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[Poll]
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Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness?
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| none of the above |
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Total Votes : 59
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(last vote on : 10/6/2008 8:29:54 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/1/2008 2:40:10 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angelbite
...I suggest before you come at me with some dribble that is supposed to sound half way intelligent I am guessing that you take a look at the latest scientific research and findings on addiction.
Take a look at Stanton Peele's website, read the book Addiction is a choice by Jeffrey A Schaler. Men who have spent their whole lives researching addiction and who actually know what they are talking about.
Did you mean "drivel" instead of "dribble"??
If his books says that, Jeffrey A Schaler is an idiot and so is Stanton Peele for posting it. They obviously wasted their whole lives because they haven't a clue.
And I'm being kind when I write that.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/1/2008 10:45:38 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17899
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: online
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quote:
Quitting any addiction is simple, you know what you do, you just don't pick up that next drink or drug and yes I agree staying abstinent is often really hard.
You are clueless when it comes to this subject.
_____________________________
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 1:16:16 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Jimbo doesn't suit you at all for a name. I had a mate named Jimbo and he was fun, kind and everyone loved him, whereas your photo looks like you have chosen someone straight out of Star Wars.
I don't recall judging anyone, or getting on my pedestal. I probably could without too much justification as I felt attacked almost just for voicing my opinion.
Why this topic?
Well I will spell it out for you!
I am a born again Christian who loves the Lord I know my Bible and I know about addiction. I know about quitting and abstinence, relapse, detox, rehabs, 12 Step Meetings, and being recovered all from my own personal experience.
I run 3 Yahoo support groups one happens to be for people in active addiction, in recovery or recovered and it also caters for people with dual diagnosis or just plain mental illness. I see the effects of addiction and the harm that the 12 Step movement causes every single day.
I jumped on this particular topic because I KNOW addiction. Do you?
Doesn't it make sense to you to start somewhere with a topic that you know the most about? And I obviously wanted to get involved in a forum with like minded people who believe the same things about the Lord that I do, did I really have to spell that out to you?
Your sarcasm in your post was not becoming to you, I feel that you are coming across as very arrogant. Maybe you are or maybe I have just gotten to know the wrong side of you. Whatever, I don't really care.
Now I would like to hear YOUR EXPERT OPINION on matters of addiction. I would like to see you cough up with something of some substance to back up what you say. Where is your scientific empirical research that will show me what you believe about addiction is really true?
Here I'll even give you a hand, there are nine, aspects to the disease model listed below. Is this what you believe to be true about addiction, if it is where is your data, your evidence that this is so? If it is not then what exactly do you believe to be true about addiction and where is your proof?
• Most addicts do not admit they have a problem.
• Addicts cannot control themselves when they take drugs/alcohol.
• The only solution to addiction is treatment.
• Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease.
• The most important step in overcoming addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless.
• Complete abstinence, not moderation, is the only way to control addiction.
• Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one person will become addicted.
• The fact the addiction runs in family's mean that it is a genetic disease.
• People who have been addicts are always in danger of relapsing.
It will take much more than an ignorant remark about high school to derail me. I am no expert but I would bet my bottom dollar that I am more informed than you are.
Regards,
~angelbite~
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 1:32:04 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Do you even know HOW to be kind? Does it really matter whether I meant drivel or dribble? Are you really that anal retentive?
Stanton Peele, Ph. D., J.D., (born January 8, 1946) is a licensed psychologist, attorney, practising psychotherapist and the author of books and articles on the subject of alcoholism, addiction and addiction treatment. Peele is the author of nine books including, Love and Addiction (1975), The Meaning of Addiction (1985/1998), Diseasing of America (1989), The Truth about Addiction and Recovery (with Archie Brodsky and Mary Arnold, 1991), Resisting 12-Step Coercion (with Charles Bufe and Archie Brodsky, 2001), 7 Tools to Beat Addiction (2004), and Addiction-Proof Your Child (2007), as well as 200 professional publications.
Peele won the 1994 Alfred R. Lindesmith Award for achievement in the Field of Scholarship from the Drug Policy Foundation , Washington, DC. and the 1989 Rutgers Center of Alcohol Studies Mark Keller Award for Alcohol Studies for his article "The limitations of control-of-supply models for explaining and preventing alcoholism and drug addiction," JSA, 48:61-77, 1987. Other acknowledgements have come in the The Creation of the Annual Stanton Peele Lecture, 1998, by the Addiction Studies Program, Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia and a Lifetime Achievement Award, 2006, International Network on Personal Meaning, Vancouver.
Stanton Peele has been investigating, thinking, and writing about addiction since 1969. His first bombshell book, Love and Addiction, appeared in 1975.
Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D., Professor of Psychology. Schaler teaches at American University's School of Public Affairs in Washington, D.C and at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.
These aren't even all their credentials. They have achieved in their lifetimes would you could never even hope to!
Oh but right, you called them 'idiots' didn't you? Well maybe you better cough up something substantial to offer to this discussion not just "sanctimonious hypocrisy and cant." Otherwise I have to say I find you very boring.
Regards,
~angelbite~
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 1:34:37 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Am I? Really?
Well Mr Humble in Spirit but not in word. Why don't you tell me where I am erring?
Why don't you fill me in in what I am missing if I am so hopelessly clueless? I am waiting....
Regards,
~angelbite~
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 1:37:31 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Well said manda59. Very well said.
Regards,
~angelbite~
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 2:09:27 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Why Addiction is a Choice
by Jeffrey A. Schaler
Christian Networks Journal
June 5, 2005
Anyone listening to the incessant propaganda for what is called "the disease model" of addiction might suppose that all experts on addiction agree with it. But this is far from the truth. People who have spent a lifetime studying addiction are divided in their opinions. I am one of many psychologists who maintain that addiction is not a disease but a choice.
Some people suppose they can show that addiction is a disease by pointing out that it is a serious problem, that people can destroy or impoverish their lives by excessive consumption
of some chemical substance or by an obsessive preoccupation with some pastime like gambling or sex. I do not dispute that some forms of addiction constitute a serious problem. What I do dispute is the assumption that serious problems are always necessarily medical in nature. Serious problems may be social, or moral, or existential.
People can make unwise choices. People can make self-destructive choices. People can make evil choices, though in our society there is not always agreement about which choices are evil, which are good, and which are morally neutral. It's also true that people can make sensible, constructive, and heroic choices. If we are going to claim that people are not responsible for their bad choices, how can we claim that they are responsible for their good choices? If we are not to blame people for their harmful actions, then how are we to praise them for their fine or noble action?
If someone has made an unfortunate choice, they may be in need of help. My judgment that addiction is a choice is not an excuse to be uncaring. I do not want to be hard on people who are suffering from the difficulties of life. But I believe we do not help people most effectively by classifying their behavior as symptoms of some mysterious and entirely mythical illness. We can help people by offering them advice, or perhaps by enabling them to improve their circumstances so that they are better able to cope, and thus do not feel impelled to take refuge in particular chemical substances.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 3:09:31 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1664
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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Okay folks, back off Angelbite here. I've read through all the posts so far and there is some legitimacy to what's posted. I think that, in many ways, we have been too swayed by what the scientific community has been preaching to us over the decades. The same way we willingly accepted the theory of evolution and global warming.
When I overcame my addiction to pot, I did it on my own. No, it was not easy. But, I had to make a decision that I was not going to do it anymore. I did not go to any 12 step programs, I did not do treatment, I made up my mind. God had a role in it. He showed me where I was going to wind up if I didn't change.
Since that time, I have worked extensively with people addicted to everything from alcohol to meth and, for five years, worked with sexual offenders. I co-facilitated sex offender treatment. While we treated for sexual addiction, the bottom line was that men and women made choices to set things in motion to fulfill their own desire despite any potential consequences to self or others.
I think it's worth taking a look at. It could generate a good discussion and, possibly, cause to look at how we treat addiction.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 3:16:07 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5997
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angelbite
Well said manda59. Very well said.
Regards,
~angelbite~
Hey, what did I say well? lol
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 3:40:45 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5997
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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angelbite,
I'm a Brit, so maybe I am more used to thinking this way.
From here (Schaler's website, citing an article from the Psychiatric Times, 2002):
quote:
My book Addiction Is a Choice was criticized in a recent review in a British scholarly journal of addiction studies because it states the obvious (Davidson, 2001). According to the reviewer, everyone in the addiction field now knows that addiction is a choice and not a disease, and I am, therefore, "violently pushing against a door which was opened decades ago." I'm delighted to hear that addiction specialists in Britain are so enlightened and that there is no need for me to argue my case over there.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 5:15:23 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Wow Zamdad I didn't expect anyone here to actually kind of stand in my corner for a while, thank you very much! Finally here is the voice of reason, of rational and logical talk. Dare I hope that I may not have to leave Christianity.com Forums before I even got a chance to meet some good people.
Zamdad says here "It could generate a good discussion and, possibly, cause to look at how we treat addiction."
YAY, that would be wonderful to be able to converse freely back and forth with the freedom to examine addiction maybe from different perspectives, different methods of getting clean there is so much to learn in this field. Dr. Schaler dances gracefully around the definition of "addiction," which he says means "commitment, dedication, devotion, bent, or inclination."
Schaler agrees that "just about everyone" believes that addicts are driven by an irresistible compulsion. This includes politicians, government officials, social workers, addiction treatment providers, physicians, ministers of religion and the media.
The only ones who disagree are "those people who actually know something about the subject."
It is a beautiful thing when brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ are able to come together maybe disagree, but disagree respectfully. To come together and listen to ideas that sound foreign to our ears and to maaybe examine whether it could be right or wrong, but to do it in a spirit of friendly banter and the spirit of faith, love and hope.
When I gave up meth 2 years ago I just stopped, I didn't attend any 12 Step Programs either, no detoxes and no rehabs. I did it without any treatment at all. I have relapsed since then so I am definitely not saying I was anything special doing it without any treatment, just saying that the majority of all addicts do the same thing and most remain abstinent.
Ok I'm outta here for now, I hope this place calms down a little now and thanks to you Zamdad I appreciate your point of view..
Kind regards,
~angelbite~
< Message edited by angelbite -- 10/2/2008 6:12:44 AM >
_____________________________
You will find as you look back upon your life
that the moments when you have really lived,
are the moments when you have done things in the spirit of Love.
Kind regards,
~angelbite~
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 5:53:47 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1664
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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Angelbite, welcome to CW forums. This is a very friendly place that can have some heated discussions about any number of issues. You came here, on your first day, with both guns blazing on a topic you obviously have some passion about. Thanks for having the courage to address this from outside the box.
You indicate you have been off meth for two years, but also say that you have relapsed. How long has it been since your last actual use? I have known only a few that have quit meth cold turkey. I've seen far too many get eaten alive by meth.
I think sharing your story may be a good place to begin to help settle down the emotions on the board.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 6:24:51 AM
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angelbite
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
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Thank you very much for the welcome to CW forums sanded, I honestly thought that I would probably be kicked out of here for breaking one of the rules that I haven't read as yet, Lil... But it seems I have been given a second chance and I will try not to rub people up the wrong way.
Yes I am very passionate about this topic, and courage, strength, empathy, kindness, compassion I know are in the hearts of probably the majority of people here. With such beautiful traits we should be able surely to have an even heated discussion about all things addiction and not get put down for it?
I am new here Zamdad and I don't know the other people well as yet, the people that I have met I wouldn't write home about. So I don't feel safe or comfortable expressing more of my addiction and the course it has taken in front of hostile people. As soon as I come into my own here I will talk about it, but not now, it's not the right time and I hope that you can understand that?
There are prolly a few emotions that may need to settle down on the board but it won't be at my expense that that is going to happen.
Thank you again.
Kind regards,
~angelbite~
_____________________________
You will find as you look back upon your life
that the moments when you have really lived,
are the moments when you have done things in the spirit of Love.
Kind regards,
~angelbite~
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 8:01:33 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angelbite
Jimbo doesn't suit you at all for a name. I had a mate named Jimbo and he was fun, kind and everyone loved him, whereas your photo looks like you have chosen someone straight out of Star Wars.
Awww. My dear wife of 36 years, my children, and precious grandchildren might beg to differ with you, but I'm not sure you'd care for them either.
BTW, Is your avatar a real pic of you? If not, why is mine an issue at all?
quote:
I am a born again Christian who loves the Lord I know my Bible and I know about addiction. I know about quitting and abstinence, relapse, detox, rehabs, 12 Step Meetings, and being recovered all from my own personal experience.
I run 3 Yahoo support groups one happens to be for people in active addiction, in recovery or recovered and it also caters for people with dual diagnosis or just plain mental illness. I see the effects of addiction and the harm that the 12 Step movement causes every single day.
I have been a blood-bought, Holy Spirit indwelt believer and student of the Bible since 1967 when I was 15. Never used a 12 step program either and have, during my 56 years, known and lived around more than a few addicts. Didn't take any course.
quote:
I jumped on this particular topic because I KNOW addiction. Do you?
Recovering from my own addiction and have had several family members addicted to alcohol and other substances. You aren't the only person on this forum with life experiences.
Regards,
JF
< Message edited by JimboFletch -- 10/2/2008 8:07:39 AM >
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 8:07:08 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
• The fact the addiction runs in family's mean that it is a genetic disease.
That it runs in families means that individuals might be more susceptible to addiction but also that the influence of active addicts and enablers in the family encourage use of the substance. It's political correctness and psycho-babble that led to addiction being labeled a disease.
As noted in earlier posts, if alcoholism is a "disease", then it's the only disease that God declares will keep one out of heaven. That's according to the Bible, which sometimes contradicts popular notions and conventional wisdom...
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 9:39:31 AM
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Kath
Posts: 17217
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
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Some of you have been very rude to angelbite, calling her clueless and uneducated, a TOS 6 violation. Tone it down, please. One can disagree without being disagreeable.
TOS 6
6. You will not harass, threaten, embarrass or distress users, either in the community itself or via personal email, phone, physical mail or in person. You will not engage in name-calling or personal attacks in the course of discussion or debate. You will not post inflammatory remarks simply for the purpose for evoking reaction or starting fights with other community members (Often referred to as "trolling"). Overall, promoting a spirit of divisiveness in the chat and forums community will not be tolerated.
- Attacking the character or motives of someone who differs with your view or denying that he or she is a Christian is unacceptable.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Please review our FAQ for an explanation as to why one cannot confront a moderator directly.
_____________________________
"It's going to be bad around here when the cows come home to roost."
Dilbert's TRUE QUOTES FROM INDUHVIDUALS
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 10:10:50 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5997
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
Addicts are addicted because they have chosen to be...
In all my life, I've never met any addict that intended to become one. They have chosen to use substances that are addictive, but I've never known anyone to assert that they woke up one day and thought, "I've got nothing better on my schedule, so I think I'll become an addict today."
I think what angelbite may have meant was that an addict lives a life whereby every day they choose to continue using (as opposed to choosing to seek help). It really is a matter of choice, and recovery is all about helping that person to regain and reinforce their sense of autonomy (their ability to make independent choices)
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
Quitting a substance addiction is much easier than it appears to be, or is made out to be.
Is that a quote from Pollyanna 101 for Junior High? It certainly doesn't sound like experience with or understanding of addiction.
Quitting may be simple but it isn't easy or else there wouldn't be so many failed attempts as getting free.
angelbite didn't say it's easy (re-read her post), but that it is much easier than it appears to be or is made out to be. All the addicts I have worked with would agree with her - how relatively easy it can be to come off/quit using a substance, but how hard it is to stay off it. I would personally say that it's the latter that represents the "failed attempts" rather than the former.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 10:20:37 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
All the addicts I have worked with would agree with her
I'm one that doesn't.
If unconsciously feeding your addiction is a choice, then maybe. For me, it was never a conscious thought, choice, or effort to continue. Feeding it was second nature.
It's easy to INTEND to quit.
But there's nothing easy about actually quitting. That's where choice is made. And you have to repeat that choice a thousand times a day, at least in the beginning. You have to choose NOT to repeat the addictive behavior any way you can find - except through the substance that controlled you.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 11:24:00 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5997
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
But there's nothing easy about actually quitting.
Neither angelbite or I have said that it is easy.
I said that it is easier that it is made out to be, not that it is easy.
I've worked alongside addicts who were scared to death of coming off the gear or the booze, who were convinced they'd be so ill from withdrawing that they'd die, when in fact, except in extreme cases where other health issues were involved (eg epilepsy), quitting/coming off (once they'd decided to) was far easier than they thought it would be. Even after they'd done so before, they'd forget that it wasn't as bad as they'd thought it would be.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 12:24:19 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Only God can truly deliver someone from any kind of addiction.
I completely agree with Manda about this. This one of the reasons people who are members of AA go their entire life. There isn't a cure. The only cure is when God chooses to deliver someone from it. Otherwise, the alcoholic needs to be in lifelong recovery, like AA or that other popular Christian recovery program that I forgot the name of.
My dad has been sober like 11 years, he is an active member of AA. You'd think after 11 years of being sober, he had a good handle on it, but he still attends 2 meetings a week, sponsors a few guys and is involved in service commitments. Because is it a disease there is no cure for (except like I said above) he needs to still be active in the program. His mind and spiritual self were so deeply affected by the alcoholism that continuing to be active in AA is making his mind and spirit healthier because of the tools and principles they learn there. I can see it in him and how much his personality has changed since beginning his sobriety. The tools he is learning there is making him more "normal" for lack of a better word. His thought process is different and reactions to others is different. It's hard to explain I guess.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 2:25:43 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: online
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Just to add to my post. The term ex-alcoholic or recoverED alcoholic is rarely, if ever used in programs like AA. They typically consider themselves "recovering alcoholics" whether they have 30 days or 30 years sobriety.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 2:26:32 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1664
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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Another one of the things that resonated in my mind with regard to Angelbites post was a comment from my pastor about helping a man in our church that struggles with addiction. My pastor was concerned about the man and wanted to see him get help. As I spoke with the pastor, he said it was not his job as it was a medical matter, not a spiritual matter. This comment hit me between the eyss and I told the pastor that it is a spiritual problem. Yes, it has been treated under the medical model, but the crux of the issue is a spiritual issue. To an addict, the drug/stimulus becomes their god. All thoughts are geared toward serving that god. Any other activities required of that person for a given day are planned around how that high (conducting that idol worship) is going to fit in.
Another comment on this board that struck a chord with regard to addiction being a choice. Someone said that no one wakes up saying I want to become an addict. It's a part of the spiritual makeup of a person in which trying a chemical or engaging in an activity that stimulates biological causes them to seek that stimulus over and over again. It's a process, not an event.
_____________________________
“A dead thing goes with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it.”
G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 10/2/2008 2:46:12 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2933
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: online
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So after all this talk of whether alcoholism is a disease, do you all think it is a family disease as defined in Al-Anon?
I was an Alateen (kids' version of Al-Anon) and we learned it was a family disease. It affects all members of the family. I believe that to be true since I've been there and have seen it first hand. The alcoholic acts, and the family reacts. Over time that really does a number on your spiritual self and mental self. And, people who have suffered from the second hand effects of alcoholism need Jesus and something like Al-Anon or CoDA or self-help books or counselling to help them learn tools to continually make themselves spiritually and mentally healthier.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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