's Pastorsaid.
WEll Lord you can't hold me accountable because such and such did worse!
Hi Tracydolls,
Well, my point is that many question Obama due to the church he attends. If this is important, then the church Palin attended should be questioned as well. I think the two comments bear a bit of concern, and that is my humble opinion.
They should be of concern... They are outside the word of God... From all we can tell the person who made the comments has retracted them. And the comments were made two years after Mrs. Palin left the church.
Compare that to Mr. Obama's church issue, not to mention as well his personal issue regarding abortion and homosexuality which are part of the equation.
His former church was apostate... Teaching hate, racism, and recognizing same sex unions in the name of God.
Bottom line... Palin's former pastor made some huge mistakes with his comments and from what we can tell has repented so to speak...
Mr Obama's former pastor makes far larger mistakes on a daily basis and doesn't think he's wrong, even when a member of 20 years and a good friend tossed him like a live grenade...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/10/2008 7:48:10 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
You're the one that brough Rev Wright back into this, John.
Actually someone else did and I responded... Check your facts....
quote:
If people believe that Obama's past church attendence is of importance, then I'm going to look at the same of the other candidate (when they bring it up).
His past church attendance wasn't that far in the past and when push came to shove he dumped his church of twenty years like it was nothing... Regardless... His actions in regards to abortion and the homosexual agenda are enough that whatever church he attends it really doesn't matter. Though hopefully whatever church he does choose to sit in will not recognize same sex unions like his last one... That's just filthy...
quote:
From CNN:
"....Pastor Ed Kalnin, the senior pastor of Palin's former Pentecostal church, has also come under fire for his comments. In 2004, he told church members if they voted for John Kerry for president, they wouldn't get into heaven. He told them, "I question your salvation."
She hasn't been a member since 2002....
quote:
Anyway, I find it troubling that a person meant to be a spiritual guide would even joke about voting (if the pastor was really joking). I have never been to a church that even discusses how one should vote. The comment about voting for John Kerry and not getting to Heaven - is another comment where the pastor is the last word on your salvation, and that is not right, IMHO.
I don't see how a church can ignore how a person votes... Other than something about tax status. What a person supports (and a vote isn't some benign action outside the jurisdiction of God) matters in regards to their spiritual well being... A pastor isn't simply a person who preaches and smiles a lot, they are to shepard the flock so in my opinion silence on voting isn't something to trumpet and the church and it's members should discus it... The idea that voting or whatever else is something outside the umbrella of the body of Christ only plays in to the secular concept compartmentalization. Can't serve two masters...
All that said I do endorse the idea that a vote can cast one into hell, though I will argue it can be sinful...
quote:
I also find it troubling that she has called the Iraq war a task that is from God - it makes it sound like it is a holy war, which it is not. And it almost seems like, since we invaded Iraq, and it is a task from God, God gave us this task. I find this pretty troubling.
Well... Try this on for size... Mr. Obama claims Christ and has well champions the cause of abortion and homosexuality... Given what it means to claim the name of Christ and what it entails I could take Mr. Obama's claim of Christ and attach his agendas to it and make a case the man believes God is ok with them and thereby he is championing evil in the name of God.
If she believes we should be there and it's a just cause I don't see how she can deny God's involvement... I personally don't believe Iraq is a just cause...
Personally I believe going into Afghanistan is a just cause and given what God ordained in Romans 13 the government is acting as God's minister of wrath in regards to dealing with terrorism as it should... That being the case it is a task of God...
1) My apologies 
2) Well, as I have said many times before, John, I believe that it's not going to make a difference whom you for regarding changing the SCJs - there is an entire thread on this, fyi
3) The fact that she more recently said that the serving in the Iraq war is a task from God is what I find disturbing.
4) John, when a spiritual leader says that your salvation is questionable by voting for a particular candidate - which is another thing I find disturbing - this is entirely different than what you're talking about.
5) Well, as I take your word that you are a Christian, I also take Obama's word that he is a Christian.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/10/2008 9:22:20 PM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
5) Well, as I take your word that you are a Christian, I also take Obama's word that he is a Christian.
Not if I championed the abortion and homosexual agendas in order to gain and maintain a seat of authority... A seat of authority God ordained should deal with evil, not promote and or sanction.
Are you not aware that Christians sin?
Obama could very well be saved and we have no idea if this is a time of "wandering in the wilderness" for him. I'm saying that's the case. But you don't know either.
Let me ask you some questions. Do you think there are Christians out there that have abortions? Do you think there are Christians out there that get divorced? Do you think there are Christians that lie? Do you think there are Christians that gossip?
If we say that we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. ~John 1:8
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/10/2008 11:14:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
Are you not aware that Christians sin?
For the record yes, Christians sin... And they repent... A trait of Christians as well... Correct?
How does one repent of something they support like Mr. Obama's support of abortion and the homosexual agenda?
quote:
Obama could very well be saved and we have no idea if this is a time of "wandering in the wilderness" for him. I'm saying that's the case. But you don't know either.
If that's the case he's certainly not as smart as people say he is... Children understand that things like abortion and the homosexual agenda are against God's word... Actually the world does as well...
Unbelievers speak negative of God and His word because it declare such things as wrong yet a man who spent at least the last 20 years in a church is so clueless to God's word he can claim Christ and in the next breath say that homosexuality isn't an less moral than heterosexuality? That man is born with it... Or believe God is ok with abortion?
These are not things that are in the dark... No gray areas... No straining of the gnat... These things we are talking about are Biblical 101 not deep theological points that have been weighed for eons...
Frankly if Mr. Obama cannot see the conflict of his actions in contrast to what he claims he's not smart enough to be President...
quote:
Do you think there are Christians out there that have abortions?
Of course... Yet if a person who claimed Christ supported it, had them and didn't repent they would show they are not really of God...
quote:
Do you think there are Christians out there that get divorced?
Of course... Though divorce for adultery is ok....
quote:
Do you think there are Christians that lie?
Yes... But are they liars?
quote:
Do you think there are Christians that gossip?
Yes, but is it a way of life?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/11/2008 2:50:36 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
Yes, Christians should repent.
What if they don't? No biggie?
quote:
Now, I was speaking of Obama being a sinner, not his supporters.
I am asking how Mr. Obama repents of the things he supports... For instance, abortion and the homosexual agenda..
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/11/2008 7:43:22 AM
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Bob_George
Posts: 177
Joined: 9/4/2008
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Well technically, every church is crazy.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/11/2008 8:04:53 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 809
Joined: 8/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
Well technically, every church is crazy.
Well everyone can't be as sane as your favorite pop star Marilyn Manson.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/11/2008 8:11:35 AM
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Bob_George
Posts: 177
Joined: 9/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bob_George
Well technically, every church is crazy.
Well everyone can't be as sane as your favorite pop star Marilyn Manson.
If only.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/11/2008 9:16:16 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
3) The fact that she more recently said that the serving in the Iraq war is a task from God is what I find disturbing.
I believe it may have the hand of God involved in it as well. How Sarah views it I don't know. But I have always believed the war was God's way to allow us Americans to take them the good news of Jesus Christ. I know hundreds of thousands of bibles and many missionaires have been able to bring thousands to Christ who otherwise may not have been able to hear the good news. I think God may have heard the prayers of some over these whose hearts were truly seeking to know Him and he answered their prayers.
I am sure many Christians who were persecuted under the reign of Nero didn't see God's hand in it. But now looking back we see how God allowed Nero to regin inorder to help spread the gospel message to the other parts of the world.
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