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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 5:16:38 PM
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Sideways
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Three is a very, very normal family size here, even if you already have a boy and a girl. Four isn't considered huge, but it's getting to be a large family. Five and up is considered a big family.
I know quite a few 3 girls and then a baby boy families, but nobody really thinks negatively that kind of family size.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 5:39:52 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3123
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Homegrownkids
quote:
When a married couple knows for a fact up-front that they personally do not have the means (financially, spiritually, physically, mentally or psychologically) to properly care for/raise children or additional children...the decision should be made not to have any or not to have any more
If this is the case, then none of should of have children  We all fall short....
Okay.... I'm being extreme just to be ornery.
I'm not speaking about the normal momentary outbursts, exasperations and breakdowns that come with being a parent. Nor am I speaking of unplanned financial lapses...that's why I said, "knows for a fact up-front!"
But, you knew what I meant, and yeah, you're right, you are just being ornery! 
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 5:49:16 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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One of the things that concerns me is the emotional aspect. I have met large families that are great. Everyone is cared for physically, spiritually, and emotionally. I think that is wonderful. But I know another family that continues to have children, they are pregnant with #8, and the mother is just not really interested in mothering them. She will tell you she is just not really into the nurturing thing. She is extremely detached from them. The reason she continues to have children is because it means she is more godly than other woman. She has said this outright as well as imply it often to other women that do not have as large of families. I thank God that these children have loving father because their mother pretty much ignores them. It breaks my heart she seems only interested in them as trophies of her faithfulness. The sad thing is they are really great kids that most parents would be overjoyed to have and she misses out on knowing them.
Karen
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 6:08:24 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I never thought of that way, but you are right. I remember once coming across the 9 years old daughter who was trying to calm her 5 month old brother because, "mom just can't handle it when he cries." My stomach just fell. I soon found mom in another room happily chatting with some other woman. I just couldn't understand it.
Karen
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 7:23:18 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8789
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From: land of limbo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Bottom Line for me:
When a married couple knows for a fact up-front that they personally do not have the means (financially, spiritually, physically, mentally or psychologically) to properly care for/raise children or additional children...the decision should be made not to have any or not to have any more.
But we never can know for a fact up-front that we will be able to provide for our children.
I would agree that a family that is destitute should not attempt to have more children. I don't think anyone here has said that.
However, if you have a married couple then there is really no biblical way to absolutely prevent another child.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:04:07 PM
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bluestone
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Biblical way?
There is no Biblical way to drive a car, either.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:16:05 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8789
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The only foolproof way to prevent a pregnancy is abstinance which is not a biblical alternative for married couples.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:17:50 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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YOUR (not anyone in particular) family is too big when I have to support it whether you have 1 child or 10.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:18:21 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2550
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From: California
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quote:
However, if you have a married couple then there is really no biblical way to absolutely prevent another child.
______
I personally, don't think vasectomies and tubal ligations (sp), are unbiblical.
And they are quite effective...yes, I've heard stories when they aren't but those are few and far between..and often occur because the waiting period wansn't respected. EVERYONE I know that had had one or the other (in the marriage) hasn't had any more kids.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:22:07 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8789
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
However, if you have a married couple then there is really no biblical way to absolutely prevent another child.
______
I personally, don't think vasectomies and tubal ligations (sp), are unbiblical.
And they are quite effective...yes, I've heard stories when they aren't but those are few and far between..and often occur because the waiting period wansn't respected. EVERYONE I know that had had one or the other (in the marriage) hasn't had any more kids.
I explained myself a couple posts up. Yes, I am saying the only 100% foolproof way is abstinance.
As for surgical procedures to prevent pregnancy I do not have a problem with them. however, I do believe that some people might see them as sin. If they have to choose between the sin of tubal/vasectomy verses the "sin" of maybe needing some government assistance to get by for a while then I think a person should follow their conscience. This is different than people deliberately trying to get pregnant either just to have a bigger family or to be able to milk the system for longer.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:22:17 PM
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bluestone
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Birth Control comes in various forms, and is Just as Biblical as your microwave.
This whole line of thought, that you keep popping out kids until you drop, regardless of you ability to pay for them is rediculous and irrisponsible.
Who should pick up the tab for it when kids can't afford medical treatment, food, or shelter?
The taxpayer? Yep, of course.
Those of us who are responsible citizens pay the bills for the rest.
Do you all really think that you are above those who use birth control methods? Certainly sounds that way.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:32:08 PM
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james12-5
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I don't think anyone here has said they are better than those who don't use birth control. I believe that most of those here who don't use any sort of BC also refuse all sorts of government assistance.
I have used BC and have had a tubal. But, guess what. I planned the tubal after my 2nd child. However, she was born in a catholic hospital because that was where our insurance covered. They wouldn't do the tubal there. I was on depo when I conceived DS. I didn't plan it. However, he is here and I love him deeply and he may have saved my life. Yes there have been times when I have been on various forms of government assistance but I certainly don't plan on ever making it a lifestyle. Should I have delivered my second child in a hospital that didn't take my insurance so that I could have had a tubal after the birth of #2.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 9:40:39 PM
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Sideways
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Again, no one here is commenting on children born while the parents were attempting to prevent, or the occasional need for assistance when a family has fallen on hard times. The controversy stems from families who have a lifestyle that of debt and dependence and still choose to have more children.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 10:16:30 PM
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Homegrownkids
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quote:
Who should pick up the tab for it when kids can't afford medical treatment, food, or shelter?
The taxpayer? Yep, of course.
Those of us who are responsible citizens pay the bills for the rest.
This is for you..... THANK YOU!!!!! For being a responsible citizen! It is very much appreciated.
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God heals!
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/28/2008 11:01:22 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2453
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
The only foolproof way to prevent a pregnancy is abstinance which is not a biblical alternative for married couples.
If both husband and wife agree on it then it is.
A married couple can decide not to have sex during the fertile time of the month (rhythm method?) and it be within Biblical "guidelines".
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Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/29/2008 7:14:15 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 10SNE1?
This is NOT about the child! I have no problem telling my seventeen year old daughter not to have sex. I don't look at the cute little boy of my single mom neighbor and think " he should have never been born". This is about the behavior of adults..not the children who result from that behavior.
That's an excellent point. I think a lot of us get frustrated when we talk about limiting family size and are told "oh are you going to tell that child she should not exist?" A child of a unmarried, teenage girl is as much as a blessing and a gift from God as the child of a married couple who tried for ten years to get pregnant. Still doesn't change the realities of life.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/29/2008 7:51:34 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
One of the things that concerns me is the emotional aspect. I have met large families that are great. Everyone is cared for physically, spiritually, and emotionally. I think that is wonderful. But I know another family that continues to have children, they are pregnant with #8, and the mother is just not really interested in mothering them. She will tell you she is just not really into the nurturing thing. She is extremely detached from them. The reason she continues to have children is because it means she is more godly than other woman. She has said this outright as well as imply it often to other women that do not have as large of families.
This is very sad. She has a horrible attitude.
But what if, intead of, "She should have used birth control and not had all those children" we said "She needs an attitude change" and prayed for her?
If she had used bc, those children would not exist. Saying she should have is saying they should not exist. However, regardless of her attitude, God made each one of them, gave them a loving father, and there is still the possibility that He can change that woman's heart. It may be that those 8 children will be part of what changes her heart, who knows?
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/29/2008 7:55:58 AM
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LaurainAL
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quote:
But what if, intead of, "She should have used birth control and not had all those children" we said "She needs an attitude change" and prayed for her?
I agree with this. The past is the past and can not be changed. However, she can use bc now to limit the family size from growing any further. Again, no one is saying that these children should never have been born.
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Life Trumps Choice
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/29/2008 8:17:30 AM
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Homegrownkids
Posts: 1161
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quote:
But what if, intead of, "She should have used birth control and not had all those children" we said "She needs an attitude change" and prayed for her?
If she had used bc, those children would not exist. Saying she should have is saying they should not exist. However, regardless of her attitude, God made each one of them, gave them a loving father, and there is still the possibility that He can change that woman's heart. It may be that those 8 children will be part of what changes her heart, who knows?
I agree, Sometimes we don't see the "big picture" of what God might be doing in someone's life. Sometimes, we don't even consider it!! God has put us all into families to begin with, each of us have different walks in life and have come from different back grounds. It doesn't mean that people won't change.
quote:
YOUR (not anyone in particular) family is too big when I have to support it whether you have 1 child or 10.
Statements like this just seem so harsh to me, and I don't mean this statement in particular, there were several similar statements throughout. There is a difference between supporting a family and helping them.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/29/2008 8:28:49 AM
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landabee
Posts: 2867
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From: Central Florida
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quote:
Saying she should have is saying they should not exist.
I disagree. It is saying that perhaps they would not exist in their current situation.
That little child, should God have deemed might have been born to other parents.
Our God is bigger than us.
Those that lack responsibility and a commitment to parent their children are the ones that I think of when I think of poor choices.
As pointed out earlier: It's not up to us to mandate how many children a family should have. It is up to the parents.
But it is also up to the parents to be wise stewards, parents, providers, guides of the children that they choose to have.
Hard times befall the best of us. I honestly can say that because of divorce, the first three years of my kidlets lives, I DID receive food stamps.
But I HAD NO MORE children. Do I love my children? Yes.... In fact I loved them enough to get trained in a job to support them, get off assistance and purpose to have no more.
Emotionally as a single parent, I know that I could not "be there" emotionally for more. (As a Christian, I know that extramarital sex is out of the question...but that is beside the point)
But had I remarried earlier, MANY conversations would have taken place before the consideration of purposely conceiving/not preventing would have taken place. They would have revolved around all areas of supportive parenting that the future and current children would require.
That is the sort of thing that I think folks wish adults that refuse to parent but continue to birth should think about.
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RE: When is a family too big. - 8/29/2008 8:33:04 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
quote:
But what if, intead of, "She should have used birth control and not had all those children" we said "She needs an attitude change" and prayed for her?
I agree with this. The past is the past and can not be changed. However, she can use bc now to limit the family size from growing any further. Again, no one is saying that these children should never have been born.
I would like to repeat this, ten time over if need be. What we're talking about is the future, not the past. It would be nice if "You're saying her children should never have been born" argument was permanently tabled, because no one is saying that.
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But, certain parents should show some responsibilty in their family size. 
