Where is sin? (Full Version)

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Concerto -> Where is sin? (8/2/2008 2:17:14 PM)

We all know what sin is.

1. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

2. Sin is also a vast moral disease that has infected mankind. The disease was introduced to mankind at the fall.

My question is, where is sin? We know that it resides within us, but, is it possible that it is present within our blood while undetectable by normal scientific means? Or, is it completely invisible? We certainly see the effects of sin, but does it reside somewhere within that is detectable?

C



Psalms274 -> RE: Where is sin? (8/2/2008 2:42:24 PM)

To be honest ... I think it's everywhere!!!

This is a silly, but true story. While living in the country I went out of my front door to the car. On my way I saw two lizards fighting. One had the other in what looked like a strangle hold. I was horrified and knocked the fence they were on. They immediately ran in separate directions.

I started to cry, hard. The whole way to work I was praying confessing the sins of the world. I told our dear Father, "Lord, it's all our fault that the animals are killing one another. If we hadn't sinned, they would be getting along."

As to a blood test, I suspect there would not be a way to see sin in that sense, the same way we do not see the wind but we know it's there.



terryjohn -> RE: Where is sin? (8/2/2008 2:57:10 PM)

What is not of faith is sin so there actually may be some very good deeds that are actually sins if not done in faith. You could also say that some seemingly evil actions may then not be sins, if done in faith. Now faith would need here be carefully defined as love for Christ and others. So some evil actions are just sin and could never be justified by faith.

Where do we find sin? Any where we do not find faith and love for Christ. Remembering that it is impossible to please Him by doing good without faith.



mvic -> RE: Where is sin? (8/2/2008 5:29:43 PM)

Sin is an act. It is not an entity or material substance.

If it were detectable in our blood they would have invented a vaccine against it !!!!



Walker311 -> RE: Where is sin? (8/2/2008 6:40:20 PM)

quote:

My question is, where is sin?


Sin resides in the eyes and ears. Basicly the same tools we use for seeing and hearing the oposite of sin.

However, if you stick plugs in your ears and keep your eyes covered, you will still find a way to sin.

In human terms, it is like a disease that originated with Adam and Eve's disobedience.



LCannon -> RE: Where is sin? (8/2/2008 9:57:34 PM)

We(all mankind)inherited our propensity to sin(our arrogant nature against His obedience and dictates in unbelief of His appropriation) from Adam's fall from his innocence. "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man(Adam)came death, by another man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."(1 Corinthians 15:20-22)



NightJay0044 -> RE: Where is sin? (8/2/2008 11:47:53 PM)

Hi, well to make some notes of this; I think the previous poster is right "Sin is everywhere" Because it comes from within us like you have understood.

quote:

My question is, where is sin? We know that it resides within us, but, is it possible that it is present within our blood while undetectable by normal scientific means? Or, is it completely invisible? We certainly see the effects of sin, but does it reside somewhere within that is detectable?


To say the least, I don't think it's possible to detect sin in your blood stream but keep in mind it's just my pressumption. Why because sin is a desire and only the person who has the desire can know what it is, there is no way something can look within you and discover your exact desire. Sure there can be blood test, tests on how your brain reacts under certain conditions but it could go on forever, only you know how you feel, no technology can do this, to my knowledge anyways.

Please read these verses:

James 1:14,15:
"but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.† Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death".

So you see, it starts with our desire in some way or another. Sin is not completely invisible, you can see whenever someone produces the action of the sin their doing. But you can't always see how the person is feeling or desiring inside, so is it invisible, I don't think so.

So yep your right in most of your own questions, sin is detectable by the effects of what we do, but God can really only know our true desires and our sins even better then we do. So have faith in him and remember, whatever is not of faith is of sin, like the previous poster said to.

Hope this helpes



LCannon -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 12:13:35 AM)

As Potter Stewart said of pornography, "I know it when I see it." sin to a sensitive soul is evident because the Holy Spirit will convict him of his disobedience(or temptation)when he's in danger.



Liveloved -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 2:09:31 AM)

quote:

We all know what sin is.

1. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

2. Sin is also a vast moral disease that has infected mankind. The disease was introduced to mankind at the fall.

My question is, where is sin? We know that it resides within us, but, is it possible that it is present within our blood while undetectable by normal scientific means? Or, is it completely invisible? We certainly see the effects of sin, but does it reside somewhere within that is detectable?


Sin is our nature and resides in our heart, the core of our being. Perhaps we could say it is in our blood since the blood pumps through our whole body and affects every aspect of our physical life. It is certainly detectable but not by the methods of science. It is spiritually discerned. It is a supernatural thing. The new life we receive from Christ could be seen as a blood transfusion---His blood for ours.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 5:09:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

We all know what sin is.

1. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

2. Sin is also a vast moral disease that has infected mankind. The disease was introduced to mankind at the fall.

My question is, where is sin? We know that it resides within us, but, is it possible that it is present within our blood while undetectable by normal scientific means? Or, is it completely invisible? We certainly see the effects of sin, but does it reside somewhere within that is detectable?

C


Sin is something that we do or don't do, therefore it lies in our actions, not in our carcass.

But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. (James 1:14-15)

Sin is when we give in to temptation (yield to our strong desires) which leads us to transgress the law by doing what we know we shouldn't.

Tim



URForgiven -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 2:31:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

We all know what sin is.

1. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

2. Sin is also a vast moral disease that has infected mankind. The disease was introduced to mankind at the fall.

My question is, where is sin? We know that it resides within us, but, is it possible that it is present within our blood while undetectable by normal scientific means? Or, is it completely invisible? We certainly see the effects of sin, but does it reside somewhere within that is detectable?

C


Sin is something that we do or don't do, therefore it lies in our actions, not in our carcass.

But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. (James 1:14-15)

Sin is when we give in to temptation (yield to our strong desires) which leads us to transgress the law by doing what we know we shouldn't.

Tim


How does this fit with what Jesus says about sin in Matthew 5?

Peace



BerianAardvark -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 8:41:42 PM)

quote:

How does this fit with what Jesus says about sin in Matthew 5?

Peace


Are you referring to Matthew 5:21-30 where Jesus is demonstrating that murder starts with anger that is cherished and nurtured, and that adultery begins with allowing yourself to indulge in ogling? And that those things that stir up those sorts of strong desires in a person need to be dealt with by that person lest they lead them to sin? I would say that it fits in very well.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. (1 John 2:16)

Sin lies in living in a worldly manner, it is in our actions as we yield to our strong desires not in a specific portion of our anatomy.

Tim



deermousie -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 9:44:20 PM)

I think this ties in with "that which is visible is temporary, and that which invisible is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:18

There's a physical world and a spiritual world, and sin inhabits the latter.



URForgiven -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 11:18:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark

quote:

How does this fit with what Jesus says about sin in Matthew 5?

Peace


Are you referring to Matthew 5:21-30 where Jesus is demonstrating that murder starts with anger that is cherished and nurtured, and that adultery begins with allowing yourself to indulge in ogling? And that those things that stir up those sorts of strong desires in a person need to be dealt with by that person lest they lead them to sin? I would say that it fits in very well.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. (1 John 2:16)

Sin lies in living in a worldly manner, it is in our actions as we yield to our strong desires not in a specific portion of our anatomy.

Tim


So, for you, sin is only the outward act?

Peace



BerianAardvark -> RE: Where is sin? (8/3/2008 11:29:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

So, for you, sin is only the outward act?

Peace


Sin derives from yielding to our strong desires in an ungodly manner, that can be through action or in not acting because of greed or pride. Being temped is not a sin, yielding to the temptation is.

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)

Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, but without sin.

But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. (James 1:14-15)

It is only when our strong desires are acted upon that sin is birthed.

Tim
Caveat Ichthus
[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



URForgiven -> RE: Where is sin? (8/4/2008 10:31:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

So, for you, sin is only the outward act?

Peace


Sin derives from yielding to our strong desires in an ungodly manner, that can be through action or in not acting because of greed or pride. Being temped is not a sin, yielding to the temptation is.

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)

Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, but without sin.

But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. (James 1:14-15)

It is only when our strong desires are acted upon that sin is birthed.

Tim
Caveat Ichthus
[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]


It would seem that Jesus is saying that sin is something more than acting or not acting.

Matthew 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

To confine sin to only the outward, to the external, is what the very people Jesus was addressing in Matthew 5 were doing. Is not Jesus trying to impress on these people, and us, that sin is not the external, but the internal? That it is not a matter of behavior, but of the condition of mans heart?

Peace



BerianAardvark -> RE: Where is sin? (8/4/2008 2:06:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

It would seem that Jesus is saying that sin is something more than acting or not acting.

Matthew 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

To confine sin to only the outward, to the external, is what the very people Jesus was addressing in Matthew 5 were doing. Is not Jesus trying to impress on these people, and us, that sin is not the external, but the internal? That it is not a matter of behavior, but of the condition of mans heart?

Peace


Is Jesus saying that looking upon a woman lustfully is the same thing as the sin of adultery? In that case, since there is no difference between consequences of the desire and the action, being already guilty of the sin why not go ahead and physically indulge?

Or is He stating that the look, if not dealt with in a godly manner, will produce the action which IS sin. In other words, pointing out the root cause of sin, our own strong desires which we allow to influence us to sinful behavior?

The difference between committing adultery in the heart, and committing adultery in the flesh is manifest.

Jesus doesn't say that adultery in the heart is sin, but no one denies that the act of adultery is sin.

Had David merely turned away when he saw Bathsheba in her ablutions, would he have been guilty of sin?

He took a second (long and longing) look, then sent for her...he yielded to the strong desire and there by sinned.


YMMV,
Tim



URForgiven -> RE: Where is sin? (8/4/2008 2:48:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

It would seem that Jesus is saying that sin is something more than acting or not acting.

Matthew 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

To confine sin to only the outward, to the external, is what the very people Jesus was addressing in Matthew 5 were doing. Is not Jesus trying to impress on these people, and us, that sin is not the external, but the internal? That it is not a matter of behavior, but of the condition of mans heart?

Peace


Is Jesus saying that looking upon a woman lustfully is the same thing as the sin of adultery? In that case, since there is no difference between consequences of the desire and the action, being already guilty of the sin why not go ahead and physically indulge?

Or is He stating that the look, if not dealt with in a godly manner, will produce the action which IS sin. In other words, pointing out the root cause of sin, our own strong desires which we allow to influence us to sinful behavior?

The difference between committing adultery in the heart, and committing adultery in the flesh is manifest.

Jesus doesn't say that adultery in the heart is sin, but no one denies that the act of adultery is sin.

Had David merely turned away when he saw Bathsheba in her ablutions, would he have been guilty of sin?

He took a second (long and longing) look, then sent for her...he yielded to the strong desire and there by sinned.


YMMV,
Tim


Yes, Jesus is saying that looking upon a woman with lust is exactly the same thing as acting on that lust. That is the whole point of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is showing that if you really think you are righteous because you keep the law, because you do not sin externally, then you have missed the point entirely...and then He shows what is really required to make yourself acceptable to God. For man looks on the outside, but God looks on the heart.

He does not tell us this as a new and even more difficult set of laws to keep, but he tells us this to bury us. To show us that it is impossible for us to ever make ourselves acceptable to God. With the hope that it will drive us to Himself, as the only One who can make us acceptable to God.

Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners? And that is what Matthew 5 is showing us. Sin is not what we do, it is who we are without Christ. Who can rescue us from this body of death?

"Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ!"

Peace



Liveloved -> RE: Where is sin? (8/4/2008 3:01:07 PM)

quote:

Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners? And that is what Matthew 5 is showing us. Sin is not what we do, it is who we are without Christ. Who can rescue us from this body of death?

"Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ!"


Sin is not what we do. If it were, the lawkeepers such as the Apostle Paul, who in Philippians 3:6 is described "as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless" would have no need for Christ.

Sin is our nature apart from Christ. As I said earlier, that is why we need a blood transfusion. And that we have through Christ.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Where is sin? (8/6/2008 11:11:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners? And that is what Matthew 5 is showing us. Sin is not what we do, it is who we are without Christ. Who can rescue us from this body of death?

"Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ!"


Sin is not what we do. If it were, the lawkeepers such as the Apostle Paul, who in Philippians 3:6 is described "as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless" would have no need for Christ.

Sin is our nature apart from Christ. As I said earlier, that is why we need a blood transfusion. And that we have through Christ.


It is not merely a matter of keeping a set of rules, but also the attitude

Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained. (Philippians 3:15-16)

The righteousness which is found in the Law is all too often self righteousness, it was true of the Pharisees then and is true of those who are legalists today.

Christians also keep rules. Not a set of external rules, but ones "written on our hearts":

And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says, "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." (Hebrews 10:15-17)

And that is what Matthew 5 is addressing, it is from a wrong heart that anger at our brother can lead to murder, that looking at a beautiful woman leads to adultery.

Jesus is NOT saying that being angry at our brother is sin:

BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. (Ephesians 4:26-27)

But to be angry without cause, and not attempt to make things right, THAT is what leads to sin, even to murder. That is why Jesus says:
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. (Matthew 5:23-24)

rather than repent of your sin.

However if, from an unforgiving heart, we don't attempt to make things right, then we have "given an opportunity to the devil." and are well on our way towards sin.

But even unforgiveness isn't exactly a sin:
"For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. (Matthew 6:14-15)

But to not forgive indicates a hardness of heart that will keep us from being forgiven ourselves.

Matthew 5 isn't saying that looking at a woman is the equivalent of the sin of adultery any more than it is saying that being angry at your brother is the equivalent of murder. Anyone and everyone has emotions which include anger and even lustful thoughts, it is how we deal with them.

It isn't the anger or the lust that are the sin, but it is being yielded to something other than God that is sin. When we yield ourselves to our own strong desires, we are for that period of time desiring our own will more strongly than we are desiring God's will.....THAT is when we sin.

Tim



bob97 -> RE: Where is sin? (8/6/2008 12:00:52 PM)

Many human emotions seem to develop from the brain stem and are in fact urges that seem to control apart from the our normal intellect. An example of this would be the sex drive and anger. These emotions happen outside our normal thought process.

A good part of our spiritual development is our ability to recognize the urges and control them, not letting them control us.

In fact when the Bible says we are all born into sin, IMO it quite possibly resides in and is a result of the brain stem or hindbrain.

Bob



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