RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities out of the marriage bed? Ministers- teachers
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/27/2008 6:58:39 PM
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Fledgling
Posts: 71
Joined: 8/11/2008
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quote:
I have to disagree with you on the point that we shouldn't thoroughly warn people. Even if it seems insensitive. Remember that Apostle Paul passionately warned the carnal group of people in the Corinthian church that they were at risk of eternal condemnation.
quote:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Does this mean that if you divorce and remarry that you are an adulterer and will not be able to go to heaven?
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/27/2008 9:08:57 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11436
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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quote:
Does this mean that if you divorce and remarry that you are an adulterer and will not be able to go to heaven?
That is a question for THIS THREAD.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/31/2008 7:23:17 PM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
Actually, the Apostle Paul specifically says to the Corinthians that when he first was among them, he had determined to know nothing, save Christ, and him crucified.
On the flip side of that, he didn't chastise, condemn, warn, or anything else when they were brand new. He knew Christ, and him crucified. That's it. He taught them the basic gospel, not a laundry list of dos and don'ts.
I have to disagree with you on that. What was Apostle Paul saying in his letter to the Corinthians in 1Corinthians 2:1-5? He was contrasting the state that the Church was right at the time he was writing to them to what he left. What he was saying was that he didn't come in appearance, (Oration - that the Greeks respected) but in the preaching of the Gospel.
In preaching Christ crucified, it bids the question: Why was Christ Crucified? He would have had to tell them that it was for their sins. Which will bid another question. What is sin? He would have to tell them whatever contradicts the will/law of God. Then another question, what is the will/law of God? He would have hade to give them the Law of Moses (at least the righteous requirement of it). This is because they were gentiles who don't know the law of God, given through Moses. Therefore to bring conviction and the knowledge of sin, he would have had to preach the Law of God to them. This will show them that they are enemies of God, His wrath abides unpon them and they need His forgiveness and grace. We see the example of this in the Apostles' preaching throughout the book of Acts. They brought conviction by the power of the Holy Ghost and they showed the way by which the people could be justified (Absolute Faith in Jesus Christ and allowing Him to be Lord).
At the risk of you calling me condescending again, I have to quote the scriptures to you: Acts2:14-38, Acts 3:11-19, Acts 17:22-32, Acts 24:22-25, etc...
Focus on the following
quote:
Acts 17:22-32
Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.”
Look at what Paul did there, he talked of God's grace and justice together. God overlooking sins (because Jesus paid for it) and now because of His payment for sin Jesus Commands us all to repent. Which He has a right to do, even without paying for sins, because He gave us life. If you call Jesus Lord, you will do what He tells you, at least desire to do it (then start on the path of doing it), not arguing about it. This is exactly what Jesus is saying in Matthew 7:21-23
Look at a second passage, Acts 24:24-25
quote:
24 And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25 Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, “Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.”
In this situation, Paul reasoned with a person, who doesn't even profess faith in Jesus Christ, about righteousness, self-control and God's eternal Judgment. He pushed it so hard that Felix was Afraid. But He was not willing to submit to the will of God.
Now you are trying to claim that Apostle Paul will not talk to people that he spent a year and a half with about the need for repentance? I don't think so.
Take a look at what he wrote to the church located in Roman which he didn't plant nor have even seen anyone of them in Romans. He wrote a very long letter that one can call the whole Gospel. In the first three chapters he laid the foundation for salvation (Justification by Faith). The Following Chapters, till middle Chapter 8 He talked about the struggles of Christians with sin and the need to repent regardless. After that he said the following:
quote:
Romans 8:12-14
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
AND
Romans 12: 1-2
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Which is followed by chapters that expounded on the idea. This is what He said to a group of people , he has never met, and you wanna tell me that he wouldn't say more to people he spent at least one and a half years with? I seriously doubt that.
Also, Church at Corinth knew exactly what sin was and that they are to not engage in it. But some of them engaged in it. So, Apostle Paul spoke with authority to them that people are to repent. Now, take a look at what he said about the man that was committing sexual immorality in 1 Corinthians 5. He said that they needed to mourn over him and their sins, kick that guy out of the church (so that he may repent and be saved), He told them to not associate with a so called Christian who is in perpetual sin, and He called that Guy "the evil person".
When it comes to warning, he (Paul) warned them (Corinthians) thoroughly in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Corinthians 10: 1-13. I believe these warning, about their eternal destiny, were a reiteration of what he had previously said and not the first time he was saying them. In chapter 10 he even warned the ones that stand against careless laxity (we also can fall-away).
quote:
Theo-Minor said
Virtue comes from God, not us. If someone feels, via conviction from the Holy Spirit, that what they are doing is wrong, it is up to God to bring about the change. Outside of that, as Paul also says, why should someone else be judged by your conscience? We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give an account of ourselves.
-Yes virtue comes from God (by ourselves we can do nothing), but our Lord Jesus Christ, John the baptist and the apostles (acts 8:19-23 and numerous others) showed us by example that we are to speak the "truth-in-love" to those who are going astray. This causes us to come to God in humility ans say, "God help me to please you."
The only place where Paul talked about conscience was when he was talking about eating food sold at the market (sacrificed to idol or not). He never said that people can not tell a person who may not be on the path that they need to check and see if they are on the path to salvation. On the contrary he said the following:
quote:
2 Corinthians 5:10-11
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
[Edited by moderator - TOS 9]
< Message edited by kingdele -- 11/1/2008 2:35:13 AM >
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/1/2008 2:08:48 AM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
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Let me restate what I stated in my last post and was deleted by the Moderator this way. I wish that we will all let our Christianity be influence more by the model that God left for us in the Bible (The Church that Jesus Left on this earth). I believe that it is better than modern-day Christianity.
I used to think that the modern model was better too. The first time I read the book of Acts, I thought why did they have to be so aggressive with and direct in their witnessing. I also thought that Steven didn't have to say what he said that caused him to be stoned. I thought this way until I got more mature in the faith and read more of the Bible. They were only following the example of the Prophets of old, John the Baptist and most of all the Lord Jesus Christ.
So, if we are truly saved, wanting God to use us to do similar exploits and bear fruits that will abide (not people who will come-as they are and stay as they are or fade away). We have no choice but to follow their example and do what has been shown to be the right way.
< Message edited by kingdele -- 11/1/2008 7:21:43 PM >
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/1/2008 4:38:32 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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I was referring to Paul's approach prior to his letter to the Corinthians. But whatever.
I appreciate the time you took to write all that you wrote, but I didn't read it. It was too long of a post, and I just didn't feel like taking the effort. It will lead to more arguing, and I don't really care to continue.
Thanks anyway, though.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/1/2008 7:06:46 PM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
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I appreciate what you said and it is very very mature.
I think what happens is that at times, I need to find a balance between speaking the truth and "doing it in love". As the old saying goes, "it’s not what he said, but how he said it."
I recently experienced a Christian-brother criticizing me for not witnessing as he expected me to. His approach was wrong, because he wasn't willing to listen to what I was saying and he questioned my salvation. The way he spoke was what bothered me, not so much what he said. Questioning my salvation didn't bother me too much, because at times when I sin, I question whether I had truly come to know Him (Jesus). But the following two sayings preserve me in the path of wanting to please Him:
quote:
thinking I may not be saved, when I truly am saved, does not keep me from Heaven, But thinking I am saved when I truly am not, will keep definitely from heaven
This keeps me praying this almost every day, "Lord I believe I am saved, because by your grace you have been bringing me to repentance and Faith in Jesus Christ. But if I am like some of those who come and then depart or like some of the goats amongst the sheep, Lord please Regenerate (Change) me. If this is all fake and emotional only, Lord please start and finish a real abiding work in me. Please do it now...."
Another thing that keep me going are the words that the Old Evangelists used to preach. They will say something like this:
quote:
You need to have faith in His Son (Jesus), whether He saves you or not.
You need to repent, whether He saves you or not.
You need to serve Him, whether He saves you or casts you into eternal Hell.
You need to love Him, whether He saves you or Torments you forever because of your sins.
You need to obey Him, whether He saves you or His wrath over sins fall on you, forever.
Why?
Because He is worthy. He gave us life and breath. He has been infinitely good to us, but what we have done is repay is kindness with rebellion.
But I've got good news. He has promised forgiveness, eternal life and glory to those who have faith in Christ and yield to His lordship.
So, whenever I read a post that I disagree with, maybe I need to just cool off for a couple of days and think of how to say thing and express my concerns in a way that will not seem condemning but with a lot of love and grace.
However the truth still must be spoken. Ephesians 4:15 states
quote:
but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ
What I get from this is that grace and love without Truth is wickedness because it causes people to continue on the path that may cause them to be condemned to Hell. But Truth without grace and Love is wickedness too because it may cause people to feel condemned and being judged so they will resist what was said. Both will passively cause people to go to hell.
< Message edited by kingdele -- 11/1/2008 10:52:49 PM >
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/1/2008 11:53:56 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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Then I think you've finally gotten the point I was trying to make. It wasn't so much about instructing, but about the method. The goal, whether witnessing or discipling, is to stengthen, encourage, educate, and inspire people to a good, quality relationship with Jesus Christ. Even if that means omitting things temporarily until they are mature enough to receive it. If the outcome you bring about instead is to discourage, weaken, condescend, and drive people away from that quality relationship, then something is wrong. Although the good intentions are there, bad results are bad results.
That's why you add temperance to knowledge. You have to have the wisdom to do precisely what you said. Step back and think before you speak. Solomon is not shy about which one speaks hastily, the wise man or the fool. The wise man is quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to wrath.
Good post.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/2/2008 2:34:51 PM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
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The only thing that I will admit to doing wrong is the way I said it. Not necessarily what I said. If you read that long post, I showed that Apostle Paul didn't omit the truth when speaking to people. I think at times what I say in the way I say it might seem condescending or uncaring. But I will seek God more and ask Him to show me how to "speak the truth in love."
The post I made about Lufia, I made it right after reading what she was saying and I was like: "What is this person saying". I personally don't believe in skipping anything (temporarily or permanently), I think many pastors have fallen into that trap and they never get to telling people the truth, becaue they will never be able to bare it. This is my philosophy, speak the truth once in a loving manner and let it be.
So now, whether you disagree or not, I will let it be.
< Message edited by kingdele -- 11/3/2008 5:35:15 PM >
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/4/2008 6:12:18 AM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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I have to agree with you on the Pastor issue. In a manner of speaking, they have to feed an entire audience, so everyone is eating off the same plate. If they serve only milk, everyone is able to receive the message. If they serve meat, only the mature will understand. So they oft' times end up serving a never-ending milky diet to the whole congregation to avoid over feeding the babes. Since there are always new babes, the cycle continues indefinitely.
Unfortunately, that leads to stagnant growth. Those who are ready for more don't get it unless they seek it independently (which I personally think they should do anyway).
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/18/2008 11:10:30 AM
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blessed27
Posts: 16
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Non of what I wrote and ask about was meant to be about same gender.. unions.
I apologize if some thought it was- somehow.
It was just ask so I could find more SCRIPTURES on morality about dating and morality involving relationships.
I do not want to ever mislead anyone. I have many grandchildren and children and they have friends and I have friends and I would advise them or anyone to turn to the scriptures if or when I do talk to them about any of this.
I am a married lady with the same husband for over 20 years.
I study the Bible weekly and daily but I am always learning. I belong to a Bible study group and we often have discussions about many things.
The only reason I ask this question originally was for Bible study so I can find more scripture.
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/18/2008 1:29:15 PM
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ChristFollower21
Posts: 52
Joined: 11/18/2008
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Fornication is a sin and he makes that clear, its even one of the commandments. God means what he says, why he say to save yourself for marraiage if it wasnt a sin.
I Thessalonians 4:3-5, TLB. "For God wants you to be holy and pure and to keep clear of all sexual sin so that each of you will marry in holiness and honor—not in lustful passion as the heathen do, in their ignorance of God and his ways." Sexual sin is destructive, even when the effects are not immediately apparent.
It's in the Bible, I Corinthians 6:18, TLB. "That is why I say to run from sex sin. No other sin affects the body as this one does. When you sin this sin it is against your own body."
you can't change the Word to something you want to believe, im not saying thats what your doing just making a point.
_____________________________
Isaiah 55:8 " For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, saith the Lord"
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 11/18/2008 1:42:14 PM
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ChristFollower21
Posts: 52
Joined: 11/18/2008
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Good point you gave there, all we had to do is let her know that she has a long way to go in her walk with Christ as a new believer, it takes time, but atleast advise her that she can't continue to fornicate and encourage her to seek God in Word and prayer and things will falll in place. Always give a scripture to back up your point.
_____________________________
Isaiah 55:8 " For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, saith the Lord"
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