Confused by therapist (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Life] >> Relationships



Message

Chrystal-J-007 -> Confused by therapist (8/7/2008 6:43:52 PM)

I'm confused by my counselor. Before my husband's passing, I had been working with my therapist regarding my shyness. I thought I was making really good progress. I met with him about twice a month for an hour. My insurance was paying for that, so cost wasn't an issue. After my husband passed away last fall, I told my counselor that I needed a break to deal with that and the move I was making to a smaller (cheaper) house.
Then around Christmas my counselor got sick for quite a while (required surgery), so that pushed our meeting further back. Finally, about a month ago, I decided to start therapy again. I e-mailed him and asked him to make me an appointment. No response. I called his secretary and she said she'd pass along the message cuz he makes his own appointments. Again, no response. I thought he wasn't getting his messages so I called his house. Normally, the phone call would be put through to his office answering machine. Instead, I got his personal answering machine--which I thought was odd, but I left a message.
Anyway, he called me back at 10:30pm and we talked for almost an hour. It was good--kinda like one of our sessions. At the end of the call, I asked for an appointment. He said from now on, he wanted us to have a "phone relationship" and that I could call any time I needed to talk.
We've been patient/therapist for years and this is the first time he's done this to me. Frankly, I feel kinda rejected and weird about it at the same time.
I asked him if he'd gotten paid by my insurance. He said "yes". I asked if he was too busy with patients or if his health was an issue in seeing me and he said "no" to both. But, he didn't elaborate.
What's going on here? Is he sicker than he let on and wants to reduce his caseload? I wonder if I did something to annoy him, but at our last appointment, things went really well and I felt good about my progress.
I'm confused. I really need his help right now and I don't know what to do. I asked my friend and she said to post my question here. So, here I am.
I'm shy so finding a new therapist is going to be very hard. And I thought we were doing so well because I was making progress.
I'm lost...[:(]



agapetos -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/7/2008 6:59:14 PM)

I think I'd be confused too!

I have to confess, whatever his reasons for wanting to go to a 'phone relationship', it's set of red warning flags to me. Either he's well enough to treat you as a patient as he has in the past, or he isn't. And while it would be wrong for him to involve you in specific personal information about himself, he's not being clear on a professional level.

I know that finding a new therapist can be a nightmare ~ but it can also be incredibly beneficial to us too. Over the past couple of years, I've seen 2 therapists at different times. I'll probably be seeing another later this year (the first 2 both left the hospital they were working at). It can be very hard to get used to another one ~ but at the same time, a new therapist every so often will save us becoming overdependant on one individual ~ something that isn't good!

I would strongly suggest you find another therapist.



jaimestarcross -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/7/2008 8:52:48 PM)

Personally, I would find someone else.



manda59 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/7/2008 9:08:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chrystal-J-007
I'm shy so finding a new therapist is going to be very hard.



So actually finding a new therapist could be therapy in itself!

Far better to break out and try a new one, than to sit around worrying about the old one.



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 2:23:39 AM)

Thanks for the replies.

I just wish I knew what went wrong. [sm=unsure.gif]

I'm going to try to find someone else. But, I hate the thought of having to 'start over'. Especially, since I felt like I was making so much progress.



Rivermoon -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 9:24:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chrystal-J-007

Thanks for the replies.

I just wish I knew what went wrong. [sm=unsure.gif]

I'm going to try to find someone else. But, I hate the thought of having to 'start over'. Especially, since I felt like I was making so much progress.


I know what you mean. But put it in a different perspective, maybe this change is an opportunity for you to put your progress into a real test, as you know that you've improved a lot. If you truly are, you want to see your improvement in action, right? instead of just being told by the therapist in the office, right? If God wants this to happen, it must happen for a very good reason.

I'm kinda understand your feeling, as I have other issues to work on with my therapist too. I have attachment and rejection issues, but my therapist keeps telling me that I have improved a lot, and she keeps telling me not to isolate myself from others, and be initiative to maintain friendship. I told her but ... but ... I am so afraid to be rejected when I initiate, then she said that this is what I need to keep doing, work against what I fear, put faith in God, otherwise, I'll just end up sitting there complaining about the situation for long. It's kinda muscle that needs us to exercise.

On the other hand, I believe there're some professional issues with your current therapist. Professionally, he can't initiate the termination of therapy relationship. But if he really can't take or handle the cases he has in his hands, he has to be professionally be honest with the clients about the situation, and transfer the clients to other therapist that can take over the case. While transferring the face-to-face relationship to phone relationship without getting your consent is another breach of professionalism. Here's what I see.

Good luck, be proactive, God is always there to walk with you, so not to be held up and stopped by your fear. God has equipped you with everything you need to step out. It's the same lesson I'm pushing myself out to do everyday right now. :-)



revbob4God -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 10:08:09 AM)

quote:

Anyway, he called me back at 10:30pm and we talked for almost an hour. It was good--kinda like one of our sessions. At the end of the call, I asked for an appointment. He said from now on, he wanted us to have a "phone relationship" and that I could call any time I needed to talk.
We've been patient/therapist for years and this is the first time he's done this to me. Frankly, I feel kinda rejected and weird about it at the same time.
I asked him if he'd gotten paid by my insurance. He said "yes". I asked if he was too busy with patients or if his health was an issue in seeing me and he said "no" to both. But, he didn't elaborate.
What's going on here? Is he sicker than he let on and wants to reduce his caseload? I wonder if I did something to annoy him, but at our last appointment, things went really well and I felt good about my progress.
I'm confused. I really need his help right now and I don't know what to do. I asked my friend and she said to post my question here. So, here I am.
I'm shy so finding a new therapist is going to be very hard. And I thought we were doing so well because I was making progress.

Coming from my daughter, a licensed counselor, here is your answer. The therapist needs to immediately refer you to another therapist who will be able to see you in person and continue your work. You need to ask for a referral to another counselor. I the therapist refuses, then you need to consult the medical directory in your area and seek another therapist who better suits your needs at this time.
Your therapist is ethically bound to refer you to another counselor, and this probably should have been done when the therapist required leave from his patients for the medical issues.



IonMoon -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 10:10:59 AM)

Yeah... his behavior would actually be considered unethical in terms of a mental health/therapist relationship.

What his motives are, I can't even guess, but I would back off and find someone else.

If he doesn't want to treat you any more, then he should clearly state that. BUT if that is the case, he should not be allowing any other contact. Opening it up to call me when you want to talk (but he obviously would not consider you a client) is breaking boundary limits.

Tara P



slushie -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 10:43:04 AM)

Find a new therapist. As for knowing what went wrong... I have no idea. But find a new therapist.



revbob4God -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 11:23:12 AM)

Oh and by the way, therapists have rules and ethics that prohibit romantic or personal relationships with active clients, and also, there is a period of time, two or three years after a doctor patient relationship actually ends before they are supposed to even consider relationships and/or other monkey business, and although I could be wrong, it sounds like the therapist may be considering monkey business.



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 11:32:52 AM)

Rivermoon,
Thanks for sharing. My shyness is really bad. I've been known to hang on to bad relationships just because it's too hard for me to form new ones. And now that I'm single again, I dread dating. But, I feel like I'm too young to stay single for the rest of my life (I'm 42), so I'm going to have to a least try.
revbob4God & Rainbowtvp,
I wondered what the deal was too. (As far as it be ethical.) For one thing, how am I suppose to pay him for these phone calls? My insurance isn't going to pay for me to chat on the phone for an hour. The weird part is he seems so normal on the phone. Just like one of our sessions. Why not just see me in the office? It's not like we argue or I demand a lot of his time. (This is only the second time I've called his home number in 10 years.) I deliberately try not to be "clingy" with him cuz I don't think that healthy. Although, he did say "call anytime". That made me think he didn't want to end the relationship.
I feel like I lost another relationship. Ten years down the drain. [sm=popsigh.gif]

Thanks for your replies all!
C J



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 11:36:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: revbob4God

Oh and by the way, therapists have rules and ethics that prohibit romantic or personal relationships with active clients, and also, there is a period of time, two or three years after a doctor patient relationship actually ends before they are supposed to even consider relationships and/or other monkey business, and although I could be wrong, it sounds like the therapist may be considering monkey business.

One of my friends said that too. They said that since my husband's passed, maybe my theraptist was thinking he could go out with me now.
I don't think so cuz he's never said he wanted to date me before. But, with the roller-coaster that is my life--I never say never anymore.
[:(] ...he's such a good theraptist, I sure hope that's not the case.



floydette -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 11:44:21 AM)

There is alot of talk that looks like this counselor is being thrown under the bus because of assumptions based on unknown factors. We would just as easily look at the possible positive outlook of the situation. He could be physically not up to seeing people after his surgery, yet would like to use the phone. I know many therapists who do phone counseling for varying reasons. Second, he could be helping you CJ not fall into a pattern where people who lose their spouse fall for the next person who shows them kindness. He could be setting a physical boundary to protect you. There are many things that could be happening, but we just do not have all of the facts.

As far as the questions you have - ask - Do I pay you, if so is my insurance going to cover the changes? How do I make a phone appointment. If there is a fear that you will appear clingy, then clarifying these things will establish good healthy boundaries for you. IMO, there is no need to rush down the road of assuming this guy is behaving unethically (unless his State law says he can not do this).



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 12:00:27 PM)

I agree, floydette, in not throwing him under the bus. He's very good at what he does. His advise is sound and useful. I just wish he'd explain to me what's going on. He could just say "I'm too sick to go to the office, so I'd perfer to do this." Something to explain what's going on. I feel like I got cut off cold. Although, he did say I could call. So, that makes me feel like he still wants me as a patient. Calling and leaving a message is a hassle though, cuz you have to wait for him to call you back.
Why did he have to do this now? I feel so vunerable cuz of my husband's passing, the loss of my house, and my own issues of shyness.
Thanks for posting.
C J



agapetos -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 12:12:09 PM)

quote:

And now that I'm single again, I dread dating. But, I feel like I'm too young to stay single for the rest of my life (I'm 42), so I'm going to have to a least try.
May I suggest that you don't worry about the dating just yet. You're a very recent widow and sound as though you have things to sort out. Don't try and take everything on at once.

quote:

I feel like I lost another relationship. Ten years down the drain.
Yes, it is the end of another relationship, but don't see it as 10 years down the drain. You said that you had made good progress with him up until you had to take a break.

I mean no disrespect, but 10 years is a long time to be seeing a therapist and I can't help but feel that what has happened is a good thing because it means that you can look at what you want and need from therapy.

There was a time when I'd have died laughing if someone told me that my feelings about so many painful issues in my life could change in 20 sessions ~ but they did and they changed dramatically. Therapy shouldn't and doesn't have to be a 'for life' thing (which IMO is dangerous as we're learning to depend on 1 person rather than ourselves). It's about learning coping strategies and how to put our experiences into the past without allowing them to take over our lives. It doesn't mean that we forget them, or that they never happened.

quote:

I don't think so cuz he's never said he wanted to date me before.
But you were married before.

quote:

There is alot of talk that looks like this counselor is being thrown under the bus because of assumptions based on unknown factors. We would just as easily look at the possible positive outlook of the situation.
Couldn't agree more ~ there are a lot of assumptions being made.

quote:

There are many things that could be happening, but we just do not have all of the facts.
There could be, and the therapist should have been clear with Chrystal about what was going on. He wasn't. I'm not suggesting that he is trying to do anything unethical, but he's been unprofessional in setting new boundaries without explaining them.



floydette -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 12:13:54 PM)

CJ,
I understand your response. Who knows, it could be he thought it would be helpful to handle it in this manner. I don't know. But this would be a great question to ask him the next time you talk to him. It would help you both to understand where each other is coming from. Sometimes people need to grieve privately, sometimes people prefer to grieve with others.

My dd had an experience of a grieving friend. My dd's personality would want to be alone during the grief to be able to process it on her own. So, she left her friend alone, thinking that is what her friend would want as well. Little did she know that her friend wanted someone to literally sit with her and hold her hand while she grieved. So, her friend saw this as a completely uncaring act, when in reality there was alot of care put into the decision. My point it, that sometimes we act certain ways because we feel that the "action" would be helpful. Sometimes we are really wrong. And, the only way to resolve it is to discuss what occurred, and to share our side.



agapetos -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 12:18:42 PM)

For a number of years I saw someone in respect of my mental health. He left at very short notice and from my point of view, there were a lot of issues about his departure.

It took me a while, but I finally wrote to him about the 2 major issues. He responded and explained his side, including an apology for what he'd done wrong.

It helped me a lot. It may be worth you writing to him to ask for clarification ~ although I still maintain that a change of therapist may help you more.

You asked 'Why did he have to do this now?'. It wasn't really his choice to become sick and need to take time off. It is simply life. I'm sorry, there really is no answer to your question though.



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 12:31:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agapetos

quote:

May I suggest that you don't worry about the dating just yet. You're a very recent widow and sound as though you have things to sort out. Don't try and take everything on at once.

I know, but I'm thinking down the road. I was hoping my counsler would help me with that.

quote:


I mean no disrespect, but 10 years is a long time to be seeing a therapist

You have to understand that I don't have any family that I can talk to and very few friends. That's why I hang on to someone who can be a support to me--cuz they're so rare in my life.

Plus, I have a lot of issues. And I am making progress regarding them one by one. It's going to be a long process for me and I accept that.



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/8/2008 12:33:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

CJ,
I understand your response. Who knows, it could be he thought it would be helpful to handle it in this manner. I don't know. But this would be a great question to ask him the next time you talk to him. It would help you both to understand where each other is coming from. Sometimes people need to grieve privately, sometimes people prefer to grieve with others.

My dd had an experience of a grieving friend. My dd's personality would want to be alone during the grief to be able to process it on her own. So, she left her friend alone, thinking that is what her friend would want as well. Little did she know that her friend wanted someone to literally sit with her and hold her hand while she grieved. So, her friend saw this as a completely uncaring act, when in reality there was alot of care put into the decision. My point it, that sometimes we act certain ways because we feel that the "action" would be helpful. Sometimes we are really wrong. And, the only way to resolve it is to discuss what occurred, and to share our side.

I know what you mean. I feel like I'm not sure how he feels--I wish he would be blunt. It would be a lot easier for me. Maybe he's afraid of hurting my feelings if he's blunt, but being in the dark is no fun either.
Thanks for your reply.
C J



agapetos -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/9/2008 6:51:09 AM)

quote:

You have to understand that I don't have any family that I can talk to and very few friends. That's why I hang on to someone who can be a support to me--cuz they're so rare in my life.
Oh but I do understand. I don't have any family that I can talk to either and I lost quite a few people I considered friends when I was diagnosed with bipolar. The friends I have now are worth their weight in gold, but losing people hurts.

However, no matter how few people we have in our life, it is not a good reason to spend 10 years with the same therapist ~ it is not their job to give us someone to have in our life.

quote:

Plus, I have a lot of issues. And I am making progress regarding them one by one. It's going to be a long process for me and I accept that.
And I have had a lot of issues to deal with too.

I (reluctantly) started to see a psychologist in 2006. She was a lovely lady, very friendly. She offered me 9 sessions. During that time, it became clear to her that I would need more than 9 sessions and she told me this. She also told me that she was moving away from the area, but would finish the sessions she'd promised me. She did.

At around the same time she left, a nurse who'd given me a lot of support and was very involved in my health care left and I had several serious physical health problems. Not only was I thinking why did my therapist have to leave, but I was wondering why my nurse had to leave too.

Last year, I started to see another therapist who was also great, though she was far more reserved. She offered me 20 sessions and we worked on some of the issues that the first therapist had identified. Towards the end of the sessions, we discussed other aspects of my life that may require further work and identified one. While she told me that she would have liked to have continued working with me, she informed me that she was leaving too. At the same time, I had requested that someone be removed from being involved in my health care. While not someone I felt I'd received much support from, my decision affected me. Also, shortly after, my doctor who's given me a lot of support was off work (she had a bereavement and then leave).

Just after my second therapist left I saw my doctor and we discussed therapy. I said that I was sure that I could come up with enough issues to keep me in therapy for the next 100 years, but I didn't see that as being the point of therapy.

The point of therapy is to give us building blocks to deal with issues that are affecting our life. You have said that you are very shy. So am I. No amount of therapy is going to make either of us into people who aren't shy. What it can do though is enable us to know how to cope with situations in our life that we'll come across.

The problem with seeing someone for an extended period of time is that we stop progressing with them, even though we feel we are. Years back, I had therapy and at the time I said it was really good. It was only in retrospect that I realise it didn't do a great deal for me.

I wonder how frequently you saw your therapist (weekly, fortnightly, monthly etc) and how many reviews you had during that time? I had 20 sessions with my last therapist and we had a review half way through, and another at the end (to discuss further therapy and how I felt things had changed for me).

Again, I would urge you to find a new therapist.



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/9/2008 3:09:22 PM)

Thanks for your reply agapetos. I'm glad thing worked out for you.



buckifn -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/9/2008 3:24:57 PM)

There are some definite boundary issues here. A counselor having his messages forwarded to his home phone would be the first red flag. Calling you after normal business hours would be another. Why on earth would he need to call you at 10:30 p.m.??? I don't even call my friends at that hour, it's just rude and inconsiderate unless there is an emergency.

Talking on the phone for an hour after 10:30 p.m.? waaaaaaaaay over the boundaries of ethical prof. behavior. Why did you take an hour to ask for an appt.?

Something is terribly wrong with this situation...are you withholding information? If not, you need to contact your state ethics committee...this guy is in clear violation of ethical guidelines for client/therapist relationship.

After reporting him I would find another therapist asap.



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/9/2008 5:07:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

There are some definite boundary issues here. A counselor having his messages forwarded to his home phone would be the first red flag. Calling you after normal business hours would be another. Why on earth would he need to call you at 10:30 p.m.??? I don't even call my friends at that hour, it's just rude and inconsiderate unless there is an emergency.

Talking on the phone for an hour after 10:30 p.m.? waaaaaaaaay over the boundaries of ethical prof. behavior. Why did you take an hour to ask for an appt.?

Something is terribly wrong with this situation...are you withholding information? If not, you need to contact your state ethics committee...this guy is in clear violation of ethical guidelines for client/therapist relationship.

After reporting him I would find another therapist asap.

No, I'm not "holding out info", I would hardly post this here if I was.
He might of called at that hour cuz he knows I'm a night-owl and I'm usually up til 2 or 3 in the morning.
I didn't think it was the perfect way to handle it--but I also didn't think he was WAY out of line and I'm certianly not reporting him to anyone.
I only posted this here to see if others had a therapist who perhaps wanted to end therapy or if there was such a thing as "phone therapy". I didn't want to go on a tirade against my therapist.
Thanks for your reply.
C J



buckifn -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/9/2008 9:16:06 PM)

quote:

He might of called at that hour cuz he knows I'm a night-owl and I'm usually up til 2 or 3 in the morning.
I didn't think it was the perfect way to handle it--but I also didn't think he was WAY out of line and I'm certianly not reporting him to anyone.


Whether you think he was out of line here doesn't matter. He agreed to abide by certain ethical standards which include clear boundaries on client/therapist relationships and ethical standards for terminating such relationships.

Here is some info and a link with more information- click on the ACA Code of Ethics
http://www.counseling.org/Resources/CodeOfEthics/TP/Home/CT2.aspx

A.11. Termination and
Referral
A.11.a. Abandonment Prohibited
Counselors do not abandon or neglect
clients in counseling. Counselors
assist in making appropriate arrangements
for the continuation of
treatment, when necessary, during interruptions
such as vacations, illness,
and following termination.
A.11.b. Inability to Assist Clients
If counselors determine an inability
to be of professional assistance to
clients, they avoid entering or continuing
counseling relationships.
Counselors are knowledgeable about
culturally and clinically appropriate
referral resources and suggest these
alternatives. If clients decline the suggested
referrals, counselors should
discontinue the relationship.
A.11.c. Appropriate Termination8291



Chrystal-J-007 -> RE: Confused by therapist (8/10/2008 1:58:39 AM)

Thanks for the info.--it's interesting.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI