Should churches hire staff from inside or out of the church?
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/8/2008 10:51:43 AM
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stampinlady
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quote:
Should church staff and ministers be members of the church before hiring?
Yes. We are to be "like minded."
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/8/2008 10:57:20 AM
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KatMack
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From: Along the Canopy Roads
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Thanks for starting this one, bluestone. I was contemplating doing it myself.
I really think it needs to be a case-by-case, church-by-church decision. I can only speak from my personal experience. I work for my church home, so my comments will come from that angle.
There are many advantages to hiring members, but it requires a STRONG leader. I know that it wouldn't work around here if our administrator weren't such a "Godly Bulldog" for us and for the congregation. Ex. I used to have problems with members roping me into doing work on Sunday mornings. A little favor here and a little favor there and next thing you know, Sunday's done and you haven't been to Bible Study or Worship Service! When JIB started, he sat me down and we talked about strategies to kindly say no. It worked wonderfully, protecting my "civilian" time and not upsetting or offending the congregation.
Another area that takes a strong hand is the potential for gossip. I must confess that there have been moments when I've been tempted to share something I learned in the office, but our good ol' personell manual and a few bad examples have put me off that. Our manual lays out specifically that gossipping is a firing offense and I've seen it happen at least once.
--Kat
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<-- My sweet blessings.
"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/8/2008 11:44:27 AM
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DaveW
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There are different ways of looking at this. Most churches I have attended the staff was all members of the congregation. I do know many who forbid members from being staff members. The 3 synagogues I used to visit in South Bend IN all had catholic secretaries. My MIL (Assembly of God) was a secretary for a Methodist church for a while.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/8/2008 2:12:33 PM
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JustJeannie
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I am a secretary at the Presbyterian Church two towns over from where I live. I attend a Southern Baptist Church in my hometown. I think this is the best solution, because the congregation of the church where I work KNOW I am a Christian but also realize that I am NOT in the middle of everything there. I do not attend any of the meetings or services, so I can HONESTLY say that I don't know everything going on with "Ms. So-N-So". I feel it would be more stressful to me to work in my home church!
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/8/2008 9:44:32 PM
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PureLight
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lol, I don't see it being a problem, our secretary is the head pastor's daughter and she doesn't know everything that's going on. She's usually surprised at a lot of stuff.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/9/2008 5:57:00 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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As many know, I do not attend the church that hired me. I got the job because my husband, who does attend and is on the board, told me that they were thinking that they may hire a secretary. I wanted to see if I could work after a too-long recovery from two auto accidents. It was an opportunity for me to help them out and for me to find out if I could work.
Four years ago, I applied by offering my services free for a month, and at the end of that month, I knew I could work again, and they hired me. At the time, they had no pastor, so when they chose one, he changed my job to a more-encompassing one -- that of administrative assistant.
I love my job, and part of what I love about it is the fact that there is a certain separation that results from my not being a member there, and that is beneficial to both the pastor and the church. There are certain churches I would not work for because of severe doctrinal differences, but I am fine where I work, and the church is very tolerant toward my beliefs and my need for certain holy days off. They live out their own love in that.
As churches go through recession with everyone else, the thought is often that my job could be on the line. That is difficult. But many others are in the same position.
(Ha-ha! Another benefit is for a young pastor to hire someone who is nearly old enough to be his mother. No possible hanky panky (at least in most cases!) and no suspicion of hanky panky (in most cases)! It helps, too, to hire someone who cares enough about her own family and who cares enough about the pastor and his family, as well as the church, that they wouldn't do anything to hurt any of them, thus no hanky panky.)
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/9/2008 9:56:25 PM
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lightshineon
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Well my DD, a part time cleaning girl, just quit. She is young works two jobs one at our church, and one at her school in the Art department. She has lost all, I mean all respect for our pastor who has harassed and abused her. He ceased becoming her pastor, and became her employer. One exzample he called her back to the church, which is slightly out of town, to get gum out of a urinal, that had been spit in after she cleaned and had left. He makes her wash every door knob in a huge church with soap and water. he said he found a finger print on the door, and another woman ( nursery worker) had to clean it. Why couldn't h? And the gum. His two year old beats on the doors after cleaning. He had her while at church ( not on the clock) come clean a cappacino spill by some little girls. He spilled sugar, on the floor earlier in the day, and waited for her to come clean it up  She does an excellent job, but, the money she made is not worth her spiritual well-being. I just think in most cases it is not good, especially for the very young. I am working with her, and talking to her about love, and seeing the best in people, and pastor. Please say a prayer for her, and pastor.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
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Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/10/2008 7:42:35 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
Should church staff and ministers be members of the church before hiring?
Yes. We are to be "like minded."
On the surface it seems like a good idea, but I have to ask a question. If you were in the church 5 days a week, 8 hours a day working, would you be eager to go back to your workplace to worship? A lot of people wouldn't. If I were a pastor (and I may very well be a pastor some day) I would take that into consideration.
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You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/10/2008 9:30:20 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
I have to ask a question. If you were in the church 5 days a week, 8 hours a day working, would you be eager to go back to your workplace to worship? A lot of people wouldn't. If I were a pastor (and I may very well be a pastor some day) I would take that into consideration.
You do bring up a problem. It is true that anytime I walk into a church gathering, no matter when it is or where it is, I am on the job. It can be very difficult.
Sometimes, I am invited to come for a special event, so I go. As soon as I walk into the door, a am surrounded by people needing this and that. When I first started working there, I would miss some of the service I was there to attend, because of trying to accommodate all their needs. At a church-party I attended at the pastor's house, I was literally inundated with people telling me about changed addresses & phone numbers, their needs from the office, etc. I have learned to tell people, "Call and leave your request on my voicemail," but I am still uncomfortable with going to something at which I am to worship with them or relax. 
Fortunately, they are great people, and I haven't a fuss with any of them. I can't imagine how it would be if I did!!! Nor can I imagine how it would be if I were there consistently to worship with them. I suppose if I did, I would have to become clear with them that when I came for church, I am there for church; leave me a message in my voicemail.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/11/2008 9:45:40 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1360
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
Should church staff and ministers be members of the church before hiring?
Ministers? I would think they at least should BECOME members of the church upon being "called" into their position. The minister to men at our church recently left the church to become the Sr. Pastor at another church....in another state. Same thing happened with the Adult II Bible Fellowship Minister (the person who ministers to the Sunday School Dept. for those in the 30-40ish age range, roughly)......he's flourishing as Sr. Pastor of a church in Arkansas. Churches will look far and wide for exceptional staff members and ministers.
With regards to "Staff" (who aren't ministers).....Iam sure that would be a nice gesture....to consider a church member first.....but, I am sure ability to excel and perform in that position is most important....
As I read through the openings we have in our church on-line right now.....there is no "requirement" to be a church member (that would certainly limit the number of prospective candidates)....
Here's what it says for EVERY position listed:
Be sure to attach a cover letter which includes all of the following information:
* position you are applying for
* salary requirements
* how your experience and qualifications match the current opening
* information concerning your testimony and current church involvement
Really....the only requirement for EACH and EVERY position on staff: A requirement for all employees at _________ is to have a growing relationship with Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.
I think the idea is that we are ALL a part of "the church".....whether or not a person on staff (the secretary for the children's music & worship ministry, for instance), is a member of our specific congregation is irrelevant....since we ALL are "on the same team" (for lack of a better way to put it).....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/11/2008 10:09:34 AM
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KatMack
Posts: 1031
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From: Along the Canopy Roads
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Reading through the responses here I'm seeing what an exception my church is to what seems to be the rule. I'm very blessed and I must remember to thank the Lord for that everyday!
--Kat
_____________________________
<-- My sweet blessings.
"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/11/2008 10:17:37 AM
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zoebob
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Our church does hire from within. I don't know who cleans the church but the secretary and Administrative Assistant are members.
As for the head pastor, in our denomination he is NOT a member of the church. He is a member of the presbytery but not the church. The AP and YP are though. The head pastor is under the direct authority of the presbytery. He is held accountable by the session but if he needs disciplining it is done by the presbytery.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/11/2008 1:38:47 PM
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rcjames
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I make it a point to hire from inside the Church if the folks are qualified and are looking for a job.
If need be I would hire from outside our Church, but under no circumstance would I hire a non-Chrijstian or a Christian who did not adhere to the doctrinal beliefs of our Church.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/11/2008 10:51:30 PM
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Cloak
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Logically if I were a pastor of a church, I would be much wiser to hire from inside the church making sure that it is someone who is a mature believing Christian.
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Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/12/2008 8:33:30 AM
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norajm
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I would say inside the church. They are more familiar with what is going on and can be more informative to people inquiring about the church.
The other day I called a church that I wanted to visit. All the lady could tell me was the service times. When I inquired about Bible Study and other things she actually said "I'm not sure. I don't worship here." My response was "Yes, but you work there. Shouldn't you know these answers?"
Employees of the church represent the church whether they are or are not members and should be knowledgeable either way.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/12/2008 9:23:13 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: norajm
I would say inside the church. They are more familiar with what is going on and can be more informative to people inquiring about the church.
The other day I called a church that I wanted to visit. All the lady could tell me was the service times. When I inquired about Bible Study and other things she actually said "I'm not sure. I don't worship here." My response was "Yes, but you work there. Shouldn't you know these answers?"
Employees of the church represent the church whether they are or are not members and should be knowledgeable either way.
This person was either new or was a temp. This is very poor representation of any employee of a church. Sad.
The church that hired me had no pastor at the time. As the secretary of a church I didn't attend, one of the first things I did, even though I thought I was just volunteering for a month, was sit down with their doctrinal book and go through it, so that I could answer those who called according to their doctrines. No, I still don't know everything about the church, it has been a long time since I have read the book, and there have been some changes, but I know 95% of the doctrinal positions.
Further, I attended some of the services, as well as the Bible studies, in order to familiarize myself with what goes on. Last weekend, I attended one of the weddings, and it was a Major Eye Opener!
When they got a pastor, and I became his administrative assistant, I had to learn much more about the function of the church as well as the pastor's preferences and ideas, his personal take on the Bible and doctrines, his manner of teaching, etc. Good night! That is just the ordinary job of an employee who is not a member!
It is part of the job of such an employee to purposely educate her/himself with the work environment. After all, part of the reason that person is there is to answer the phone! And sometimes, it is to advise the caller, to comfort the grieving, to pray with the caller, to guide the caller to the proper resources. And very often, these things must be done face-to-face in the office. If the employee can't do these things, they need to find a different position.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/12/2008 10:40:21 AM
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bluestone
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Firing a church member can be a terrible thing for everyone involved.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/12/2008 11:15:49 AM
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lightshineon
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I think some jobs would be ok, like assistiant and such. In my DD case, she is not old enough, or mature enough to know pastors are human and have faults like the reast of the world. I am glad she is not working at church anymore, she though pastor did not see her as a member but an employee, which is true. I am looking at the brightside of this, he was a jerk as a boss, in her case true. We have all had them, and in the military some have had drill instructors who make you scrub the floors with a toothbrish. You may not like them, but, they do teach you to be excellent in work. The other good thing is the Lord will deal with pastor on this issue. he is not all bad, but he was horrible in this case. My DD worked very hard, and the church looked excellent. I believe the pastor and DD both disobyed the word about the slave (LOL)complaining, doing it as for the Lord. And the pastor, who is oppressive, and will give account to the true master in heaven. I jsut think in a postion ( janitoral) and such where you are ruled over, and have to scrape pastors boogers from underneath the glass on his desk ( yuck) you lose that certian respect, and I am glad she only hs one job. I want her and pastor to be on good terms again, and her not to be hurt spiritually in anyway.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Should churches hire staff from inside or out of th... - 8/12/2008 3:36:23 PM
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bluestone
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that's just gross. boogers are for wooden desks only!
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