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[Poll]
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Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness?
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| disease |
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| addiction |
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| weakness |
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| all three |
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| none of the above |
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Total Votes : 59
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(last vote on : 10/6/2008 8:29:54 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:19:33 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10527
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
As far as weakness:
weak·ness
–noun 1. the state or quality of being weak; lack of strength, firmness, vigor, or the like; feebleness.
2. an inadequate or defective quality, as in a person's character; slight fault or defect: to show great sympathy for human weaknesses.
Yes, alcoholism is a weakness.
Sounds like the description of the majority of mankind to me.
Never said it wasn't. Everyone has weaknesses.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:24:18 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10086
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Deliveredarling, I'm not posting to critique anything that's been said since my last post, I just have a sincere question:
How are you qualified to know so much about alcoholics and family members of alcoholics?
Thanks,
JF
Not being ugly Jimbo but I think from what she has posted it is the same qualifications you exhibit in the tobacco thread.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:25:23 PM
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I_Walk_Alone
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I didn't vote because all three choices are relevant concerning alcoholism. It follows a certain pattern. A persons weaknesses drives them to the bottle to drown it all away. Then as the weakness continues, the addict believes they can't make it through the day without the bottle and descend deeper down. It is then described as a mental disease where the addict believes that they need the alcohol to survive and if seperated starts getting violently ill because of withdrawal. Each word is a step in alcoholism. But the initial problem is that it starts from weakness.
One thing that I do disagree with, is the supposed gene for alcoholism. I see it as nothing more than an excuse and takes consequences away for a person's actions.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:29:05 PM
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Ruthie
Posts: 72
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Deliveredarling, its a continual struggle with me. I know that my hate is wrong. Its just hard to let go.
I'm getting off antidepressants right now and its even harder than normal to remain even. The doctor never warned me about Paxil and the brain zaps and mood swings are really bad right now.
Just take what I say right now with a grain of salt.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:31:26 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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You are not supposed to suddenly stop taking seritonin reuptake inhibitors.
It can cause an emotional crash.
You have to wean off of them slowly, under a doctor's care.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:31:28 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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I'm a recovered alcoholic who drank for twenty years, went through intense and severe physical withdrawals, attended two rehabs, had a brother who was an addict and ended up committing suicide have been sober for six years and I work with alcoholics and drug addicts.
Does that qualify me?
It's completely a been there and done that kind of deal.
Discussing it with people who haven't been through it is like discussing all the ins and outs of abortion with someone hasn't done it. It's something you only kind of grasp, the whole impact doesn't hit you until you walk through it.
I can't relate to a person who has had an abortion because I didn't go through it. I don't understand the thought process or even all the emotions involved. I can empathize and pray for that person, but it's not something I can walk through with them in a hands on situation.
The epitome of the program is reaching out to other alcoholics, it's called the 12th step.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:33:06 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Deliveredarling, I'm not posting to critique anything that's been said since my last post, I just have a sincere question:
How are you qualified to know so much about alcoholics and family members of alcoholics?
Thanks,
JF
Not being ugly Jimbo but I think from what she has posted it is the same qualifications you exhibit in the tobacco thread.
A recovering addict? But I'm not in denial about who is to blame for my addiction. It's not something that I caught like the flu and I didn't keep doing it because of genetics.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:36:00 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10086
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruthie
Deliveredarling, its a continual struggle with me. I know that my hate is wrong. Its just hard to let go.
I'm getting off antidepressants right now and its even harder than normal to remain even. The doctor never warned me about Paxil and the brain zaps and mood swings are really bad right now.
Just take what I say right now with a grain of salt.
I hope this does not violate TOS but if it does it is worth it. I agree with Bluestone. I urge you to contact you doctor. Coming off medicines like Paxil "cold turkey" can be very dangerous to you.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:37:52 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Deliveredarling, its a continual struggle with me. I know that my hate is wrong. Its just hard to let go.
I'm getting off antidepressants right now and its even harder than normal to remain even. The doctor never warned me about Paxil and the brain zaps and mood swings are really bad right now.
Just take what I say right now with a grain of salt.
Ruthie, you have suffered from the effects of alcoholism. It is a painful road. No one here is making any excuses for alcoholics. Let me assure that there are people and places that you can work through your anger and resentment with. Anger is normal and expected with family members of alcoholics. I highly suggest al-anon. It is a great program that moves at your own pace. You will find many men and women there who have been through similar situations to yours. All the feelings expressed, you will be able to relate too. May God bless you in your journey.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:39:52 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10086
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Deliveredarling, I'm not posting to critique anything that's been said since my last post, I just have a sincere question:
How are you qualified to know so much about alcoholics and family members of alcoholics?
Thanks,
JF
Not being ugly Jimbo but I think from what she has posted it is the same qualifications you exhibit in the tobacco thread.
A recovering addict? But I'm not in denial about who is to blame for my addiction. It's not something that I caught like the flu and I didn't keep doing it because of genetics.
The bold part answered your question. I did not address the rest because you said you had "a" question and that you were not critiquing anythings since your last post..
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:43:05 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10527
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I'm a recovered alcoholic who drank for twenty years, went through intense and severe physical withdrawals, attended two rehabs, had a brother who was an addict and ended up committing suicide have been sober for six years and I work with alcoholics and drug addicts.
Does that qualify me?
It's completely a been there and done that kind of deal.
Discussing it with people who haven't been through it is like discussing all the ins and outs of abortion with someone hasn't done it. It's something you only kind of grasp, the whole impact doesn't hit you until you walk through it.
I can't relate to a person who has had an abortion because I didn't go through it. I don't understand the thought process or even all the emotions involved. I can empathize and pray for that person, but it's not something I can walk through with them in a hands on situation.
The epitome of the program is reaching out to other alcoholics, it's called the 12th step.
Whether you want to admit it or not, there are a lot of folks who have just as much "experience" and more and not all of them will follow your ideas and beliefs in lockstep either. Yes, you have a lot of experience, but that doesn't mean all your answers are infallible which is one of the great things about discussions like this where we can all hear different persepectives and such. The fact is, I know folks who would disagree with you who are also recovered alcoholics, have degrees in this kind of stuff, run 12-Step ministries, etc.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 4:56:45 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7616
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I'm a recovered alcoholic who drank for twenty years, went through intense and severe physical withdrawals, attended two rehabs, had a brother who was an addict and ended up committing suicide have been sober for six years and I work with alcoholics and drug addicts.
Does that qualify me?
It's completely a been there and done that kind of deal.
Discussing it with people who haven't been through it is like discussing all the ins and outs of abortion with someone hasn't done it. It's something you only kind of grasp, the whole impact doesn't hit you until you walk through it.
I can't relate to a person who has had an abortion because I didn't go through it. I don't understand the thought process or even all the emotions involved. I can empathize and pray for that person, but it's not something I can walk through with them in a hands on situation.
The epitome of the program is reaching out to other alcoholics, it's called the 12th step.
Whether you want to admit it or not, there are a lot of folks who have just as much "experience" and more and not all of them will follow your ideas and beliefs in lockstep either. Yes, you have a lot of experience, but that doesn't mean all your answers are infallible which is one of the great things about discussions like this where we can all hear different persepectives and such. The fact is, I know folks who would disagree with you who are also recovered alcoholics, have degrees in this kind of stuff, run 12-Step ministries, etc.
I need a "I agree with phosadaud" button on my computer. 
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 5:02:41 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Whether you want to admit it or not, there are a lot of folks who have just as much "experience" and more and not all of them will follow your ideas and beliefs in lockstep either. Yes, you have a lot of experience, but that doesn't mean all your answers are infallible which is one of the great things about discussions like this where we can all hear different persepectives and such. The fact is, I know folks who would disagree with you who are also recovered alcoholics, have degrees in this kind of stuff, run 12-Step ministries, etc.
I don't see then stepping up to the plate, if you know what I mean.
So far I am the only admitted recovered alcoholic that is responding to the thread.
Again, I don't care what kind of a degree a person has, if they haven't experienced it, it's just not the same. This is a spiritual problem and degrees aren't need to solve it.
I also don't care if someone takes what I've offered or not. It's what worked for me, I can't say how Joe blow down the street did it now can I? I can only speak from my own personal experience.
And again the only solution to this spiritual problem is Jesus.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 5:12:45 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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By the way, if any of you "knowing" alcoholics out there have reference to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous , you will know that what I am saying comes straight from there, not personal opinion.
Any oldtimers out there will also tell you, rehabs don't work and neither does the AA that is in operation today. It was dwindling fast when I was in there. Fortunately I had a sponsor who has been sober for over thirty years now and she taught the old school.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 7:26:35 PM
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Qtman
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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I have gone back and studied the posts in this thread and the other thread about Christians and alcohol. I don't really know what we are debating. I think we all need to step back, take a few deep breaths and look closely at what each other is or has said. I did and this is what I found.
At some point in time we all said alcoholism was a weakness. Brought on by bad choices we make.
We have all said is is an addiction.
We have all said one way or another the alcoholic must realize the problem and choose to remedy the problem by whatever sources are available.
Some say it is a disease some say it is not. Some say we don't catch alcoholism we choose to drink leading to alcoholism. I can say the same thing for several diseases. I may not chose to have cancer which I think no-one will argue is a disease. But I may chose to smoke which could likely lead to cancer. No one choses to be an alcoholic or an addict but they do chose to do things which lead to the addiction.
At some point an addiction can and does become a disease. Maybe not something physical like cancer but mentally. It is still a disease. One argued that with a disease when you quit what caused it the disease did not go away. I have never worked with alcoholics but I have worked with a few drug addicts. I can tell you that short of Divine intervention an addict is never cured. He may be clean, dry, or whatever but he is not cured. I do know a couple of drug addicts and one alcoholic that claim to have been delivered from the bondage by God and I believe them. They have never entered into that life style again.
I am addicted to nicotine. I know Jimbo used to be a smoker and that deliveredarling is a recovered alcoholic. But I would be willing to bet that Jimbo is one cigarette away from addiction just as deliveredarling is probably one drink away from alcoholism. You see addictions can be controlled but not completely cured unless it is a God thing.
I said all of that to say this, if you read all the post carefully you will realize we are all arguing the same points.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 7:34:18 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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Excellent post Qtman and thank you for your insight.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 7:57:02 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17900
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: online
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If I may just interject, and posting in general here, is anyone aware of what the 12-steps in AA is? The first one is admitting that you are powerless over achohol and surrendering to a "higher power" greater than yourself for help.
Step 8 is: making an inventory of people who you have hurt while drinking and making going back and making ammends to them.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 8:11:59 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
The first one is admitting that you are powerless over achohol and surrendering to a "higher power" greater than yourself for help.
Hi humble,
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable.
quote:
Step 8 is: making an inventory of people who you have hurt while drinking and making going back and making ammends to them.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
I'm not sure what your question is. Are you wanting a list of the 12 steps?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 8:14:06 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10086
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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I don't think he had a question. I think he was just pointing out those two steps.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 8:20:49 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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Do you happen to know why? Obviously I am lost or missing it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 8:22:04 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17900
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: online
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Yes, in light of this thread for clarification purposes I was listing 2 of the 12 steps so that people know that it isn't something they just do of themselves, nor that alcoholism is a sinless thing either.
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/21/2008 9:14:51 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17217
Joined: 2/28/2005
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quote:
I also don't care if someone takes what I've offered or not. It's what worked for me, I can't say how Joe blow down the street did it now can I? I can only speak from my own personal experience.
It seems like you are posting as the authority because you've been there. But it's only your experience.
Jimbo's experience with cigs will be different that Sam's.
The same could be said with those involved with alcohol.
Threads like this are difficult because it gets personal stories involved.
Oh, I just read this somewhere else but it fits here, Quoting Sharon-Marie about a different issue entirely:
quote:
There's an old saying in Twelfth Step Recovery Groups . . . "Principles before Personalities" . . . which basically means to discuss the actual issue; don't make it about the person.
_____________________________
"It's going to be bad around here when the cows come home to roost."
Dilbert's TRUE QUOTES FROM INDUHVIDUALS
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 7:08:34 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
I also don't care if someone takes what I've offered or not. It's what worked for me, I can't say how Joe blow down the street did it now can I? I can only speak from my own personal experience.
It seems like you are posting as the authority because you've been there. But it's only your experience.
Jimbo's experience with cigs will be different that Sam's.
The same could be said with those involved with alcohol.
Threads like this are difficult because it gets personal stories involved.
Oh, I just read this somewhere else but it fits here, Quoting Sharon-Marie about a different issue entirely:
quote:
There's an old saying in Twelfth Step Recovery Groups . . . "Principles before Personalities" . . . which basically means to discuss the actual issue; don't make it about the person.
Not trying to make this about me. However, like I said earlier, I appear to be the only recovered alcoholic replying.
The principals before personalities does not mean it's making it about the person. It means we hold our principals above anyone's personality because there are a vast number of personalities with a working group conscience.
I can tell you the program works, if you work it. Not trying to step on anyone's toes here. But a person who is not an alcoholic can not tell you about an alcoholic.
There is bad information for a person who wants or needs recovery being presented here by people who "know" but won't say how they know. There is no credibility there. I'm not going to listen to a person tell me how to fly a plane who has never flown one. That would be crazy, huh?
A person can get sober but that doesn't mean they are "cured". It just means they no longer have alcohol in their system. That's a dry drunk and they are just as toxic. The only thing different about them is the lack of alcohol, all other behavior remains the same.
"But the ex-problem drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished."
Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, pg 18
People encounter alcoholics every day and don't know it. If an alcoholic were to run up against some of the person's on this forum, there would be no helping that alcoholic with the biases and prejudices here. They face those in ever day life, much less desire to hear it from a person they are seeking help from. The opportunity to minister would be lost. Understanding what you are dealing with is a good place to start.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Alcoholism: Disease, Addiction, or Weakness? - 8/22/2008 9:27:28 AM
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Ruthie
Posts: 72
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Center of the Universe, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
You are not supposed to suddenly stop taking seritonin reuptake inhibitors.
It can cause an emotional crash.
You have to wean off of them slowly, under a doctor's care.
Bluestone, thank you for your kind concern. I actually am under a doctor's care. Unfortunately, I'm apparently very sensitive to paxil and even weaning slowly is hard. Wish my doctor would have warned me of this possibility.
I'm feeling better today. Reading the Gospel of Luke last night helped.
Everyone, please accept my apologies. I should not have entered into this discussion when I was in such an unstable mood, on a subject that is a sore spot. I certainly should not have been so hostile.
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