RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities out of the marriage bed? Ministers- teachers
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 9/9/2008 6:34:32 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4158
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
I've been born again for about 7 months now quote:
ORIGINAL: kingdele
I am sorry to have to say this, but your question exposed something that really concerns me about your christian walk. I doesn't seem like you study the bible. Hey, ease up. Lufia has only been a believer for a few months. You cannot expect a new believer to have the same understanding and grounding in the bible someone who has been reading the Word for decades has.
How much scripture did you have memorized when you were 5 months old?
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 9/10/2008 9:25:09 AM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
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Thank you DaveW. The Holy Spirit had a lot of job to do with me. I have learn a lot from HS. First He introduced me to Jesus, made me read the Bible, change my heart, showed me people i had to forgive, push me to church, Louis and i had a lot of talks about the Lord, and then He made us think about mariage.
The Lord has bless me with 2 marvelous spirituel experiences. I know that it is a sin not being married but i know God loves us Louis and i. He knows that we will get married soon. He is 'at work' in both of us.
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Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 9/10/2008 9:34:02 AM
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ta_mosquito
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That's great, Lufia!
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 9/10/2008 12:56:11 PM
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DaveW
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Amen.
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 9/12/2008 1:09:36 AM
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twincities
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Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’
Matthew 3:8
Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God.
Matthew 4:17
From then on Jesus began to preach, “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.”
I cor. 7:8 So I say to those who aren’t married and to widows—it’s better to stay unmarried, just as I am. 9 But if they can’t control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It’s better to marry than to burn with lust.
so yeah,, its the Word of God..
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 9/14/2008 12:08:32 AM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Hey, ease up. Lufia has only been a believer for a few months. You cannot expect a new believer to have the same understanding and grounding in the bible someone who has been reading the Word for decades has.
How much scripture did you have memorized when you were 5 months old?
DaveW, my two quotes are directed at two different people 1st Rufia and then the Blessed27 (the person who started this string). The first one is concern whether or not she is truly saved and the second is concern for her not reading the bible.
DaveW, I think you are right, that a new believer is going to be more susceptible to sin than an older one. However, I have concerns that most people have been brought into a so-called born-again experience by "saying a prayer" and not knowing that God commands absolute faith in Jesus Christ and as Lord, Jesus commands repentance (acts 17:30). I will still ask everyone reading this Posting to listen to those three messages in other. I believe in regeneration, where after being born-again you are truly changed and of course I understand that not all things will fall in place right away and we are not gonna leave all our sins at once, but we will not be proud of any remaining sins in our lives. What we will do is change our minds about them and know they are wrong, confess them, be asking God to give us the power to overcome them, and striving to obey. That is the hallmark of a true-christian according to the book of 1st John.
1) True Salvation
http://playmp3.sa-media.com/media/5220621750/5220621750.mp3
2) Justification
http://playmp3.sa-media.com/media/52206233222/52206233222.mp3
3) Regeneration
http://playmp3.sa-media.com/media/63006232159/63006232159.mp3
And concerning my second post that I asked the person making this post to make sure that she starts to familiarize herself with the scriptures, I think, I am definitely right in that. Christians must know that the days are evil and satan has put so many so-called ministers of God out there and they are deceiving many. Jesus and the rest of the scriptures warned us of these days at Matthew 24:24, 1st Timothy 4:1-2, 2Timothy 3 : 1-7, etc... Therefore in oder for us not to be easily deceived, we need to truly truly truly know what God has revealed in His word.
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/2/2008 2:46:39 AM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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There are a few things I would like to say/add to this discussion.
1. blessed27 - Jesus said (in context of evangelism) that we shouldn't worry about what we will say. The Holy Spirit will put the words in our mouths. While it's admirable to study and learn the issues you want to be able to confront (and indeed you should learn them), it sounds to me like you are trying to put together the strategy and game plan instead of letting God give you the words as the situations arise.
Just from my own personal experience, I can promise you that if you are following the Spirit's lead, you will have the right words, always. The times in the past that I have ended up getting tripped up was when I was trying to do it my own way.
In answer to your original question, since I didn't see it posted by anyone, the passage you are looking for is Matthew 5:28. Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Thus, if a man looks upon a woman and lusts after her, then he has committed adultery in his heart. The logic continues insomuch as to say that if merely looking with lust is to be considered adultery, how much more so must the actual act be considered the same? So any sexual act, by that rationale, can be considered adultery.
However, this passage is not all it appears to be due to our modern perspectives, the language barriers, and the bias that has gone into the translation. "Lust" in this instance is the identical Greek word used by Paul in Romans 13:9 when he lists several of the ten commandments. In this case, specifically, "covet."
Furthermore, Jesus specifically speaks of adultery, and it is, in fact, the topic of that particular discussion. In the social life of a first century Jew, a man who had sex with a virgin merely had a new wife (since they were allowed to have more than one). He would be required by law to take her into his house. A man who had sex with a prostitute was a fornicator. The only application to Christ's statement was to a man who had sex with another man's wife, since that was the only instance (for a man) that could be considered adultery.
In the end, what you find, in a broader, interpolated sense, is that Christ is saying that if a man looks upon another man's wife with the intent of coveting her, whether he suceeds in taking her or not, he has still committed the act of adultery in his heart by even trying to take her (since Romans 13:8-10 suggests that coveting involves doing ill to your neighbor and not merely "thinking" about something with desire).
2. DougHorton - I absolutely agree with you. There is really no such thing as sex outside of marriage. Gen. 24:67 And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife [...]. It can also be noted that "wife" is the same word as "woman" in the Hebrew and the Greek, as the word "husband" is the same word as "man" in the same. So technically speaking, a man takes a woman, and she becomes his woman, which is why there are laws speaking even to acts of rape that require a man to take a woman into his house as his "woman" or "wife" and never divorce her.
The real reason prostitution is sin is that they are already wed to the one they first laid with, so they are actually committing adultery in the act of prostitution, just as the man lying with her is lying with another man's wife. Hence, it is again adultery.
One need only look at God's reaction to Israel, and what he calls her, when she commits adultery. She's a whore. Whores and adulteresses are basically the same thing in many respects, spiritually speaking.
3. ta_mosquito - I know of no scripture in the Old Testament that pointedly states a man had to pay a bride price to be considered legitimately married. The closest I know of is Exodus 22:16-17, which says that if a man entices an unbetrothed maid and lie with her, he shall make her his wife. He is not, however, required by law to pay anything unless the father refuses to let him have her. In which case, the dowry of virgins is to be paid, contextually as a matter of property damage, since she would be theoretically ruined.
It should also be noted that the Lord was with David as he conquered his foes, though David took many wives and concubines (2 Sam. 5:13), and concubines are nothing more than live-in girlfriends that men have sex with. It wasn't until he tried to take another man's wife (Uriah's) that the Lord got angry. And God even told him that he would have given him (David) even more to prevent that one act of adultery. (2 Sam. 12:8)
4. Theophile2 - Your references mostly refer to things like rape, adultery, harlotry, incest, etc., and usually under extenuating circumstances, like a man taking his new wife for the first time and finding her already violated. None of your references say anything about one man and one woman, and what their social condition is after lying together in a dedicated relationship. Other scriptural examples suggest that they are married once they have done so.
5. DaveW - A covenant doesn't necessarily have to be before witnesses. Adam and Eve were "married," though they had no witnesses, no ceremony, no formal agreement, no brideprice, etc. She was his woman, he was her man. God's first "command" to them was to be fruitful and multiply.
God made a covenant with Abraham. There weren't any witnesses to that either that I recall (though you'll have to check me on that one).
It could also be argued that the witnesses are the people you are around every day. If a man and a woman are together, people are usually quite aware that "she's his," and "he's hers." They are witnesses of a union, and are equally aware when someone is going outside that union (cheating). In other words, it's an established union between two people that is respected and acknowledged by everyone they know.
6. kingdele - It's not good to question people's Christianity just because they haven't managed to be perfect in their daily walks. Peter teaches us to add virtue to our faith, but faith comes first. It's a learning process, and it's not going to be overnight for any of us. The person you are questioning is still a babe in their Christian walk. Give them time to "add to their faith, virtue, and to virtue, knowledge," etc. I wasn't a saint during my first six months either. But I'm still here, still going after 20 years, despite my mistakes.
To clarify for anyone reading ... I am not advocating sex before marriage, sex outside of marriage, or anything of the sort. Nevertheless, I do think it is important, just as it is with any doctrine, to be correct according to the scriptures. Sex outside of marriage is not necessarily a good thing, but the Bible never outright condemns it as sin. Rather, it gives examples of it happening throughout the old testament without comment or consequence, except in instances where something else is violated at the same time. Abraham had sex with the handmaid, but God wasn't angry about it. He was angry that Abraham didn't have faith in the promise. David had concubines, and had many children by them, but God didn't get mad until David stole another man's wife and murdered him.
Fornication, as it is used today, means sex outside of marriage. However, fornication, as it was used then, referred to prostitution, and/or the use of prostitutes.
Again, it is not outright condemned as sin, and I have seen more people backslide over this one issue than just about any other. And not because they're having sex, but because our churches today have poor young boys convinced that every time their mind strays to sex for even an instant, they are committing adultery. Next thing you know, they stop praying for forgiveness because they are ashamed to go before God with the same sin over and over. Then they start thinking that they may as well do a few more sins while they're "still dirty and unforgiven" and do other things they otherwise wouldn't have done. It progresses over time until they have so much sin unforgiven, they feel so ashamed, that they can't even face God. And they end up walking away for no reason at all, except that someone once told them that getting turned on was a sin. You might as well tell them that hunger pains are sin. They'd probably be easier to control.
In short ... be careful with this topic. It's very touchy, difficult, and dangerous if the proper facts are not presented in the proper way.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/2/2008 10:11:33 AM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
In our forums marriage will be defined as follows:
A union between a man and a woman as recognized by state and federal laws. (We do not consider same-gender unions to be marriage in our community.)
Having sex with someone of the opposite gender does not make you married. God calls it sin.
Sustained and forceful arguments to the contrary will be considered a violation of our Terms of Service and may result in further action up to and including a ban from the site.
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/2/2008 2:20:31 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1666
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessed27
I am in contact with far too many people who do not believe in God as I do. They do not study the Bible but they do go to church and I worry about them as some are family members. I am not sure they are saved. My family is very large.
That is why I ask this question. I need as much ammunition as I can get to even be able to discuss things with them. I care about them and I see their lives in jeopardy from time to time. Some of them do not read the Bible at all. It is very dificult to witness to them or advise them. Please pray for me as I need as much ammunition against Satan as I can get in order to be a good Christian friend to them.
Their answers lie in the word and the Bible and I have stated this to them many times. But they prefer all too many times to listen to the world and their friends in the world.
This is a reason why one should not takes such positions as have been proposed. One may live a covetious life and never see any significant negative effects of doing so or may never do harm to others. However, this is the exception that proves the rule. Such is the case with fornication. It is the rare person who lives such a life without effecting oneself or ones environment.
We are called to be a peculiar people and the salt of the earth. If the salt has lost it's savor, what good is it. It does add sodium to ones diet, but it does nothing to make bland meat palitable. Therefore, doing something that provides personal benefit, but fails to improve our bland society is of little used to the Creator, in my opinion.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/7/2008 4:24:15 AM
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blessed27
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Theo- You are exactly right about the Holy Spirit's words being there when we need them. Thank you for that reminder. I just want to be there when they ask and they ask me a lot of questions. And I have also in the past years tripped at times when I tried to do things my way instead of God's. I know what you mean there.
Bluethread- My desire is to witness with God's words and with his guidance and not with my words and ways.
I believe marriage is to be treated with dignity and reverence and respect.
I look around and do not judge but many these days just don't seem to have respect for marriage vows.
I have been married to the same man for over 21 years. We will stay married until God calls one of us to heaven:)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/7/2008 4:45:55 AM
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blessed27
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Theo- I too have seen far too many young ones/teens usually- leave the church because they slipped up and felt dirty after and felt too ashamed because they perhaps misconstrued their understanding of how merciful God is if only they ask for forgiveness and could realize they can begin agin. And it is usually because of their lack of Biblical knowledge.
It is sad when it happens because sometimes they don't return for years.
If only someone had talked to them but they don't always talk to anyone about such delicate things.
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/8/2008 3:20:18 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
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To clarify a few things, for the record ...
I never said or suggested that same sex unions were considered marriage. God says that if a man lies with another man, it is an abomination. Paul clarifies the same for both men and women, saying that it is unnatural (Rom. 1:24-27). If we define marriage according to State and Federal laws, same sex marriages (in some states) are perfectly viable, which position I would have to heartily disagree with (though I recognize that you clarified yourself on that matter).
Secondly, I was also very clear that I do not encourage sex outside of the legal institution of marriage as it is recognized by the moral majority. Based on the scriptures and the examples contained therein, I retain my own opinion of what constitutes marriage between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. Nevertheless, I think that in today's world, such a position in practice tends to be an excuse for promiscuity more often than not. If the couple really believes they are married, then let them do it before witnesses in the time-honored fashion. Anyone who refuses to do so is just fornicating. Subconsciously, they want to retain that legal right to break it off without consequence.
Lastly, as it concerns marriage being defined by State and Federal laws, here in South Carolina (the "Bible Belt"), if a man and a woman share the same roof for more than thirty days, they are considered common-law married according to State law. They can even file a tax return together as "married" (which is recognized by the Federal government), and would have to get a legal divorce to file single again. They say they're married, and so they are in the eyes of the State.
In my opinion, it might be better to define marriage according to the Bible rather than the laws of man. In some states, the law currently recognizes same sex marriages.
It is not my goal with this post to carry on, encourage, provoke, or otherwise "sustain" a "forceful" argument to the tune of "people having sex are married," which is what I assume you mean. If you say that marriage in this forum is to be considered walking down the isle and saying vows in front of witnesses and a certified justice of the peace (which is what I gather your actual intent was), then so be it. I'll just drop the issue. I hadn't intended to make another post on this topic anyway.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/12/2008 5:44:18 AM
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lightbeamrider
Posts: 138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessed27
Theo- I too have seen far too many young ones/teens usually- leave the church because they slipped up and felt dirty after and felt too ashamed because they perhaps misconstrued their understanding of how merciful God is if only they ask for forgiveness and could realize they can begin agin. And it is usually because of their lack of Biblical knowledge.
It is sad when it happens because sometimes they don't return for years.
If only someone had talked to them but they don't always talk to anyone about such delicate things.
Once a 16 yr old female virgin Christian confided in me she was having struggles with her sexuality in ways i will not explicitly mention here. I was totally taken aback at this little exchange (and i think i know so much?) she would take the time to confide in me such an intimate detail of her walk with Christ along with who she is as a human being. While i attempted to keep my composure i was thinking i should not be the one to discuss these things with her absent her parents knowledge. It could open up a whole huge can of worms. Basically i told her we are all sexual beings, it is part of who we are and beyond that she should seek council elsewhere because i simply could not say much more absent her parents knowledge. Keep in mind in ancient cultures females were married off very young. Now in our sex obsessed culture we expect christian females to get thru college and remain a virgin which puts her at about 22 yrs old. Well as we all know many do not make it, to say the least. She ended up making herself accountable to other Christians and went off to college. The point being, adult men do not talk to other people's children about such delicate things for good reason. People these days are very protective of their children for good reason, also.
I remember being corrected by Churchmen growing up and back then it was considered, pretty much, the norm. Once i had my hat on in church and a churchman came up to me from behind, removed my hat and put it in my lap. The Churchman had a stern look on his face and i got the message. My mother later told me i should remove my hat in church. She did not jump up and get in the man's face and say keep your hands off my child as would be the case today. Things were different back in the 60s. Women wore modest dresses and were veiled and submitted to the authority of men far more then they do now. When attending church, young boys behaved. They kept their mouth shut and they did not smart off to adults. Such behavior was unthinkable to me as a child as churchmen were godlike figures. Churchmen looked out for the own children and other children as well. What happened?
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/12/2008 11:38:51 PM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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kingdele… you are being a little hard on a new Christian and your approach is just a bit legalistic. She needs your help, not your critical judgment.
_____________________________________________________________
Lufia..
Don’t get disturbed about all this advice regarding your sinning…we are all sinners and most of us have done things equal or worse than what you are describing.
The important thing is you have found Christ and the next important thing in your relationship is that your mate finds Christ as well.
God will and has forgiven you of your sexual sins in the past but you now must obey God and that means you have to change your way of living. From this stand point the advice is correct because you are still sinning in God’s eye.
If you truly belong to Christ, His Spirit will lead you away from you sinful relationship (being unmarried)…you can’t belong to Christ and continue sinning, it’s like mixing oil and water. That’s why it’s so important that the man you’re living with receives Christ also. In this way you can move to the next step and that is marriage. Believe this…if only one of you belongs to Christ, you and your relationship will suffer and this will be a part of the penalty that you will pay for your sin.
Lufia…you are just starting on your walk with God and believe me…it will be the most joyful time of your life but it is a relationship that you will need to develop. It's just like a marriage...you need to learn to please God. God will bless you in all you do but you must walk within His will for that to happen.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/15/2008 7:12:18 AM
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neuronstatic
Posts: 974
Joined: 7/14/2005
From: North Carolina!
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Lufia, first may I say "Praise the Lord, the two of you have been saved!!!!" And...
quote:
Luke 15:7
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
And now that you have entered into new life, and you came "just as you are", it is time to begin walking in newness with Christ. You already seem to have started down the first steps of this. Finding a home church is sometimes difficult, but from my perspective, absolutely necessary to make it through the challenges that lay ahead.
Yes challenges.
Satan will want you back and is quite upset that you have started this path. So when you encounter struggles, lean on Christ, study His word, and pray. Don't fall into the temptation of turning your back on Him when others attack you. And these attacks will come from your unchurched friends AND Christians.
Christians are the "walking wounded", and many there are that want to shoot all the wounded. Keep to the path, keep to Christ, even when trials come.
And one of your major challenges will now be examining your life and seeing what it is you need to change. You admit that you and your man need to marry. That is a good first step. So... just do it. 
You are newly starting out this journey, there is much to learn. May God bless your new life and I pray you and your man grow together in this journey all the more.
And to all others. Let us not forget what it was like to be young Christians. I think most of us should remember well that none are imparted with divine knowledge immediately upon salvation. We must learn and grow over time. Hence we are all working out our sanctification for the rest of your days on earth.
_____________________________
Click here for an example of God blessing a man with a second chance at marriage in a new wife.
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/23/2008 8:09:08 PM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
kingdele… you are being a little hard on a new Christian and your approach is just a bit legalistic. She needs your help, not your critical judgment.
_____________________________________________________________
Bob
Bob, I honestly don't understand your comment. I am very very very scared for her, because she might think that she is saved, when she may not be. The Bible tells us that anyone who continues to sin will not inherit the kingdom of God.
I am not saying that I am perfect or being self-righteous in asking her to "test herself to see if she is in the Faith". I was just quoting Apostle Paul in 2Corinthians 13:5. When apostle Paul went to the spoke to the Corinthian church, he didn't speak with lax gentleness (carelessness). He spoke with urgency, this is because people's eternal destinies are on the line.
If you think what I said is legalistic, why don't you read what Apostle Peter said to a man who professed Christ and was still in iniquity in Acts 8:9-22. I guess modern day Christian will say, "lay off of him he just believed in Christ." I guess that is why we have so many unregenerate people filling our churches, who don't fear God or esteem what His son did for us on the Cross.
_____________________________
Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/25/2008 12:59:24 AM
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kingdele
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This comment is to Theo-Minor
I would like to point you back to the bible in 2Corinthians 13:5, the whole book of 1st John, and countless other scriptures. They tell us to test ourselves to see whether we are in the Faith. Basically, check and see if you are truly Born-again. A person needs to check themselves to see if they are truly saved, especially when they are living in habitual sin. I check myself to see if I am in the Faith.
I know this is new to you, because modern-day "seeker-friendly" Christianity has turned something that is not a virtue into one. Basically not questioning yourself to see if you are truly saved. They tell us just say this prayer after me and you are saved, as if the prayer is a magic formula. Afterwards, they tell them to write the date that they "opened their hearts and accepted Christ down. Now, they tell such a person that he is saved and never to question their salvation even if he is living like a "goat". I submit to you that the bible doesn't say that, it say "by their fruits you will know them" (Luke 6:40-45).
If a person is living contrary to the revealed will of God (the commands of the bible) and they see nothing wrong with it, I believe they need to check themselves, to see if their hearts have been hardened or if they ever knew Him. Like someone from one of this forums said, "thinking you are not saved, when you are truly saved does not keep you from Heaven, But thinking you are saved when you truly are not, is very very bad and it keeps you from heaven". And scripture supports this just look at the following Matthew 7:22-24, Luke 13:22-28, etc.... (Note that these are the words of Jesus the "gentle redeemer")
Grant it, in the case of Lufia, she is in deep and entangled in that relationship and it will be difficult to get out. But I don't think hiding the truth of the word of God from her is right. This truth states that "no on living a life-style of sin will inherit the kingdom of God" (Gal 5:19-21, 1Cor 6:9-10, etc).
See, it is not a matter of my opinion or your opinion, it is a matter of the word of God and I think she and others (myself included) should be exhorted to depart from iniquity speedily, because her eternity depends on it.
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/26/2008 1:10:36 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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Why would any of this be new to me?
I think you misunderstand the point of what I was saying to you. No one's walk is perfect right out of the gate. Mine wasn't, yours wasn't ... no one's was. Questioning someone's Christianity because they haven't yet reached the level you have achieved stinks of ignorance.
We all start with faith, and to faith we add virtue, then knowledge, then temperance, then patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity (2 Pet. 1:3-7). It doesn't happen overnight.
Paul talks to the Corinthians with milk rather than meat, because they weren't yet able to bear it (1 Cor. 3:1-2).
In Timothy we are instructed to be gentle to all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose ourselves, if God will peradventure give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth, that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil (2 Tim. 2:24-26).
Yes, we are told to examine ourselves ... but we need a Christian life to examine before we can examine it. New Christians are still trying to put off the old man. Most of them are living the old life with a new heart, learning with each day through the Spirit how to be more virtuous.
Telling a new Christian that you are concerned about their Christian walk, in essence challenging its validity, is discouraging, and it can lead to a dreadful backslide.
I once asked similar questions to the one on this thread. The girl who brought me to the Lord said, "Don't worry about it. In time you won't want to do the things you used to do."
She was right.
Had she told me instead that I had to stop everything right then and there, cold turkey ... I might have given up. But with time and patience, and the Lord working on my heart daily, I am a different man today.
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/26/2008 4:27:52 PM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
Status: offline
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I am not saying that our walk will be perfect over night. Nor will it be absolutely perfect on this side of eternity, but we will not be habitually sinning and thinking that there is nothing wrong with it. For instance, if I am a pathological-liar and I am not seeking God to change me, I am probably not saved.
What I am saying is that the process of salvation begins with God granting us repentance (change of mid about sins), through hearing or reading the Gospel. Upon realizing how sinful we truly are and knowing that God hates sin and His wrath abides on the sinner, we turn to Jesus Christ in Faith (absolutly stop trusting in our rightesousness, ready to trade it all for Him and put our full Trust in Him). This is because even though He is angry at us over our sins, His still has abundant mercies, grace and love towards us.
Now, coming to Christ, by Faith, He commands us to repent. This is not only to change our mind, but to put a stop to the lawlessness we are doing and start doing righteousness. Look at the following scriptures:
quote:
Acts 17:30-31
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
And this is not just a superfical repentance, "I Changed my mind but I'm not gonna change my actions." It is our rebellious mindset, which cause us to be doing those actions that God hates, that God is targeting. He wants us to change our minds and also our actions. Just look at the following scriptures.
quote:
2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
The implications are that anyone who does not depart from iniquity or at the least know what is pleasing to Christ and begin on the path of doing them, does not belong to Christ.
quote:
John 8:10-11
When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[a] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
After he Justified her, he commanded her to "sin no more".
But for those who will take the grace of God as a license for sin (whether unforgiveness or others), He is going to remove His grace and condemn them. Consider the following scriptures:
Matthew 18:21-35, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatian 5:19-21
quote:
Galatian 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
< Message edited by kingdele -- 10/26/2008 11:04:57 PM >
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Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Your cross I cling.
1) True Salvation
2) Justification: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13056
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RE: Where in the Bible are veiws on physical activities... - 10/26/2008 4:42:51 PM
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kingdele
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/4/2008
Status: offline
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Now to "Theo-minor"
You are talking about yourself as if you are supposed to be the yard stick by which we measure things. I have to tell you that the word of God is the standard that we use. In addition, the person who told you not to worry about it, I believe was dead wrong. This is because in an effort to attempt to give you assurance that you are saved, she might have gotten you to be hardened in immorality that would have cause you not to inherit eternal life. I have seen a lot of this happen to a lot of people, in which a misguided person, in an attempt to comfort people actually cause them to be hardened in sin.
Your idea that one should not tell a person who is sinning that they need to repent (Change of mind, which will affect our actions more and more) stop is truly faulty and it is unbiblical. Take a look at what John the Baptist said to the people who came to him for baptism.
quote:
Luke 3:7-14
7 Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
10 So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?”
11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”
12 Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?”
13 And he said to them, “Collect no more than what is appointed for you.”
14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, “And what shall we do?”
So he said to them, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages.”
These were actually, people who were being cut to the heart and they were coming to him for encouragement, but he did not offer such premature encouragement. This is because He knew that if he did so, he could stop the work of the Holy-Spirit in their lives.
Also, Peter when he was preaching to the people on the day of Pentecost and they were convicted by the Holy-Spirit did not say, "you know, don't worry about it yet, just keep on coming to church and you may one day change your mind." Instead the book of acts recorded the following"
quote:
Acts 2: 37-38
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall rece | | |
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I am at the present time in a Bible Study church group that will cover the entire New Testament and it is our goal to complete it by around November. 
