quote:

ORIGINAL: Kath

MichaelTheeArchAngel

Sustained argument against the Trinity is a violation of our Terms of Service 15.

Also, if your intent with the large font is to shout, you need to know that is a violation of TOS 12 so it might be advisable to take it down a notch.

Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator

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My size 4 font in blue is for making it easyer to find and read. If I go over size 4 then Im shouting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Since you will not give any thought to what I say, I will make it more plain to you. The Hovah part of Je-hovah means RUIN and MISCHIEF in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance #1943. Hovah is another form form #1942; RUIN and MISCHIEF

Mike, that had absolutely nothing to do with my post, other than to confirm how bad theology flows from the anti-Trinity premise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wreid77

And we come to it.

I hope this is not what you believe Michael, but once you said Jehovah is the god (little 'g') of hell I know I have heard this before. Either the Jews or the Christians demoized the serpent who was the chief creator and chose to worship Jehovah who is supposed to be the false god seeking to overthrow the good serpent. Is that what you believe. Please say it isn't.

Or would you compare Jehovah to the norse god loki? Simply a mischief maker?

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ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin

quote:

ORIGINAL: wreid77

And we come to it.

I hope this is not what you believe Michael, but once you said Jehovah is the god (little 'g') of hell I know I have heard this before. Either the Jews or the Christians demoized the serpent who was the chief creator and chose to worship Jehovah who is supposed to be the false god seeking to overthrow the good serpent. Is that what you believe. Please say it isn't.

Or would you compare Jehovah to the norse god loki? Simply a mischief maker?

Just wondering here MichaelTheeArchAngel... will you be answering this post anytime soon?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Since you will not give any thought to what I say, I will make it more plain to you. The Hovah part of Je-hovah means RUIN and MISCHIEF in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance #1943. Hovah is another form form #1942; RUIN and MISCHIEF

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Since you will not give any thought to what I say, I will make it more plain to you. The Hovah part of Je-hovah means RUIN and MISCHIEF in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance #1943. Hovah is another form form #1942; RUIN and MISCHIEF

This is just plain NONSENSE and shows a complete lack of understanding of the HEBREW Language (or any langauge for that matter). The root of Yehovah/Yawheh is HYH not HVH, a quick check of ANY theological dictionary will confirm this.

This is like saying that Shells are evil because you can find the word hell contained in the letters!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

If you believe that the Strong's Concordance is in error, then please show a scholarly resource that states other wise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Since you will not give any thought to what I say, I will make it more plain to you. The Hovah part of Je-hovah means RUIN and MISCHIEF in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance #1943. Hovah is another form form #1942; RUIN and MISCHIEF

This is just plain NONSENSE and shows a complete lack of understanding of the HEBREW Language (or any langauge for that matter). The root of Yehovah/Yawheh is HYH not HVH, a quick check of ANY theological dictionary will confirm this.

This is like saying that Shells are evil because you can find the word hell contained in the letters!

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

If you believe that the Strong's Concordance is in error, then please show a scholarly resource that states other wise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Since you will not give any thought to what I say, I will make it more plain to you. The Hovah part of Je-hovah means RUIN and MISCHIEF in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance #1943. Hovah is another form form #1942; RUIN and MISCHIEF

This is just plain NONSENSE and shows a complete lack of understanding of the HEBREW Language (or any langauge for that matter). The root of Yehovah/Yawheh is HYH not HVH, a quick check of ANY theological dictionary will confirm this.

This is like saying that Shells are evil because you can find the word hell contained in the letters!

Strong's is not in error, it never in any place connects HVH #1942-43 with God's name; that is something you just plain made up. Again that is just like trying to show a relationship between "shell" and "hell"; just because they share similar letters does not mean there is any relationship at all.

Under this listing for YHVH in "The brown-Driver-Brings Hebrew and English Lexicon it states that HVH in the Qal form is HYH, and that YHVH is the nominal form and means "He who will be". It is Strong's numbers 3068-69 and is connected with 1961 HYH (the verb 'to be')

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ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Once again we are not on the same page. I am talking about apples, and you are? Who knows?

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ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

If you believe that the Strong's Concordance is in error, then please show a scholarly resource that states other wise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

Since you will not give any thought to what I say, I will make it more plain to you. The Hovah part of Je-hovah means RUIN and MISCHIEF in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance #1943. Hovah is another form form #1942; RUIN and MISCHIEF

This is just plain NONSENSE and shows a complete lack of understanding of the HEBREW Language (or any langauge for that matter). The root of Yehovah/Yawheh is HYH not HVH, a quick check of ANY theological dictionary will confirm this.

This is like saying that Shells are evil because you can find the word hell contained in the letters!

Strong's is not in error, it never in any place connects HVH #1942-43 with God's name; that is something you just plain made up. Again that is just like trying to show a relationship between "shell" and "hell"; just because they share similar letters does not mean there is any relationship at all.

Under this listing for YHVH in "The brown-Driver-Brings Hebrew and English Lexicon it states that HVH in the Qal form is HYH, and that YHVH is the nominal form and means "He who will be". It is Strong's numbers 3068-69 and is connected with 1961 HYH (the verb 'to be')

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

It has everything to do with the post. Do you worship Jahovah the God of Hell; or do you worship Yahwah?

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If you believe that the Strong's Concordance is in error, then please show a scholarly resource that states other wise.

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ORIGINAL: benelchi

Just a thought, if your goal is simply to pronounce people and place names as they were originally spoken, you really should be reading only from the Hebrew bible and studying Linguistic Archeology. There really are a number of significant challenges to this goal.

1) In Hebrew many of the letters have sounds that do not exist in English, you MUST learn Hebrew if you really want to pronounce these names correctly.

2) Hebrew words (including names) can significantly change pronunciation depending on how that are used in a sentence. Some examples "Bethlehem" in Hebrew is "baith lechem", but "and Bethlehem" is "oovaith lechem"; Oh, and "h" or "ch" in the transliteration of "Bethlehem" represents a sound that does not exist in English. Another example, God is "Elohim", but "my God" is "Elohai", and "our God" is "Eloheynu", etc.. If you really want to pronounce the names in the bible correctly, you need to look at each instance and understand how it should be pronounced in that particular verse.

3) In very ancient Hebrew six letters changed their pronunciation based on rules of grammar. While all six letters still follow the same grammatical rules to indicate a change in pronunciation, in modern Hebrew only three really do change their pronunciation. At the time of Christ four (maybe five) did. Again when these letters should change pronunciation is indicated in the Hebrew text, but not in the English. By the way "Bethlehem" has two of these, the 'b/v' at the beginning, and the 't/th' at the end, and the t/th at the end is something that changed only in biblical Hebrew, in modern Hebrew this is always just 't' i.e. (Bait Lechem).

4) Many Hebrew letters have changed pronunciation over the centuries, including the 'vav' and 'Yohd" in "Yehovah/Yahweh", and interestingly enough the ancient pronunciation of 'vav' usually translated as "w" is again one of those sounds that does not exist in English. "w" is close but not quite right.

5) Almost all of the names of people and places in the Hebrew bible are transliterated in a way that represents the name to an English speaker, but does not sound like its transliteration, if we are going to be picky about how names are pronounced we really need a new method of transliteration i.e. a technical transliteration that indicates exactly which Hebrew letters are used so that we can pronounce the names correctly in English. The 'J' that you are so worried about in "Jehovah" is also present in names like Joshua, Jeremiah, Jerusalem, Jonah, etc..., etc..., etc...

6) The name YHVH slightly breaks the normal pattern for the conjugation of a verb/gerund from a Hebrew root, and consequently there are no rules to govern the insertion of vowels. Because the Jewish people believed (for at least the last 24 centuries and probably much longer) that pronouncing the name of God was only permitted by the High priest, and only once a year on the Day of Atonement, the correct pronunciation of this name has been lost and all attempts to pronounce this name are only a guess. As it is was pointed by the Masorites (They invented the Hebrew vowel pointings), it would have been "Yahovah/Yahowah", but we know they intentionally mispointed this word using the vowels pointings from 'Adonai' to remind people of the traditional verbal substitution. "Jehovah" comes from transliterating Yehovah into English using the same rule of "J' for "Y", just like it was done for Joshua, Jeremiah, Jonah, etc... Oh, and by the way the Translation of YHVH as 'Lord' in most English bibles is a reflection of the same verbal tradition of substituting "Adonai (Lord)" for "YHVH" when the text is read in Hebrew.


As a student of Hebrew, and someone who is fascinated by the field of linguistic archeology, I recognize the challenges that face anyone who really wants to use the correct pronunciation; no one can have any more assurance than just a best guess. I am so thankful that there is no biblical requirement to figure it out because it is really something that is beyond our grasp. Ultimately, I think this is something God did intentionally so that we would place our time and effort learning about who he is, and not about how his name is pronounced in Hebrew. Knowing who God is, is far more important to our faith than figuring out how to pronounce his Hebrew name.

If you really still believe that figuring out how to pronounce God's Hebrew name is really that important, all I can say is good luck in your studies, you have a lot of work ahead of you. Oh, and by the way the 'ah' ending in Hebrew is almost always a feminine ending, and since all references to God are masculine, the 'ah' ending of "Yahwah" is almost certainly wrong! For example a 'Moreh' is a male teacher, but a 'morah' is a female teacher. Back to the drawing board I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Mike, like I said a couple of times, since I am one of His blood-bought, joint-heirs, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, I address Him as Abba, Father. When you're related to the Father by adoption, you're not hung up on insignificant details, like how to pronounce something that cannot be pronounced since it isn't known.

BTW, I watched an interesting documentary on another "Michael" last night. One named Michael Travesser. You ought to read up on him to see what theology gone bad from wrong assumptions can do to a person - and others that trust his delusions.

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It is my understanding that gendering of Hebrew is more modren than the most ancient. I do not know when that change came about.

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ORIGINAL: MichaelTheeArchAngel

It would be nice if you would find something else to do besides harass me.