Vetting? (Full Version)

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Walker311 -> Vetting? (9/3/2008 8:05:40 PM)

Vetting

I'm familiar with many words but will admit that I did not know the meaning of vetting until recently because it is not a word that I hear or use.

I think most of you may now know the meaning of vetting if you have heard anything in the news recently about our possible future VP of the US.

I am lightly interested in politics... but now I am deeply concerned.

My point?

I am a weather nut and as I type this, we are still feeling the remnants of hurricane Gustav here in central Mississippi. The only thing that has recently tweaked my interest as much or more than tracking this and other hurricanes is this.

How much does God figure in the leadership of this great nation?

Do you believe that an unsaved person could lead this country just a well as a Christian? If so, why?

Do you believe that each of these candidates are sincerely seeking God's help and guidance or merely wanting the job?

Finally!

I seriously believe that God had His hand in reducing the destructiveness of Gustav and that He allowed it to come when it did and where it landed for a higher purpose.

How do you feel about this statement and the other questions?



SonInMe1 -> RE: Vetting? (9/3/2008 8:58:59 PM)

By their fruit you will know them.

Time will tell.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 2:31:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311

Vetting

I'm familiar with many words but will admit that I did not know the meaning of vetting until recently because it is not a word that I hear or use.

I think most of you may now know the meaning of vetting if you have heard anything in the news recently about our possible future VP of the US.

I am lightly interested in politics... but now I am deeply concerned.

My point?

I am a weather nut and as I type this, we are still feeling the remnants of hurricane Gustav here in central Mississippi. The only thing that has recently tweaked my interest as much or more than tracking this and other hurricanes is this.

How much does God figure in the leadership of this great nation?

Do you believe that an unsaved person could lead this country just a well as a Christian? If so, why?

Do you believe that each of these candidates are sincerely seeking God's help and guidance or merely wanting the job?

Finally!

I seriously believe that God had His hand in reducing the destructiveness of Gustav and that He allowed it to come when it did and where it landed for a higher purpose.

How do you feel about this statement and the other questions?

How much does God figure in the leadership of this great nation? I know how He figures on governing authorities. Romans 13:1-5.

Do you believe that an unsaved person could lead this country just a well as a Christian? If so, why? No.

Do you believe that each of these candidates are sincerely seeking God's help and guidance or merely wanting the job? I believe both want to become the next president of the USA. I also believe that if they have stated they are seeking God's help and guidance, that they are doing so sincerely.

I seriously believe that God had His hand in reducing the destructiveness of Gustav and that He allowed it to come when it did and where it landed for a higher purpose. How do you feel about this statement and the other questions? Gustav the storm did kill people as it approached the USA. I believe God is a God of love, and that He helped and guided the leaders of the USA toward getting people away from the storm, where loss of life would be minimal.

I feel these are some interesting questions, and I do not feel vetted. I do think you should answer them for the rest of us, especially the last nutty one about weather. I also appreciate that you are not seeking to argue anything and refuse to not offer any support for your argument.

OneJohn410



mvic -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 6:04:37 AM)

May I add another question to the ones you asked:

Is God still in control whatever happens?

The answer is: YES.

So let's trust Him.



deliveredarling -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 6:55:12 AM)

quote:


I seriously believe that God had His hand in reducing the destructiveness of Gustav and that He allowed it to come when it did and where it landed for a higher purpose.


I agree with this 100%



kyl -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 1:12:43 PM)

quote:

How much does God figure in the leadership of this great nation?

Greatly

quote:

Do you believe that an unsaved person could lead this country just a well as a Christian? If so, why?
NO
quote:

Do you believe that each of these candidates are sincerely seeking God's help and guidance or merely wanting the job?
I would like to think they were but only the Lord knows. I think there are some who do it for the right reasons and others for the wrong ,like anything else.
I think living in a democracy we are responsible to vote for the leader which we believe will seek the Lord for guidence. That will not do just what is popular. When you read the bible it is very apparent how important the leaders,kings and heads of countries were. That has never changed. We also have a responsiblity to pray for our leaders or governing committees and the people in our country and in the world. Everything is in the Lords hands but we are also to do our part. That is electing someone who has values, wisdom,integrity and a true love for the Lord.
Everytime a decision is made in government it directly affects us,our lives,our children and the future of our country.

quote:

I seriously believe that the Lord has His hand in reducing the destructiveness of Gustav and that He allowed it to come when it did and where it landed for a higher purpose.

I believe that The Lord knows everything that goes on in his creation. I believe he has control of everything having to do with the everything and anything.
I believe He always has a hand in things that affect his children directly including the weather. Yes I believe he answered prayers and calmed the storm. If he calmed the storms when the disciples were frightened I certainly think he would do the same for us today. Though there were lives lost ,how many lives were saved. The Lord does things according to his will,in his time and to his glory.
When I see storms like this I always wonder what it may have been if his people had not prayed.
That has to do with everything.
What happens if we dont pray and just say whatever happens,happens.
There is a reason the Lord tells us to ask!!!!



deermousie -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 1:23:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311
How much does God figure in the leadership of this great nation?


Everything. God's hand is on His world and He is sovereign. Look at the OT for how He dealt with Israel. When they turned away from God to idols He sent prophets to turn them back. If they didn't turn back, He sent drought or the armies of other nations to kill and carry them off to slavery. When they turned back to God, He sent a person to lead them back to Israel and kings either let them go voluntarily or died trying to stop them.

quote:

Do you believe that an unsaved person could lead this country just a well as a Christian? If so, why?


God turns a king's heart whereever He wants like a riverbed turns a river. God can use the godless man's sin to bring a country to its knees so it turns back to God, or He can use a godly man to bring justice and peace to a country that is following God.

quote:

Do you believe that each of these candidates are sincerely seeking God's help and guidance or merely wanting the job?


You know how you can tell a politician is lying? Their lips are moving.

That's a little cynical, but in general Christians deserted the political arena over a century ago because it was such a sinful business. So now mostly the nonChristians have been making it go. The people running for office can get the key vote from the Christian community if they say they are Christians or church goers, and can distance themselves from the madrassas, unsavory relatives, and pastors who spew unbiblical teachings. So much of it is about spin.

Yeah there may be people who have run for office who are sincere about their faith, but it's really tough being a Christian politician in a government system that runs on compromise.



Walker311 -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 8:38:44 PM)

I would rather our leaders be Christians but I would vote for a non-Christian if I felt he/she was the best person for the job.

I want to believe that God has his hand on this nation but there is so much wrong with it and I do not see her turning toward God. He is the remedy and healer and I believe that Ronald Regan and many others sincerely sought God for help and guidance.

I am amazed that America has not imploded due to abortion, drugs, gay lifestyle, porn, and violent crimes. No person in leadership can turn this around but I do believe the right man in the whitehouse being bombarded by multitudes of prayers can do wonders.

I'm not ready for America to implode. I want my kids to experience an abundant life.

God knows how much America can handle and if Gustav had been another Katrina this soon, the consequences could have affected us beyond the effects that 9/11 had on us all.



hellochurch -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 9:24:12 PM)

dear Walker 311:

I believe God is and isn't in control. Insurance co.'s call things " acts of God" but yet can we find this in scripture, more than just one inference.

I don't blame God for the weather. God has people on the earth that he gave dominion to, and it includes dominion over nature.

Re politics, when will the believers in the country get more involved, believers should be in leadership esp. with their prayer power, they can change things.

Dont let statistics on sin by sinners disturb you, sinners always sin, but let statistics on sinners disturb you, American christians need to pray and believe for their nation to be saved and in the meantime, they need to take leadership places, esp. in government.

Look at what Joseph and Daniel did in the nations they were exiled in? God moved through them and their prayers, same with the guy who got 'down' with God over the state of Israel and its temple and wall he sought the Lord and through that one man, things turned around.

Since God is God HE only needs one man to work with who will partner and cooperate with him, who will use faith and believe what God is telling him and then do it.

God could have one man on the earth, doing HIs will and clean up eveerything and bring all who will to the Lord. It could be done with one human and GOD. He is that powerful, he doesnt really even need one person, He could do it himself but made his own rules and chose not to.

He is so cool, I love Him so much.

Dont fear or fret, pray and believe and ask what He wants you to do, perhaps you are the one he will use to do it all, even.

I thought everything fine with what you said, i didnt feel anythign you said was out of line, like one of your posters seemed to think.

love to you walker 311, you wouldnt be texas walker would you? the movie star believer?



hellochurch -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 9:30:36 PM)

P.S. "If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray, and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and turn and heal their land."

Note God does not ask sinners to turn from their wicked ways, he asks the saints, - 'his people'.

then he says, seek my face, pray

and then the promise,

I will Hear, and Turn, (turn toward the nation, no longer turning away and allowing judgement )

and Heal their land. Fix and make right what is wrong.

His Word is His Bond. He will, if we will.

will you, ?....will we?



hellochurch -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 9:34:09 PM)

Sin requires judgement outside of repentance. This is why some awful weather things come agaisnt people. Bad things come against people as judgement on sin.

I dont believe this is a conscious judgemnet of God, but it is a law built into this world and universe that sins builds up and naturally judgement stores up and then releases agasint it.

kind of like sowing and reaping, budhists call it karma, bad and good, sowing and reaping is wht the bible calls it, you sow good and reap good, you sow evil and reap evil.

I dont think God is personally throwing down judgement on people inthese cases, but a build up of sin calls for judgement in the laws like sowing and reaping alrealdy set up and these work without Gods direct invovlement.



Walker311 -> RE: Vetting? (9/4/2008 9:57:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellochurch

dear Walker 311:

I believe God is and isn't in control. Insurance co.'s call things " acts of God" but yet can we find this in scripture, more than just one inference.

I don't blame God for the weather. God has people on the earth that he gave dominion to, and it includes dominion over nature.

Re politics, when will the believers in the country get more involved, believers should be in leadership esp. with their prayer power, they can change things.

Dont let statistics on sin by sinners disturb you, sinners always sin, but let statistics on sinners disturb you, American christians need to pray and believe for their nation to be saved and in the meantime, they need to take leadership places, esp. in government.

Look at what Joseph and Daniel did in the nations they were exiled in? God moved through them and their prayers, same with the guy who got 'down' with God over the state of Israel and its temple and wall he sought the Lord and through that one man, things turned around.

Since God is God HE only needs one man to work with who will partner and cooperate with him, who will use faith and believe what God is telling him and then do it.

God could have one man on the earth, doing HIs will and clean up eveerything and bring all who will to the Lord. It could be done with one human and GOD. He is that powerful, he doesnt really even need one person, He could do it himself but made his own rules and chose not to.

He is so cool, I love Him so much.

Dont fear or fret, pray and believe and ask what He wants you to do, perhaps you are the one he will use to do it all, even.

I thought everything fine with what you said, i didnt feel anythign you said was out of line, like one of your posters seemed to think.

love to you walker 311, you wouldnt be texas walker would you? the movie star believer?


Hello Hellochurch!

I have a son named Walker. I knew a man many years ago before there was a Texas ranger and liked the name.

I think I understand what you are trying to say concerning God and control but consider this. If God did not have continuous control, it would be like turning a child loose in a candy store.

We do not have dominion over weather by design and even if we did not pollute or do the bad things that we do to the environment, we would still see inclement weather. Bad storms thin out the population of the world and simultaneouly makes things grow... hurricanes are great big scrub brushes.

God only needed to use one man to change the world and that was His son. The next time God uses one man will be when He allows the anti-christ to reveal himself.

This thread came about as an extension of my recent interest in politics which continues to suprise me.

I hate politics but I love America and these politicians that are all over the media are all we have to choose from. I have to find something that within some of them that I can tolerate because someone will be sitting in the big house and their ability or the lack thereof will possilby affect the future of this nation.

Thank you for your comments and God bless!



terryjohn -> RE: Vetting? (9/5/2008 1:37:34 PM)

Interesting question. I believe God has raised up evil men of the past who have made their countries strong and wealthy and I personally couldn't be less interested in politics for after visiting our nations capital and walking through the halls of power I am convinced power and hope lie elsewhere. The political workings of men are frustrated by God so that hope should only rest in Christ. Now I am aware that there is wisdom in the policies of some and goodwill towards others but how can an evil people elect a holy leader? Why would men of faith desire such a position when Christ Himself rejected the attempts of men to make Him King?

Even the greatest leader of men without faith is lost.



atheistinpeace -> RE: Vetting? (9/5/2008 3:52:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311
Do you believe that an unsaved person could lead this country just a well as a Christian? If so, why?


I think so, yes. Quite aside from the fact that the First Amendment forbids the state from backing any one religion, I don't think belief in the divine is neccessary for good government. (Naturally, I don't believe that a Christian president would enjoy divine guidance that would be withheld from an unsaved one. And if Bush has been divinely guided, then God's got some pretty crazy ideas about budget deficits!)

Firstly, some of the most secular states in the world today are also the most successful: the Scandinavian countries provide the best example of this. They are all irreligious, yet frequently rank top on various indices, such as those relating to democracy and quality of life. To anticipate an objection: North Korea shouldn't be classed as a secular state, given that it is constructed around the worship of its leader (who is dead; Kim Jong Il is merely the leader of the Party).

Secondly (and returning to America), two of the best presidents have been more or less secular. Jefferson was a Deist who abhorred Christianity (his Deism came from the argument from design - but he lived pre-Darwin); Lincoln was only later a true believer. Both were great men, and both acquitted themselves of their duties without God.

A final point: the obvious problem is that an unsaved person could never be elected. But, ask conservatives in 1975 whether they'd want a divorced B-grade actor in the White House, and you'd have also received a resounding 'No'...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Walker311
I seriously believe that God had His hand in reducing the destructiveness of Gustav and that He allowed it to come when it did and where it landed for a higher purpose.


If God reduced Gustav's capacity for destruction, why didn't he stop Gustav from forming in the first place?!

You seem to accept that hurricanes form naturally - I merely presume so from your belief that God intervened to temper Gustav. Yet meteorology can also adequately explain why hurricanes forming over the Atlantic basin take the path that they do (including, in reference to your post, where they land), and how they become less powerful. For explanatory reasons, God isn't necessary.

Are you suggesting, then, that natural disasters that cause destruction are divinely inspired for a specific purpose? This is a common belief. I remain amused by the suggestion (made by the Bishop of Carlisle) that the torrential flooding in the UK last summer was in punishment for Britain's tolerance of homosexuals. The floods struck in conservative middle-class areas, not even coming close to London and Brighton, where they would have been considerably more effective in punishing sexual sin!

Best

AiP



Walker311 -> RE: Vetting? (9/5/2008 4:36:36 PM)

Hellochurch said: Bad things come against people as judgement on sin.


Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.



Walker311 -> RE: Vetting? (9/5/2008 5:01:05 PM)

AIP,

I think that you and I are on the same page as far as non-Christians being successful whether as president or atheist clergy, if there is such a thing. So, no further comment needed on this.

quote:


If God reduced Gustav's capacity for destruction, why didn't he stop Gustav from forming in the first place?!


God is actively involved in all things and so you either must believe by faith that He has a purpose in all things or that there is no God and that chance is the only smidgen of hope that man has.

Just look at what New Orleans learned from hurricane Katrina. What have we learned from 9/11? If God always intervened, what would we learn?

What purpose in there in the killing of unborn children? I don't know.

What purpose is there in people starving to death in Uganda while their government hoards food in wharehouses? I don't know.

God could intervene in all of these things but He often does not and no one alive can do anything but observe and learn. But, we don't!

quote:

I remain amused by the suggestion (made by the Bishop of Carlisle) that the torrential flooding in the UK last summer was in punishment for Britain's tolerance of homosexuals.


Well, they need to be punished and if I were God I would send hellfire to teach all the gays running amok that I am God and will not tolerate and blahblahblah... It is a good thing that I am not God!

God is amused at you and me. Amused at you because He revealed Himself to you once or more but you will not admit it... until you one day see Him face to face. He is amused at me because I sometimes think that I know what is best for me without His say.



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