|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:03:01 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
I'll remember to tell that to all my Republican friends that have lost their jobs, Don't eat until you find some more work.
Um, there's a slight difference between somebody who is working to better his condition and somebody hwo just sits back and sucks off of the government nipple without lifting a finger to help himself....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:03:16 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Mccain wants to extend the tax cuts from Bush, a policy against the poor.
Explain. It has nothing to do with the poor. The poor don't pay taxes, so how would they get a tax cut?
The poor do pay taxes, when ever they buy a pack of cigs, they pay the taxes on them. When they get tabs for their cars, there are taxes. The money in tax cuts for the rich could help the poor.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:06:39 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
If you're that poor, perhaps buying a pack of cigs isn't in your best interests, but moving right along....
I don't know exact percentages, but I do know that the "rich" who make up a very small percentage of teh population, pay most of the tax burden in this country.
As it is, I wouldn't want to make any more money than I already do simply because of the percentage I would have taken from me.
How much is enough, tracy? How much of these folks hard earned money should be taken from them by force and given to others?
I'm ignoring the obvious Marxism prevalent here because I'm sure you're already aware of it...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:07:02 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Um, there's a slight difference between somebody who is working to better his condition and somebody hwo just sits back and sucks off of the government nipple without lifting a finger to help himself....
Note again, those not working, so if they lost their jobs, they are not working.
Bear Stern employees lost their jobs, they got a 30 billion bailout, Freddie MAc, fannie mae,they are all sucking same nipple.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:09:36 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Note again, those not working, so if they lost their jobs, they are not working.
I've got news for you, it isn't that hard to find work. I've found myself suddenly unemployed before, and if you have any drive at all, you can find something that will help you pay your bills until you get back on your feet. Again, there is a marked difference between that kind of person and the one who just sits back and does nothing for themselves.
It's really impossible to have a rational conversation with you, tracy, as your distaste for this nation and everything it stands for makes such an attempt futile at best.
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:12:05 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
How much is enough, tracy? How much of these folks hard earned money should be taken from them by force and given to others?
I'm ignoring the obvious Marxism prevalent here because I'm sure you're already aware of it...
Stealing from the poor, oppressing people in their wages is not hard earned money.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus, beholding him, loved him and said to him, One thing you lack. Go, sell whatever you have and give it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, take up the cross and follow Me.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:13:23 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
It's really impossible to have a rational conversation with you, tracy, as your distaste for this nation and everything it stands for makes such an attempt futile at best.
Hey I thought you said a few posts back that you were done. Keep your word and it shouldnt be too hard.
NEXT...
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:14:08 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Stealing from the poor, oppressing people in their wages is not hard earned money.
Oh, so the rich got that way by STEALING from the poor? I guess the concept that many of them just worked hard and succeeded is lost on you, huh?
This is classic leftist wealth envy......because someone has more than you, you're going to use the police power of government to take it away from them and give it to you....
quote:
Hey I thought you said a few posts back that you were done
I never said I was done. Amused maybe, but not done... 
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:15:18 PM
|
|
|
SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline
|
On the other hand, there are MANY passages where Jesus himself says "feed the hungry", but where He makes NO mention of "but only if they get a job".
http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of-jesus-modern/jesus-poor.php
> "For this reason, he invited the rich young man to sell all of his possessions and give the proceeds to the poor. (Matthew 19:16-30, Luke 18:18-30, Mark 10:17-31)". Quick - where in that passage does Jesus say, "but only if 'the poor' have a job"?
"But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed." (Luke 14:13) Quick - where in that passage does Jesus say, "but only if 'the poor' have a job"?
(Matthew 25:31-46) To the "sheep" he says, "Come you blessed of my Father, for I was hungry and you fed me..." In their astonishment they ask, "When did we do that?" And he answers, "When you did it to the lowliest of my brothers (and sisters)." Quick - where in that passage does Jesus say, "but only if 'the poor' have a job"?
Jesus himself cared for those in need by feeding the hungry. Crowds of four thousand (Mark 8:1-13) and five thousand (Mark 6:30-44) had assembled to listen to Jesus. They soon became hungry. When his disciples suggested that Jesus send the people away to buy food, he responded by saying "I have compassion on these people..." and "you give them something to eat." He proceeded to perform miracles to feed these large crowds of hungry people. And it doesn't say a single word about ""but only if they have a job". <
Hmmm - the contention by some Republican types that only those 'willing to work', whatever that means, are deserving of the Church's clear duty to feed the hungry - vs Jesus' CLEAR statements which make no such differentiation.
Guess which I choose to believe.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:19:32 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Oh, so the rich got that way by STEALING from the poor? I guess the concept that many of them just worked hard and succeeded is lost on you, huh?
This is classic leftist wealth envy......because someone has more than you, you're going to use the police power of government to take it away from them and give it to you....
Luk 16:1 And He also said to His disciples, There was a certain rich man who had a steward. And he was accused to him, that he had wasted his goods.
Luk 16:2 And he called him and said to him, What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you may no longer be steward.
Luk 16:3 And the steward said within himself, What shall I do? For my lord is taking the stewardship away from me. I cannot dig; I am ashamed to beg.
Luk 16:4 I know what I will do, so that when I am put out of the stewardship they may receive me into their houses.
Luk 16:5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors and said; to the first, How much do you owe my lord?
Luk 16:6 And he said, A hundred baths of oil. And he said to him, Take your bill and sit down quickly and write fifty.
Luk 16:7 And he said to another, And how much do you owe? And he said, A hundred cors of wheat. And he said to him, Take your bill and write eighty.
Luk 16:8 And the unjust steward's lord commended him because he had done wisely. For the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luk 16:9 And I say to you, Make friends by the mammon of unrighteousness for yourselves, so that when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting dwellings.
Luk 16:10 He who is faithful in the least is also faithful in much. And he who is unjust in the least is also unjust in much.
Luk 16:11 Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will entrust the true riches to you?
Luk 16:12 And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who shall give you that which is your own?
Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Luk 16:14 And being money-lovers, all the Pharisees also heard all these things. And they derided Him.
Was the manager a leftist or right wing wealth builder whom Jesus called wiser than children of the light(Christians)?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:20:58 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
You've already ignored this one...
2 Thess.3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this command: If any one will not work, let him not eat.11 For we hear that some of you are living in idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work.
1 Timothy 5:8 If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Proverbs 19:15 Slothfulness casts into a deep sleep, and an idle person will suffer hunger
Proverbs 18:9 He who is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.
2 Thess. 3:14 If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.15 Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother
God obviously expects any able bodied Christian to pull his own weight...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:23:39 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Tracy, you post assumes that anyone who is rich is a "lover of money". This is not the case. It also assumes that only right-wingers are wealth builders. Do you really believe that there are no leftists who worked hard, made a success of their life, and accumulated wealth as a result?
Again, how much would you have the government take from the wealthy anda redistribute to the poor? What is an acceptble income tax percentage in your perfect world?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:32:28 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Again, how much would you have the government take from the wealthy anda redistribute to the poor? What is an acceptble income tax percentage in your perfect world?
***sign*** again.
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, follow Me.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:37:09 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
God obviously expects any able bodied Christian to pull his own weight...
God also expects and commands us to give to the poor. but as Christians we have twisted the verses to say don't give to the poor unless you like them.
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
Isa 10:2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:40:06 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
You're evading the issue, tracydolls.....especially since I am quite sure that you haven't given up EVERYTHING you own to follow Christ.
I'll ask again: How much is an acceptable percentage that the government should be able to tax the wealthiest among us?
You're also evading every other issue, as you still haven't pointed to a single part of the GOP platform that persecutes the poor, nor have you provided a single post from any of us that you have accused of "hating the poor".
quote:
God also expects and commands us to give to the poor. but as Christians we have twisted the verses to say don't give to the poor unless you like them.
But we are not commanded to continually prop them up so that they have an excuse never to do anything for themselves......
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:50:24 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
You're evading the issue, tracydolls.....especially since I am quite sure that you haven't given up EVERYTHING you own to follow Christ.
I'll ask again: How much is an acceptable percentage that the government should be able to tax the wealthiest among us?
You're also evading every other issue, as you still haven't pointed to a single part of the GOP platform that persecutes the poor, nor have you provided a single post from any of us that you have accused of "hating the poor".
quote:
God also expects and commands us to give to the poor. but as Christians we have twisted the verses to say don't give to the poor unless you like them.
But we are not commanded to continually prop them up so that they have an excuse never to do anything for themselves......
Yada, yada, since I posted ad nauseum the policies and you choose to ignore them.
I'll say it
NEXT......hint I can keep my word.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 5:58:28 PM
|
|
|
Restored_Heart
Posts: 901
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Tracydolls....
Question...
Government assistance originated as a means to bridge a gap to meet a need.... How long should one stay on that assistance?
Is it possible for those on assistance to be trapped into poverty because they are Dependant on that assistance and do not receive the tools to help them to stand on their own?
The Democrat party has its own share of rich elitists....
What do you believe is appropriate amounts and lengths of time for assistance to be given?
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 6:08:39 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Mccain wants to extend the tax cuts from Bush, a policy against the poor.
Explain. It has nothing to do with the poor. The poor don't pay taxes, so how would they get a tax cut?
The poor do pay taxes, when ever they buy a pack of cigs, they pay the taxes on them. When they get tabs for their cars, there are taxes. The money in tax cuts for the rich could help the poor.
The poor can affords cigs and cars?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 6:10:36 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
How much is enough, tracy? How much of these folks hard earned money should be taken from them by force and given to others?
I'm ignoring the obvious Marxism prevalent here because I'm sure you're already aware of it...
Stealing from the poor, oppressing people in their wages is not hard earned money.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus, beholding him, loved him and said to him, One thing you lack. Go, sell whatever you have and give it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in Heaven. And come, take up the cross and follow Me.
I take it this will be your last post since you are selling your computer and pulling the plug on your internet connection?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 6:13:30 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
You've already ignored this one...
2 Thess.3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this command: If any one will not work, let him not eat.11 For we hear that some of you are living in idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work.
1 Timothy 5:8 If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Proverbs 19:15 Slothfulness casts into a deep sleep, and an idle person will suffer hunger
Proverbs 18:9 He who is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.
2 Thess. 3:14 If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.15 Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother
God obviously expects any able bodied Christian to pull his own weight...
As well he that doesn't take care of his family is said to be worse than the infidel.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 6:15:28 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 1419
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
Republicans donate their money. Democrats take other people's money.
Conservatives are far more charitable than liberals. In the last presidential election all of the states that had higher than average personal charitalbe contributions went for George Bush except one. All of Kerry's states were in the bottom half except one.
And lets not forget the one we've been waiting for. He lives in a mansion. He and his wife went to an Ivy league school. He's made millions at a relatively young age without doing much work at all. Yet he has given very little to charity. His own brother lives in a shack made of garbage.
Mother Teresa was a conservative.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 6:29:41 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Too bad for the argument that Thess 3 is clearly instructions from Paul to the church at Thessalonika regarding the government of the church itself, not the interaction between the church and the outside poor.
Read the WHOLE chapter, not just the part that certain selfish faux-charitables want to misquote to justify their miserliness, and one can clearly see that what they quote simply doesn't say what they say it says.
2nd Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
2nd Thessalonians 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
2nd Thessalonians 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
2nd Thessalonians 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
2nd Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2nd Thessalonians 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2nd Thessalonians 3:12 Now them (brothers - church MEMBERS) that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
2nd Thessalonians 3:13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
2nd Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2nd Thessalonians 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2nd Thessalonians 3:16 Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.
2nd Thessalonians 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
2nd Thessalonians 3:18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
I don't see the argument being made that only able body folks who are members of the church should labor in order to eat... Surely it's a godly principle therefore it would apply to everyone who is able bodied in or out of the church.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 6:41:06 PM
|
|
|
davemiller7
Posts: 1032
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
|
You just want to ignore what the Bible says? OK. I'm through with you and your games. Have a great life
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Asked and answered, councilor - despite the attempted spin, 2 Thess 3 simply does not direct the church at Thessalonika to ignore the poor. it is direction to that church as to managing the church MEMBERSHIP.
Got another passage? or just going to try AGAIN to claim that this passage states something which it clearly does not?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 7:58:50 PM
|
|
|
stonek
Posts: 143
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
he very land you sit on is stolen, the black americans here, their wages from slavery, diamonds, gold, oil, you want me to go on.
None of which any of US are responsible for.
so the Us did not have slavery? ok. I keep flicking thru the channels but sorry I don;t have that Disney Channel.
quote:
Still nothing from the GOP platform, as I requested...you said the GOP had POLICIES against the poor..prove it.
Mccain wants to extend the tax cuts from Bush, a policy against the poor.
sheeesh.quote:
But I assume since it bothers you so that you will be on the next plane out to the nation of your choice in which to live the remainder of your days?
sorry but nope I as an american can tell the truth about America and remain in America.
I would go if all Black people could come along with all that was stolen from us, the zoo animals, the diamonds, well take the air conditioner, the list is too long.
You know do like the Israelites did the Egytpians , "borrowed" our stuff back.
I didn't take anything or do anything I wasn't even around.
Is all this really about you not liking white people I guess like Obama's church and your angry over it?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christians and Voting - 8/27/2008 8:21:14 PM
|
|
|
stonek
Posts: 143
Status: offline
|
quote:
2nd Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
There is a difference between one who won't work and scripture is stating if someone can work but is not willing to work then he shouldn't eat.
If, people are going hungry then it is our fault not governments fault. It is not governments role to feed the poor rather it is ours.
So, again I ask you what are you doing to feed the poor?
What are you doing to help your neighbor that was layed off to find employment?
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
