RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding???

RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (Full Version)

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SovereignIsHe -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 2:17:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellaluna I think he's kind of asking people to go on strike. Teachers do it to get more money so maybe students should try it, too? If a kids skips schools it's an issue and in some places it's against the law, so it's not like a person going on strike.. John

car2ner -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 3:05:47 PM)
I've worked in two schools in Georgia withing walking distance of each other. The differances were stark and most of it was from parental involvement and management styles of the schools. The less successful school did get extra funding because it was less successful so money was thrown at it to fund more programs. It wasn't the programs that made it better, it was the effort of teachers and hopefully the growing involvement of the parents. BUT, since I was employed by one of those programs, I brought an extra dimension to what the children were learning. The kids and teachers enjoyed the lessons and the kids learned alot but the program, by itself, could not turn anything around. Also, we had families try to find creative ways to get their children into the school district, it put alot of extra pressure on the school that it wasn't ready for as the school became more crowded. The great staff and parents made it work, though.

truthrevealed -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 5:49:03 PM)
Hmmm, perhaps the laws DO need to change then, because I don't see why people who collect welfare and live in poorer communities should not be entitled to a level-playing field as it concerns education, nor do I see what lack of parental involvement, (parents on drugs/ absent etc.) has to do with EQUAL PLAYING FIELD. And I am DEFINATELY AN INVOLVED PARENT AS IT CONCERNS MY CHILDREN'S EDUCATION(my husband and I BOTH...just ask my children what's required of them over the summer BEFORE they're allowed to play...ANYTHING[;)]. So many people crab and complain about their tax dollars being spent on government assisted programs, they whine about why people don't get off their butts and WORK yet want nothing to do with the fight for equal education opportunity so that those "lazy" folks have a chance to get a decent job and provide for their own families. (A sentiment that I've heard regarding this issue......)Why is it when people gather together, for a cause/to protest, is it automatcially EXPECTED BY SOME that it might create a "war" or a "battle" or a "riot?" Give me a break!

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:11:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Why is it when people gather together, for a cause/to protest, is it automatcially EXPECTED BY SOME that it might create a "war" or a "battle" or a "riot?" Give me a break! Could it be because Meeks (and poverty pimps) like him incite race into their rhetoric? His "sermon" this past Sunday morning had him hooting and hollering about white people having more and black people being left out, etc etc.. How is that unifying and how does that help his intended purpose of taking a bunch of kids to another school where they will be confrontations? He wants choice. He wants parents to have choices.. then why does he oppose the school voucher system for Chicago public schools? The program has been proven to be a success in the D.C. metro area, why not really stand for what he claims he wants and join a conservative cause? Why? Because it's a political game. Also, do those of you out of this story's area know that we're talking about two entirely different cities and school systems?

Zhi -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:20:51 PM)
quote: Hmmm, perhaps the laws DO need to change then, because I don't see why people who collect welfare and live in poorer communities should not be entitled to a level-playing field as it concerns education, nor do I see what lack of parental involvement, (parents on drugs/ absent etc.) has to do with EQUAL PLAYING FIELD. And I am DEFINATELY AN INVOLVED PARENT AS IT CONCERNS MY CHILDREN'S EDUCATION(my husband and I BOTH...just ask my children what's required of them over the summer BEFORE they're allowed to play...ANYTHING . So many people crab and complain about their tax dollars being spent on government assisted programs, they whine about why people don't get off their butts and WORK yet want nothing to do with the fight for equal education opportunity so that those "lazy" folks have a chance to get a decent job and provide for their own families. (A sentiment that I've heard regarding this issue......)Why is it when people gather together, for a cause/to protest, is it automatcially EXPECTED BY SOME that it might create a "war" or a "battle" or a "riot?" Give me a break! I don't think anyone's saying that children whose parents are not involved don't deserve an education, it's just that studies have shown quite clearly that when parents are not involved, the kids are less likely to get a good education, regardless of the amount of money thrown at them. They screw around and create issues and peer pressure towards blowing off school in the classes, which makes it harder for other kids to get a good education, just exacerbating the issue. It's difficult to level the playing field when the thing demonstrated most likely to create a good playing field requires people to get involved in their childrens' education, and people in poor communities tend to either not care because they don't value education and figure the kids can go on welfare too, or are far too busy trying to get food on the table and simply cannot get involved. I am not sure how you can get an apathetic parent to care. I am not sure how you can get an overworked and underpaid parent extra time in their day to be involved in their child's education. Then you have corrupt school districts on top of that. $10k is the AVERAGE across the country for per-student school funding, and this school can't afford textbooks and computers? Why can all the OTHER school districts afford those things on $10k per student? As for creating a riot... I do worry when kids are getting bussed en-masse to a school that they've been told is basically their enemy. It doesn't necessarily mean there will be a riot, but that's really awful for interpersonal relations in terms of extending hostilities and creating more of an "us vs them" mentality, and it's horrible to use kids as pawns like that, and it's horrible to disrupt the education of others for your own agenda. It's not the neighboring school district's fault that your school district is squandering funds and refusing to educate properly. It's not the neighboring school district's fault that they get more funds, even.

truthrevealed -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:24:55 PM)
Earthless, "poverty pimp"???? don't know.......DON'T WANNA KNOW[8\|]! Do you have personal knowledge about what's on his agenda regarding this "confrontation?" Even if you disagree with a person's methods or their...."hoop and........holla" things can still remain peaceful (without the "war", "battle" and "riot" act if things are peaceful WITHIN YOU!!!!!!

truthrevealed -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:33:38 PM)
Zhi, I completely agree about the importance of parental involvement. "people in poor communities tend not to care because they do not value education or...." Are you making this assertion based upon your own experience? As it concerns level playing fields........ **hypothetical*I have 2 children......one is more "motivated" than the other. I tell them that if they do xyz, I'll treat them to their favorite.....xyz. Do I not give the opportunity to both children even though I know full well, one is less likely to be motivated for the task than the other? Perhaps the OPPORTUNITY ALONE is enough to INSPIRE/MOTIVATE?!!!?? Zhi, these children have been told that the other school is an ENEMY? Do you have a link for that?

Zhi -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:42:10 PM)
Yes. I have worked extensively on a volunteer level with children in the inner city and children at an at-risk school. But, there are also studies that state that as well, based on information gathered. It's a very difficult issue. Though I might question some of their practices, I am happy to see that the people involved appear to be deeply concerned about their childrens' education... because that's the most likely thing to fix their school. Edit: missed one of your questions. quote: New Trier High School District Superintendent Linda Yonke released a statement Monday afternoon that "Senator Meeks' proposed September 2 protest ... appears to pit one district against another. I hope that all concerned educators and citizens can work together to consider the critical issue of school funding, and to find a solution which helps all districts � urban, suburban and rural � provide a high quality education to their students." http://cbs2chicago.com/local/meeks.school.protest.2.781568.html quote: �Today we are back to two-tiered schools - white and affluent on one side, and black, brown and poor on the other,� said Meeks, who also is a minister on the city�s South Side. �That�s an injustice and it�s immoral.� We're talking about people descending en masse on the first day of school of a different school district here. You have to see that as at least somewhat hostile, if only to the learning environment of that other school district. If it isn't about the other district, then go protest on the steps of the Illinois Legislature, they're the ones who can actually do something about funding. Not some other school district that's just trying to get school started.

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:44:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Earthless, "poverty pimp"???? don't know.......DON'T WANNA KNOW[8\|]! Yes, a poverty pimp ala Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. From WIKI: quote: label used to convey the opinion that an individual or group is benefiting unduly by acting as an intermediary on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged or other some other "victimized" groups. Those who use this appellation suggest that those so labeled profit unduly from the misfortune of others, and therefore do not really wish the societal problems that they appear to work on so assiduously be eliminated permanently, as it is not in their own interest for this to happen. The most frequent targets of this accusation are those receiving government funding or that solicit private charity to work on issues on behalf of various disadvantaged individuals or groups, but who never seem to be able to show any amelioration of the problems experienced by their target population. Some even suggest that that if profit was eliminated as a factor, greater steps in the alleviation of the oppressive situations could begin to truly occur. quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Do you have personal knowledge about what's on his agenda regarding this "confrontation?" Yes, and that 'yes' is a vast understatement. quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Even if you disagree with a person's methods or their...."hoop and........holla" things can still remain peaceful (without the "war", "battle" and "riot" act if things are peaceful WITHIN YOU!!!!!! He is taking a good number of students that are not even students, but teenage-aged gang bangers. Do you think that is going to abode well when they arrive at New Trier? Plus, he will be hurting the kids he claims to be representing. They cannot enroll at New Trier if they live outside of that particular school district.

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:46:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Zhi, these children have been told that the other school is an ENEMY? Do you have a link for that? I mentioned this to you before - but did you catch Meeks sermon from Sunday?

truthrevealed -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 6:55:32 PM)
Earthless, oh I didn't know he was taking gang-bangers to New Trier. You said you have personal knowledge....so you live in the community at question and are familiar with the "gang-bang" status of your neighbors or.......? And no, I am unaware of a sermon where Rev. Meeks stated that the residents of the New Trier community are ENEMIES to the residents in question.

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 7:14:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Earthless, oh I didn't know he was taking gang-bangers to New Trier. Happens at all these type of stunts. quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed You said you have personal knowledge....so you live in the community I will PM you this information for confidentiality reasons. quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed And no, I am unaware of a sermon where Rev. Meeks stated that the residents of the New Trier community are ENEMIES to the residents in question. It was this past Sunday's sermon, two days ago. WLS-890AM had it on the air yesterday during the Roe Conn show.

stampinlady -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/5/2008 9:20:14 PM)
quote: the Roe Conn show. I try and listen when I remember. He cracks me up. Anyway, I applaud Rev. Meeks for getting angry, but we are not to sin in our anger and he is encouraging people to sin but not following the rules. What kind of message is he sending these students? Imo, he's telling them to go ahead and take what's owed to you no matter what laws/rules you break.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 12:31:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stampinlady quote: the Roe Conn show. I try and listen when I remember. He cracks me up. Anyway, I applaud Rev. Meeks for getting angry, but we are not to sin in our anger and he is encouraging people to sin but not following the rules. What kind of message is he sending these students? Imo, he's telling them to go ahead and take what's owed to you no matter what laws/rules you break. What is "owed" them? John

car2ner -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 1:30:26 PM)
quote: Imo, he's telling them to go ahead and take what's owed to you no matter what laws/rules you break. What is "owed" them? good point, too many people think that the good stuff is "owed" to them.

stampinlady -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 1:40:09 PM)
quote: What is "owed" them? John Nothing as far as I'm concerned. BUT some think this way because of past treatment. I think all kids should be be able to have a balanced education, meaning kids in wealthy neighborhoods and kids in poor neighborhoods should have the same amount of money spent on them. What's funny to me is that some suburban schools are just as bad as some of these city school. So explain that?

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 1:48:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stampinlady should have the same amount of money spent on them. So if one couple in Naperville or Schaumburg pay $10K in property taxes a year.. their local school should have the same funding as the single parent on the west side who has Section 8 and does not pay property taxes?

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 1:51:28 PM)
The other fact that needs not to be over-looked in all of this is that we have smaller townships/suburbs that spend a lot less per student, per year than CPS. But those kids do excellent and excel. Why is that? Can we please ever, for once, have the blame and the responsbility rest with the actual community doing the protesting sparked by these so-called reverends? (NOT saying that in this case Rev. Meeks is not one, but that is the rarity in these situations).

P31W -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:00:07 PM)
quote: The Rev.(senator) Meeks and a few other black ministers are encouraging parents to pull their kids from some poorly funded school in Chicago and enroll them in better funded ones. That's what we did. We put our child in a private school. Of course we had to pay for it ourselves with after tax dollars. This was something we discussed and PLANNED for BEFORE we had a child.......FIVE years of planning, saving and doing without before we had a child. If you want something then work for it. If you want your children/child to have a good education then THINK before you have sex. Otherwise you only have yourself to blame. Use your own example to teach your children to be wiser so their children won't suffer because of their parents lack of prudence. Not all learning takes place in a classroom. The most important, having the greatest impact and longest lasting learning takes place in your home.

truthrevealed -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:03:46 PM)
Earthless, I received your PM. I'd be interested in hearing from you what blame and responsibility the people in "those communities" should take?

P31W -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:08:31 PM)
quote: The other fact that needs not to be over-looked in all of this is that we have smaller townships/suburbs that spend a lot less per student, per year than CPS. But those kids do excellent and excel. When my son was in school it was one of the best in the state and a college prep school. It cost us $6K per year. The public school system in our area at that times was spending twice that amount and the education was terrible. Education starts in the home.

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:12:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: P31W quote: The Rev.(senator) Meeks and a few other black ministers are encouraging parents to pull their kids from some poorly funded school in Chicago and enroll them in better funded ones. That's what we did. We put our child in a private school. Of course we had to pay or it ourselves with after tax dollars. Wouldn't it be great if you could have used a voucher of your own tax money to use as you thought best? Obama and Meeks are against what their own children were able to have as choices. quote: ORIGINAL: P31W If you want something then work for it. If you want your children/child to have a good education then THINK before you have sex. Otherwise you only have yourself to blame. Use your own example to teach your children to be wiser so their children won't suffer because of their parents lack of prudence. In so many of these cases... there are no parents. Or nothing but "single" moms and it's said as if it were a badge of honor.

truthrevealed -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:12:59 PM)
Also, earthless, I fully understand and expect that many would have the attitude that, people in a certain community who pay higher prop. taxes.....should expect greater school funding than the section 8 welfare recipient yada, yada, yada but I don't expect such sympathy for those of us who claim Christ. There will always be poor among us. Should not these people be allowed equal opportunity. Perhaps it might actually MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR STATUS.......as poor people???

P31W -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:13:19 PM)
quote: There is absolutely no reason for the state to spend $10,000 on students in one area and $17,000 in another. It's shameful. Do any of you know the breakdown here? What does it cost these differant school districts for garbage collection? (one area here cost twice what it does in another) Do you now if real estate cost more in one area to purchase than in another? In one section of our town next to a school real estate cost the school 20K per acre while in another it cost 100K per acre? When we say "per student cost" does that mean we take the total cost and divide that by the number of students attending that school? If so it could be the school that gets the "least" amount of money has more "bang for their buck"........like making $75K in Alabama gives you a better standard of living than it would in California.

earthless -> RE: Pull your kids from school because of funding??? (8/6/2008 2:14:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truthrevealed Also, earthless, I fully understand and expect that many would have the attitude that, people in a certain community who pay higher prop. taxes.....should expect greater school funding than the section 8 welfare recipient yada, yada, yada but I don't expect such sympathy for those of us who claim Christ. There will always be poor among us. Should not these people be allowed equal opportunity. Perhaps it might actually MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR STATUS.......as poor people??? From a post a few minutes ago: quote: The other fact that needs not to be over-looked in all of this is that we have smaller townships/suburbs that spend a lot less per student, per year than CPS. But those kids do excellent and excel. Why is that? Can we please ever, for once, have the blame and the responsbility rest with the actual community doing the protesting CPS funding is more than equal opportunity.

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