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How Could a Christian Support Obama? - 8/25/2008 11:23:17 AM
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stonek
Posts: 143
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If you are a unbeliever or a proclaimed atheist you don't need to reply for what I am asking does not apply to you at all. I really just want to know from people who claim to be christian and who believe fully in the Word of God. Those who have looked at the voting record of Obama and even the stands of the democratic party, how can you vote for Obama? Issue after issue how do you support what God opposes? I can see where people lose faith in christianity. One person told me in my last post on this forum that I would be left stranded on the road if I broke down for being overweight. That's nice to know.
Just don't get people claiming God but denying what the bible says about living it out. May be some person is going to shed some light.
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Christians and Voting - 8/25/2008 12:02:48 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 554
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The same way a Christian can support McCain.
We are not electing a leader of the "Christian" church. Both McCain and Obama profess to be Christians yet both hold different views and BOTH have had issues that negate their profession.
Republicans ARE NOT Christians. Democrats ARE NOT Christians. Both parties are secular and therefore not representative of the Christian church. While there may certainly be Christians in both parties, we have NEVER had a "Christian" nation nor have we EVER governed from a theocratic perspective.
So, if you believe that you can only vote for a biblically "Christian" candidate, you are left with NO alternatives -- even selecting a third party -- as neither party is running their campaign as Jesus would.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/25/2008 12:14:00 PM
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stonek
Posts: 143
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
The same way a Christian can support McCain.
We are not electing a leader of the "Christian" church. Both McCain and Obama profess to be Christians yet both hold different views and BOTH have had issues that negate their profession.
Republicans ARE NOT Christians. Democrats ARE NOT Christians. Both parties are secular and therefore not representative of the Christian church. While there may certainly be Christians in both parties, we have NEVER had a "Christian" nation nor have we EVER governed from a theocratic perspective.
So, if you believe that you can only vote for a biblically "Christian" candidate, you are left with NO alternatives -- even selecting a third party -- as neither party is running their campaign as Jesus would.
I did not ask why people are not voting for the christian candidate. I couldn't say for certain the heart of either. I asked how can a voter who claims to be a christian support Obama, his voting record , the issues he has supported and opposed. Really much of democratic stand that are opposite to what the word of God tells us.
How does a christian support what God opposes, that's what I want to know?
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/25/2008 1:20:51 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2143
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Don't be surprised...if you disagree with a liberal, then you obviously must "hate' them...but to be fair there are those on the right that feel similarly.
However I think that most rational people can discuss differences without having to fall back on playing the whole "hate" card.
That said, I honestly don't see how a Christian could support Obama. Of course neither candidate is perfect, but Obama seems to go out of his way to oppose much of what would fall in line with Scripture....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/25/2008 3:59:21 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
The same way a Christian can support McCain.
We are not electing a leader of the "Christian" church. Both McCain and Obama profess to be Christians yet both hold different views and BOTH have had issues that negate their profession.
Republicans ARE NOT Christians. Democrats ARE NOT Christians. Both parties are secular and therefore not representative of the Christian church. While there may certainly be Christians in both parties, we have NEVER had a "Christian" nation nor have we EVER governed from a theocratic perspective.
Well said Evangel70.
Stonek:
If your question is sincere, I would direct you to the Matthew25 website that SweedishCovenant linked. Or, lookup "Call To Renewal".
Some Christians are not entirely on-board with either of the party's platform, but support Barak because they feel that on-the-whole Barak's beliefs are closer (but by no means all the way there)to what they see in the gospels.
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RE: How Could a Christian Support Obama? - 8/25/2008 4:24:37 PM
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joysword
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I believe if one is seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness then one would trust the Lord will give you peace in whom you will vote for. The Lord will set in place who is destined to carry out HIS purpose and it is up for us to pray to seek out godly wisdom from His Holy Spirit. So, spirit of wisdom, spirit of knowledge, spirit of understanding, spirit of counsel and might fall fresh upon us all the body of Christ, with the spirit of fear of the Lord that will bring us peace in all things.
JOYsWORD
Prov 3:5-6
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JoysWord
Prov3:5-6
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RE: How Could a Christian Support Obama? - 8/25/2008 4:46:00 PM
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tapcon
Posts: 1
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A Christian can not support Obama for one reason alone. Several years ago when in the Illinois legislature Obama voted against a bill similiar to the "Born Alive Child Protection Act" which was passed as a law in the United States and signed by Pres Bush. In other words Obama voted against protecting the right to live of our most helpless humans. What would Jesus Christ think about that, as one who gave his own life that we all may live.. Those who say one must seperate religion from politics are so pathetic. How lost they must be not to recognize that to protect the life of a helpless human being has nothing to do with politics or religion, but is rather our inborn natural instincts and nature. I am so sorry to say,and in a way rather sad about it, but Obama is just not what we need as our leader right now. thank you
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/25/2008 10:12:00 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
The same way a Christian can support McCain.
We are not electing a leader of the "Christian" church. Both McCain and Obama profess to be Christians yet both hold different views and BOTH have had issues that negate their profession.
Republicans ARE NOT Christians. Democrats ARE NOT Christians. Both parties are secular and therefore not representative of the Christian church. While there may certainly be Christians in both parties, we have NEVER had a "Christian" nation nor have we EVER governed from a theocratic perspective.
So, if you believe that you can only vote for a biblically "Christian" candidate, you are left with NO alternatives -- even selecting a third party -- as neither party is running their campaign as Jesus would.
All that said how does one reconcile voting for what they know to be against God and His word?
Is there a verse that grant immunity for voting for evil leaders?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/25/2008 11:34:55 PM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
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How Could a Christian not Vote for Barack Obama, that should be the question! I mean really! Im a Born Again, Spirit Filled, Grace Living Christian. I happen to be a Democrat, or does the Bible say I cannot be a Democrat? I missed that. I have read alot of forums on here and man I have to tell you for a "Christian" site, I have read so much Hate towards people who are not social conservatives. I have really close friends who are conservatives and man I have to tell you, they don't come at me so animalistic. And a couple friends of mine that are conservatives don't even profess faith in Christ and they still don't act so hateful towards me the "Liberal" Chrstian. By the way, I have to get something off my chest. Just because some of us are "pro-choice" doesn't mean we're all going about town looking for unborn babies to kill, you all are a trip. It simply means that we believe in the right to choose what a woman does with her pregnancy, wheather to keep, adopt, or if need be to abort. It's about the right to choose, not neccessarily on the act itself. God bless America. And for all you who profess Christ but are so mean to people like me, I Love you and will pray for you. See you in Heaven!
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 12:25:28 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
How Could a Christian not Vote for Barack Obama, that should be the question! I mean really! Im a Born Again, Spirit Filled, Grace Living Christian. I happen to be a Democrat, or does the Bible say I cannot be a Democrat? I missed that. I have read alot of forums on here and man I have to tell you for a "Christian" site, I have read so much Hate towards people who are not social conservatives. I have really close friends who are conservatives and man I have to tell you, they don't come at me so animalistic. And a couple friends of mine that are conservatives don't even profess faith in Christ and they still don't act so hateful towards me the "Liberal" Chrstian. By the way, I have to get something off my chest. Just because some of us are "pro-choice" doesn't mean we're all going about town looking for unborn babies to kill, you all are a trip. It simply means that we believe in the right to choose what a woman does with her pregnancy, wheather to keep, adopt, or if need be to abort. It's about the right to choose, not neccessarily on the act itself. God bless America. And for all you who profess Christ but are so mean to people like me, I Love you and will pray for you. See you in Heaven!
The act is murder and God takes exception to it... The fact that man gives the person the right to murder doesn't remove the fact that it's against God's law and He will judge accordingly...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 12:52:30 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
How Could a Christian not Vote for Barack Obama, that should be the question! I mean really! Im a Born Again, Spirit Filled, Grace Living Christian. I happen to be a Democrat, or does the Bible say I cannot be a Democrat? I missed that. I have read alot of forums on here and man I have to tell you for a "Christian" site, I have read so much Hate towards people who are not social conservatives. I have really close friends who are conservatives and man I have to tell you, they don't come at me so animalistic. And a couple friends of mine that are conservatives don't even profess faith in Christ and they still don't act so hateful towards me the "Liberal" Chrstian. By the way, I have to get something off my chest. Just because some of us are "pro-choice" doesn't mean we're all going about town looking for unborn babies to kill, you all are a trip. It simply means that we believe in the right to choose what a woman does with her pregnancy, wheather to keep, adopt, or if need be to abort. It's about the right to choose, not neccessarily on the act itself. God bless America. And for all you who profess Christ but are so mean to people like me, I Love you and will pray for you. See you in Heaven!
Hi Jo! Welcome to the news section of the forums. This tends to be where all of the social conservatism seeps out of the woodwork. 
I'm a bit like you, and I was practically driven out of the evangelical church (and now am a Methodist) because of my anti-Christians-need-to-get-involved-in-conservative-politics-and-all-vote-and-think-the-same views. I think the proper role of the church is to fix the problems politics tries to address, but just on an individual level.
Couple things to keep in mind:
-Most people on this forum are conservative, but most of them are generally nice folks once you get to look past their curious political views.
-Sometimes, us liberals use strong wording that sounds angry to conservatives when we don't realize it. Conservatives do the exact same thing. Just approach these oddities with a sense of humor! (I had a lot of fun when someone called liberals vampires once.)
Peace!
-BNY
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 2:19:46 AM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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I personally dont think that anyone that is going to be voting for Obama has Christianity in mind at all. If they did they wouldnt vote for him.
I think they see his great speeches and his demeanor and the fact that what he is doing is making history, and his relelentless speeches about change - they dont see what he really represents.
And i do. This is why i made the initial decision to vote for him when the primaries came around to my state (a battleground state in which he won) and now after learning MUCH more about him and seeing his reactions and some statements ive chosen to follow my heart, God, and vote for McCain when November comes around. If i see McCain making those statements as Obama has - i wont be voting at all.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 7:13:57 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
I personally dont think that anyone that is going to be voting for Obama has Christianity in mind at all. If they did they wouldnt vote for him.
I think they see his great speeches and his demeanor and the fact that what he is doing is making history, and his relelentless speeches about change - they dont see what he really represents.
And i do. This is why i made the initial decision to vote for him when the primaries came around to my state (a battleground state in which he won) and now after learning MUCH more about him and seeing his reactions and some statements ive chosen to follow my heart, God, and vote for McCain when November comes around. If i see McCain making those statements as Obama has - i wont be voting at all.
just do as i do, and hold your nose and vote for McCain...
a vote for McCain is a vote against Obama, who is for abortion 100%....and yes, i know McCain is for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and mother endangerment, which i still believe is a wrong stance, but atleast he is not for abortion 100% like Obama.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 8:18:35 AM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:
a vote for McCain is a vote against Obama, who is for abortion 100%....and yes, i know McCain is for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and mother endangerment, which i still believe is a wrong stance, but atleast he is not for abortion 100% like Obama.
Thats got to be the most extreme comment I've seen yet. Once again, we Liberals aren't 100% for Abortion, thats insane! We are 100% for the right for Americans to choose! Narrowmindedness Kills!
Praise Jesus!
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 8:55:26 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
quote:
a vote for McCain is a vote against Obama, who is for abortion 100%....and yes, i know McCain is for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and mother endangerment, which i still believe is a wrong stance, but atleast he is not for abortion 100% like Obama.
Thats got to be the most extreme comment I've seen yet. Once again, we Liberals aren't 100% for Abortion, thats insane! We are 100% for the right for Americans to choose! Narrowmindedness Kills!
Praise Jesus!
if you think that was extreme, then you haven't seen anything yet...and believe me, i am one of the easier people here to debate. you better get ready
dude, if it was simply a matter of choice, i would be for it. i love freedom. the problem is that the choice involves pre-meditated murder, which is an abomination and a sin. dude, simply abortion is murder, no matter the circumstance of choice.
one more thing, you can thank your mother that she didn't abort you. that is if you like your life anyway.
also, us Christians are narrowminded. if you truly believe in God's law and call yourself a Christian, then it is my belief that the more you begin to define the simple precepts of morality to be CONGRUENT with the Bible, the more you will become "narrowminded"...
remember, Jesus said the road is narrow.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 10:02:44 AM
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rcamejo01
Posts: 309
Joined: 8/27/2007
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yes he did say that, while he was stil in the flesh and living under the Law, however we have been redeemed from the curse of the Law. The ultimate freedom we have is freedom from the Law. You cannot be saved by Grace and kept by Law, or did I miss read Galatians and Hebrews? another thing, I don't agree with the act of abortion itself, however since I am male and don't ever have to worry about the issue personally, so I would like to see a candidate who is passionate about what does affect me..i.e. economy, war in Iraq(since I am a Veteran), energy prices, health care..ect.
_____________________________
In your prayers, please remember my sister Liz, if you havent heard: http://caringbridge.org/visit/lizettecano
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 10:11:50 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
yes he did say that, while he was stil in the flesh and living under the Law, however we have been redeemed from the curse of the Law. The ultimate freedom we have is freedom from the Law. You cannot be saved by Grace and kept by Law, or did I miss read Galatians and Hebrews? another thing, I don't agree with the act of abortion itself, however since I am male and don't ever have to worry about the issue personally, so I would like to see a candidate who is passionate about what does affect me..i.e. economy, war in Iraq(since I am a Veteran), energy prices, health care..ect.
dude, i love Galatians, but the Apostle Paul makes it clear himself that because we live in grace, that we DO NOT go about freely sinning. Now, how do we define sinning? going against the law. You should read James.
God defined the law because the law is of Him and thus complete righteousness. Living under grace will help you do the things of the law. but no matter what, we shall not cast it aside. we are saved by grace through faith, but we still need to obey the law.
I am a combat veteran myself and consider our social issues to be of more importance. Abortion has to be my number one issue, because it is not justified to consider other factors primarily over the pre-meditated murder of the unborn.
we need to stand up for the unborn first and foremost.
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 10:12:59 AM
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Dubya
Posts: 1033
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcamejo01
yes he did say that, while he was stil in the flesh and living under the Law, however we have been redeemed from the curse of the Law. The ultimate freedom we have is freedom from the Law. You cannot be saved by Grace and kept by Law, or did I miss read Galatians and Hebrews? another thing, I don't agree with the act of abortion itself, however since I am male and don't ever have to worry about the issue personally, so I would like to see a candidate who is passionate about what does affect me..i.e. economy, war in Iraq(since I am a Veteran), energy prices, health care..ect.
I agree that we are saved by grace through faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ and not by the Law. However, it is because we are saved that we are obedient. Grace does not mean we can simply disregard law. It is just that the Law does not save.
As Christians, we are called on to look after the concerns of others, especially those who cannot look out for themselves... like the pre-born.
It really all depends on where you define the beginning of life. If you do not think that life begins at conception you may not have objections to abortion, at least in the early stages of pregnancy. The problem is, for people who do believe that life begins at conception or any time within the womb, supporting a woman's right to "choose" is really granting someone the right to take a life.
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 10:44:42 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1226
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Here comes a hard truth: The only way a Christian could vote for Obama is if they have either never read the Bible, hold the Bible in low regard, or have very little understanding of it.
That is it. The Bible, God's very instruction and word to us, is very plain on things such as homosexuality and the sacred nature of life. The Democratic platform specifically promotes the normalization and ease of homosexuality and murder by abortion. Barack Obama has demonstrated that he approves of both of these practices. Voting for him is wrong, plain and simple.
You can do all the Bible gymnastics you want, but the truth is still the truth.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Christians and Voting - 8/26/2008 10:52:34 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 532
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Here comes a hard truth: The only way a Christian could vote for Obama is if they have either never read the Bible, hold the Bible in low regard, or have very little understanding of it.
That is it. The Bible, God's very instruction and word to us, is very plain on things such as homosexuality and the sacred nature of life. The Democratic platform specifically promotes the normalization and ease of homosexuality and murder by abortion. Barack Obama has demonstrated that he approves of both of these practices. Voting for him is wrong, plain and simple.
You can do all the Bible gymnastics you want, but the truth is still the truth.
The same could be said for President Bush's inaction on these issues.
The difference being he took your money & support 8 years ago.
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