RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because of His Children's Sins?
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 12:47:14 PM
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revbob4God
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I was enjoying the posts after the original, Especially RC's. Admittedly, the link was harder to spot than I am used to.
Yes, unfortunately, a lot of name calling, not a mark o discernment or wisdom, If I may be blunt. (Praises, Sylvia fixed the stuck a key)
But herein lies the blessing of radio and television ministry, it is just plain tooooooo easy to cut it off.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 1:10:39 PM
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DenimDiva
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I have recently decided not to join the church I mentioned in THE DUDE?!?! THREAD because of incidences happening with his children and step-children and what I mentioned in the thread I linked.
This pastor is well known in this area because he runs commercials for the church. His home is on the way to my dad's house. There have been way too many times when I have driven by there and seen the police in front of his house. His children and step-children have had many run-ins with the law, mostly regarding drugs.
I don't expect perfection from a pastor or his family. I do expect that they will try harder.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 6:31:36 PM
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gaylel1
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First of all, let me explain something here...
First of all, I'm not a mean-spirited person, nor I do not spread gossip about people. And to parphase from a former co-worker, if people talk about you, you are doing something right. And that is true in the ministry, because there are people who are talked about, even from that particular website and others.
And when you are talked about like that, God is blessing, and yes, their ministries are florishing.
Secondly, the reason why the website was on the OP is because I did not want to have people to create gossip here. This is what this certian indivisual said and in the beginning of my post, I did not appreciate what he said and yes, I lost all respect for him with the manner he said it.
In fact, all of you who went on that web site need to pray for that indivisual and if you make comments to him, please do it in love and concern. I do all the time.
Thirdly, those who are PK's, whether they are in mega churches or medium sized churches or even small churches are not perfect. They have pressures to be like the pastor--oh, the pastor is not perfect neither and he and his children are sinners and they go through things just like you and I.
Fourth, this indisual did what he could raising his kids in a christ-like manner. And when they are adults, they are not under their parent's roofs, but they are on their own as far as their decisions go. They have to make choices on how they behave.
In conclusion, I don't think pastors should step down from the ministry because of the actions of their children and not cast them aside. This is why we need to pray for our pastors and their families.
_____________________________
In Loving memory...
Christopher "Topher" Laurie
Called home to glory on July 24, 2008
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 6:46:37 PM
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revbob4God
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I dont believe anyone can disagree with your good intentions. But I have to be honest. Calling another member of the clergy an idiot in a public forum is just not right.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 5:53:09 AM
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lightshineon
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If we are talking about GL son, that is a non-issue, children are not under the home covering when they leave home. Pastor RC, I am wondering what made you think that it was time to return to the mnistry after your dear daughter, became pregnant? This is not a slam, I admire you very much, I am just curious, when you knew it was time, and what made you know your family was indeed in order. You can respond in general terms if you wish. Thanks. 
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 9:59:56 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
If we are talking about GL son, that is a non-issue, children are not under the home covering when they leave home. Pastor RC, I am wondering what made you think that it was time to return to the mnistry after your dear daughter, became pregnant? This is not a slam, I admire you very much, I am just curious, when you knew it was time, and what made you know your family was indeed in order. You can respond in general terms if you wish. Thanks.
At the time I returned to the ministry my family had been in order for two years, my daughter had her child, was reising the child in our home, and she had returned to school. There were no problems with our other children during that time. Whatever errors I had been making with my family had been rrectifies and I felt been rectifited for a sufficient time that they were pemnenant fixes and not temporal.
So after much prayer, I returned to the full time ministry. (during that two years along with ministering to my family, I finished up my higher education and did much Bible study.
My daughter finished high school (validictorian. national honor society), recieved her doctorate from the University of Texas, and now is a happily married wife and mother to her first son and a new son. She is in the education profession.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 10:12:33 AM
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Qtman
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First let me say I admire Rcjames for his stand in this situation. I don't believe you should have left the ministry but I do understand your position and respect your decision.
NOW I am a so-called PK. I would really hate to think people would have held my dad responsible for the foolish actions I took as a teenager and young adult. He raised me in church and tried his best to raise me right.
With that said I think people tend to watch PK's much closer than they do other kids. One of my friend's dad own a beer store and was known as a trouble maker and rabble rouser. Yet Jackie and I could be walking down the street both say, smoking for instance, and what would be said was "you know I saw Brother Sam's son yesterday and he was smoking". Not a word about Jackie.
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Please Remember our Military Past and Present. ALL gave some, SOME gave all.
<The Dutchess of Millbrook
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 1:21:26 PM
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revbob4God
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Maybe I am wrong, but I am less concerned about the issue regarding this particular individuals
son, and more concerned regarding some of the language used on the web site and I believe others shared that concern. If you wanted specific comments regarding specific issues, well that is hard to do. People may have different concerns and approach them in different ways. RC God Bless you and I think you made the right decision because you are a man of God, and you did what you believed to be right, and you are still doing what you believe to be right. I refrain from comment on gayle's post regarding issues with the son because IMHO, that is between the Pastor and God, and the way he deals with the issue must portray a Godly attitude, an attitude of stewardship and also a reflection of God's mercy, forgiveness, and love.
Wht I do not approve of is the way he spoke of another member of the clergy. Although we all come from different walks of life, and we all may be of different denominations, it is first and foremost that we extend tolerance and respect for one another and that means refraining from calling people idiots and fools in public places for any reasons, and I am aware that there is direct scriptural reference to this Pro 10:18 He that hideth hatred [with] lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, [is] a fool. Pro 6:19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 3:11:45 PM
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lightshineon
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Thank You pastor RC, for kind and very honest reply. It is good to know though things happen, there is restoration in God's love. Do you think it depends on the time length per individual? Does scripture say, a man should step down if a sin occurs? Does the verse refer only to those that are picked to be elders, deacons and such. Does the word, say anywhere that leadershipshould step down when sin occur, with children? I do not know that is why I am asking. I have a good knowldge of the word, but, I have never read that command in scripture. I have read qualifacations for the office, but, never anything specific about stepping down. I am wondering if the Elder/ Pastor should get things in line and quickly with family as much as possible. I know in scripture talking about if an elder ( himself sins) he should be brought before the body, so all may fear, but I see nothing about family. I maybe wrong, I am asking your opinion, seeing you re really a good pastor, and I admire your wisdom.
Thanks, Bless You. BTW, if a pastors wife is in sin, does this apply in your opinion also?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 3:35:29 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Thank You pastor RC, for kind and very honest reply. It is good to know though things happen, there is restoration in God's love. Do you think it depends on the time length per individual? Does scripture say, a man should step down if a sin occurs?
I chose that timeframe for myself because I was sure at the end of it any problems that may have existed did not exist any longer.
I am not so sure about "When A sin occurs" (remembering grace) but Scripture definitaly says the family must be in order to be qualified. So by inference if someone becomes unqualified during service; then yes they should step down.
quote:
Does the verse refer only to those that are picked to be elders, deacons and such. Does the word, say anywhere that leadershipshould step down when sin occur, with children? I do not know that is why I am asking. I have a good knowldge of the word, but, I have never read that command in scripture. I have read qualifacations for the office, but, never anything specific about stepping down. I am wondering if the Elder/ Pastor should get things in line and quickly with family as much as possible. I know in scripture talking about if an elder ( himself sins) he should be brought before the body, so all may fear, but I see nothing about family. I maybe wrong, I am asking your opinion, seeing you re really a good pastor, and I admire your wisdom.
I personally believe this applies to all who are in leadership (and I guess that who is in leadership is up for grabs). But as I said if one in not qualified they should not become leaders, and if one who is a leader becomes disqualified; then they should step down.
As a side-note when I discuss the possibility of someone becoming an Elder or Deacon and explain Scripture to them in this area; a lot of them change their minds.
quote:
Thanks, Bless You. BTW, if a pastors wife is in sin, does this apply in your opinion also?
Absolutely applies to the wife (She is family under the responsibility of the Pastor); and by the way one of the infractions would be gossiping (which is a sin).
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/6/2008 9:04:06 PM
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slushie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I follow the crowd on this one - living at home under the pastor's (or elder or deacon) roof, then if there are problems he should step down.
No one can be responsible for how someone acts who lives elsewhere except that person themself. In that case he should not be asked to step down.
I agree completely.
I didn't look at the website. WHOA.
_____________________________
Testify to Love
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 12:34:51 AM
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ironsharpensiron
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As I was reading all of your posts I was thinking of Billy Graham and how his son turned away from God for a season. I realize Billy was an 'evangelist' and not a 'pastor' per se', but their are similarities to. The son returned to his faith eventually, and his ministry was really blessed~~perhaps because of what he learned when he had walked away from God. It shaped who he is today, and now he reaches out in an understanding way to even more lost souls.
So I suppose my point in writing all that is consider if Billy had stepped down during that time. How many people would not have come to know Jesus as their Savior and Lord..?
Kinda interesting, huh..?
It truly is sad when people, who call themselves Christians~followers of Jesus~criticize a greiving family. Very sad.
matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 8:47:00 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
As I was reading all of your posts I was thinking of Billy Graham and how his son turned away from God for a season. I realize Billy was an 'evangelist' and not a 'pastor' per se', but their are similarities to. The son returned to his faith eventually, and his ministry was really blessed~~perhaps because of what he learned when he had walked away from God. It shaped who he is today, and now he reaches out in an understanding way to even more lost souls.
So I suppose my point in writing all that is consider if Billy had stepped down during that time. How many people would not have come to know Jesus as their Savior and Lord..?
Kinda interesting, huh..?
It truly is sad when people, who call themselves Christians~followers of Jesus~criticize a greiving family. Very sad.
matthew
Wasn't Graham's son grown when he turned from the Lord?
I am also not so sure that passage means that each member of the family must be born again, Chuch workers, just not out of order and bringing reproach to the minister.
If While Franklin was at home and while under the responsibility of Bro. Graham the son was living a hellish life style and was out of order then Graham should have stepped down.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 9:16:02 AM
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DSmitty
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I'm a little unclear on all of the particulars of the situation that is being discussed, but I wanted to offer my two cents on the subject in general, for what it's worth...
I do believe that the Scripture in 1 Tim. 3 is clearly saying that if you are going to qualify to lead God's people you have to at least have some boundaries and discipline and structure in place in your own home. However, having all of those things doesn't necessarily mean that your kids aren't going to have any issues, and it doesn't mean that you have failed as a parent if they have them. As a parent, you are responsible for providing the best atmosphere that you can that would encourage your children to make the right choices in life. But ultimately, they will be the ones making those choices.
Pastors kids have other influences. They have expectations put on them - sometimes by their parents and sometimes by congregants or both - that other children don't typically have. It's not uncommon for them to rebel against that. The problem here happens when there is more of a concern about image than about true godliness. Everyone in the Body of Christ, whether they are a pastor, a pastor's child, or a layperson, needs to feel safe. No one feels safe in an environment where they are ostracized for making a mistake. In some cases people - children in particular - will make those "mistakes" to test the true nature of your love. Is it unconditional?
I believe that the goal in raising your child is more along the lines of what kind of a person your child will be in the overall picture than immediate behavior modification. Albeit, if a child is just plain unruly then there's a problem. But in the bigger picture I'm more concerned that my children overall will be godly people who come into all that God has purposed for their lives than I am about how they act in a restaurant. And yes, my kids have embarrassed me in restaurants so I speak from experience  .
Here's some more food for thought along this line: the scripture in Proverbs that says "raise up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old he shall not depart from it"... very misunderstood scripture. Although it would certainly include being raised up to love and serve God (that's the way we all should go) if you understand the original language, it's really not the emphasis. Hebrew is a very picturesque language - and consequently it doesn't always translate well into English because English - not so much. But it uses the image of an archers bow, and the particular "bend" in that bow. In other words "the way that HE (or SHE) should go as an individual. That they should serve the Lord is a given. But what are your child's strengths and weaknesses? Do you discourage them about the areas were they are strong because you feel that "well, there's too much competition in that field... they'll never make any money at it"? You shouldn't. You should encourage them to find God in the things that they're passionate about... the things that they love. Don't try to force them into a mold that you want them to fit in. And I think that that's also part of ruling your house well because you relate to your children as individuals and not just based on some religious principle. It's the same for a pastor - you have to relate to your congregation based on a loving compassionate understanding of where they're at and what they're going through. It's only natural then that this should first start in your home.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 9:18:21 AM
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revbob4God
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Welcome Smitty. By the way, what are your thoughts on a Pastor who resorts to Public name-calling, and of other specific Specific pastors?
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 9:36:34 AM
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Qtman
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RC I agree with your post. Let me share this.
I was married as a teenager. It predictably did not last. I returned to the Lord and got my life straightened out a few years later. Met my wonderful wife now of 34 years and have been truly blessed. I was several times nominated for the position of deacon in my local Church. I felt in my heart I had to turn down the nomination because of my previous marriage and to this day have never served as a deacon.
Also my youngest daughter, although she was grown and out of my household, got pregnant a couple of months before she was married. I did not learn this until the night of the wedding rehearsal. I had asked a minister we had know and loved for years to perform the wedding ceremony. In fact he was the same preacher that baptized my daughter. I took him to the side and explained the situation to him out of respect and let him make the decision whether to do the wedding or not. He did perform the wedding ceremony BTW. But it was his choice. In my heart I believe I did the right thing in both cases.
_____________________________
Please Remember our Military Past and Present. ALL gave some, SOME gave all.
<The Dutchess of Millbrook
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 10:02:50 AM
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mrsrevbob
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I really believe that in this instance, the issue has rules and limitations, but I also believe that there is always a danger in a situation like this where people may judge individuals too harshly, and create situations where others who would do great service fall into situations like Qtman, and I believe QTman should reconsider service in a deaconship due to the fact that the wisdom that you have gained and your perceptions of Christianity would benefit a congregation.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 10:16:02 AM
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Qtman
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Dear mrsrevbob4God,
You are to kind. There is a part of me that would love to but my heart still says no. Maybe someday but I will have to have a real change in heart.
ETA I have spent my Church life working with the youth and have been very blessed.
_____________________________
Please Remember our Military Past and Present. ALL gave some, SOME gave all.
<The Dutchess of Millbrook
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 10:47:51 AM
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kernsfamily
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Didn't read EVERYTHING on this thread.....but, have an answer to the question....
Should pastors step down from the ministry because of his children's sins?
Biblically, yes.
Then, is there a total agreement on what consititutes "sinful behavior" (enough for the pastor to step down?).....Is the kid a felon? Or, did he/she get "caught" listening to that "evil" rock & roller music? (I know plenty of people who would be inclined to say BOTH)
If pastors DO step down because of "children's sins".....(of course that is KNOWN "children's sins").....which pastors DON'T "step down"? Those fortunate enough to have "perfect" children.....and, those resourceful enough to successfully "Sweep under the rug" and simply hide any 'issues' that seem serious enough to perhaps "warrant" stepping down, are saved from the humilation caused by stepping down because of the children's actions..........you know...like they did with most everything "back in the "good old days"......and everyone goes on with their lives as if it never happened......
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 10:52:31 AM
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revbob4God
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quote:
You are to kind. There is a part of me that would love to but my heart still says no. Maybe someday but I will have to have a real change in heart.
Sylvia had to take one of the grandkids to the doctor, but wanted me to let you know she is praying for you and for your ministry, in whatever walk you accept, to continue to grow and be nourished.
IMHO, youre one of the best
Bob
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 11:02:53 AM
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Qtman
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I'm blushing here. Sound like Mr. revbob4god and Mrs. revbob4gor belong together. And I mean that as a compliment.
_____________________________
Please Remember our Military Past and Present. ALL gave some, SOME gave all.
<The Dutchess of Millbrook
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 3:03:54 PM
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gmc4Jesus
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I haven't read all of the posts, but I do have some thoughts on this issue.
If you remember David in the Old Testament, here was a mighty King, spiritual leader, man of God. Recall that his sons rebelled against him to the point that he had to flee for his own life. He was not disqualified or removed from being King by God or the people, but because of the actions of his own son.
I have known several ministers whose children have rebelled and brought shame. That didn't diminish the authority or qualifications of the man to preach.
I beleive that the admonitions in I Timothy apply to children still in the home. When they are growing up, a father needs to show that he can lead his home and raise them in the ways of the Lord. Once they are grown, they are on their own and the parents are no longer responsible for their choices or behavior.
In particular to Greg Laurie's situation, I believe it would be a travesty to the Kingdom of God to blame him for something his over 30 son did. The good side is that the son knew Jesus. Greg is going through enough pain and tragedy without someone trying to suggest that he isn't qualified to preach because of something his grown son chose to do.
If a grown child's behavior can be used to disqualify a man (or woman) from serving God, almost all of us would be disallowed. Our churches would languish for preachers, teachers and leaders. God is a God of grace and forgiveness, not a God of legalism and rules.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 3:29:57 PM
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rcjames
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There is always a lot of push and pull when this subject is being discussed. The main verse of course is;
(1Ti 3:4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
And I do believe that the Holy Spirit knew there would be resistance to obeying this verse; so as always in Scripture the next verse explains why;
(1Ti 3:5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
There is the command, and there is God's reasoning for the command. That, in by book, makes it kinda hard to argue with.
The leaders responsibility of the leader is to take care of the family of God, so taking care of their own family should be a piece of cake, or they are not leadership material.
when this happened to me; my Church did not want me to step down, my denomination did not want me to step down, and every Pastor I knew counseled me not to step down. But I had to be obedient to Scripture.
When I questioned them as why, the reasoning the Pastor's gave was that I would set a precedent that they might be held to if the same circustances happened to them. Well duh.
My response was to take care of the family and do not let it happen to you; then you will not have to deal with it.
We as Christians, and especially we as leaders should never put our ministries, our egos, our repatations, or anything else about the simplistic instructions in the Word of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 3:33:12 PM
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Qtman
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Thats what I like about you RC. You talk the talk and walk the walk. You practice what you preach. Wish everyone did.
_____________________________
Please Remember our Military Past and Present. ALL gave some, SOME gave all.
<The Dutchess of Millbrook
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/7/2008 9:33:25 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3359
Joined: 4/11/2005
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This whole qestion brings to mind Eli, and his sons. All Eli, had to do was to deal with them, and get the situation under control. If a person in leadership gets control of the situation then why should they step down? Some things cannot be brought under control, like a son or daughter being in a sexual relationship, become pregnant without marriage. Though, if a person steps down, the baby is born, then steps back up after awhile, and the DD still has a baby without being married, and people will still see it as a reproach on Christ. This is not refering to you pastor RC, just thinking how people are. I believe a person can get a situation under control, it is not impossible. I do not know any person who has not gossiped, as we are talking about wifes, and husbands, children. I believe instead of stepping down in ( some cases), they show leadership skills, by getting control. I do not see where leaders are commanded to step down for mistakes made by children.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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