|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:26:47 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1566
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Do you think if Obama comes into office with his partial birth abortion and being born alive does not entitle a person to actually live that it will stir the church into action. Some think that if we are put under enough pressure we will but others felt that many Christians in this country were spoiled and apathetic so they would not really care. I don't know about that but I thought I would ask your thoughts on this
the Church of Jesus Christ, naw, they know who he is,
the Church of America, they'll probaly go shopping .
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:29:32 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
God's people are not like most sinners...
Depends on your theological views. I'm a bigger fan of Wesley than Calvin, so mine may be a little different from yours. IMHO, God's people are those who choose to accept Christ as their savior, and accept that there is no hope for them to get out of the mess they've made without divine intervention, and the only thing that separates us from the un-elect is faith. (Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 5:6-8)
Sorry for the theological tangent, Leon. Back to politics...
quote:
I am from California... Don't make me laugh... Though of course you once again ignored Obama's issues...
John
I really don't get it. Obama's problems are a horse that has been killed, beaten into a pulp, turned into glue, and are now being used plaster over all of his opponent's problems, which happen to be several oversized elephants. I think there are about 200 threads about Obama on this forum, and you're free to continue focusing on his politics in any of those threads.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:40:31 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
A victory for Barack Obama represents a defeat for legalism, not Christianity.
But Barry spent a good deal of time in a church emeshed in Black Liberation theology which is based entirely on legalism. One is saved by freeing individuals from their poverty. The blood of Christ is od no avail.
Wesley spent a good deal of time having an affair in Georgia. Calvin spent a good deal of time chasing down the Baptist church's predecessors with a pitchfork, stake, and some firewood. Luther spent 20 years in *gasp* the Catholic Church.
That's not to compare Barry to any sort of good role model, but it does illustrate that you could have leveled much worse charges against the people who help inform the Protestant understanding of the Bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:42:26 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3735
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Btw... I don't support McCain...
Then you support Obama. After all, if you're not with the Republican presidential nominee, you're against him. 
Actually I am against evil...
Any thoughts on Obama's support for what the bible calls evil?
quote:
If the US loses its rights-based democracy, the government wouldn't be involved in politics anymore.
Politics can lead to oppression.... Slavery was oppression... Abortion is oppression...
quote:
I really don't know. I just know that the odds of this election resolving the abortion issue are about 1 in 1,000,000, so for me, the issue is pretty moot.
And that bit of rationalizing makes it ok to support someone who does...
quote:
I'll admit I can't defend abortion,
Yet you defend those who gain and maintain politic office by supporting it...
quote:
although I think it's silly to call a politician a murderer for not wanting to prevent a woman from taking a life that she isn't necessarily sure really exists, yet.
And it's only silly because you have rationalize it to the point that I must assume that everyone who supports and has an abortion is a complete idiot since they don't realize that what comes out of the womb alive wasn't dead prior...
quote:
A voting record isn't really the kind of tangible fruit Jesus was talking about, IMHO.
His support for murder and sexual perversion are not the fruit Jesus would like to see, yet it's surely the type He will take exception to and deal with...
quote:
Well, wait a sec. We've been talking about Obama and his ungodly beliefs since Rush Limbaugh realized he had a chance to become the next president. When are we gonna talk about his alternatives?
Heh... How did Rush Limbaugh make into this??? The level of obfuscation about Obama's issues is getting silly...
Like I said...
The last thing you'll ever talk about is the truth regarding Obama and his ungodly beliefs.
quote:
Would you settle for a time machine with the dial set to anything before the mid-70s?
How about we settle on dealing with things that are real, like Obama and his ungodly beliefs.
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:51:07 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3735
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Depends on your theological views.
The saved repent and believe, those who continue on the road to wrath don't.... One is a new creature in Christ, so, no God's people are not like most sinners... To believe that the saved and the unsaved are the same is to argue that salvation has no bearing on man's condition... That no change takes place...
quote:
I really don't get it. Obama's problems are a horse that has been killed, beaten into a pulp, turned into glue, and are now being used plaster over all of his opponent's problems, which happen to be several oversized elephants. I think there are about 200 threads about Obama on this forum, and you're free to continue focusing on his politics in any of those threads.
What problems? You deny he has any....
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:55:02 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Any thoughts on Obama's support for what the bible calls evil?
The Bible calls murder evil. I am trying to find the verse where it calls abortion evil.
The truth is that the Bible doesn't explicitly call abortion evil. I don't like it; I hope it stops, but I know it really doesn't matter when my choices are McCain and Obama. Meanwhile, there is a $9.6 Trillion debt to start paying back.
quote:
Yet you defend those who gain and maintain politic office by supporting it...
You do business with plenty of companies that support abortion, too. If you want to truly stop supporting abortion, you will have to go be a hermit.
quote:
And it's only silly because you have rationalize it to the point that I must assume that everyone who supports and has an abortion is a complete idiot since they don't realize that what comes out of the womb alive wasn't dead prior...
Or tragically mistaken. We seem to be caught in this rut where people assume it isn't murder because the government doesn't stop them. And the government doesn't stop them because people don't assume it's murder. The better place to start would be to work on the people than to work on the government, IMHO.
quote:
Heh... How did Rush Limbaugh make into this??? The level of obfuscation about Obama's issues is getting silly...
Like I said...
The last thing you'll ever talk about is the truth regarding Obama and his ungodly beliefs.
I think they're really irrelevant. Both McCain and Obama aren't going to stop abortion. Let's talk about McCain's ungodly beliefs.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/4/2008 11:57:21 PM
|
|
|
tracydolls
Posts: 1566
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
The saved repent and believe, those who continue on the road to wrath don't.... One is a new creature in Christ, so, no God's people are not like most sinners... To believe that the saved and the unsaved are the same is to argue that salvation has no bearing on man's condition... That no change takes place...
G-d's people are not like most sinners, huh?
there's different KIND of sinners now?
WE are all sinners, I thought.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 12:07:54 AM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3735
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
The Bible calls murder evil. I am trying to find the verse where it calls abortion evil.
Abortion is murder... The bible doesn't mention murder with a gun, or flying a plane into a building yet reasonable people can conclude that the bible is clear that when one takes life unjustly it is murder... There is no just cause to kill a child in the womb... The bible doesn't grant it...
quote:
The truth is that the Bible doesn't explicitly call abortion evil.
That's not truth, but rationalizing to avoid the truth...
What's next? The bible doesn't condemn homosexuality?
quote:
I don't like it; I hope it stops,
Yet you are going to vote for someone who likes it, uses it to gain and maintain political office and hopes it doesn't stop...
Let my guess... You don't have much reason to believe it will ever stop...
quote:
You do business with plenty of companies that support abortion, too. If you want to truly stop supporting abortion, you will have to go be a hermit.
More rationalizing....
quote:
Or tragically mistaken. We seem to be caught in this rut where people assume it isn't murder because the government doesn't stop them.
We? Only those who choose to stick their head in the sand believe it's not murder...
quote:
And the government doesn't stop them because people don't assume it's murder. The better place to start would be to work on the people than to work on the government, IMHO.
Ok... Hey... Stop supporting those who insure abortion is legal... Is it working?
I think they're really irrelevant. Both McCain and Obama aren't going to stop abortion. Let's talk about McCain's ungodly beliefs.
Start a thread... Though since you don't see murder and sexual perversion as ungodly beliefs I am wondering what you will deem ungodly regarding McCain...
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 12:12:49 AM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3735
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
The saved repent and believe, those who continue on the road to wrath don't.... One is a new creature in Christ, so, no God's people are not like most sinners... To believe that the saved and the unsaved are the same is to argue that salvation has no bearing on man's condition... That no change takes place...
G-d's people are not like most sinners, huh?
there's different KIND of sinners now?
WE are all sinners, I thought.
Salvation means nothing? God's people repent, seek to right their wrongs, deal with those who they offend and attempt by the grace of God to be Christ like...
All sinners do the above? No...
Do you believe that salvation has no bearing on man's condition? That being a new creature in Christ is of no value, that a change doesn't occur when is made alive in Christ?
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 1:16:23 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 952
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
Where can I sign up for the "Help Jesus dispense judgement" club? Oh! Oh! Me too, me too! 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 9:37:02 AM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Dear Moderators,
May we Please Please PLEASE have an abortion one-stop?!? Aren't 100+ high-jacked threads enough? 
This sounds like a good idea, but it violates the liberal principal of open, rational debate.
My suggestion is that we simply refuse to debate it at this point. It's become a dead horse.
Now, there are some people who can't resist a debate on abortion. These are the people who will show up in a thread and say, "But the Dems are Vampires because they support abortion." (I don't think anyone who has participated in this thread so far has done this, but there are people on this board who sometimes do this.) For these people, we can just respond with fascetious humor. ("I vant to suck your blood. And raise your taxes.")
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 8/5/2008 10:12:53 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 4:43:05 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
Wesley spent a good deal of time having an affair in Georgia.
Where's the proof. Any way, Wesley has a miserable time of it when he was here in the America's. Even though he was an Anglican priest, he wasn't comverted until he heard Luther's preface to Romans and then he felt his heart warmed.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 4:45:41 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
The truth is that the Bible doesn't explicitly call abortion evil.
What did he call those who worshiped Molech. And what was their sacriffice?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 5:40:13 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Where's the proof. Any way, Wesley has a miserable time of it when he was here in the America's. Even though he was an Anglican priest, he wasn't comverted until he heard Luther's preface to Romans and then he felt his heart warmed.
http://www.theopedia.com/John_Wesley
The Methodist church acknowledges this event. As an Anglican minister, he acknowledged Jesus was Lord with his mouth- and likely would have believed it in his heart if he were willing to go to Georgia for the Church. Paul specifically defines those people as "saved."
Christians still do terrible things. Calvin would be a perfect example. In modern history, the Pentecostal Efrain Rios Montt, who was dictator of Guatemala from 1982-1986, oversaw a government that was involved in countless atrocities against indigenous people in his war against Marxism. And that's not to mention the various philandering that prominent Christians have done in the past 30 years.
Christians are often misguided, confused, and sometimes downright wicked. That doesn't mean they're not Christian.
quote:
What did he call those who worshiped Molech. And what was their sacriffice?
Their firstborn child.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 7:24:43 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3735
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Their firstborn child.
See it's not that hard to defend it..
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/5/2008 10:30:19 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
Their firstborn child.
And where do you get it was just their first born?
Lev 18:21 (ESV) 21You shall not give any of your children to offer them£ to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
Lev 20:1 - 5 (ESV) 1The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2“Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. 3I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name. 4And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, 5then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.
Jer 32:33 - 35 (ESV) 33They have turned to me their back and not their face. And though I have taught them persistently, they have not listened to receive instruction. 34They set up their abominations in the house that is called by my name, to defile it. 35They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
The result of compromise
1 Kin 11:7 - 8 (ESV) 7Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, and for Molech the abomination of the Ammonites, on the mountain east of Jerusalem. 8And so he did for all his foreign wives, who made offerings and sacrificed to their gods.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/7/2008 9:57:03 PM
|
|
|
lightshineon
Posts: 3418
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I could not as a christian woman seperate, my beliefs from my voting for Obama from my faith.A Christian is not just a belief system, it is everything you are. IMHO, one can not seperate, or split who you are for any reason.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Will Obama wake a sleepy church? - 8/11/2008 9:56:18 PM
|
|
|
wing2000
Posts: 964
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
Do you think if Obama comes into office with his partial birth abortion and being born alive does not entitle a person to actually live that it will stir the church into action. Some think that if we are put under enough pressure we will but others felt that many Christians in this country were spoiled and apathetic so they would not really care. I don't know about that but I thought I would ask your thoughts on this.
It's telling that so many evaluate the state of today's church by who a is elected the head of the secular institution we call the United States of America.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
