Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (Full Version)

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solomonsprayer -> Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 6:14:09 PM)

I think most have heard of Obama's church and controversial pastor Jeremiah Wright...His church, Trinity United Church of Christ, is self-described as a Christian church which also incorporates Black Liberation Theology.

Given that Black Liberation Theology, an even more radical form of Liberation Theology, is denounced by high profile Christian pastors, such as Rick Warren (I recall him saying both Liberation Theology and Black Liberation Theology are wrong on the Sean Hannity show interview this week...not that I like Hannity..he's a hatemonger to me), can we assume that Barrack Obama's faith is also wrong and not Christian?

I realize that Obama has denounced his pastor's controversial teachings (though that is somewhat questionable, since many feel it was due to political expediency) and that he seems to believe in the core tenants of the Christian faith, but I'm curious if people feel he is not a true Christian?....

I know that Obama has some controversial views too....I recall someone saying he supported abortion.



Preludeian -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 6:29:24 PM)

IMHO, any man/woman who believes in abortion is not a 'true' Christian.



dianetavegia -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 7:35:52 PM)

Would a true Christian carry a Hindu god charm in their pocket?



TorchHeart -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 7:47:58 PM)

Yes, he is a true Christian. Anyone who is still believing the garbage put out about Obama being a closet Muslim or Hindu, still belives the story about him never standing for the Pledge of Allegence (I've seen several videos of him LEADING the Pledge in the Senate with his hand over his heart), that he was actually born in the Middle East and changed his name from "Barry" to 'Barack,"and some of the other goofy lies that have been spread about him needs to start actually reading up on the fact... and I don't mean over biggoted internet websites run be sensationalists or crackpots. (A good start would be the book "Debunked" by Richard Roeper, and you can move on from there.)

I'm not saying that Obama is perfect. He's a politician, so it wouldn't surprise me if he did have a few skeletons in the closet. This, however, is not one of them. The guy is as much a Christian as George W. Bush.



chrisovery -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 7:52:36 PM)

torchheart, he believes that abortion is good. show me where this is in tha b ible that makes it right in gods eyes. i directly heard him and his wife state that abortion should be legal and the womans choice of when she wants to become a mother. so they are good with fornication aswell as murder. sorry man but that is not written up in the word of god as good anywhere. if i am wrong show me.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 7:54:55 PM)

The guy is as much a Christian as George W. Bush.

Torchheart, I am sorry I wouldn't have ended what I said with that line. It pretty much makes small everything else you said. Think about it...



atheistinpeace -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 7:55:25 PM)

Tricky one... I was personally very heartened when Obama gave a speech pointing out the difficulty of governing by religion (which, under the First Amendment, he cannot do anyway) - during this speech, he pointed out the parts of the Bible that command believers to commit utterly horrid deeds (stone people, keep slaves). To me, they were the words of someone who has critically thought about religion (as we all should do - regardless of what outcome it leads to), and decided that the holy books are nothing more than ancient texts.

It may well be that he is not a true Christian. But he is compelled to tell the electorate that he is. Were he to admit atheism/agnosticism (this seems far more likely than the contention that he follows a different faith), he'd be out of the race in an instant. This is America's loss. For an able President should be able to discharge his duties regardless of belief in the divine. If he has a weakness, it's his economic policy - on which faith should, and can't, have any bearing. But he can resolve this weakness. If he can, he could be a great president, with or without faith.

AiP



humbleinspirit -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:26:21 PM)

In the old testament, God commanded that people who commited certain sins to be stoned. Jesus came, died and resurrected, and now we are under grace. People do not get stoned anymore.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:28:13 PM)

or should we add, whoever of you who is without sin cast the first stone? and then they all left...and Jesus said to her just like none of them condemned her that neither would He... yay



humbleinspirit -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:29:44 PM)

Yes, whippie!



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:30:18 PM)

whippie, never heard that before...lol



humbleinspirit -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:32:43 PM)

Never? Hmmmm



TorchHeart -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:49:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisovery

torchheart, he believes that abortion is good. show me where this is in tha b ible that makes it right in gods eyes. i directly heard him and his wife state that abortion should be legal and the womans choice of when she wants to become a mother. so they are good with fornication aswell as murder. sorry man but that is not written up in the word of god as good anywhere. if i am wrong show me.



Well, show me where putting people to death in the electric chair is good. As far as I'm concerned, that's murder as well. Or baring false witness against thy neighbor (even if that neighbor is another country, or the people who elected you to public office). Those are just two examples. Those are just two examples of the current President's stances. If you're going to judge Obama on just the abortion issue, you might want to take a step back and look at pretty much every President we've ever had in America.

And I have met many people who are Christian and PRO-CHOICE. The problem is that nobody fully agrees where life actually begins. Some people point to references in the Bible (none of which give aa clear answer). Some people point to doctors. Some people just go with what they believe in themselves. Some people go with ideas I haven't even heard of.

Unless Jesus Christ pops up and runs for President of the United States, every one of these politicians stands for something of questionable morality. Bank on it. They're only human, just like you and me.



TorchHeart -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:54:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus

The guy is as much a Christian as George W. Bush.

Torchheart, I am sorry I wouldn't have ended what I said with that line. It pretty much makes small everything else you said. Think about it...



I'm thinking about it, and I don't see anything wrong with it. Both claim to be Christians. Both claim to have let Jesus enter into their lives, and to have had a "spiritual journey" with Him. Both have sinned. Both are human. Christ died for both of them. Both have beliefs that they feel hold true to Christianity, but that not all of the American public is going to accept.

Since both men claim to know Jesus, I believe it was a fair statement.



makarizo -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:56:05 PM)

longer ago, when he was talking on national tv, he said he that he believed and that Jesus Christ was his savior. and when he said it, he looked down and to the right.... plain as day. maybe that didn't mean anything.



denbert -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 8:58:14 PM)

-
He will tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:01:29 PM)

I simply believe that sometimes talk is cheap



Kat_D -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:02:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus

or should we add, whoever of you who is without sin cast the first stone? and then they all left...and Jesus said to her just like none of them condemned her that neither would He... yay

You left off the last part of the verse which many conveniently do when it better validates their point. This was a conditional verse:"Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more."

So, if Obama is a Christian, he needs to repent for his pro-abortion stance among other things in his voting record...then I might consider that he may well be.

The bottom line is only he and God know for sure, but his fruit is somewhat tainted.



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:08:11 PM)

Romans says, "Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Did she not come to an understanding of who He was?



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:09:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisovery

torchheart, he believes that abortion is good. show me where this is in tha b ible that makes it right in gods eyes. i directly heard him and his wife state that abortion should be legal and the womans choice of when she wants to become a mother. so they are good with fornication aswell as murder. sorry man but that is not written up in the word of god as good anywhere. if i am wrong show me.



Well, show me where putting people to death in the electric chair is good. As far as I'm concerned, that's murder as well. Or baring false witness against thy neighbor (even if that neighbor is another country, or the people who elected you to public office). Those are just two examples. Those are just two examples of the current President's stances. If you're going to judge Obama on just the abortion issue, you might want to take a step back and look at pretty much every President we've ever had in America.

And I have met many people who are Christian and PRO-CHOICE. The problem is that nobody fully agrees where life actually begins. Some people point to references in the Bible (none of which give aa clear answer). Some people point to doctors. Some people just go with what they believe in themselves. Some people go with ideas I haven't even heard of.

Unless Jesus Christ pops up and runs for President of the United States, every one of these politicians stands for something of questionable morality. Bank on it. They're only human, just like you and me.


Death penalty and abortion..... you can not even compare the two. Death penalty is not murder its justice. Abortion is murder plain and simple. The bear false witness cant argue there, if you are in politics that seems to just be part of it, that is why our country is the way it is today. Pretty much every politician uses that one, twisting peoples voting track etc, but supporting gay rights/abortion pretty much means I cannot and will not vote for them.



Kat_D -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:21:38 PM)

quote:

Romans says, "Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."


Again, you left off the ending...1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."

Those conditional verses are tricky, huh?



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:22:38 PM)

Hmmm! *concedes



colliefan -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:34:00 PM)

If Barry is really a Christian why didn't he seek out his many half-brothers and sisters and help them out of their poverty?

1 Tim 5:8 (ESV) 8But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Guess he reads the Liberatiion Theology version that states the government is to provide for the family



TorchHeart -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:42:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

Death penalty and abortion..... you can not even compare the two. Death penalty is not murder its justice. Abortion is murder plain and simple.



The death penalty is murder, just as aborition is murder. You can call it justice all you want, its still murder. Its taking your wrath or society's wrath out on an individual, and as I recall wrath was one of the seven deadly sins that we hear so much about in teachings from such church leaders as St. Thomas Acquanus. Furthermore, when you take the life of one of those people on death row, it is my opinion that you cut short that person's time to actually get right with God before their day. Their crime may have been hideous, but killing them doesn't bring back whoever they killed, and it certanly doesn't provide justice. Two wrongs simply do not make a right.

I don't believe Christ, Himself, would stand and condone either the death penalty OR abortion. Unfortunately, I don't see many options with a lot of the politicians out there. Its either one or the other. Too bad both can't be done away with.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

but supporting gay rights/abortion pretty much means I cannot and will not vote for them.



I'm sorry, I know I'm going to take it on the shins in this area on this forum, but gay rights don't bother me either. I'm not going to condem them here on Earth for their sins, and their "rights" aren't going to affect me any. If God has a problem with them, He's the one true judge. HE will deal with them in His time.



TorchHeart -> RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? (8/30/2008 9:45:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

If Barry is really a Christian why didn't he seek out his many half-brothers and sisters and help them out of their poverty?

1 Tim 5:8 (ESV) 8But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Guess he reads the Liberatiion Theology version that states the government is to provide for the family



As a Christian, is there anything you could've or should've done in accordance with the Bible that you didn't?

EDIT: I should point out that I'm not stating this to be critical of you, colliefan, but rather just to illustrate that ALL of us are guilty of things like that. Myself, included.



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