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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 1:06:42 AM
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Rufas2000
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Anyone else think John and Liz will miss each other when the election is over? Their debates are truly epic.
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Be my friend!
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 1:13:46 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
Anyone else think John and Liz will miss each other when the election is over? Their debates are truly epic.
She's feisty and passionate about things... Makes it fun...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 1:29:55 AM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
He disavowed Wright because his poll numbers were going sour. I seriously doubt he suddenly "saw the light". As far as finding a new church... I wouldn't hold your breath that this is something very high on Barack Obama's priority list. At least until he realizes he needs to do something to trick more Christians into voting for him.
Who are we to judge why he left his church, whether because of politics or personal convictions? Sure, it does look like he did because it would hurt him politically, but my prayer is that he will "see the light", personally, not politically, for his sake.
Simple... The man upholds abortion and the homosexual agenda higher than the word of God... That tells me that what matters most is his political well being, not his <cough> personal convictions. And being a member of the body of Christ I for one will not remain silent on the matter and grant consent for such behavior since Mr.Obama's claims of Christ subjects his actions to the judgment of the body...
Romans 7:15 says, "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate...(v17)So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."
So J, we can't judge Obama, as much as we'd like to, on why he left his church. He could very well be reflecting the above mentioned scripture and practicing what he hates by upholding sins i.e. abortion, homosexuality all because he wants to win the Presidency. But then again, his life could not be reflecting the aforementioned verses at all. We just don't know do we?
No one wants you to be silent when it comes to sin, just have a little less judgement and little more compassion. You've heard the saying, "love the sinner, hate the sin" haven't you?
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 1:32:17 AM
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relady
Posts: 1279
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
As someone not familiar with that source, is there any particular reason it's bad? Has it been shown to have false journalism?..Or just differing opinions? ....? Opinions the right doesn't like. Therefore, it must be evil and all wrong and inaccurate. Read both sides and make up your own mind.
I happen to find Huffington and Kos somewhat less "head in the sand" than a lot of the right information sources.
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Adriana Huffington is a big supporter of Democrats. But she wasn't always.....it wasn't all that long ago she was a loyal Repub. Might be worth checking out WHY she changed her views. 
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He sounds like most every rightwing church in America. Fits right in with Pat Robertson, James Dobson, etc. Yup, authoritarians, each and every one. And they want to extend their authoritarianism to all of us. And if we don't accept it, we are in rebellion. LOL. I can't believe half the country votes for people who believe such drivel.
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It means that this particular campaign tactic is one the Republicans threw themselves into, wholeheartedly, just a few months ago, and now whine like dogs with their tails under rocking chairs when the same practice is applied to Republicans.
The GOP INVITED this sort of scrutiny. Why act surprised when the offer is accepted?
Grab the popcorn, this next two months is going to be epic. Oh, most certainly! I can't wait.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 1:42:09 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
Romans 7:15 says, "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate...(v17)So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."
So J, we can't judge Obama, as much as we'd like to, on why he left his church. He could very well be reflecting the above mentioned scripture and practicing what he hates by upholding sins i.e. abortion, homosexuality all because he wants to win the Presidency. But then again, his life could not be reflecting the aforementioned verses at all. We just don't know do we?
What sin was Paul acting after his conversion? Still persecuting Christians? And where is the struggle in regards to the sins of abortion and the homosexual agenda? The man champions the causes for the sake of gaining and maintaining power. And does so in a ordained position of power that God said should deal with evil, not sanction it...
quote:
No one wants you to be silent when it comes to sin, just have a little less judgement and little more compassion. You've heard the saying, "love the sinner, hate the sin" haven't you?
Yes, it's a saying... Much like one, God helps those who help themselves...
Since the bible says the following...
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalms 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 1:56:04 AM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
Romans 7:15 says, "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate...(v17)So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."
So J, we can't judge Obama, as much as we'd like to, on why he left his church. He could very well be reflecting the above mentioned scripture and practicing what he hates by upholding sins i.e. abortion, homosexuality all because he wants to win the Presidency. But then again, his life could not be reflecting the aforementioned verses at all. We just don't know do we?
What sin was Paul acting after his conversion? Still persecuting Christians? And where is the struggle in regards to the sins of abortion and the homosexual agenda? The man champions the causes for the sake of gaining and maintaining power. And does so in a ordained position of power that God said should deal with evil, not sanction it...
quote:
No one wants you to be silent when it comes to sin, just have a little less judgement and little more compassion. You've heard the saying, "love the sinner, hate the sin" haven't you?
Yes, it's a saying... Much like one, God helps those who help themselves...
Since the bible says the following...
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalms 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
And J, don't forget this: (Jesus said) "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye', and behold the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5
This does not mean that we are never to judge, but we do so only when our own life is pure first. I'm not saying that Obama is right, heaven's no! I'm speaking to us, as Christians and how we should at least pray for him that he will see the error of his ways, but do it in love and not hatefulness. Because as Christians, we do want that for him, don't we? (and Oprah too)
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 2:09:07 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
And J, don't forget this: (Jesus said) "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye', and behold the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5
This does not mean that we are never to judge, but we do so only when our own life is pure first.
Nothing about being pure...
And since I don't support abortion and the homosexual agenda I don't blank in my eye regarding those subjects...
This is the only qualifier..
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
quote:
I'm not saying that Obama is right, heaven's no!
I am not sure what you are saying... To be honest... He's either right or wrong...
quote:
I'm speaking to us, as Christians and how we should at least pray for him that he will see the error of his ways, but do it in love and not hatefulness.
I pray that God redeems all of mankind.... And there is nothing hateful in regards to judging someone righteously... In fact it's those who look the other way in regards to Mr. Obama's sin that hate him, since those sins not repented of will eventually land the man in hell...
quote:
Because as Christians, we do want that for him, don't we? (and Oprah too)
Don't want that for anyone, nor do I want folks to think they can slap a bumper sticker on themselves that says they are a believer while they trample all over God's word hoping and counting on Christian to be either to naive or trained to accept whatever comes out of someone's mouth is the truth...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 3:44:00 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
As someone not familiar with that source, is there any particular reason it's bad? Has it been shown to have false journalism?..Or just differing opinions? ....? Opinions the right doesn't like. Therefore, it must be evil and all wrong and inaccurate. Read both sides and make up your own mind.
I happen to find Huffington and Kos somewhat less "head in the sand" than a lot of the right information sources.
Often it will only be the leftist rags that will report something. I do read H.Post sometimes. Theres alot of different people writing opinions, some I agree with , some I don't.
I watch Fox, read Drudge, read blogs on here.
Because someone said a book/site/station is bad. We should'nt see for ourselves?
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Yup, authoritarians, each and every one. And they want to extend their authoritarianism to all of us. And if we don't accept it, we are in rebellion. LOL. I can't believe half the country votes for people who believe such drivel.
They KNOW God's will for EVERYONE. Yeah, you read the history of Christianity. the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition.
quote:
It means that this particular campaign tactic is one the Republicans threw themselves into, wholeheartedly, just a few months ago, and now whine like dogs with their tails under rocking chairs when the same practice is applied to Republicans.
The GOP INVITED this sort of scrutiny. Why act surprised when the offer is accepted?
Grab the popcorn, this next two months is going to be epic.
Oh, most certainly! I can't wait.
the HYPROCRISY is hurting me.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 10:36:28 PM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
And J, don't forget this: (Jesus said) "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye', and behold the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5
This does not mean that we are never to judge, but we do so only when our own life is pure first.
Nothing about being pure...
And since I don't support abortion and the homosexual agenda I don't blank in my eye regarding those subjects...
This is the only qualifier..
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
quote:
I'm not saying that Obama is right, heaven's no!
I am not sure what you are saying... To be honest... He's either right or wrong...
quote:
I'm speaking to us, as Christians and how we should at least pray for him that he will see the error of his ways, but do it in love and not hatefulness.
I pray that God redeems all of mankind.... And there is nothing hateful in regards to judging someone righteously... In fact it's those who look the other way in regards to Mr. Obama's sin that hate him, since those sins not repented of will eventually land the man in hell...
quote:
Because as Christians, we do want that for him, don't we? (and Oprah too)
Don't want that for anyone, nor do I want folks to think they can slap a bumper sticker on themselves that says they are a believer while they trample all over God's word hoping and counting on Christian to be either to naive or trained to accept whatever comes out of someone's mouth is the truth...
You're a little self-righteous aren't you? 
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 10:40:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
And J, don't forget this: (Jesus said) "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye', and behold the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5
This does not mean that we are never to judge, but we do so only when our own life is pure first.
Nothing about being pure...
And since I don't support abortion and the homosexual agenda I don't blank in my eye regarding those subjects...
This is the only qualifier..
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
quote:
I'm not saying that Obama is right, heaven's no!
I am not sure what you are saying... To be honest... He's either right or wrong...
quote:
I'm speaking to us, as Christians and how we should at least pray for him that he will see the error of his ways, but do it in love and not hatefulness.
I pray that God redeems all of mankind.... And there is nothing hateful in regards to judging someone righteously... In fact it's those who look the other way in regards to Mr. Obama's sin that hate him, since those sins not repented of will eventually land the man in hell...
quote:
Because as Christians, we do want that for him, don't we? (and Oprah too)
Don't want that for anyone, nor do I want folks to think they can slap a bumper sticker on themselves that says they are a believer while they trample all over God's word hoping and counting on Christian to be either to naive or trained to accept whatever comes out of someone's mouth is the truth...
You're a little self-righteous aren't you?
Actually I am just firm in what I believe...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 10:49:38 PM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
And J, don't forget this: (Jesus said) "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye', and behold the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5
This does not mean that we are never to judge, but we do so only when our own life is pure first.
Nothing about being pure...
And since I don't support abortion and the homosexual agenda I don't blank in my eye regarding those subjects...
This is the only qualifier..
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
quote:
I'm not saying that Obama is right, heaven's no!
I am not sure what you are saying... To be honest... He's either right or wrong...
quote:
I'm speaking to us, as Christians and how we should at least pray for him that he will see the error of his ways, but do it in love and not hatefulness.
I pray that God redeems all of mankind.... And there is nothing hateful in regards to judging someone righteously... In fact it's those who look the other way in regards to Mr. Obama's sin that hate him, since those sins not repented of will eventually land the man in hell...
quote:
Because as Christians, we do want that for him, don't we? (and Oprah too)
Don't want that for anyone, nor do I want folks to think they can slap a bumper sticker on themselves that says they are a believer while they trample all over God's word hoping and counting on Christian to be either to naive or trained to accept whatever comes out of someone's mouth is the truth...
You're a little self-righteous aren't you?
Actually I am just firm in what I believe...
J, so am I. I stand on scripture firmly in my beliefs. But, just because my opinions are different than yours doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you right. It enables us to have a healthy discussion.
Scripture tells me to hate sin. So therefore, I disagree with EVERYTHING Obama stands for, but that doesn't mean that I should hate him, just the sin. In fact, it should motivate us more to pray for him. And that's where as Christians, we should agree.
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 8:21:28 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Please...
Funny what you avoid... 
quote:
the statement by her pastor, if it is true - is saying that if you criticize Pres Bush, you will be banished to hell. In other words, George Bush's word is the last word on getting to Heaven.
Even if your speculation is correct it's probably more a question of speaking evil of rulers... I believe there is a verse in Acts 23 regarding it and some folks believe it's without qualification. Though I believe it's not speaking evil if you are speaking the truth... We are to judge a righteous judgment... And it's not a sin to be angry with even a brother, but without cause...
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Nowhere in the Bible does it say that ONE earthly creature has the say on who, and who does not go to Heaven. How on earth can you say this?
Of course not, that is solely in God's hands...
Btw... Since we don't know isn't this nothing more than gossip?
Well, it's been reported by other sources now. I'll post links later...dinnertime.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 8:30:45 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
J, so am I. I stand on scripture firmly in my beliefs. But, just because my opinions are different than yours doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you right. It enables us to have a healthy discussion.
To be frank if two people are diametrically opposed someone is wrong and someone is right...
Either Mr.Oabama's stance on abortion is wrong or right... There is nothing else it can be... Same goes for his stance on the homosexual agenda...
quote:
Scripture tells me to hate sin.
It says don't support evil rulers, don't seek the council of the wicked, don't give favor to those who are unjust...
quote:
So therefore, I disagree with EVERYTHING Obama stands for, but that doesn't mean that I should hate him, just the sin. In fact, it should motivate us more to pray for him. And that's where as Christians, we should agree.
I agree... Nobody should for vote him, yet everyone should pray for him... A vote only further cements his evil agenda which certainly can't be good for him in the Spiritual realm...Those who really care about the man should stand against him for his own sake. Much the same way Paul did in regards to Peter's pride... Yet sadly they probably won't and they are sending him down a path to destruction...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 8:37:33 PM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I'm not a pentecostal, but what he believe seems like pretty mainstream amongst Pentecostals.
Umm, Pentecostal here. If the comments accredited to said Pentecostal pastor are true, I have to disagree with them. Also, we Pentecostals don't like being painted with such a wide brush. Many of us are shockingly, open-minded.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 8:45:44 PM
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Georgia-Peach
Posts: 1888
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Georgia on my mind
Status: offline
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Thank you! I am a Pentecostal and attend a A/G church and I didn't appreciate the comment either. Every denomination has those members who will cause others to think that denomination is a little on the nutty side, does not mean its true about all of us though.
_____________________________
Chelle
A Mother holds her child's hand for a moment, but holds their heart forever.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 8:58:50 PM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
J, so am I. I stand on scripture firmly in my beliefs. But, just because my opinions are different than yours doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you right. It enables us to have a healthy discussion.
To be frank if two people are diametrically opposed someone is wrong and someone is right...
Either Mr.Oabama's stance on abortion is wrong or right... There is nothing else it can be... Same goes for his stance on the homosexual agenda...
quote:
Scripture tells me to hate sin.
It says don't support evil rulers, don't seek the council of the wicked, don't give favor to those who are unjust...
quote:
So therefore, I disagree with EVERYTHING Obama stands for, but that doesn't mean that I should hate him, just the sin. In fact, it should motivate us more to pray for him. And that's where as Christians, we should agree.
I agree... Nobody should for vote him, yet everyone should pray for him... A vote only further cements his evil agenda which certainly can't be good for him in the Spiritual realm...Those who really care about the man should stand against him for his own sake. Much the same way Paul did in regards to Peter's pride... Yet sadly they probably won't and they are sending him down a path to destruction...
I believe we're saying the same thing, but in a different way. Just because I say we pray for someone does not mean that I condone their behavior or beliefs. And yes I believe we should stand up against men like Obama and expose him, scripture tells us to be bold in Christ. But as Christians let's do it in a way that he will see Christ in it so that he may turn to the Savior.
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 9:19:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
I believe we're saying the same thing, but in a different way. Just because I say we pray for someone does not mean that I condone their behavior or beliefs.
I never implied nor said such a thing...
quote:
And yes I believe we should stand up against men like Obama and expose him, scripture tells us to be bold in Christ. But as Christians let's do it in a way that he will see Christ in it so that he may turn to the Savior.
I believe I have judged the man based on his actions with no prejudice on my part... It is what it is...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/8/2008 11:54:35 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Umm, Pentecostal here. If the comments accredited to said Pentecostal pastor are true, I have to disagree with them. Also, we Pentecostals don't like being painted with such a wide brush. Many of us are shockingly, open-minded.
quote:
Thank you! I am a Pentecostal and attend a A/G church and I didn't appreciate the comment either. Every denomination has those members who will cause others to think that denomination is a little on the nutty side, does not mean its true about all of us though.
Sorry guys, I was considering the references to a belief in the end times, prophetic declarations, words of knowledge, etc., not so much the specific statements about the Iraq war.
Perhaps that isn't typical of pentecostal theology, but those are the folks that I hear talk about such things the most often.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 7:59:44 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
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ORIGINAL: Lizahana
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
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ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Please...
Funny what you avoid...
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the statement by her pastor, if it is true - is saying that if you criticize Pres Bush, you will be banished to hell. In other words, George Bush's word is the last word on getting to Heaven.
Even if your speculation is correct it's probably more a question of speaking evil of rulers... I believe there is a verse in Acts 23 regarding it and some folks believe it's without qualification. Though I believe it's not speaking evil if you are speaking the truth... We are to judge a righteous judgment... And it's not a sin to be angry with even a brother, but without cause...
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Nowhere in the Bible does it say that ONE earthly creature has the say on who, and who does not go to Heaven. How on earth can you say this?
Of course not, that is solely in God's hands...
Btw... Since we don't know isn't this nothing more than gossip?
Well, it's been reported by other sources now. I'll post links later...dinnertime.
Anything reported about the church she belongs to?
Wasilla Bible Church
http://wasillabible.org/
Hi John,
Sorry - just had to watch Rodgers in his public debut with the Pack beat the Vikings - wooohooo!!!Yeeeeeehah! Sorry (and sorry, Jack ;)...
You're the one that brough Rev Wright back into this, John. If people believe that Obama's past church attendence is of importance, then I'm going to look at the same of the other candidate (when they bring it up).
I couldn't find another decent source about the Pres Bush statement, but I did about the John Kerry statement. I think they did have his sermons online from the church's own website, but this has since been closed down.
From CNN:
"....Pastor Ed Kalnin, the senior pastor of Palin's former Pentecostal church, has also come under fire for his comments. In 2004, he told church members if they voted for John Kerry for president, they wouldn't get into heaven. He told them, "I question your salvation."
The Assembly of God issued a statement online in response, which said Kalnin was "joking" when he suggested "Kerry supporters would go to hell." The statement went on to say: "We do acknowledge in hindsight that it was careless, and we do apologize for that. This statement is not written as a defense, but as a clarification." ..."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/08/palin.pastor/index.html
Now, I really do not care that she or others in her church speak in tongues - that's her faith. I've actually gone to an 'Assembly of God' church camp and attended an 'Assembly of God' type church for quite awhile as a kid. I 'tried out' different churches (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist) as a kid and found that the 'Assembly of God' type church was my favorite, because it seemed like people really wanted to be there.
Anyway, I find it troubling that a person meant to be a spiritual guide would even joke about voting (if the pastor was really joking). I have never been to a church that even discusses how one should vote. The comment about voting for John Kerry and not getting to Heaven - is another comment where the pastor is the last word on your salvation, and that is not right, IMHO.
I also find it troubling that she has called the Iraq war a task that is from God - it makes it sound like it is a holy war, which it is not. And it almost seems like, since we invaded Iraq, and it is a task from God, God gave us this task. I find this pretty troubling.
Just my two cents.
Peace and God bless,
PS Cool avatar.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:49:40 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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Why not compare the "statement of faith" of the Penecostals with that of "black liberation theology"?
Both candidates say their faith helps to shape their beliefs, morals and values.
Why not "believe them both" and then go see what each have to say about;
Salvation
Diety of Christ
Doctrine of Salvation
Doctrine of Sin
I think if we examine their core faith we can see why Obama has no problem with even late term abortion or homosexual marriage......after all it's his faith that helped shape those beliefs. It also helps us understand why Palin is pro-life and against gay marriages.
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I have never been to a church that even discusses how one should vote.
Me either. But Black Liberation Theology is nothing more than a political party with a tax exempt status. They are "heavy" into telling people "who" to vote for and "who" will go to hell. It's in their "core doctrines".
I for one will not enter into heaven according to Obama's faith because I have not repented of my "whiteness".
According to Palin's faith I am saved and will enter into heaven because of what Christ did for me on the cross and my putting my faith in Him.
< Message edited by P31W -- 9/9/2008 8:56:03 AM >
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/9/2008 8:53:56 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2972
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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Let me edit something I said above. I have never been to a chruch that told me "who" to vote for. My church does teach that we are to vote our Christian convictions, compare the issues to what scripture teaches and stand firm on God's word.
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