|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 12:19:20 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5939
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
Are the discussions below your standards?
I was speaking to the format... You were here before they bottled up all that is Reformed Theology into one thread? And many people who are far, far better at explaining Reformed Theology than myself have left because of the change of format...
quote:
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
There's no precious election here!
This is a verse about the regenerative power of God.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the
uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him,
having forgiven you all trespasses;
No election here either, just a great message of regeneration.
You said....
But the fact remains that man must respond and he responds as a sinner
in need of redemption, not as a person mysteriously regenerated apriori.
The verses posted speak of man being raised from a another state with no mention response needed in order for God to do so...
quote:
Why is the opposite of grace works?
Romans 9 is clear that God doesn't show mercy because man does good or bad. Why must you insert man having to do something in order for God to act? My guess is mans sense of judgment that in order for one to receive something of vaule he either must be worthy and or pay some price... Well... Christ paid the price in full and man is never worthy...
quote:
"What shall we do to be saved?" - Isn't that a biblical question?
Yes, but to natural man it what? Foolishness....
quote:
Is this true? God draws ------->Man must respond.
All this given to the Son will come... That is true...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 12:36:15 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
David's life is quite captivating...
David maintains his faith and hope in God by clinging to the prospect that God perhaps in His abundant mercy may yet save his baby. David will not eat, or bathe, his servants leave him alone. The baby dies. David abruptly bathes, puts on lotions, and eats. At no time did David doubt God, or in God's mercy.
My point-if David knew of God's past mercy, and was hoping for mercy towards his infant, certainly he understood that mercy was also extended towards him regardless of his actions. This is where some people struggle, in the area of "known, willful, sin". But all sin is such is it not ? Good points, Manna. Now I see why you disagree with Lordship Salvationists : ) It is a wrong position and very dangerous, because it’s hypocrisy. LS movement people would readily dismiss K David and Solomon salvation as nonexistent if they lived in their time :) "Look - they commit adultery and murder and worship other gods! David and Sol still sin, while saying they believe God, those liars, they cant be saved  !"
Yes I fully agree with you – we all , including Paul do what we don’t want to, but all of us have sin we haven’t overcome yet.
quote:
If your sin and mine is already forgiven...past/present/future, then it's a done deal. Some see this as a license to sin. And any of those "some" would have ever set a foot on this thread I would not even grant them the privilege of my attention. Nobody thank God said yet here that forgiveness is a license to sin or anything implying that.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 12:36:46 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
If God elects based on his own sovereign choice, why
did Paul add "before either had done good or evil"?
I think it is because that is the basis of God's judgment: our deeds.
Im baffled as to how you could have come to that conclusion.
I've already rethought it.
I don't think this verse has application to Original Sin.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 12:40:31 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rwe2156
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Clarification: Open unrepentant sin.
Example: Boyfriend and Girlfriend living together, yet they go to church,
but don't see anything wrong with what they're doing.
Are they baby Christians?
And if the couple in question were to die in a car crash tomorrow before turning away from their " continual, unrepentant sin" would they still be saved? If Kind solomon would have died before (supposedly, but lets say he did ) would he still be saved? If David , etc.?
Theos , the question is for you 
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 12:58:54 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I was speaking to the format... You were here before they bottled up all that is Reformed Theology into one thread? And many people who are far, far better at explaining Reformed Theology than myself have left because of the change of format...
You can't talk about Calvinism unless you talk about the whole TULIP
because each pillar of the doctrine relies on its nabor to hold up the
.............structure (I'll be nice here).
quote:
The verses posted speak of man being raised from a another state
with no mention response needed in order for God to do so...
Implicit in the drawing is a response, lest we are all nothing more
than Pavlovian "Stepford" creatures.
I think this is fundamental to the understanding of covenant.
We are "saved from another state" just as much as "raised", no?
Here we go - you can't talk about election without talking about depravity.
quote:
RWE: Why is the opposite of grace works?
Romans 9 is clear that God doesn't show mercy because man does good or bad.
Why must you insert man having to do something in order for God to act?
Man does play a part in his salvation because he must respond.
It shows God's election (for purpose) is sovereign and not based on works.
I say the Holy Spirit draws men to repentance, but men refuse (for a variety of reasons).
quote:
My guess is mans sense of judgment that in order for one to receive
something of vaule he either must be worthy and or pay some price...
Well... Christ paid the price in full and man is never worthy...
I don't know why you think I believe this.
quote:
RWE: "What shall we do to be saved?" - Isn't that a biblical question?
Yes, but to natural man it what? Foolishness....
Your theology says the fact they asked this they were already saved.
My theology says they asked it because they believed in their hearts.
My theology also says the order of salvation is
1. repent/believe
2. THEN we receive the Holy Spirit.
If you could prove to me that in this "pre-salvation" regeneration
has nothing to do with being born again, you could win me over.
quote:
Is this true? God draws ------->Man must respond.
All this given to the Son will come... That is true...
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 1:08:51 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
LS movement people would readily dismiss K David and Solomon salvation
as nonexistent if they lived in their time :) "Look - they commit adultery and
murder and worship other gods! David and Sol still sin, while saying they believe
God, those liars, they cant be saved !"
Oh my dear Dear, please help me understand.
Christ is my Savior and my Lord. Is this a bad thing? Unbiblical?
I don't believe this makes my theology anything like what you just described.
Do the LS types promote sinless perfection (hereafter ref to as "SP") - I haven't seen this.
I thought LS was tied to Perseverance.
Please correct if I am wrong.
quote:
If your sin and mine is already forgiven...past/present/future, then it's a done deal.
Some see this as a license to sin.
And any of those "some" would have ever set a foot on this thread I would not even grant them the privilege of my attention. Nobody thank God said yet here that forgiveness is a license to sin or anything implying that.
Why does a saved person repent even all the more?
New relation to sin, dear, not self-flagellating, beating chest "I'm a poor sinner" - no!
I don't usu. ask God to forgive my sins (even though Jesus taught us to pray
that away ) - as much as I am asking for renewal of the mind -
I'm asking God to continually bring about repentance in my mind,
my desire is to walk closely with him, and I can't do that if I
am wilfully and continually sinning.
Are you one who thinks "saved from" to exclusion of "saved for"?
Hope not.
God Bless. Have a happy day.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 2:00:15 PM
|
|
|
TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
David's life is quite captivating...
David maintains his faith and hope in God by clinging to the prospect that God perhaps in His abundant mercy may yet save his baby. David will not eat, or bathe, his servants leave him alone. The baby dies. David abruptly bathes, puts on lotions, and eats. At no time did David doubt God, or in God's mercy.
My point-if David knew of God's past mercy, and was hoping for mercy towards his infant, certainly he understood that mercy was also extended towards him regardless of his actions. This is where some people struggle, in the area of "known, willful, sin". But all sin is such is it not ? Good points, Manna. Now I see why you disagree with Lordship Salvationists : ) It is a wrong position and very dangerous, because it’s hypocrisy. LS movement people would readily dismiss K David and Solomon salvation as nonexistent if they lived in their time :) "Look - they commit adultery and murder and worship other gods! David and Sol still sin, while saying they believe God, those liars, they cant be saved !"
Yes I fully agree with you – we all , including Paul do what we don’t want to, but all of us have sin we haven’t overcome yet.
quote:
If your sin and mine is already forgiven...past/present/future, then it's a done deal. Some see this as a license to sin. And any of those "some" would have ever set a foot on this thread I would not even grant them the privilege of my attention. Nobody thank God said yet here that forgiveness is a license to sin or anything implying that.
Hold on there, Del. LS does not promote sinless perfectionism.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 2:05:18 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Christ is my Savior and my Lord. Is this a bad thing? Unbiblical?
I don't believe this makes my theology anything like what you just described.
What do I think of substanceless preacherese, buddy?
(Keep using it and you fellows wil spook away the last woman in your frat joint).
Who’s denies that phrase? Benny Hinn,Namers-and-Claimers and such all profess that.
Promiscuous couple in Theos example is, as he suspects, not saved. Based on the fact they still sin. So , as I tried to explain, was Sol and David and per his own admission, Paul. Unless that couple denies that what they do is sin- which would show their unfamiliarity with the gospel, and would indicate they might not be believers - they are just that, Sinning Christians, not unsaved as claimed.
What about Peter? Imagine on Sunday "have you heard? our Deacon Pete Simonoff just chopped a man's ear with a sword!"
you like explained, friend? In more plain English.To the point.
__________
hmm...I gotta go grab some lunch or something. I am turning into a mean vicious she dog.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 2:11:38 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
LS does not promote sinless perfectionism.
Honestly i never even thought that, TC. I think the whole argument LS and FG shouldnt be even an issue, for LS basically addresses the importance of Preaching Obedience and FG addresses the importance of knowing that We Cant Sin our salvation Away.
THey both have their applications in the life and theology of a believer. There is certain synergy of the both teachings that will make it a nice bypartisan solution, pleasing to everybody
Kick me out of here, now. I start taking like i am running for Senate. Or planning to open a call girl service (essentially the same thing)
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 2:20:45 PM
|
|
|
TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
Christ is my Savior and my Lord. Is this a bad thing? Unbiblical?
I don't believe this makes my theology anything like what you just described.
What do I think of substanceless preacherese, buddy?
(Keep using it and you fellows wil spook away the last woman in your frat joint).
Who’s denies that phrase? Benny Hinn,Namers-and-Claimers and such all profess that.
Promiscuous couple in Theos example is, as he suspects, not saved. Based on the fact they still sin. So , as I tried to explain, was Sol and David and per his own admission, Paul. Unless that couple denies that what they do is sin- which would show their unfamiliarity with the gospel, and would indicate they might not be believers - they are just that, Sinning Christians, not unsaved as claimed.
What about Peter? Imagine on Sunday "have you heard? our Deacon Pete Simonoff just chopped a man's ear with a sword!"
you like explained, friend? In more plain English.To the point.
__________
hmm...I gotta go grab some lunch or something. I am turning into a mean vicious she dog.
You missed my point about them not having conviction of sin. Today's society, and Christianity for that matter, says "What convicts you, convicts you, what convicts me, convicts me." Sad, but true. The Bible says we are to go to people like this, second time, take two or threee, third time, tell it to the church, fourth time, treat them as an unbeliever.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 3:16:28 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
What do I think of substanceless preacherese, buddy?
(Keep using it and you fellows wil spook away the last woman in your frat joint).
I think there's more to it that I don't know.
Labels are dangerous anyway.
Besides that, nobody can put me in a box, so whatever all
LS entails, if it is sinless perfection, thats not me.
quote:
Promiscuous couple in Theos example is, as he suspects, not saved.
I don't believe that.
quote:
Unless that couple denies that what they do is sin-
which would show their unfamiliarity with the gospel, and
would indicate they might not be believers -
they are just that, Sinning Christians, not unsaved as claimed.
Truth is we can never know who are wheat and who are tares.
Fruit can be faked and fruit can be delayed.
But a sweet (like you, dear) Spirit cannot - you couldn't
be a vicious she-dog - you might do a fair job of faking it, though...........
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 3:26:02 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
LS basically addresses the importance of Preaching Obedience and FG addresses
the importance of knowing that We Cant Sin our salvation Away.
THey both have their applications in the life and theology of a believer.
There is certain synergy of the both teachings that will make it a nice
bypartisan solution, pleasing to everybody
There is a tension here that I like:
Willingly Obedient <------------------------>Unwillingly Sinful
(Flesh/Spirit)_________________________(Flesh/Spirit)
"Knowing we can't sin our salvation away" maybe true, but dangerous.
Would you tell that to a new drug addicted convert? I think not!
Nor would you tell them if they are disobedient they are not saved.
quote:
I start taking like i am running for Senate.
Is that like "preacherese" or just flat out lying?
quote:
Or planning to open a call girl service (essentially the same thing)
Willingly or with remorse?
Or not till the $$$ start rolling in, especially if you get elected!
Of course, with this economy, maybe the real bad sinners will be cutting back...................
Best rethink this one, my dear.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 3:35:27 PM
|
|
|
rwe2156
Posts: 2472
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Today's society, and Christianity for that matter, says "What convicts you, convicts you,
what convicts me, convicts me." Sad, but true. The Bible says we are to go to people like
this, second time, take two or threee, third time, tell it to the church, fourth time, treat
them as an unbeliever.
Here is another tension:
Loving Admonishment<---------------------->Spiritual Discipline
Hard to know which one. Been there, done that - not easy, either
because "Who am I?" comes into play.
Unrepentant, ongoing, illicitness or immorality indicates fundamental problem,
possibly a deceived one who has "named it and claimed it".
OSAS heretical doctrine/false man-centered teaching justifies one like this.
If my sin is laid lovingly at my doorstep, I don't recognize it? I don't want to change?
I already knew it was wrong - it was written on my heart - but now confronted, I am not repentant?
Is this the heart condition of a true believer?
I'm on TC's side with this one, but perhaps erring on the side of love -
Isn't that how we treat an unbeliever: love them to the Lord.
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 3:40:08 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Today's society, and Christianity for that matter, says "What convicts you, convicts you, what convicts me, convicts me." Sad, but true. The Bible says we are to go to people like this, second time, take two or threee, third time, tell it to the church, fourth time, treat them as an unbeliever.
Treating them as unbeliver and them being an unbeliver are 2 different things. Church discipline is church discipline, but the salvation status of a person is only known to God, not us. Solomon would have been kicked out of the church in his late days - yet we claim now he was in fact a believer
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 3:52:48 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
"Knowing we can't sin our salvation away" maybe true, but dangerous.
Would you tell that to a new drug addicted convert? I think not!
If you need to know the difference b/n "preacherese" or just flat out lying your "maybe true, but" is just that the combination of lying and preacherese.
I wont lie and re-adjust the gospel talking to a drug addict or anyone just for the dubious benefit of influencing them.THis is what American christianity of today is doing -lying to reach certain goals . "The goal justifies the means, lying is good if its for a good goal" idea is against my moral values. I stand by my belief that we cant sin salvation away, if salvation is really exists , we are not just imagining it.
I hope you wont lie in said case of talking to drug addict (or anyone) either.
Drug addict convert , if he knows that what he does is sin and fights it, is doing the same thing you and me are doing- fighting the sins we struggle with. We don't overcome them overnight though. Neither does he. What does that have to do with his salvation status?
DA convert that does NOT consider his addiction to be sin is another issue - see my explanation about the promiscious couple, i already addressed it.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 3:53:21 PM
|
|
|
TheosCentric
Posts: 2036
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
|
The following was posted on the Desiring God blog the other day:
Grace Is Resistible...Until It's Not
...toward the end...
The point of irresistible grace is not that we can’t resist. We can and we do. The point is that when God chooses, he overcomes our resistance and restores a submissive spirit. He creates. He says, “Let there be light!” He heals. He leads. He restores. He comforts.
Therefore we never boast that we have returned from backsliding. We fall on our faces before the Lord and with trembling joy thank him for his irresistible grace.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 4:07:09 PM
|
|
|
tdd1975
Posts: 425
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Then I would suggest you "realize" incorrectly. There is absolutely no reason to exclude faith in Christ in Gal 5:22 other than because of one's own theological presuppositions. Saving faith is not innate in man nor do all men have it. It is the gift of God and operates through the work of the Holy Spirit - fruit.
I agree with you Kelman. Paul is contrasting works of the flesh with fruit of the Spirit. That which comes natural to man is works of the flesh. If I have any faith, goodness, love etc, then it came from the Spirit not me.
Paul isn't making any distinction of saving faith and faithulness either because he says in chapter three.
(Galatians 3:3) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
We began in the Spirit and we will finish in the Spirit.
_____________________________
(Isaiah 33:17) Your eyes will behold the king in his beauty;
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 4:29:25 PM
|
|
|
tdd1975
Posts: 425
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
I never said it was.
All I have ever said is man is able to repent.
I don't believe repent = believe, either.
They are two sides of the same coin, but not identical.
I am trying to stay away from this thing but I hav a nagging question I have to ask.
How does one repent without believing?
I mean why would one repent of something they don't believe is wrong in the first place?
When I witness to people, I find that generally they believe they are either to good to be saved or that they have sinned to much and can't be saved.
Aren't both of these unbelief?
One more that is nagging me.
Something Free said the other day about believing in Phi 1:29 being a request granted.
How do you ask for faith apart from faith?
I am thinking of the man who told Jesus "Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief".
You have to have some amount of faith to request more faith.
_____________________________
(Isaiah 33:17) Your eyes will behold the king in his beauty;
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 5:21:43 PM
|
|
|
shemaromans
Posts: 3751
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
|
If you have 30 minutes here and 30 minutes there, you should listen to the broadcasts linked below. Start with "All Christians Believe in Predestination Part I" from 10/2 listed in the Audio Archives and follow up with "All Christians Believe in Predestination Part II" from 10/3 just above the Part I.
I won't list the teacher's name because I know that some of you might immediately dismiss the idea of listening. It's well worth your time, though.
_____________________________
"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 6:09:10 PM
|
|
|
Odeliya
Posts: 2485
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Rwe:
Besides that, nobody can put me in a box
thats what you think.,
in about , maximum, 60 years or so - watch them.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 6:57:53 PM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2972
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tdd1975
One more that is nagging me.
Something Free said the other day about believing in Phi 1:29 being a request granted.
How do you ask for faith apart from faith?
I am thinking of the man who told Jesus "Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief".
You have to have some amount of faith to request more faith.
Good question...
Our dear brothers continue to see this differently.
Whatever opinion one has is one's business...
But, The Bible is clear...faith in Christ originates from Christ.
There very well may be another type of lesser faith a man might believe himself to have, but it is not salvific. Faith in God must come from God. This is how God says it happens. Granted a man has to believe, and God will make the man willing and able, by bringing him to the point of belief, while equipping man with the strength and desire to believe. Ultimately, the man will believe because God has made it so.
Hebrews 12:2 (English Standard Version)
2looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith,(A) who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising(B) the shame, and(C) is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2 (New American Standard Bible)
2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the (A)author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him (B)endured the cross, (C)despising the shame, and has (D)sat down at the right hand of the throne of God
Hebrews 12:2 (Darby Translation)
2looking stedfastly on Jesus the leader and completer of faith:who, in view of the joy lying before him, endured [the] cross, having despised [the] shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2 (Amplified Bible)
2Looking away [from all that will distract] to Jesus, Who is the Leader and the Source of our faith [giving the first incentive for our belief] and is also its Finisher [bringing it to maturity and perfection]. He, for the joy [of obtaining the prize] that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising and ignoring the shame, and is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God.(A)
Perfect faith in a Holy God cannot originate within an imperfect, ungodly sinner-
Man lacks the ingredients, the know how, and the ability to create his own faith.
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 7:12:37 PM
|
|
|
shemaromans
Posts: 3751
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Thank you for your support and kind words, KJB and Manna (excellent last post, btw). I'll try to hang in here but might disappear from time to time for two reasons: (1) lack of time and (2) an avoidance of sinning.
_____________________________
"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 7:23:28 PM
|
|
|
Mannamuncher
Posts: 2972
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Today's society, and Christianity for that matter, says "What convicts you, convicts you, what convicts me, convicts me." Sad, but true. The Bible says we are to go to people like this, second time, take two or threee, third time, tell it to the church, fourth time, treat them as an unbeliever.
Treating them as unbeliver and them being an unbeliver are 2 different things. Church discipline is church discipline, but the salvation status of a person is only known to God, not us. Solomon would have been kicked out of the church in his late days - yet we claim now he was in fact a believer
Greetings in Christ Jesus my dear sister !
Many these days appear to wear the God-police badge.
Manna's sin pile keeps me occupied and humbled-
The Lord knows those souls that are His.
None are qualified to see or judge a man's heart.
Romans 14:3-5 (King James Version)
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
_____________________________
Effectus non excedit virtutem suae causae [the effect cannot exceed the power of its cause]
Grace may be free, but it may not be chosen...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2008 7:25:49 PM
|
|
|
shemaromans
Posts: 3751
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
Shema:
My church (Christian Reformed--CRC) baptise | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
