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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 1:50:53 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Amen!!!
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Here comes a hard truth: The only way a Christian could vote for Obama is if they have either never read the Bible, hold the Bible in low regard, or have very little understanding of it.
That is it. The Bible, God's very instruction and word to us, is very plain on things such as homosexuality and the sacred nature of life. The Democratic platform specifically promotes the normalization and ease of homosexuality and murder by abortion. Barack Obama has demonstrated that he approves of both of these practices. Voting for him is wrong, plain and simple.
You can do all the Bible gymnastics you want, but the truth is still the truth.
Better get ready to be disillusioned. Win or lose, millions of Christians, maybe tens of millions, are going to vote for Obama - are you prepared to dismiss so many of your co-religionists, not to mention countrymen, out of hand as somehow not really Christian?
well, there is such a thing as Christians-in-name-only...take my grandparents (whom i am praying for), they call themselves Christians because they are born in the USA...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:05:25 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
yes, I am. The Bible says we will know other Christians by their fruits, and voting for someone who is so anti-Christian in so many ways is not a fruit worth bearing...
Dude, I am so not trying to pick a fight, ok. But you have to get a grip with reality. I believe what the scripture says about fruit bearing, but you have to realize that there are Millions of Christians out there that genuinely have a relationship with God, and are Democrat politically even if they wouldn't have an abortion themselves or even ever think about counseling someone to have one.
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:10:09 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
yes, I am. The Bible says we will know other Christians by their fruits, and voting for someone who is so anti-Christian in so many ways is not a fruit worth bearing...
Dude, I am so not trying to pick a fight, ok. But you have to get a grip with reality. I believe what the scripture says about fruit bearing, but you have to realize that there are Millions of Christians out there that genuinely have a relationship with God, and are Democrat politically even if they wouldn't have an abortion themselves or even ever think about counseling someone to have one.
dude, you need to read James...especially the whole part about Faith without works (fruit) being dead...you'll thank me later...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:13:30 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
I believe what the scripture says about fruit bearing, but
Classic. "I know what the Bible says.....but..." Odd how we toss it aside when it no longer suits our own desires....
quote:
even if they wouldn't have an abortion themselves or even ever think about counseling someone to have one.
Doesn't matter...voting for a man with such anti-Christian views is basically your endorsement of such views....you yourself have already said that you do not care about Roe v Wade....so you're saying that the deaths of 40 million unborn do not matter to you.
At least you're consistent....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:22:50 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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Do you actually lose sleep every night over it? I don't. My ex-wife and I CHOSE to keep our kids, that was our choice. Roe v. wade doesn't help me meet my obligations to my family.
quote:
dude, you need to read James...especially the whole part about Faith without works (fruit) being dead...you'll thank me later.
Yeah Bro, I've read James many a times, I however feel that James was a bit of a legalist, not that it's such a bad thing, not saying it was un-inspired either. For what i see this site has tons of Legalistic Christians, it's algood to me. Whether you live a legalistic Christian life or not, if you love Christ and have a relationship with him I wont dare beat you over the head for your views. 
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:27:59 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
Classic. "I know what the Bible says.....but..." Odd how we toss it aside when it no longer suits our own desires....
classic is right just take what fits to make your point, whats the difference?
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:34:20 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
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You said it, pal, not me.
You either believe what the BIble says or you don't...it's not a smorgasbord from which you can pick and choose what suits you...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:45:10 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1571
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
You either believe what the BIble says or you don't...it's not a smorgasbord from which you can pick and choose what suits you...
Are you suggesting that if one believes the Bible it must be on a literal level as well?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:53:05 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
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The vast majority of the BIble is literal. You point?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:56:09 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
The vast majority of the BIble is literal. You point?
I might suggest a book: How to read the Bible for all it's worth. by: Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart, both Seminary Professors. It's first year Bible school required reading.
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:57:22 PM
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stonek
Posts: 143
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Amen!!!
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Here comes a hard truth: The only way a Christian could vote for Obama is if they have either never read the Bible, hold the Bible in low regard, or have very little understanding of it.
That is it. The Bible, God's very instruction and word to us, is very plain on things such as homosexuality and the sacred nature of life. The Democratic platform specifically promotes the normalization and ease of homosexuality and murder by abortion. Barack Obama has demonstrated that he approves of both of these practices. Voting for him is wrong, plain and simple.
You can do all the Bible gymnastics you want, but the truth is still the truth.
Better get ready to be disillusioned. Win or lose, millions of Christians, maybe tens of millions, are going to vote for Obama - are you prepared to dismiss so many of your co-religionists, not to mention countrymen, out of hand as somehow not really Christian?
Yes. Not everyone who claims to be a christian is a christian and 80% to 90% claim to be that in the U.S. which is very unlikely considering the moral state of things.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:58:01 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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I would just suggest the Bible, because you can't do any better than that.... 
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:06:54 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
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So like if we take ALL of scripture literally, how on earth do we explain Psalm 137:8-9 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us-who seizes your infants and dashes them againsts the rocks. NIV
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:08:34 PM
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stonek
Posts: 143
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
You said it, pal, not me.
You either believe what the BIble says or you don't...it's not a smorgasbord from which you can pick and choose what suits you...
I fully agree!!
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:09:00 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1032
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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There are Christians and sadly, there are Christians-in-name-only. It is my opinion, and I'm not speaking for anyone else (though I'm sure there are many here that share my belief in this) that to knowingly support and encourage the murder (abortion) of the most helpless among us (babies) is a great sin. Neither candidate is pure as the driven snow, but Obama and his openly pro-abortion stance is against fundamental Christian teaching. To some, he may have redeeming qualities, but not to me. I can't think of a single thing he stands for that I can support (unless it might be that he loves his family). Most of his rhetoric is platitudes, aimed at appeasing the supposedly downtrodden among us.
Vote for him if you wish, it's your decision. For me, I could never vote for anyone like him.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Amen!!!
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Here comes a hard truth: The only way a Christian could vote for Obama is if they have either never read the Bible, hold the Bible in low regard, or have very little understanding of it.
That is it. The Bible, God's very instruction and word to us, is very plain on things such as homosexuality and the sacred nature of life. The Democratic platform specifically promotes the normalization and ease of homosexuality and murder by abortion. Barack Obama has demonstrated that he approves of both of these practices. Voting for him is wrong, plain and simple.
You can do all the Bible gymnastics you want, but the truth is still the truth.
Better get ready to be disillusioned. Win or lose, millions of Christians, maybe tens of millions, are going to vote for Obama - are you prepared to dismiss so many of your co-religionists, not to mention countrymen, out of hand as somehow not really Christian?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:18:11 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1032
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I love to read Biblical interpretations, but rather than reading someone I don't know, I'd rather trust a John MacArthur, Adrian Rogers, Tony Evans, D. James Kennedy, or Erwin Lutzer.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
would just suggest the Bible, because you can't do any better than that....
Good point, but apparently some can't even do that with out a little help with interpretation.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:19:05 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2143
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
So like if we take ALL of scripture literally, how on earth do we explain Psalm 137:8-9 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us-who seizes your infants and dashes them againsts the rocks. NIV
For somebody who has supposedly read this great book on how to read the Bible, you demonstrate a remarkable lack of knowledge about the concept of CONTEXT.
Methinks you should stick to the subject at hand, which is voting for Obama....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:22:50 PM
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SwedishCovenant
Posts: 606
Joined: 8/8/2008
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Clear it is from the responses on this thread, that many of the soi-disant christians here have absolutely no difficulty in arrogating unto themselves one of God's prerogatives, that of deciding who is one of His followers.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:23:12 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
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Dude, if my comment were an F-15 it would have left you deaf!
< Message edited by rcamejo01 -- 8/26/2008 3:33:49 PM >
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:37:50 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
love to read Biblical interpretations, but rather than reading someone I don't know, I'd rather trust a John MacArthur, Adrian Rogers, Tony Evans, D. James Kennedy, or Erwin Lutzer.
With the exception of MacArthur who is a bit one sided for me I can see where you come from. However Fee and Stuart aren't pastors of Mega churches, or support one denominational agenda which is whats cool about their literature. Fee is a professor for Regent University.
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:45:22 PM
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stonek
Posts: 143
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SwedishCovenant
Clear it is from the responses on this thread, that many of the soi-disant christians here have absolutely no difficulty in arrogating unto themselves one of God's prerogatives, that of deciding who is one of His followers.
I understand your point. But some things don't add up. It's like saying you know according to the bible we are to not have sex outside marriage, but you hand all the kids at church each a box of condoms and put the girls on birth control when they turn 15 just in cased they decide to have sex rather than teaching them what God's word says not what the world teaches.
Same thing with saying your not pro-abortion just pro-choice and support a woman's right to chose to abort. Also, you support and elect those into office who work to pass laws supporting abortion. That is pro-abortion. Why not call it what it is. How can it be a choice if the child doesn't have one and often the fathers who may want the child don't either?
So, when you look at a person who supports issue after issue that is direct opposite of what the word of God says then say your christian isn't there something really wrong with that picture? Those are fair questions to me.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 3:48:42 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
and often the fathers who may want the child don't either?
may want should be the key point there. In the inner cities where Alot of abortions happen there aren't many responsible "fathers" out there. Not trying to use that as justification either, just making a point. We don't all live in Suburbia.
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 4:01:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
a vote for McCain is a vote against Obama, who is for abortion 100%....and yes, i know McCain is for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and mother endangerment, which i still believe is a wrong stance, but atleast he is not for abortion 100% like Obama.
Thats got to be the most extreme comment I've seen yet. Once again, we Liberals aren't 100% for Abortion, thats insane! We are 100% for the right for Americans to choose! Narrowmindedness Kills!
Praise Jesus!
What kills 3500 unborn child is the method of murder called abortion... Calling the right to murder a choice doesn't absolve one from supporting the action, paying for it to be done and doing the deed itself.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 4:05:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
Don't take this wrong Manimal but that thinking is the reason why I don't worship Christ at "church." Thats the reason why soo many people opt to worship at home with other Christians or Coffe shop ministries that are springing up all over town. You seem to be pretty hard core in the belief that I cannot be a Christian and vote for Obama, well, I am glad that YOU are not God! Jesus was not a Republican! Get over it folks. But thats cool too, people like you who judge a whole party based on 2 issues aren't something new. But I think you might as well get used to the Idea of Brack Hussein Obama, because it looks like McCain is the one having to come up with tricks to to win in November. I don't think America can possibly be that Stupid 3 terms in a row!
Just to be clear... The two issues in question are the murder of 3500 people daily and sexual perversion that cannot be reconciled with a walk with Christ... If anyone thinks God will wink at the above because it's said to be in the secular realm and therefore out of the scope of God's law and or that God simply doesn't care are kidding themselves...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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