The mark of the beast (Full Version)

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Carico -> The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 1:43:55 PM)

Rev. 13 16 KJV, "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads..."

Now until the 21st century, man didn't possess the ability to put a mark inside of someone's right hand or forehead until the new GPS computer chips which are now being distributed among the military. We now have the technology to do that. And Satan will entice the world to use that form of ID to buy and sell to try to prevent identity theft.

The problem is, that since technology seems natural to mankind, man will easily be deceived into believing that there's no harm in having a computer chip placed in his skin. So most people will think nothing of this event and that's how the anti-Christ will deceive the world into following him. [;)]Only the elect will be given the power from God to resist the chip because we will receive great persecution and pressure to conform to the world. I see no other way for the majority of the world to willingly receive the mark of beast except in this manner.

Any thoughts?



WesP -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 3:52:37 PM)

quote:

Any thoughts?


Yep. There will have to be an obvious moral choice associated with the chip if it is to be the mark. For instance, one must acknowledge Mr. X as God or bow down to him or whatever when receiving the chip. Make sense?



cow451 -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 3:55:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

Rev. 13 16 KJV, "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads..."

Now until the 21st century, man didn't possess the ability to put a mark inside of someone's right hand or forehead until the new GPS computer chips which are now being distributed among the military. We now have the technology to do that. And Satan will entice the world to use that form of ID to buy and sell to try to prevent identity theft.

The problem is, that since technology seems natural to mankind, man will easily be deceived into believing that there's no harm in having a computer chip placed in his skin. So most people will think nothing of this event and that's how the anti-Christ will deceive the world into following him. [;)]Only the elect will be given the power from God to resist the chip because we will receive great persecution and pressure to conform to the world. I see no other way for the majority of the world to willingly receive the mark of beast except in this manner.

Any thoughts?

We haven't even really begun to see what will be placed inside the body. We already have artificial joints, valves, pacemakers and stimulators. With nanotechnology, the prospects are endless. A chip under the skin is nothing.



JimboFletch -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 4:04:00 PM)

The mark is figurative since most of Revelation is symbolic. I have listened to numerous eschatologists (like LaHaye and Lindsay) in the last 41 years and I know from them it is one of three things for sure.

It is either the possession of a credit or debit card, use of an iPod, or having a cell phone. If you have one of those, you definitely have the mark.



WesP -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 4:09:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

The mark is figurative since most of Revelation is symbolic. I have listened to numerous eschatologists (like LaHaye and Lindsay) in the last 41 years and I know from them it is one of three things for sure.

It is either the possession of a credit or debit card, use of an iPod, or having a cell phone. If you have one of those, you definitely have the mark.


I better skip that iPod purchase. It is the only mark I haven't taken yet! [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]



Peter_Gunn -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 4:16:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

The mark is figurative since most of Revelation is symbolic. I have listened to numerous eschatologists (like LaHaye and Lindsay) in the last 41 years and I know from them it is one of three things for sure.

It is either the possession of a credit or debit card, use of an iPod, or having a cell phone. If you have one of those, you definitely have the mark.


Oops.



Carico -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 7:41:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

Any thoughts?


Yep. There will have to be an obvious moral choice associated with the chip if it is to be the mark. For instance, one must acknowledge Mr. X as God or bow down to him or whatever when receiving the chip. Make sense?

I agree. [sm=icon_smile.gif]



Carico -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/7/2008 7:42:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

The mark is figurative since most of Revelation is symbolic. I have listened to numerous eschatologists (like LaHaye and Lindsay) in the last 41 years and I know from them it is one of three things for sure.

It is either the possession of a credit or debit card, use of an iPod, or having a cell phone. If you have one of those, you definitely have the mark.


Oops.

Are you sure it's figurative? If you're wrong, you'll pay a heavy price if you're alive when you are forced to have a GPS insert.[;)]

And credit cards aren't a permanent mark inside of us or on our skin. They are just leading up to the manner in which the mark will be universally accepted. [;)]



annieflowergirl -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/8/2008 4:01:51 AM)

I live in Crawfordsville In. And our local college, Wabash College. Has a grant to study the effects this "micro chip" will have while being in the body. Its scary stuff to think about. And like our Pastor says "its happening right here in "Mayberry, IN" our small little town.



Stephanos -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/8/2008 5:44:23 AM)

Why is it so hard for people to understand or comprehend that the "Marks" (notice marks as if you truly know your scripture you would know that believers get one too) will be supernatural manifestations of the inward heart. I personally believe that tattoo like marks will "appear" on people as they make their final choices during the tribulation. The true mark is NOT a implant or something put in by the government. If that were true then that would mean that the government could FORCE you to hell by FORCING their mark on you. LaHaye tried to get around this in one of his books (this is what made me leave the series) by saying someone had "both marks showing". That is just silly nonsense.

And as cow said, if these chips are bad, what about other implants such as internal hearing aids, pacemakers, ect. What happens when we start getting functional artificial eyes (not just glass ones)? Will THAT be evil too?



JimboFletch -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/8/2008 8:23:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico
And credit cards aren't a permanent mark inside of us or on our skin. They are just leading up to the manner in which the mark will be universally accepted. [;)]

Take comfort in thinking there will be a literal mark on your body and not what it really is, partaking of the world's system of commerce, entertainment, and values.
[;)]



earthless -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/8/2008 9:57:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephanos

Why is it so hard for people to understand or comprehend that the "Marks" (notice marks as if you truly know your scripture you would know that believers get one too) will be supernatural manifestations of the inward heart. I personally believe that tattoo like marks will "appear" on people as they make their final choices during the tribulation. The true mark is NOT a implant or something put in by the government. If that were true then that would mean that the government could FORCE you to hell by FORCING their mark on you. LaHaye tried to get around this in one of his books (this is what made me leave the series) by saying someone had "both marks showing". That is just silly nonsense.

And as cow said, if these chips are bad, what about other implants such as internal hearing aids, pacemakers, ect. What happens when we start getting functional artificial eyes (not just glass ones)? Will THAT be evil too?


Bingo.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/9/2008 4:22:32 AM)

Stephanos does have a very good point that the mark is going to be a physical manifestations of the condition of the heart, and it is going to be a final decision to take it. However, I would like to take issue with one argument...
quote:

The true mark is NOT a implant or something put in by the government. If that were true then that would mean that the government could FORCE you to hell by FORCING their mark on you.
Not necessarily. What happens know when you break the law? You go to jail. Imagine if the government was extraordinarily harsh... you could be exectuted. Lets remember, the Antichrist is going to have zero respect for the Geneva convention, or any kind of merciful civility. So it seriously could be as simple as "take the mark or die." Myself, I would gladly choose a beheading over eternal damnation.

So while you may, in fact, be right that it is nothing more than a physical mark because of an inward transaction... the above argument isn't that sound. Personally, I think that those who take the mark are going to want it because they have already rejected God. LaHaye's idea of someone getting the mark without their consent (while interesting) is just not plausible... it's about as plausible as someone "accidentally" getting saved "without their consent".

Adam



Stephanos -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/9/2008 9:42:54 PM)

Adam, I fully agree that the AC will try to (and probably sucseed) in making Christianity illegal, punishable by jail or death.

My point was, in regards to these implants that some view a the mark of the beast, is that IF it was the mark of the beast, then the government could send us to hell (not just jail) by forcing those implants into us. Again, I point you to LaHaye's book "The Mark", where one of the characters who was a Believer, also was forced to have the implant, and he was said to have "BOTH" marks. Again, that whole idea is just silly.



lightshineon -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/9/2008 11:09:24 PM)

My husband has seen it done at wal-mart, and I ask employees about it, they confirmed it. A womn working at wal-mart was concerned about it.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/10/2008 3:38:43 AM)

To be fair, the character in LaHaye's book was drugged unconscious by his father and then given the mark... which is about as likely as making an unconscious person say the sinner's prayer. Why? Because the "cosmological struggle" (bad terminology... deal with it later) is over one thing, and one thing alone... the affections of mankind. If we believe that taking the mark makes you truly apostate (as in, beyond redemption), then nobody is going to be knocking anybody unconscious "for their own good", but will report them to the authorities like any good "global citizen" (puke).

So, if the mark is a physical marking, then it is true... it is quite possible to be forced to take it. However, the chances of it actually happening are so remote that it only sort of holds up as an argument. The government can't force people to join the military when they have been drafted... just look at Vietnam. It is a matter of conscience (or a desire to avoid punishment) that causes us to follow the law... if then, to us, following the law is worse than the intended punishment (in Vietnam, a loss of good standing with the law... in the End-Times, death), we will accept the consequences and break the law.

The mark may in fact be "just" a manifestation of an inner reality... but taking the mark is going to be an indication of where your heart is anyway. So it's possible that it is just a manifestation of the spiritual reality of the apostate... but personally, I'm thinking that it is going to involve a specific exercise of the will to take it. Hence, John says that the false prophet causes them to "take the mark of the beast".

Adam



Diolectic -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/12/2008 1:03:15 PM)

The New Testament is written in Greek, so when we examine the number 666, we cannot use Hebrew, or English alphabets and numbers. We have to look at the Greek.


[image]http://heavenawaits.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/666-gr-arabic.jpg[/image]
Additionally, crossed swords ( X ) are a symbol for Islam. So in 666 we may find both “Islam” and “in the name of Allah” or bismillah.

Check this link out & all of it's links.

What ya think about this?



wreid77 -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/12/2008 2:57:46 PM)

I apologize, I don't have the patience to read every response in the thread so I may have missed someone else saying the same thing above.

The very first reply, I think, is the best answer. It won't be just a microchip under the skin. There will be a very obvious choice. It will be along the lines of defining you as a member of this Nation/Religion following a single person. The force behind this will be your ability to feed/clothe/house yourself. So anyone without a definite reason for rejecting it will accept it for the ability to buy and sell even if the didn't follow this one person.

It will be a choice that a committed follower of Christianity cannot take because it will force you to accept another as your god.

I also think that it will be something that you can't set down, from the time you take it, it will be with you for the rest of your life. Finally, it will be obvious and external. Everyone you come into contact with will be able to see it, eventually making it unsafe for anyone who does not have it.

Don't be fooled into thinking this will be something that will seem innocuous. It will be a definite choice, and a clear choice to any Christian unfortunate to be alive at that time. I pray to GOD that we will be taken away before that time comes.



Carico -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/14/2008 10:11:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephanos

Why is it so hard for people to understand or comprehend that the "Marks" (notice marks as if you truly know your scripture you would know that believers get one too) will be supernatural manifestations of the inward heart. I personally believe that tattoo like marks will "appear" on people as they make their final choices during the tribulation. The true mark is NOT a implant or something put in by the government. If that were true then that would mean that the government could FORCE you to hell by FORCING their mark on you. LaHaye tried to get around this in one of his books (this is what made me leave the series) by saying someone had "both marks showing". That is just silly nonsense.

And as cow said, if these chips are bad, what about other implants such as internal hearing aids, pacemakers, ect. What happens when we start getting functional artificial eyes (not just glass ones)? Will THAT be evil too?

Rev. 13 doesn't say that the mark of the beast will be in the ears, or heart. So hearing aids and heart implants are not applicable. It says the hand or forehead.

Also, Rev. 21 says that those who didn't receive the mark of the beast will be saved. That means that one has to stand firm when everyone else receives it.



whisperingwaters -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/14/2008 10:48:33 PM)

quote:

Also, Rev. 21 says that those who didn't receive the mark of the beast will be saved. That means that one has to stand firm when everyone else receives it.



What verse says this? As far as I know you have to make a commitment to the Lord and ask him into your life to be saved just because someone happens to not get the mark wont make them saved.



tracydolls -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/15/2008 3:01:46 AM)

The verichip is already here. Approved by the FDA in 2004.

From Wiki


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip

Prisoners in Illinois have been forced to take it already and alot of the Mexican Gov't has done so also.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Since things have already came true in Revelation, it CANNOT be just symbolic.



Diolectic -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/15/2008 12:51:25 PM)

Note: Here is wisdom: Let the one having reason figure the number of the beast, for it is the lot of a man and its lot is chi xi stigma
Or as it looks like the phrase in Arabic "In the name of Allah" or "Bismalah".
It is best you google a pic of the greek number to see what I'm saying
I can not get greek letters on the phorum.

It is not 6,6,6

But it is 600 & 60 & 6
or 666

Therefore, since it is not 6,6,6, there must be a reason for the 600 & 60 & 6 ?.
It might be for the reason of making it look like the words "In the Name of Allah" or "Bismalah" in Arabic .

Something to think about.



JimboFletch -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/15/2008 1:00:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

The verichip is already here. Approved by the FDA in 2004.

From Wiki


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip

Prisoners in Illinois have been forced to take it already and alot of the Mexican Gov't has done so also.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


Since things have already came true in Revelation, it CANNOT be just symbolic.

The last chapter of Revelation warns against anyone ADDING to what was wriiten - at the risk of incurring all the curses contained therein. It's one reason I am reluctant to assert I know things not revealed.



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (8/15/2008 1:35:41 PM)

[Deleted by Admins]



Stephanos -> RE: The mark of the beast (8/15/2008 1:39:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carico

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephanos

Why is it so hard for people to understand or comprehend that the "Marks" (notice marks as if you truly know your scripture you would know that believers get one too) will be supernatural manifestations of the inward heart. I personally believe that tattoo like marks will "appear" on people as they make their final choices during the tribulation. The true mark is NOT a implant or something put in by the government. If that were true then that would mean that the government could FORCE you to hell by FORCING their mark on you. LaHaye tried to get around this in one of his books (this is what made me leave the series) by saying someone had "both marks showing". That is just silly nonsense.

And as cow said, if these chips are bad, what about other implants such as internal hearing aids, pacemakers, ect. What happens when we start getting functional artificial eyes (not just glass ones)? Will THAT be evil too?

Rev. 13 doesn't say that the mark of the beast will be in the ears, or heart. So hearing aids and heart implants are not applicable. It says the hand or forehead.

Also, Rev. 21 says that those who didn't receive the mark of the beast will be saved. That means that one has to stand firm when everyone else receives it.


So if someone FORCES you to take the implant. I mean beats you up, ties you to a chair so you can not move, and force a chip in you. Then that means you can not be saved? This is exactly why the mark of the beast is NOT POSSIBLY a chip. The other reason is that the bible is quite clear that BELIEVERS will ALSO be getting a MARK!!! This mark will ALSO be VISIBLE to everyone. So why is one mark a spiritual truth, and one is a physical object? The answer is again, these chip implants are NOT the mark of the beast (or of God for that matter) PERIOD!



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