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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 2:35:30 PM
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PolarBear
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Today's electoral-vote.com linked to this video. It is Palin herself giving a few remarks to the church, about 3 months ago.
http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739
Perhaps nothing too controversial to most of us, but there are a lot of nuts who are Christians and a case could be made that this makes her look like one. I'm a bit concerned.
_____________________________
My current ministry dream:
http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 3:57:02 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
Today's electoral-vote.com linked to this video. It is Palin herself giving a few remarks to the church, about 3 months ago.
http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739
Perhaps nothing too controversial to most of us, but there are a lot of nuts who are Christians and a case could be made that this makes her look like one. I'm a bit concerned.
I think your reaction is valid.
She says a couple things, about Iraq and and a natural gas pipeline, and education and law enforcement, that the secular left is going to go berserk over.
You're playing with fire when you mention "Troops" and "Iraq" and "Task from God" in the same sentence. I'm not quite sure what she meant to say (and there is a harmless interpretation possible), but she's going to have some 'splainin to do.
This is really not going to help the ticket with the disgruntled Hillary supporters.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 4:07:44 PM
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JerrynDolli
Posts: 127
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Let me guess - you "listened to some of (Wright's) sermons on the Internet" - the ones that someone else selected for you to hear, and, for all we know, edited into the bargain.
My question is, if you have to travel to back country Alaska to "sit in the pew of that church (your)self " to determine whether or not you agree with the religious views of Palin's congregation/pastor, why not take the much easier trip to Chicago in order to extend the same courtesy to Wright?
Or was it just easier to let somebody else decide for you how to think?
Just a question - did you insist on hearing Wright's 'full sermons' as you are insisting on hearing 'full sermons' from Palin's pastor?
Again Ms SwedishCovenant,
here is a video not a paste clip... actually showing her speaking from her heart what she believes.
Why are you sounding vex... it is okay that you believe what you believe.
However, don't get upset if others do not drink the kool-aid of the twisted media'a print. We want to hear from the candidates mouth. He is easier to hear what they believe. For from the heart the mouth speaketh. Why not the candidate, not the their pastor... but, the candidate themselves.
Do not get angry if you love us... allow that love to cover differences.
Again, If you are wanting to hear about Sarah Palin's faith from her own lips, here is a great video clip.
http://christiannewsreport.blogspot.com:80/2008/09/palin-speech-from-this-summer.html
Thank you for the quip .... I hope those who have had doubts about her faith and motivation will view it.
I love my Lord with everything in me and have no problem whatsoever supporting this ticket.
~Dolli
_____________________________
Who2Vote4?
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-pIJob_A9dLDElJiYKYORESFSxLhHORMJ?l=1&u=5&mx=9&lmt=5
Jesus/HSpiritHelp!
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5
Being Real With Dolli
http://beingrealwithdolli.blogspot.com/
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 5:09:40 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
Today's electoral-vote.com linked to this video. It is Palin herself giving a few remarks to the church, about 3 months ago.
http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739
From what I have noticed, non-religioius people, including reasonable ones who don't have an axe to grind about Christianity, really get aggravated when we Christians do a couple things:
1) Condemn non-Christians for doing things that Christians do just as much as they do, or just don't seem to be such big deal when we do them (i.e. infidelity,lying).
2) Blithely assume that our wishes are God's wishes to. Or, put another way, believe that what we do is part of God's purpose.
In her thoughts to the congragation in that clip, Gov. Palin strays dangerously close to doing #2. I think she's going to have to explain what she said better, or this will be a big turn-off to a lot of non-Evangelicals.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 5:42:16 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
Today's electoral-vote.com linked to this video. It is Palin herself giving a few remarks to the church, about 3 months ago.
http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739
From what I have noticed, non-religioius people, including reasonable ones who don't have an axe to grind about Christianity, really get aggravated when we Christians do a couple things:
1) Condemn non-Christians for doing things that Christians do just as much as they do, or just don't seem to be such big deal when we do them (i.e. infidelity,lying).
2) Blithely assume that our wishes are God's wishes to. Or, put another way, believe that what we do is part of God's purpose.
In her thoughts to the congragation in that clip, Gov. Palin strays dangerously close to doing #2. I think she's going to have to explain what she said better, or this will be a big turn-off to a lot of non-Evangelicals.
Another thing that I do observe that may happen is that, same opposers of Pentacostalism in its totality (nor even making distinctions of the well know heresies by Neo_pentescostals well known teachings) on this board posting in other forums in so many topics... during election times disregard what they preach year long, just because their adherence to a party.
When you call yourself bible believer and try to transfer your faith to an specific political party as the same as "doing church" and culture do carry high nationalism, one may end up with tendency to see a President and the way he chooses to politicaly act (even in world affairs! not focus on domestics...) as he/she is the man/woman of God and whatever he may do he is being lead by God. That is pretty much dangerous as we already see it playing in the present Republican Administration. Now, politicians may play with this situation to advance their own personal ideals and wills, and may certain count with the support of those whom he/she knows already have this mindset.
USA is a Superpower nation, and this situation is very much dangerous when some may see themselves as having good and Godly side alone, in their own mindset, particularly when doing "business" outside USA. Much have change about how the world perceive USA because of the "mistakes" of the present administration that is soon be no more, thank God!
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 5:58:14 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
The Huffington Post is an awful source. ON par with the Daily Kos. End of story.
As someone not familiar with that source, is there any particular reason it's bad? Has it been shown to have false journalism?..Or just differing opinions? ....?
Among other sick practices, the Huffington Post is known for celebrating Tony Snow's cancer and death.
Here is the Huffington post obit article on Snow.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/12/tony-snow-former-bush-pre_n_112295.html
Please identify those statements which you consider to be "celebrating Tony Snow's cancer and death."
The post cleaned up their web site after the original outrage. If you read the comments about the obituary, many feel obliged to say that they can't say anything nice because there isn't anything nice to say. "My momma taught me, "If you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all!" Consequently, in this case, I must hold my peace." That's what liberals call class.
And there is also some confession of guilt about earlier sick comments. "It's nice to see the class of some of the posters here. I've seen some really nasty stuff on this website."
But if that still doesn't convince you, here are some comments from liberals who post at the LA Times.
"I hope the rest of these criminals die too. Good riddance to a person who contributed to making this world a worse place."
"I wonder how he likes hell."
"Good riddance..."
"This outrage indicates why new legislation should be put in place to require a regular colonoscopy for Snow's cohorts in propaganda. (Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck etc) Only a careful inspection of their alimentary tracts will prevent their insolent, hatefilled cancer from developing and spreading."
Your liberal pals are sickos.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 9:15:56 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html
How does this compare with Obama's church?
Brief Excerpt:
The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
I very much respect both Obama and Palin and those of you who do not, too bad - you're missing out.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 9:33:47 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 524
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
I very much respect both Obama and Palin and those of you who do not, too bad - you're missing out.
Peace and God bless,
I respect them too, but don't find analysis of their background wrong.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 9:33:48 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1035
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/5/2008 9:36:00 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 524
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
But people had the right to examine Jeremiah Wright. It called for it and then some!....I'm not saying the tone of disrespect was right at times, but the examination itself was needed.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 1:43:28 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
Obama's church was a large issue during the Democratic primary. Yes, conservatives laughed about it, but it was a Democratic battle issue long before HC conceded.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 10:04:12 AM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
Or, not associate with a church that assumes USA has a special covenant like Israel.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 11:36:35 AM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
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What's more important is that we should be concerned about Wright and his mental/spiritual state, and the people who believe/follow him. At least Obama was smart enough to disassociate himself with Wright.
Has Obama found another church yet?
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 2:34:28 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1232
Joined: 10/25/2005
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He disavowed Wright because his poll numbers were going sour. I seriously doubt he suddenly "saw the light". As far as finding a new church... I wouldn't hold your breath that this is something very high on Barack Obama's priority list. At least until he realizes he needs to do something to trick more Christians into voting for him.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 8:32:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
Anyone that cares about their spiritual well being should avoid the church Obama attended for 20 years...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 8:38:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
From what I have noticed, non-religioius people, including reasonable ones who don't have an axe to grind about Christianity, really get aggravated when we Christians do a couple things:
Where are these people who don't have an axe to grind? Does not the world hate God?
quote:
1) Condemn non-Christians for doing things that Christians do just as much as they do, or just don't seem to be such big deal when we do them (i.e. infidelity,lying).
2) Blithely assume that our wishes are God's wishes to. Or, put another way, believe that what we do is part of God's purpose.
In her thoughts to the congragation in that clip, Gov. Palin strays dangerously close to doing #2. I think she's going to have to explain what she said better, or this will be a big turn-off to a lot of non-Evangelicals.
Non-believers are going to be turned-off by those who claim God and live their faith...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/6/2008 8:40:11 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
What's more important is that we should be concerned about Wright and his mental/spiritual state, and the people who believe/follow him. At least Obama was smart enough to disassociate himself with Wright.
Has Obama found another church yet?
He parted ways with the apostate church because it crossed his politics, not because he saw the serious flaws in its doctrne, one being that the church recognized gay unions...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:00:16 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
Anyone that cares about their spiritual well being should avoid the church Obama attended for 20 years...
Oh, and they should flock to Palin's church, if what is reported is true? In other words, God has somehow sanctioned the pastor of Paliin's church to deem who and who is not going to Heaven? Is this what you are saying?
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:09:29 AM
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psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
He disavowed Wright because his poll numbers were going sour. I seriously doubt he suddenly "saw the light". As far as finding a new church... I wouldn't hold your breath that this is something very high on Barack Obama's priority list. At least until he realizes he needs to do something to trick more Christians into voting for him.
Who are we to judge why he left his church, whether because of politics or personal convictions? Sure, it does look like he did because it would hurt him politically, but my prayer is that he will "see the light", personally, not politically, for his sake.
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:17:50 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
Anyone that cares about their spiritual well being should avoid the church Obama attended for 20 years...
Oh, and they should flock to Palin's church, if what is reported is true? In other words, God has somehow sanctioned the pastor of Paliin's church to deem who and who is not going to Heaven? Is this what you are saying?
I didn't mention her church.... Personally I wouldn't attend an AoG church... Though I haven't heard of a AoG church recognizes gay unions, have you? Btw... Shouldn't you wait to see if the claims are true before you put too much stock in what is going on in her former church.
Since you love to speculate in order to defer from what is posted, is your mention of Palin's former church an implied defense of the apostate church that Mr. Obama attend for 20 years...
For the record I base that on the FACT his former church of 20 year recognizes gay unions... Let alone the other un- biblical teachings.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:21:28 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psalm116
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
He disavowed Wright because his poll numbers were going sour. I seriously doubt he suddenly "saw the light". As far as finding a new church... I wouldn't hold your breath that this is something very high on Barack Obama's priority list. At least until he realizes he needs to do something to trick more Christians into voting for him.
Who are we to judge why he left his church, whether because of politics or personal convictions? Sure, it does look like he did because it would hurt him politically, but my prayer is that he will "see the light", personally, not politically, for his sake.
Simple... The man upholds abortion and the homosexual agenda higher than the word of God... That tells me that what matters most is his political well being, not his <cough> personal convictions. And being a member of the body of Christ I for one will not remain silent on the matter and grant consent for such behavior since Mr.Obama's claims of Christ subjects his actions to the judgment of the body...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:22:49 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
While I find this sort of ridiculous teaching wrong, I'm not going to hold it against Palin as I did not hold the criticisms against Obama's church.
I do think there was a very unfair, ridiculous littany of anti-Obama posts here in the past - however, some people have more than made up for that by posting ridiculous and cruel posts about Gov Palin. I had hoped that those of the other party would not do this, but they have.
Agreed.
Sadly, the obsession with Obama's church by some on the Right is now fueling a fearce examination of Palin's associations. If this keeps up, future candidates would be wise to avoid church all together.
Anyone that cares about their spiritual well being should avoid the church Obama attended for 20 years...
Oh, and they should flock to Palin's church, if what is reported is true? In other words, God has somehow sanctioned the pastor of Paliin's church to deem who and who is not going to Heaven? Is this what you are saying?
I didn't mention her church.... Personally I wouldn't attend an AoG church... Though I haven't heard of a AoG church recognizes gay unions, have you? Btw... Shouldn't you wait to see if the claims are true before you put too much stock in what is going on in her former church.
Since you love to speculate in order to defer from what is posted, is your mention of Palin's former church an implied defense of the apostate church that Mr. Obama attend for 20 years...
For the record I base that on the FACT his former church of 20 year recognizes gay unions... Let alone the other un- biblical teachings.
Don't get off the subject - If what they post is true - then this is a church that thinks they are sanctioned by God, and that we are all to go to them to see if we're going to Heaven - it is utterly ridiculous and to say otherwise is beyond word.
Peace and God bless,
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:41:53 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5393
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Don't get off the subject -
I am sure the truth of Mr. Obama's church hurts... And I am not aware if you have posted in regards to it...
quote:
If what they post is true - then this is a church that thinks they are sanctioned by God, and that we are all to go to them to see if we're going to Heaven - it is utterly ridiculous and to say otherwise is beyond word.
Don't all churches believe they are sanctioned by God?
Does your church believe it teaches correct doctrine and what it teaches leads people to salvation? Of course...
Now are you aware that not every church believes what your church does?
So does that mean only what your church teaches is correct?
If you say yes... You have your church being the only means of "salvational" preaching...
If you say no... You have false teaching leading to salvation... Either in your church or elsewhere...
And if your happen to be Roman Catholic you are really stuck since they without a doubt speak about the above and believe anyone saved outside the church is so in spite of their church...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Palin's Controversial Church (As Crazy As Obama's?) - 9/7/2008 12:54:51 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/20/2005
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
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ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Don't get off the subject -
I am sure the truth of Mr. Obama's church hurts... And I am not aware if you have posted in regards to it...
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If what they post is true - then this is a church that thinks they are sanctioned by God, and that we are all to go to them to see if we're going to Heaven - it is utterly ridiculous and to say otherwise is beyond word.
Don't all churches believe they are sanctioned by God?
Does your church believe it teaches correct doctrine and what it teaches leads people to salvation? Of course...
Now are you aware that not every church believes what your church does?
So does that mean only what your church teaches is correct?
If you say yes... You have your church being the only means of "salvational" preaching...
If you say no... You have false teaching leading to salvation... Either in your church or elsewhere...
And if your happen to be Roman Catholic you are really stuck since they without a doubt speak about the above and believe anyone saved outside the church is so in spite of their church...
Please...the statement by her pastor, if it is true - is saying that if you criticize Pres Bush, you will be banished to hell. In other words, George Bush's word is the last word on getting to Heaven.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that ONE earthly creature has the say on who, and who does not go to Heaven. How on earth can you say this?
Peace and God bless,
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