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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/30/2008 8:37:38 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
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ORIGINAL: John_O
And what would that do? So we convince a bunch of men to seek wives their own age. (which in many cases would mean giving up the hope of children etc). If they want so desperately to become fathers, then why not men become fathers during the age that women become mothers?
Well maybe the wife of his youth was ill for most of those years. Had a few good years where she desired to and bore a child, and then passed away when the child was young (of causes totally unrelated to the child) like mine did? Trust me, I would have rather have had a houseful of children with my first wife by now. That was our plan but God had other plans for her I guess. 
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ORIGINAL: John_O
Now we have men marrying women who serve as a constant reminder to them of everything they have given up instead of being looked at as a blessing.
Oh no you didn't.  Surely you are not saying that if an older man marries an older woman that she is reminding him of what he gave up, are you???!!!! !!
If his desire is for children and he is marrying a women who is out of her child bearing years just because we've convinced him to (as you alluded to in your previous post) then yes I am saying exactly that. Why would a woman want a man who is not looking for her?
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If so, then no, I suppose no old fart wants to be reminded that he is an old fart, but if he feels that by sitting beside a young woman or fertilizing a young crop, that makes him young, too......Well, he's still an old fart. He just looks older because of the contrast!
You do not understand a man's desire for children. It has nothing to do with being young. In my case at least the thought or concept of "being young" never even crossed my mind. Of course the thought or concept of "being old" doesn't cross it either. I don't think that way.
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You said it yourself.....It is what it is.
It is true. Men can father children well into their sixties or later (Tony Randall was I think 79 when He sired his last child). Women can not. It's sad but that's the way it is.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/30/2008 8:41:28 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: twinkly
Men look out the outer appearance first THEN decide if they want to get to know the woman. Women are much different than that. Not all women, but I would say most.
You are right. Men and women are very different. That's part of what makes us men and women.
Most men are very visually oriented. Most women are not. It is what it is.
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Someone my age, maybe a year or two younger, maybe slightly older. BUT, as John said, THOSE men want a twenty something. SO, I guess I need to be looking at the fifty year old guys!
42 to 47 or so probably. Still young enough to want childen yet old enough to be out of their twenty something phase.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/30/2008 9:45:16 PM
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SamsonUSA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
[ If they want so desperately to become fathers, then why not men become fathers during the age that women become mothers?
Sorry Duck but this argument is not only weak it is also unkind. It is a fact that most women marry at an earlier age then men do. While many of these women are already married and having children many men of the same age are trying to establish themselves in their careers so that they can afford to support a family and have children.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/30/2008 9:55:49 PM
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SamsonUSA
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[Look at the differences on the She Says thread. My thread is not about weight, but, on that thread the women are asked if they mind an overweight man. Most of the women are saying there are other things that are much more important to them than just the outer appearance (as long as the man is healthy and not just being glutenous and oozing fat all over). Hmmm... sure don't see very many men saying that on similar topics on the He Says threads now do you?
Sorry in the real world we live in this is simply not true. Since in general women are more sympathetic than men they may SAY they wouldn't mind an overweight man but the facts just don't support this. I council many brothers that approach me in church asking for exercise and nutrition advice because they desperately want a Godly wife and have not had any luck on the dating scene, including the " Christian singles groups" they belong to. Many are Godly men with great careers and personalities with a lot to offer in a relationship. I've had countless men in my office at the gym break down and sob while sharing their heartache on the dating scene due to being overweight. Some of these men aren't even obese but only 20-30 lbs overweight.
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Chubby babies rock!
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/31/2008 6:26:12 AM
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twinkly
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So John, I can forget about a man who is 35-40? Maybe I don't want a man who is pushing 50. I am only 37!
Samson, I am sure that does happen. I am not saying it is in every single case. However, I know a lot of couples, married or just dating, where the man is overweight, attractive and takes care of his appearance, but still overweight, and they have an nice looking woman on their arm who may or may not be overweight. Of course, even overweight men desire a woman who is not (another whole topic right there and another pet peeve of mine). Show me a nice looking man who may not be overweight who has an overweight (even if just slightly) woman on his arm? Even if she is attractive and dresses nicely? But, I am off topic because that has nothing to do with age. However, for me, and I am saying this as a woman, it would not be the overweight of 20 or 30 pounds that would make him undesirable. It might be the way the man dresses, his mannerisms, his personality. I would venture to say it is more than the weight that is preventing these men from dates.
(on a side not Samson, I am working towards my personal fitness and nutriton certification for a career change... )
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/31/2008 9:18:23 AM
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APZR
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Seems to me you need to look for dates somewhere different. Both sexes can be shallow and want only one thing in a relationship sex/money. But while good men seem to be in the minority, they are out there. While I'm married and have been for a long time, personally I wouldn't see myself wanting to date someone with more than 10 years difference up or down. The maturity level and stage of life can be so different. Many times when I have conversations with younger men and women 20 somethings, I find myself thinking... good lord, they are absolutely clueless. While a roll in the hay may be fun with a younger lover, to lack the same level of maturity is a big turnoff when it comes to long term relationship prospects. There are many sharks in the water, and all you can do is keep looking, guard your heart, watch for signals he's giving off, and watch what kinds of signals you give off. Many people "play Christian" for convenience. 
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/31/2008 12:21:52 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: twinkly
So John, I can forget about a man who is 35-40? Maybe I don't want a man who is pushing 50. I am only 37!
No. But your odds would be much better if you opened the age range a bit on the higher end.
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Show me a nice looking man who may not be overweight who has an overweight (even if just slightly) woman on his arm? Even if she is attractive and dresses nicely?
Hi I'm John. M was significantly overweight for most of our marriage. Mostly due to other health issues, partially due to my negligence in reigning her in early when she started to put it on. She was always elegant and beautiful, always dressed nice, but she was overweight (By as much as 100lbs compared to her marriage weight)
For most of that time I was within 20 lbs of our marriage weight and 10 lbs of my ideal weight (I was too skinny when we marrried).
She was also 5 years younger than I.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/31/2008 12:34:57 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
I guess then we simply say, "Tough luck lady. It is what it is and you can choose to either accept it and make the best of it or wallow in the misery of what you feel is unfair."
I would never say "Tough luck" but the rest of the statement is accurate. We can't roll back time.
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ORIGINAL: John_O Trust me, I would have rather have had a houseful of children with my first wife by now. That was our plan but God had other plans for her I guess.
I hear what you are saying & my heart goes out to you in your isolated situation and I am happy that you could find what you were looking for. Not everyone is so blessed.
I'm still looking for my second wife. God will provide.
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ORIGINAL: John_O If his desire is for children and he is marrying a women who is out of her child bearing years just because we've convinced him to (as you alluded to in your previous post) then yes I am saying exactly that. Why would a woman want a man who is not looking for her? I would then be pressed to question the true motive of the man's 2nd marriage. Is it for love of the woman or more for procreation? Is it she that he is marrying or her eggs? Why would a woman want a man who would not have her if she were barren?
It's not either or. It's both. Her apparent ability to have children is part of the qualifications. He loves her for who she is. He wouldn't find she was barren (in most cases) until after they were married. The problem arises during the engagment/courtship when he discusses having children and she agrees that it would be good. If she knows she is barren at that time she is bound to be honest with him and tell him. Otherwise she is setting herself up to destroy her marriage the moment he finds out he was tricked into marrying someone who is not who he though she was.
Do you really want to set them both up for a lifetime of disappointment and rejection by making him ignore what He wants out of life when He is looking for a wife?
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ORIGINAL: John_O You do not understand a man's desire for children. But I do.
Your posts do not give that impression. Having children has nothing to do with feeling or looking young as you implied.
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And it is equally understandable that a woman's desire for children is every bit as strong.
no one said it wasn't. It's just different.
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ORIGINAL: John_O It is true. Men can father children well into their sixties or later (Tony Randall was I think 79 when He sired his last child). Women can not. Yes, but a fact that is seldom mentioned in relation to the same thing is that older fathers can & do raise the risk of genetic disorders in offspring as well as older mothers. It is a medical fact that the sperm count drops as a man ages as well as a hormone depletion. Analyses of samples from healthy men have found changes as men age, including increased fragmentation of DNA, and some studies have noted increased rates of cancers in children of older fathers. Geneticists have been aware for decades that the risk of certain rare birth defects increases with the father's age. One of the most studied of these conditions is a form of dwarfism called achondroplasia, but the list also includes neurofibromatosis, the connective tissues disorder Marfan syndrome, skull and facial abnormalities like Apert syndrome, and many other diseases and abnormalities.
There are chances of all these diseases/conditions mo matter what the age of the parents. Abraham was 100 when he sired Isaac. God watched out for Abraham's child. He'll watch out for mine. My job is to keep myself as healthy as I can be. If we stopped having children due to some risk of damage to them the human race would have died out with Noah's kids. I know plenty of kids who have older parents and all of them are healthy.
The truth is that men routinely seek a woman who is younger than they are. This starts just out of college and continues through old age. It's just the way it is.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/31/2008 4:45:33 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
I do not know the actual statistics, but we are living in a day & age where more & more women are remaining single & establishing their own careers because more & more men are not living up to what God intended them to.
I agree. And it's a vicious cycle. Many women bought into the feminist lie that they can have it all, a career and a family. And now they find that they cannot have a family. Used to be a woman's first goal was to get married and have children.
So now the men are used to the woman not wanting to marry young. Which, when coupled with the availability of women that will have sex without getting married, and the incredible risks a man takes to get married (divorce and child support for kids that are not his) results in a huge negative incentive for marriage. Now the Christian guys get stuck in this too. The girls don't want to get married right off the bat so by the time they are ready to marry the guy has become used to being single or looks for someone younger he can have children with.
Many men don't really grow into men until their thirties (Christian and lost) when they used to have to be men by the time they hit 22 or so as they had a family to support.
All around an ugly situation.
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More & more wives are forced to work in order to help make ends meet. I think that it is entirely possible for a man to support a family today, but not by the standards that our secular society sets as acceptable. Trouble is, most people live way above their means & I know that women are equally to blame for this. [q/uote]
I agree entirely but we've veered way off topic.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 10/31/2008 4:48:04 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
Yes, Abraham was 100 when he sired Isaac, but remember Abraham was not married to any spring chicken either. Sara was also 90. That miracle has nothing to do with older men wanting younger women *********uh, wait a minute....YES IT DOES! Didn't Abraham impregnate Hagar because he couldn't wait on God?
I remember that story. Sarah GAVE her handmade Hagar to Abraham to have children that Sarah would claim as her own. It wasn't Abraham chasing a younger woman, it was his wife forcing a younger woman on him. (Gen 16:1-5)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/1/2008 8:00:25 AM
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twinkly
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I think a lot has all of a sudden come out of this thread. Some I agree with and some I emphatically do not. BUT, I do appreciate hearing a man's side of things on such topics as this because, as much as men do not understand women, we don't understand you either.
You make a lot of valid points and arguments misunderstood. The one thing that is the million dollar question is: how have you been allowed to post on this thread being a woman? lol I posted one post one time on the he says thread that a different woman started and it was deleted immediately AND I got a PM from the mods saying I was not to reply on the he says thread that another woman started! It is cracking me up that you have been allowed to post here. I don't mind if you do, heck, you are supporting my cause, but I am wondering how you haven't been caught by the crosswalk police yet? 
The bottom line is, it is probably never going to change. If an older man can manage to get a younger woman they are going to do it, period. There are some women like that as well, but I would say it is the minority. I have no interest whatsoever in someone in their twenties period. It looks just as stupid for an older woman to be with a much younger man as it does for an older man to be with a younger woman. And yes, it does look ridiculous.
My ex husband cheated with both younger and older women. BUT, the last affair he had, which he is still on again off again with her, is younger. And I will tell you what. The maturity level is ridiculous. I know because I have had to deal with her on many occasion doing very immature things with my children and concerning me. My exboyfriend, I think he always gets what he has coming to him. He is the one who would put me on the back burner every time some twenty something would give him the time of day. And every time he got burned with it too. He would fawn, he would drool, he would worship, he would drop all kinds of money on them. And, when they were done using him in that way, and someone their own age came along, he was DROPPED like a hot potato. It may be unchristian to say, but THAT does my heart good.
Any way, thank you for all the dialogue here.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/2/2008 5:05:30 PM
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mrtigger
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I saw your response on the other He says thread.. I haven't read all of this thread but I'll put in my own 2 cents.
quote:
ORIGINAL: twinkly
The bottom line is, it is probably never going to change. If an older man can manage to get a younger woman they are going to do it, period. There are some women like that as well, but I would say it is the minority. I have no interest whatsoever in someone in their twenties period. It looks just as stupid for an older woman to be with a much younger man as it does for an older man to be with a younger woman. And yes, it does look ridiculous.
No. Not always. Not all men.
I'm sorry for your husbands affairs & such. And I think you have a right to be mad about it. But this is too much man bashing. A signficant percentage of men are cheating jerks but not the majority. And there are plenty of jerk women out there causing problems also. If you calculate it out, I think you will realize that for each jerk guy having an affair, there is usually a jerk woman on the other end of it.
I hope you will find a man who treats you with the respect & faithfulness that you deserve.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/3/2008 9:32:19 AM
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twinkly
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Thanks Mr. Tigger.
I do not mean to man bash, it is definitely NOT all men.
There are a lot of wonderful men out there, and.... THEY ARE ALL ALREADY MARRIED! of course.
I'm not worried about it. My main question was that I just wondered why a LOT of men seem to chase the younger women. Whether they be Christian men or not they do it. I would expect more of a Christian man, but have been disappointed by the Christian ones I have dated as well.
Yes, there are a lot of jerk women too. Absolutely. Every woman who had an affair with my husband were evil in my opinion. Any woman who knowingly does this is wrong wrong wrong. He is still with one who I have to deal with. It stinks.
When I end up having a good man in my life that I can trust, who is a Christian, and who is my age or close to it, who does not feel I am too old for him because I am not in my twenties, I will be sure to let you all know :-)
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/3/2008 10:27:21 AM
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twinkly
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TA, I have not been on here in a while, so I thought maybe things had changed.
I responded briefly on the He Says thread to someone else. I will be sure not to do that again.
Twinkly
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/3/2008 12:50:24 PM
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twinkly
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quote:
anyways i guess i'm not 40-something so don't know about any midlife crisis and feeling like i need to have a twentysomething in my arms for validation and can just say i think finding someone close to my age would be ideal...
Well, Iwilfearnoevil,
that is a very mature attitude, and not found all too often in my experiences....
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/4/2008 10:30:51 AM
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mrtigger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: twinkly
I'm not worried about it. My main question was that I just wondered why a LOT of men seem to chase the younger women.
I myself haven't been tempted by women much younger than I am (I'm 50). So I can't answer that specifically, but I think it is probably not much different than attractions a guy has to any age woman. For some guys, there maybe is a little extra ego boost from a younger woman, or maybe the guy is trying to go back to his youthful past and a younger woman creates that fantasy for him.
I kind of doubt any much younger woman would actually have an authentic attraction to me. In my whole life I can remember only one that seemed that way. Me & wifey were flying back from Hawaii and a young woman of about 25ish was seated next to me. I was 37. We started talking and the longer we talked, the more I got strong vibes she was attracted. I was doubting what I was sensing but later my wife said she was sensing the same thing so it probably was something real. Anyway it was a bit flattering but making me uncomfortable so I switched seats with my wife to give me some space. She was not ever any kind of temptation for me though.
Women near my own age have sometimes been a problem though. If they come loaded with attention/approval/flirting/compliments/etc, they are kind of addicting. The ego strokes I get from them can make me stupid. It's like my brain turns to mush. A few guys seem to be fairly immune to it but it seems fairly common that women get to us guys that way. But I think I'm probably more vulnerable than most guys to it.
I never had an actual affair with another woman, its just that a few in the past have gotten into my head & feelings in ways that only my wife should be. Sounds stupid but those times seemed almost as painful as an actual affair would have been.
It's probably not much different for the guys with younger women issues. It's mostly about ego & approval. It is just that it is extra potent for some guys when they get it from younger women.
I'm not saying any of this to justify any failures of myself or other guys. I'm just trying to offer my analysis of what is going on in me and maybe others during those problems.
I don't think I can eliminate my vulnerability so I've learned over the years, sometimes as a result of pain, some ways to work around it. I generally try to keep women at a distance emotionally & socially. I have some women casual type of friends but I keep it very surface level with them even though they are probably safe to be with as friends. If a woman seems flirty she is especially someone to be avoided. Some Christians frown on that kind of approach viewing the vulnerability as the actual issue that needs to be fixed. And it probably is the actual root problem and if it could be fixed I would do so. But the "man up", "pray", "leave it with Jesus", etc. fixes they offer as alternatives haven't worked for me. So I use the problem avoidance approach instead.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/4/2008 4:45:02 PM
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twinkly
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Very well thought out post Mr. Tigger.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/5/2008 4:14:04 AM
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Chico30Colt
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Ok im gonna attempt to explain my situation cause im 26 and right now im interested in someone who is about to turn 18 in a few weeks. I understand that the op was mad that a guy left her for a younger girl and that is really wrong and im sorry he did that. But in my situation the person im interested yeah she is young but im not attracted to her because she is young. In fact i wish she was alot older because it would make things alot more simpler. And i know some people have posted that younger girls dress in a way to get guys attention. Well that is a reason why im interested in her because she doesnt do that she dresses very conservative and that tells me alot about her character. I know of girls closer to my age who are imature and want to party and get guys attention im not looking for that I want someone who is humble and wants to serve God and i see these things in this younger girl. Believe me i wish she was older cause then i wouldnt have to worry about what other people would think if i talked to her. I mean im interested in her but i dont even talk to her because i dont want any one to think im chasing after a younger girl.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/5/2008 6:55:22 AM
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twinkly
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When my sister was about to turn 18 (she will be 20 this week) I would have kicked her butt if she even thought about dating a 26 year old man! Of course, my father would have beat me to it. Even at 20 I would question it.
She is about to be 18? Is she still in high school then?
My original post aside, yes, I would have a problem with this. You are a 26 year old man and she is a 17 year old GIRL. CHILD, GIRL.
If the women your age want to party,etc, and you don't, then maybe look at someone a little older, NOT a teenager for crying out loud.
This is no explaining this situation to me, sorry.
If it were my daughter, I'd lock her up before I'd let her date a 26 year old man.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/5/2008 2:40:48 PM
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Chico30Colt
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I never said i was dating her i dont even talk to her at all my point is that i can sit here and have a set limit and be like ok im not going to like any one that is 4 years younger then me or what not but what if the person God has for u is younger what if she is 9 years younger what if she is 10 are u going to just sit there and be like no she is to young im not going to even think about it. Granted if she is really young like 18 you shouldnt act or do anything cause she is to young. My point i was trying to make is I was looking for qualities that i want my wife to have things about her character now im not saying this girl is the one but she does have alot of things that older girls i know dont have she is more mature then alot of the girls i know. In the end does it really matter what the age difference is i mean honestly if u found an amazing guy who had everything u wanted and you felt God wanted u to be with that person but he is 10 years older then would u say no he is to old.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/5/2008 2:49:00 PM
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twinkly
Posts: 406
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My original post asked "why do men chase younger women"
My original post was under the direction that, at 37, I feel I am too old for the men my age because they all want a young 20 something.
It does not have anything to do with age differences in general, more to do with why do men not want the women who are their age and instead chase after their lost youth of yesteryear by trying to date someone old enough to be their daughter?
If God intends for me to be with a man who is ten years older He will reveal that to me and that man will not be a skirt chaser and not be with me just because I am younger than he is.
You may see qualities in a 17 year old you think you would like in a wife, but she is still a child. How are you even around a girl that age anyway?
At 17 she is not even matured yet or fully developed mentally and emotionally. The way she is now is not likely the person she will be 10 years from now just from lack of life experience alone.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/5/2008 3:10:05 PM
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Chico30Colt
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She goes to the same church as I do and i also work around the same school she goes to. And your right she is to young and thats why i havent said anything to her or asked her out or anything like that. And i know she isnt fully mature yet but do u have to be fully mature to have character? I think sometimes people put to much emphasis on age. For instance in my college group at my church which im part of there is a girl who is in college she is one of my friends and I can date her if i wanted and no one would think much about it because she is in college. But the truth is she is only a month older then this other girl in HS. Now i know the difference is the other girl is in HS and there is a difference there but girls mature alot faster then guys in most cases hence the reason why alot of guys date someone younger because by the time guys figure it out the girls their age have moved on and found other guys who are older.
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RE: Why do men do this? - 11/5/2008 4:31:59 PM
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twinkly
Posts: 406
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wouldn't matter to me that she is in college, she is still just a girl fresh out of high school.
sounds like you are trying to either justify your feelings for a high school girl or trying to convince yourself it is ok to feel that way.
good that you are not asking her out. I'd move on from even being around her. Check back in five years and see if she is the same person. If so, ask her out then. But you are asking for trouble to be so fixated on her right now. Do her parents realize you feel this way? I am getting creepy vibes that work near her school. I am sure her parents would be having a little conversation with you....
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Our bodies are the temple of the Lord, let us starting treating them as such!
Come and join the 2009 BODY REVIVAL thread!
http://forums.crosswalk.com/fb.aspx?m=4073599
The Body Revival recipe thread is in the "Home and Garden" forum
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