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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 9:43:13 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 869
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer Given that Black Liberation Theology, an even more radical form of Liberation Theology, is denounced by high profile Christian pastors, such as Rick Warren (I recall him saying both Liberation Theology and Black Liberation Theology are wrong on the Sean Hannity show interview this week...not that I like Hannity..he's a hatemonger to me), can we assume that Barrack Obama's faith is also wrong and not Christian? Who defines Christian? High-profile pastors? Jeremiah Wright is a pretty high-profile pastor. quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery torchheart, he believes that abortion is good. He believes it should be legal. I don't think he ever said it was good.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 9:45:01 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa Obama went to that church for 20 years! Theres no way on Earth a person can go to a church for 20 years and not have any idea what they stand for. Obama lied to everyone. And they believed him. I think the only reason Obama is saying hes a Christian is because he thinks it will sway more people to vote for him. Well im not being fooled. His true colors are starting to blind me. The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler, is NOT a Truly Christian. McCain is. In fact, democrats are NOT Truly Christians and Republicans are. So it is written, so it shall be. Can we move on now? Or do we need 10 more threads, asking the same question in different ways, to hammer this point in? - Julius Just a plain ol' Christian This thread is about is he a Christian so if you dont wanna discuss it then you probably shouldnt. _________________________ Btw if anyone would tell me what kind of a Christian dosent believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation...id like to know. Because Obama dosent believe its the only way. He thinks that people go to Heaven if they dont believe in Him at all. Is that a Christian? NOPE.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 9:53:24 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa Obama went to that church for 20 years! Theres no way on Earth a person can go to a church for 20 years and not have any idea what they stand for. Obama lied to everyone. And they believed him. I think the only reason Obama is saying hes a Christian is because he thinks it will sway more people to vote for him. Well im not being fooled. His true colors are starting to blind me. The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler, is NOT a Truly Christian. McCain is. In fact, democrats are NOT Truly Christians and Republicans are. So it is written, so it shall be. Can we move on now? Or do we need 10 more threads, asking the same question in different ways, to hammer this point in? - Julius Just a plain ol' Christian This thread is about is he a Christian so if you dont wanna discuss it then you probably shouldnt. _________________________ Btw if anyone would tell me what kind of a Christian dosent believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation...id like to know. Because Obama dosent believe its the only way. He thinks that people go to Heaven if they dont believe in Him at all. Is that a Christian? NOPE. Excuse me but this thread is about him being a "Truly Christian." He, just like I, said he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. But according to many of the good people here, that doesn't make him a Truly Christian. In order to be a Truly Christian, you must be a republican. You must have a thorough understanding and acceptance of your interpretation of scripture and you must go to the right church that doesn't meanmouth white people, America, Elvis, and all other things good and pure. I'm just a plain ol' Christian, and as far as I can tell, so is The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler. - Julius
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 10:05:08 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa Obama went to that church for 20 years! Theres no way on Earth a person can go to a church for 20 years and not have any idea what they stand for. Obama lied to everyone. And they believed him. I think the only reason Obama is saying hes a Christian is because he thinks it will sway more people to vote for him. Well im not being fooled. His true colors are starting to blind me. The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler, is NOT a Truly Christian. McCain is. In fact, democrats are NOT Truly Christians and Republicans are. So it is written, so it shall be. Can we move on now? Or do we need 10 more threads, asking the same question in different ways, to hammer this point in? - Julius Just a plain ol' Christian This thread is about is he a Christian so if you dont wanna discuss it then you probably shouldnt. _________________________ Btw if anyone would tell me what kind of a Christian dosent believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation...id like to know. Because Obama dosent believe its the only way. He thinks that people go to Heaven if they dont believe in Him at all. Is that a Christian? NOPE. Excuse me but this thread is about him being a "Truly Christian." He, just like I, said he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. But according to many of the good people here, that doesn't make him a Truly Christian. In order to be a Truly Christian, you must be a republican. You must have a thorough understanding and acceptance of your interpretation of scripture and you must go to the right church that doesn't meanmouth white people, America, Elvis, and all other things good and pure. I'm just a plain ol' Christian, and as far as I can tell, so is The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler. - Julius Do you think ur funny?
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 10:10:00 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa Obama went to that church for 20 years! Theres no way on Earth a person can go to a church for 20 years and not have any idea what they stand for. Obama lied to everyone. And they believed him. I think the only reason Obama is saying hes a Christian is because he thinks it will sway more people to vote for him. Well im not being fooled. His true colors are starting to blind me. The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler, is NOT a Truly Christian. McCain is. In fact, democrats are NOT Truly Christians and Republicans are. So it is written, so it shall be. Can we move on now? Or do we need 10 more threads, asking the same question in different ways, to hammer this point in? - Julius Just a plain ol' Christian This thread is about is he a Christian so if you dont wanna discuss it then you probably shouldnt. _________________________ Btw if anyone would tell me what kind of a Christian dosent believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation...id like to know. Because Obama dosent believe its the only way. He thinks that people go to Heaven if they dont believe in Him at all. Is that a Christian? NOPE. Excuse me but this thread is about him being a "Truly Christian." He, just like I, said he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. But according to many of the good people here, that doesn't make him a Truly Christian. In order to be a Truly Christian, you must be a republican. You must have a thorough understanding and acceptance of your interpretation of scripture and you must go to the right church that doesn't meanmouth white people, America, Elvis, and all other things good and pure. I'm just a plain ol' Christian, and as far as I can tell, so is The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler. - Julius Do you think ur funny? You're the one with the jokes. How many gallons of gasoline did they collect again? lol,lol,lol yuk yuk - Julius
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 10:16:04 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa Obama went to that church for 20 years! Theres no way on Earth a person can go to a church for 20 years and not have any idea what they stand for. Obama lied to everyone. And they believed him. I think the only reason Obama is saying hes a Christian is because he thinks it will sway more people to vote for him. Well im not being fooled. His true colors are starting to blind me. The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler, is NOT a Truly Christian. McCain is. In fact, democrats are NOT Truly Christians and Republicans are. So it is written, so it shall be. Can we move on now? Or do we need 10 more threads, asking the same question in different ways, to hammer this point in? - Julius Just a plain ol' Christian This thread is about is he a Christian so if you dont wanna discuss it then you probably shouldnt. _________________________ Btw if anyone would tell me what kind of a Christian dosent believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation...id like to know. Because Obama dosent believe its the only way. He thinks that people go to Heaven if they dont believe in Him at all. Is that a Christian? NOPE. Excuse me but this thread is about him being a "Truly Christian." He, just like I, said he accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. But according to many of the good people here, that doesn't make him a Truly Christian. In order to be a Truly Christian, you must be a republican. You must have a thorough understanding and acceptance of your interpretation of scripture and you must go to the right church that doesn't meanmouth white people, America, Elvis, and all other things good and pure. I'm just a plain ol' Christian, and as far as I can tell, so is The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler. - Julius Do you think ur funny? You're the one with the jokes. How many gallons of gasoline did they collect again? lol,lol,lol yuk yuk - Julius A gallon It really warms my heart to see that you remember what i write. lol
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 11:49:38 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1310
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201 So now we've invented a new category of Christian. The "Truly Christian". The Messiah B. Hussein O. The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler is NOT a Truly Christian even though he said he was because he doesn't act like one because he's a democrat, and McCain, who said he's not "born again" and has never been baptised and doesn't believe it's necessary, IS a Truly Christian cause he's a republican. Case closed. Bottom line is, ALL pro-life, anti-gay Republicans are Truly Christian, even though some may deny it or may not know it, and ALL pro-choice, pro-gay rights democrats are NOT Truly Christians, even if they've accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. Oh yeah, and if a church say's something negative about America, or about white people or the republican party, that church is NOT a Truly Christian church and if one attends that church, they're NOT Truly Christians either. All these new rules will be included in the 67th book of the bible, the Book of Gop. This Book goes to press prior to November 4th, to give some of us plain ol' non-Truly Christians, a chance to repent and vote for Truly Christian republicans. - Julius What was taught at Obama's church, endorsement of sodomy, cooperation with baby killers, teaching children profanity from the pulpit, dividing American by lying about AIDS, is not Christianity.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 11:54:30 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 869
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I have to say, any time I see the word "truly" applied to a group with such an amazing amount of internal diversity as Christians, I'm reminded of the no true Scotsman fallacy.
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RE: Who's Faith Is Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 11:55:19 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1310
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70 quote:
can we assume that Barrack Obama's faith is also wrong and not Christian? Only God has that power. Can we assume that those who stay at Jerry Falwell's church after he claimed one of the teletubbies was gay or those who stay at Pat Robertson's church after he claimed 9-11 was God's punishment on America because of it allows abortions and gay rights are also wrong and not Christian? Only God sees into a person's heart and knows whether or not their profession of faith is genuine or not. As I've said many times before, ALL our presidential candidates as well as our current and previous presidents all CLAIM to be Christian. Most of the posters on this board CLAIM to be Christians. Is there unity among this message board or unity in the believe that both Bush's, the Clintons, Jimmy Carter, Obama and McCain all share the same faith? IMO it's a dangerous thing to play God and assume that the person you disagree with politically is bound for the fires of hell. Remember that the scriptures teach us that WE will be judged in the same manner as we judge others. After all these years you're still clinging to the myth that Falwell invented the notion of a homosexual teletubby. The lavender teletubby was a homosexual symbol long before Falwell's magazine picked up on it. It was written about in multiple news sources.
< Message edited by ljmac -- 8/31/2008 12:15:13 PM >
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 4:05:47 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 550
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quote:
Oh i get it! So those that say things totally unrelated to the bible are destined for Heaven? Right? So, let me ask you Teresa, have you followed Obama or Rev. Wright or whomever else you believe doesn't meet your standard of who is or isn't a Christian throught their lives to hear what they say on a daily basis and see what they do from day to day? Have God given you the ability to see into a person's heart and see what is being said for political gain and what comes from the heart? It amazes me how many people who profess to be Christians and still believe that support for an ungodly war will be judged less harshly than believing a woman should have the say over her body (even if you disagree with her say) or those who believe that support for a candidate who uses their faith as a political ploy will be judged differently than those who don't equate homosexual immorality as a greater sin than heterosexual immorality. “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged. “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye. Matthew 7:1-5 You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind and a light for people who are lost in darkness. You think you can instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God. For you are certain that God’s law gives you complete knowledge and truth. Well then, if you teach others, why don’t you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you commit adultery? You condemn idolatry, but do you use items stolen from pagan temples? You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. No wonder the Scriptures say, “The Gentiles blaspheme the name of God because of you.” Romans 2:19-24
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May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 4:16:40 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1968
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac Barak Obama wants it legal to suck the brains out of babies during birth, way past the time any nitwit thinks the baby might not be human. He is a sick man. Wow. That's an OUTSTANDINGLY bold statement. You have proof of this where? quote:
What was taught at Obama's church, endorsement of sodomy, cooperation with baby killers, teaching children profanity from the pulpit, dividing American by lying about AIDS, is not Christianity. Again, outstandingly bold. If this was taught in this church of Obama's, I would love to see proof of it.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 8/31/2008 4:28:43 PM >
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 4:20:52 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1968
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa There are no bigger sins than others, unless a person dosent believe in God altogether. *APPLAUDS!!!!* Thank you, Thessa, for saying this.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 4:25:01 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1968
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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I posted this in one other forum, and I'm posting it here because I think a lot of us need to read it. http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Politics-Right-Wrong-Doesnt/dp/0060834471/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220213162&sr=1-1 Its called "God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong, and the Left Doesn't Get It" by Jim Wallice, and its a very frank look at both the Republican and Democratic parties, and how they traditionally view religion and use it in their political agendas. Such as how one side has tried to use religion to polarize people, while the other side has basically just ignored religion altogether. I found it to be very well balanced as it critcizes and commends BOTH sides for their uses of God and religion. It also does a good job of showing how people who maybe don't believe the same thing as you(regarding such things as abortion, civil rights, the war in Iraq, poverty, capital punishment, etc.) can vote for someone you don't agree with, and still call themselves a Christian. Even if you read this book and then discard it in your garbage as pure bunk, I just urge you all to read it. The author, himself, is a Minister, so He's not out to bash Christ, Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. Honestly, when I read it, he's just a man of God who wants this country to come back together after almost 20 years of us being driven apart by selfish politicians on both sides of the asile.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 4:38:14 PM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 256
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart I posted this in one other forum, and I'm posting it here because I think a lot of us need to read it. http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Politics-Right-Wrong-Doesnt/dp/0060834471/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220213162&sr=1-1 Its called "God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong, and the Left Doesn't Get It" by Jim Wallice, and its a very frank look at both the Republican and Democratic parties, and how they traditionally view religion and use it in their political agendas. Such as how one side has tried to use religion to polarize people, while the other side has basically just ignored religion altogether. I found it to be very well balanced as it critcizes and commends BOTH sides for their uses of God and religion. It also does a good job of showing how people who maybe don't believe the same thing as you(regarding such things as abortion, civil rights, the war in Iraq, poverty, capital punishment, etc.) can vote for someone you don't agree with, and still call themselves a Christian. Even if you read this book and then discard it in your garbage as pure bunk, I just urge you all to read it. The author, himself, is a Minister, so He's not out to bash Christ, Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. Honestly, when I read it, he's just a man of God who wants this country to come back together after almost 20 years of us being driven apart by selfish politicians on both sides of the asile. I have seen that book a few times and I had planned to pick it up. Even though this is a little off the subject, I also believe there is something wrong with both sides. All they are doing is dividing the masses which is exactly what satan wants. It's taking our focus off of God and putting it on the men/women we want in office. It's like we have more faith in these political figures and the party's they represent than we do in God.
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"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ." True colors are being revealed
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 4:44:15 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1968
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4 quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart I posted this in one other forum, and I'm posting it here because I think a lot of us need to read it. http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Politics-Right-Wrong-Doesnt/dp/0060834471/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220213162&sr=1-1 Its called "God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong, and the Left Doesn't Get It" by Jim Wallice, and its a very frank look at both the Republican and Democratic parties, and how they traditionally view religion and use it in their political agendas. Such as how one side has tried to use religion to polarize people, while the other side has basically just ignored religion altogether. I found it to be very well balanced as it critcizes and commends BOTH sides for their uses of God and religion. It also does a good job of showing how people who maybe don't believe the same thing as you(regarding such things as abortion, civil rights, the war in Iraq, poverty, capital punishment, etc.) can vote for someone you don't agree with, and still call themselves a Christian. Even if you read this book and then discard it in your garbage as pure bunk, I just urge you all to read it. The author, himself, is a Minister, so He's not out to bash Christ, Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. Honestly, when I read it, he's just a man of God who wants this country to come back together after almost 20 years of us being driven apart by selfish politicians on both sides of the asile. I have seen that book a few times and I had planned to pick it up. Even though this is a little off the subject, I also believe there is something wrong with both sides. All they are doing is dividing the masses which is exactly what satan wants. It's taking our focus off of God and putting it on the men/women we want in office. It's like we have more faith in these political figures and the party's they represent than we do in God. *CRIES* YES! YES! YES! YOU'VE GOT IT!!!!!! Thank you! From the bottom of my heart, thank you and God bless you!!!
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 5:35:22 PM
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chrisovery
Posts: 147
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saved9201, the word of god does state that there are going to be many people that are going to come and claim jesus but they are not going to be nothing but wolves in sheeps clothing. i have met many people claim that they are and they are sleeping with their brothers wife or their sisters husband. the bible states that we walk in newness of life. huangshan i have never seen anyone that has truly accepted jesus christ as their lord and savior want any kind of murder done. this is a huge compromise in who jesus christ is. think of it this way. he had every reason to kill off the whole world yet he died himself for the whole world.
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It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 5:38:04 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisovery saved9201, the word of god does state that there are going to be many people that are going to come and claim jesus but they are not going to be nothing but wolves in sheeps clothing. i have met many people claim that they are and they are sleeping with their brothers wife or their sisters husband. the bible states that we walk in newness of life. I agree. And your point is....? - Julius
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 5:45:29 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 6920
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart Therefore, even if he DOES follow and worship Christ and believe in many other things that other Christians do, then there's no way he can be a Christian, or saved by Christ himself. When he continues to display an ungodly lifestyle by supporting such things that God hates, then, no, there's no way he can lead a sincere Christian lifestyle. You can't follow Christ and promote what He is against. That's dangling on both sides of the fence. You're either on one side or you're not. Stop making excuses. The Bible says hate what is evil and cling to what is good. Obama says homosexuality is not immorality. The Bible says it is. I'd rather believe a truthful God than a deceitful politician, but that's just me.
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The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 5:47:29 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1017
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace I know it is sad. Most politicians are universalist even Bush is. I saw an interview with him where he said all religions worship the same God we all just have different paths to get to him, I was like WHAT!!! It is just the politically correct thing to be. It is sad a thing. But I still would prefer Bush over Obama or even Mcain over Obama due to the abortion stand, gay-marriage stance, and some other moral issues. I agree with most of what you say but I must correct one word... "universalist" does NOT mean all religions worship the same God... that is "Inclusivist" - which still leaves room for eternal punishment. "Universalism" basically says all people eventually go to heaven.
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 6:24:09 PM
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FatherKnowsBest
Posts: 72
Joined: 9/10/2005
From: Sandpoint, ID
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B. Hussein O. is an absolute moron. He despises the Bible though claims to be a Christian. Check out his own words: www.phforamerica.com
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 7:46:23 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1013
Joined: 4/14/2005
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Is your faith truly Christian?
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RE: Is Obama's Faith Truly Christian? - 8/31/2008 8:03:29 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1013
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quote:
B. Hussein O. is an absolute moron. He despises the Bible though claims to be a Christian. Check out his own words: www.phforamerica.com Obama was not "mocking" the books of the Old Testament or the Sermon of the Mount as this video alleges (and any body who watched Obama's whole speech would understand this)...but I guess so long as this one is dissing the wicked Obama...it's ok to lie and misrepresent. Here is what he said: quote:
Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers. And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let's read our bibles. Folks haven't been reading their bibles. And Obama's statement that our own defense department would not survive the application of the Sermon on the Mount is a valid point of theological discussion. You may not agree, but there are many anabaptist denominations who take the words literally....
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