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Pastor-Dale -> The Pharisees of old (8/9/2008 9:17:58 PM)

The Pharisees of old

While many churches and church leaders are putting a lot of time and effort into helping people that are hurting and going through broken relationships. It seems to me that we are failing to deal with one of the most devastating sins of all; the raping and molesting of children! 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 6 boys will be raped or molested by the time they are 18! And the statistics are showing that this sin is as bad if not worse in the church! If these statistics are correct, is it any wonder that we are loosing generation after generation. Is it any wonder that many of the same children that grew up in church are cutting themselves, doing drugs, drinking alcohol etc. We are so quick to stand in the pulpit and condemn these kids because of all the things they are doing. Have we ever stopped to consider that the abuse that the church has allowed to happen for generations, and is still allowing to happen even now, may be one of the major causes of these self destructive behaviors?
When will the body of Christ wake up and realize that we must take a stand against this evil in our midst! When Paul referred to the sinning believer in 1Cor. 5:1, he stated that his sin was such that it was not even named among the gentiles! Most church leaders seem to believe that the world despises us because we are followers of Christ, but could it be that it is because we are no different than the pharisees of Jesus' day! Graves that look nice on the out side but inside we are full of rottenness and evil. Before we quickly try to justify ourselves, we should ask ourselves a few questions. When is the last time we have spoken out against the raping and molesting of children by people in the church? what are we doing today to hold these offenders accountable for what they have done?
The truth is that the church today is little better than the pharisees of old and little better than the offenders who commit such atrocities against the very children God has put into our care!
Is it any wonder that the church seems powerless to impact our society for Christ! We are too busy defending excusing or ignoring this unthinkable evil in our midst.

Dale & Faith Ingraham



lightshineon -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/9/2008 9:45:58 PM)

That is truth, though not all problems stem from the church. It is true that background checks, and watchful eyes are very necessary in the house of God ( sadly).



slimon11 -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/10/2008 12:50:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pastor-Dale

The Pharisees of old

While many churches and church leaders are putting a lot of time and effort into helping people that are hurting and going through broken relationships. It seems to me that we are failing to deal with one of the most devastating sins of all; the raping and molesting of children! 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 6 boys will be raped or molested by the time they are 18! And the statistics are showing that this sin is as bad if not worse in the church! If these statistics are correct, is it any wonder that we are loosing generation after generation. Is it any wonder that many of the same children that grew up in church are cutting themselves, doing drugs, drinking alcohol etc. We are so quick to stand in the pulpit and condemn these kids because of all the things they are doing. Have we ever stopped to consider that the abuse that the church has allowed to happen for generations, and is still allowing to happen even now, may be one of the major causes of these self destructive behaviors?
When will the body of Christ wake up and realize that we must take a stand against this evil in our midst! When Paul referred to the sinning believer in 1Cor. 5:1, he stated that his sin was such that it was not even named among the gentiles! Most church leaders seem to believe that the world despises us because we are followers of Christ, but could it be that it is because we are no different than the pharisees of Jesus' day! Graves that look nice on the out side but inside we are full of rottenness and evil. Before we quickly try to justify ourselves, we should ask ourselves a few questions. When is the last time we have spoken out against the raping and molesting of children by people in the church? what are we doing today to hold these offenders accountable for what they have done?
The truth is that the church today is little better than the pharisees of old and little better than the offenders who commit such atrocities against the very children God has put into our care!
Is it any wonder that the church seems powerless to impact our society for Christ! We are too busy defending excusing or ignoring this unthinkable evil in our midst.

Dale & Faith Ingraham

Thank you. In fact, this is exactly the kind of things I was thinking of when I posted a question in the church section eariler today about these sort of pharisee like attitutes. I work at a shelter for abused women and childern. I have heard so many stories and reasons people have walked away from God.

They have gone to church, only to be judged for their baggage. Why would they want to go back? I am not so much addressing abuse while attending church but, many people have been abused by someone claiming to be Christian. I recently spoke with a young woman who's father was abusive and a pastor. Needless to say, she wasn't too big on Christianity.

I think we just have to learn to deal with the pharisee type attitutes, they will be around forever. I think there is even a story, (I can't remember all the details right now or where it is, maybe someone could help). The pharisees were trying to tell the disciples that they couldn't do something. Jesus basically said, why are you aruging with them, just keep on doing what you know you are called to do.

Never argue with a pharisee, just keep on walking. That's what I've learned. The church I attended didn't see me fit to serve in anyway, even to lead a craft group. Both God and I knew better and, God put me in a job where I have an overload of chances to minister. Maybe they couldn't get past the fact that I am a single mom. But, that is when you keep on walking, stop caring what people think and do what God called you to do. Thank you, Dale and Faith on behalf of all of those who seen darkness. Thank you!!



SonInMe1 -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/10/2008 12:59:43 AM)

The only way to exclude the world's problems from the church is to exclude...

people from it.

Many people who come to the Lord have been "convinced" by their lifestyles and choices. There.....are.....a....lot....of....nuts.....in.....the....church.....and that is a GOOD thing.

Certainly these problems need to be addressed and soem simpke rules would cure the problem. Accountability. Respect. Responsibility.

Background checks. Never being alone with a member of the opposite sex. Real sermons.



slimon11 -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/10/2008 1:11:12 AM)

I agree, in fact, in my job I have met many many people who have told me their stories of abuse. I have only met one or two people who were actually abused while at church. But 1 in 3 girls and 1 in 6 boys is no lie! Next time you go to church look to the person sitting to your left and then to your right. One of you has been abused, if you are in a church, there is a good chance one of you has been abused by someone that claims to be a Christian.

The issue I see as the bigger problem is how troubled people are treated by us as Christians. Do we lack empathy? Are we too quick to judge someone who's shoes we haven't walked in? A Christian that treats a new Christian or a non-believer without love and compassion can send that person running for another path, any path.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

That is truth, though not all problems stem from the church.



zamdad -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/10/2008 4:09:14 AM)

quote:

We are so quick to stand in the pulpit and condemn these kids because of all the things they are doing. Have we ever stopped to consider that the abuse that the church has allowed to happen for generations, and is still allowing to happen even now, may be one of the major causes of these self destructive behaviors?


Perhaps this is because we no longer disciple one another. We have evangelism and outreach and all these other programs to minister to people, yet we lack the one thing we desperately want from other people: relationship. OUr programs give us things to do to keep us busy, but we are too busy to look under the masks of those closest to us.

While the problem is in the church, labeling it as "the church" makes it seem as if it's only within the four walls of the building. The problem is occurring in homes all around us. There are people living in families professing to follow Christ, yet there are dark, dirty secrets being kept within those homes. Whether the abuse is happening within those walls or elsewhere, if a child is afraid to tell a parent or other adult it's because that child knows they can't trust others.

If uncle Joey is molesting little Johnny and telling Johnny to keep a secret, Johnny becomes afraid of his parents reaction. Wil they believe me? They've known uncle Joey longer than they've had me. They really love uncle Joey. If I tell, the family will be ripped apart. besides, uncle Joey gives me coll things to keep quiet.

If we, the church,are going to address this issue, it has to begin in our homes. We have to get over our fear of talking about sex and sexuality. We have to talk about it from God's word and teach our kids that it's about the developement of healthy relationships, not just the act.

It's more than just speaking out about abuse. It's developing the kind of relationships with the type of love the Bible says we are to ahve for one another.



JamesL5 -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/13/2008 5:40:44 PM)

In my opinion, the Pharisees of old were basically the hypocrites. People who did all the talking but couldn't back it up with their actions. And people who say one thing but does exactly the opposite.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/13/2008 6:44:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JamesL5
In my opinion, the Pharisees of old were basically the hypocrites. People who did all the talking but couldn't back it up with their actions. And people who say one thing but does exactly the opposite.

Only some -- not all of them.



Cloak -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/14/2008 8:30:43 PM)

And those Pharisees do still exist today: both inside & outside the church.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/14/2008 8:31:55 PM)

Awww! That's not fair, you see?

Oh, well. At least they're not sad, you see.



Cloak -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/14/2008 9:52:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

quote:

ORIGINAL: JamesL5
In my opinion, the Pharisees of old were basically the hypocrites. People who did all the talking but couldn't back it up with their actions. And people who say one thing but does exactly the opposite.

Only some -- not all of them.



Well I believe since Jesus condemned the Pharisees because they were nice Only on the outside, but their hearts were corrupted. The Bible never referred to them as only partially or only part of them.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/15/2008 12:01:00 AM)

Well, you're nicer than most, in their condemnation of the Pharisees! Not all of them were like that, however. He didn't condemn all Pharisees; He condemned the guilty ones among those he was speaking to at the time.



lightshineon -> RE: The Pharisees of old (8/15/2008 2:03:54 AM)

Have we not all been hypocrites, at one time? I hope not to the extent of causing permenent damage to a little one. I know how wicked I am, I know I need forgivness every day. Thank Goodness for the blood of Christ, and that I am a work in progress.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

Well, you're nicer than most, in their condemnation of the Pharisees! Not all of them were like that, however. He didn't condemn all Pharisees; He condemned the guilty ones among those he was speaking to at the time.



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