RE: Is Church too feminine?

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RE: Is Church too feminine?

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RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 3:17:41 PM

ta_mosquito

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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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I just read through the Men Only version of this thread. It's quite an interesting read.

The subject of music came up, how many songs are too high for men to sing.

I have to break it to the men - a lot of the old hymns in our hymnal are too high for the WOMEN to sing, forget the men! This is not a modern vs. hymn, masculine vs. feminine phenomenon. Some of those old hymns go way too high - I kick it down an octave.

Of course, the thing HAS to be up that high because the song has such a range, if you transpose it any lower, it'd be too low in spots.

We've come to a theory about the old hymns. Back when some of them were written, people were smaller due to nutrition or whatever. So their vocal chords were smaller, which means everyone could sing higher.

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"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren

Post #: 26

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 3:26:07 PM

phosadaud

Posts: 10609
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: saraimay75

I agree with LoyalFriend. My last church had men come and we had flowers tissue boxes and sang with feeling. We also hugged. The church I am currently going to may not have flowers or tissue boxes...But we sing with feeling. And we hug. I guess these men figure that church is only a part of the day and they can go tinker and watch sports after or before church. We have men singing on stage with feeling. Dancing also.

My chuch is also headed up by a husband and wife Pastoral team. When the wife spoke men came to hear her.

I guess these men are manning up to be with G-d.

See that's just what I don't get. What the heck have flowers and kleenex boxes to do with men being what God designed them to be? Seriously. I mean, if you are a man, why are you afraid of kleenex boxes you don't have to use and flowers you don't have to look at.

And even in my "manly" church, I've seen many men cry, I've seen many men on their knees worshipping God in those "touchy-feely" songs and I've seen many men, gasp!, hug each other!

C'mon guys! Have you read the Bible? Where does it say men don't emote or cry (I seem to recall a certain Son of God who wept on more than one occasion)? Where does it say that men can't enjoy God's creation (I seem to recall many beautiful descriptions and even images of flowers throughout Scripture and by Jesus - remember the lillies of the field?)? If men don't know how to be men, it's not because there are flowers in church (which is not a new thing by the way) and because churches actually discuss emotions and feelings (oooooh! Even Jesus talked about those thing. What was He thinking?). It's because there is this idea that men are all chest-thumping, emotionless, wimps who are apparently kept captive by flowers & kleenex boxes...

I guess I should just give up my career pursuits because it's too masculine and I'm a lady and just can't handle all that testerone.

Oh wait. Yes I can. The world doesn't revolve around me anymore than the church should revolve around any one gender...

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Post #: 27

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 4:05:00 PM

stellaluna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

You guys should check out the "where are the men" thread in ministry leaders. Enlightening.

Thanks... I needed to rekindle the urge to do this:

You are quite welcome.

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Who should be allowed to attend church?

Post #: 28

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 4:08:56 PM

phosadaud

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From: Washington State
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And of course, I just had to post 'cause I just can't keep my mouth shut sometimes.....

(I think I'm one of those obnoxious "controlling" women who is to blame for this mess with men and church because of course women shouldn't have an opinion, right?....)

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Post #: 29

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 4:20:43 PM

doinkdom

Posts: 4279
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

And of course, I just had to post 'cause I just can't keep my mouth shut sometimes.....

(I think I'm one of those obnoxious "controlling" women who is to blame for this mess with men and church because of course women shouldn't have an opinion, right?....)

yes...

yes you are

now sit down and cover that head!

seriously, if by me being quiet as a mouse would somehow parlay itself into men being men

I'd do it... but we all (as in men and women) know that ain't the real problem.

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Post #: 30

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 10:42:07 PM

landabee

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From: Central Florida
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I'm in agreement with those that say that a man that wants to be in church, will...........and one that doesn't won't.

I have a hard time reconciling the term "man" with someone that takes his ball and goes home because folks won't play the game their way. It ain't about YOU. It is about God.

I'm guessing that there are no Kleenex or flowers anywhere near their residences.......because surely, they would be unable to be responsible in their homes. It would simply be too uncomfortable to face.

So, the solution there would be to 'drabby-fy' your wife, surroundings and such. That way only you would the shining object of attention. No color coordination in the home, no niceties. I could go on ad nauseum... but I digress.

I'll be one of the first to say that the never ending, sappy and breathy choruses that sometimes are sung aren't my faves. I simply choose to close my eyes and pray. I dislike them as much as some of the men, I'm sure.

I don't particularly like that we are currently meeting in a high school gymnasium. But I go.

If a man has to ask for permission to be a man, or has to have an atmosphere devoid of any emotion thought to be too girly........how much of a man is he?

Yep. I went there.

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Post #: 31

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 10:51:23 PM

ta_mosquito

Posts: 11501
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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quote:

I don't particularly like that we are currently meeting in a high school gymnasium. But I go.

That sounds like a great place for a masculine church.

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Tricia

"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren

Post #: 32

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 11:00:37 PM

stellaluna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: landabee
'drabby-fy'

quote:

Yep. I went there.

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Post #: 33

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/30/2008 11:09:19 PM

phosadaud

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Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

quote:

ORIGINAL: landabee
Yep. I went there.

Ditto!

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~Kristin~

Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."

Post #: 34

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/31/2008 1:35:25 AM

loveleee

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/6/2008
From: Southern Gal
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I think (from my experience) that women have a tendency to "take over" in a way. I would love to see the men in our church do more. For example teach sunday school class or lead an activity that the church is participating in.

Post #: 35

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/31/2008 3:24:27 AM

lilmisskimmer

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Joined: 7/31/2008
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I personally find this question amusing as I am very involved in Church leadership and at Staff/Board meetings I am extremely outnumbered. I feel like I bring balance to the crew.

So if my church structure is too feminine it's because:

1. The leadership of my church is really in tune with there femininity.

2. It's the wives or maybe me as the lone female Pastor that are really running the show...

3. The men have withheld opinion and presence & they have some serious work to do!

___________________________________________________________________

In regards to tissue boxes - If that is the sole doing of women influence I think that in and of itself shows how much the church needs the ladies to take care of such practical essentials.

In regards to decoration & music choice - These issues go way beyond mere gender issues. People will always find something to complain about no matter what.

Final Thought: Church culture is defined by those involved in the community. If the culture of the church is "too feminine" Consider what role you will play to add a little more testosterone to the Mix.

Post #: 36

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/31/2008 8:52:23 AM

landabee

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Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loveleee

I think (from my experience) that women have a tendency to "take over" in a way. I would love to see the men in our church do more. For example teach sunday school class or lead an activity that the church is participating in.

Per usual: Women do what needs to be done. We don't take over.......... we fill vacancies.

Big.

Difference.

One puts the blame on women for daring to participate.

The other puts the blame where it belongs.

_____________________________

"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon

Post #: 37

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/31/2008 8:56:41 AM

landabee

Posts: 2859
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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Welcome to the forums lilmisskimmer

You might find this thread very interesting. Where Are the Men?

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Post #: 38

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/31/2008 9:13:56 AM

Consecrated2God

Posts: 4976
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:

perhaps it is because it is usually the women who decorate the sanctuaries...

I agree with this. If churches have become feminine, it's because the men left first. When the men pulled out, the women filled in the gaps. When they asked for volunteers to decorate and women showed up, they decorated to the best of their ability. It makes no sense for the men to complain how women are decorating the church if they didn't sign up to help.

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Post #: 39

RE: Is Church too feminine? - 7/31/2008 10:55:58 PM

phosadaud

Posts: 10609
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilmisskimmer
In regards to decoration & music choice - These issues go way beyond mere gender issues. People will always find something to complain about no matter what.

Exactly! I work at a church. I've heard it all... And the loudest complainers are rarely the ones who are actively ministering in the church. It's always someone else's job - they just sit back and grumble about how it's done...

_____________________________

~Kristin~

Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."

Post #: 40

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