Marital Advice - Help (Full Version)

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drifter17 -> Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 4:34:24 AM)

Greetings.

Let me begin by just saying that I am very weary and ashamed of where I am at because I was once a pastor and I am wrestling with the idea of divorce.

I am male, 24, and have been married for less than 3 years. My wife is 23. We have no kids.

Oh where to begin. I have always been a 'good guy.' I love the Lord and followed my passion to become a children's pastor. In fact, this is where I met my wife: at church during an internship. However, we married young. I saw some of the issues my wife had before we were married, but I was so in love and afraid of losing her that I went ahead and married her anyways, reasoning that her immaturity and issues would become fixed in time.

And yet here I am. I have always been an advocate for marriage and swore to myself that I would never divorce. I would, no matter what it took, stand strong and work through whatever challenges would come my way. And I still feel this way. However, my wife does not. I have found myself to be in a situation where we should be equally yoked, but I'm pulling the load and dragging her behind me as well. I know I'm supposed to be strong and lead, but I have no support from her. I mean, this is supposed to be a supportive, collaborative team effort here, but it's all just me.

To put it bluntly, she is more than content staying where she is at in life, which is a place that she's been at for years (she is very immature). She tells me that I should love her for who she is, which I do, but she is making no effort to better herself or our marriage. We have gone to couples counseling and have taken premarital classes, communication classes, etc. In a traditional role reversal, I was the one who dragged her to these things, but she made in known very clearly every chance she got that she didn't want to go and, of course, applied nothing she learned.

So here's where I am stuck. I am tired and weary from being in a marriage where I am so discontent. She does not support any of the things that makes me, me. The only things she supports me in are things that benefit her. IE me working (paycheck), cuddling (she's a big touch person), and unpassionate sex (she wants a kid terribly). Everything else (IE things that interest me, make me happy, speak my love language) she will have nothing to do with. She will not speak my love language, even though she thinks she does. She does not support me in my hobbies or interests (one of the reasons I am no longer a pastor). She has never done anything genuinely selfless, sincere, or heartfelt for me, and this is not an exaggeration. Her insecurities, selfishness, and various issues have always gotten in the way in one fashion or another.

And to add to the problem, she comes from a home where her mother wore the pants in the family and got everything she ever wanted whenever she wanted it. This is the model my wife has for marriage, and thus can't seem to comprehend that I have wants, needs, desires, goals, and ambitions that I would love her to be a part of.

So here I am now, weary and tired of fighting for our marriage. How can a marriage last if one person isn't willing to do anything? I mean, my needs aren't being fulfilled (IE love language, sex, love & support), and whenever I try to bring these things up, she just shuts down and gets on the defensive, and in the end I end up consoling her and making her feel better, but my original issues go on unaddressed. As long as she's happy, that's all that matters. Her view is that if I'm having a problem in the marriage, it's me and I'm the one who needs to change. But I cannot change who I fundamentally am nor altar who God made me to be. She is not willing to make any effort whatsoever on her part to help me, our marriage, nor herself.

Because of all this, I have been in a pretty bad depressed funk for the last year or so. I am now finding myself putting up various walls in order to protect myself from being hurt by her. However, I know that this is unhealthy and detrimental to our marriage, but my heart just cannot take the pain anymore. I don't know what to do. Everyone I try to talk to about where I am at and what I am thinking just tells me, "You used to be a pastor!", and "Be a man!" - obviously very cold, judgmental responses from people who are supposed to be valued friends and family. So to top it all off, I have no one to turn to, either.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rambling. I guess when it comes down to it, my question is how can we win in our marriage when I'm the only one fighting for it? I feel I have no strength left to fight and I don't feel like I can keep living in this lifeless and loveless marriage. Every part of me wants out just to give my heart, mind, and soul a break. My heart and soul are constantly torn because I cannot bring myself to a divorce due to my values, but there's no hope left for our marriage because my wife refuses to pull her weight. I am so numb and weary from this constant struggle that I can't cry even over this anymore. I am that drained from the epic hopelessness.

And, because of this, I know that I cannot think straight. I have just closed down. I used to be a smart, funny, energetic, social person, and now I am the exact opposite. I don't know what to do. I don't even know what I'm looking for here. I would say I'm looking for help making a decision either way, but I've had plenty of chances to go through with a divorce before this and yet I'm still here. So I guess I'm looking for advice on how I can possible make this work. I am this close to just saying screw it and totally walling up my hurts, pains, unfulfilled needs, dreams, and desires and just going on as a hollowed out person, one who lives to cater to the every whim of my wife. I just don't know what else to do.



drifter17 -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 4:51:15 AM)

And another paraphrase: I am sick of being in an unfulfilled marriage where my wife couldn't care less. What do I do when she refuses to change? I can't keep going on like this. Heck, I haven't been able to keep going on for months now, and yet here I am, Lord knows why. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, and/or advice will be worth far more than you could ever know. I just need some unbiased, truthful, and godly insights into my situation. Thanks in advance.



buckifn -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 6:30:39 AM)

Is there an older pastor in your denomination who could counsel you?



stamper_ben -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 9:03:40 AM)

What's that phrase in the vows we take upon getting married...

"For better or for worse, 'till death do us part."

Yes, we can get married too young not fully knowing what it is we are getting into, but that isn't an excuse to use to get out of it. As God's children, many times we will need to put ourselves last in the things we do. This may be one of those times my friend, time to put your interests and desires last while you put your relationship with your wife first. And the best way to do that right now from reading what I've seen is to pray about what it is the two of you want and then to pray some more for His direction on what it is YOU can do to make your marriage all that HE wants.

I've been married going on 31 years now. It has never been easy. It is work, many times lasting for many years it is dirty seemingly fulfilling work where you don't see the "paycheck" for years. Hang in there, give it to Jesus and let him shape your relationship with your wife into something that brings Him glory.



timf -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 9:29:41 AM)

Marital Advice - Help

You both sound pretty selfish. This seems to be more and more the norm. It is rather common to focus on the shortcomings of the other person and let resentment build into a root of bitterness.

In the past the selfishness of adolescence would be mitigated by trying to survive parenthood. The selfishness and dependency of infants often drive out some of the selfishness we would all like to cling to. Because of birth control technology, people are now able to perpetuate their selfishness.

Your pastoral experience, education, and counseling may have led you to think you are the one who is right and you need to divorce because she doesn't recognize how right you are. In reality you pastoral experience, education, and counseling have failed you. The frustration you are experiencing may be more related to the difficulty of trying to live the Christian life in the flesh instead of by the power of the Holy Spirit.

If you were on your knees in prayer humbly asking the Lord for wisdom to be able to lead your wife closer to a living knowledge of Jesus, you might not be experiencing so much frustration. A husband that can lead in a home is not one who prepares a list of instructions to follow like the night manager at McDonalds. Leadership is having the wisdom to recognize what is truly needed. Your wife needs to know that you love her and care for her and that she can trust you to act in her best interest. You might want to lead her by example in showing the selfless love Christians are called to.

Parenthood can start a process of diminishing selfishness just through weariness. However, the preferred method is surrender to Jesus and to be filled by His Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:15
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Christians are called to a life of selfless love with Jesus as our example. Your job as a husband is to lead. This leading is not in a direction that focuses on effects like what things to do and not to do, but on causes such as surrender to Jesus.

Too many Christians and way too many Christian leaders allow themselves to be sidetracked to a life of frustration by trying to be Christians in the flesh (like the Galatians). This is what happened to the Pharisees and why Jesus warned His disciples to beware of this "leaven".

If you cannot find an older wiser Christian man in your denomination who clearly shows the light and love of Jesus in his life, you may want to consider looking outside your denomination. The only thing that will save your marriage is a real and full relationship with Jesus. This is more likely to be learned from someone who already has achieved this. It sounds like you have had enough classes, it may be time to start learning Jesus.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. However, while hearing and learning about Jesus is important, it is faith that is crucial. So much "Christian Education" stops short at the point of hearing, that many fail to learn how to live by faith and build their families on the foundation of a living Savior. Unless the Lord build the house, the laborers labor in vain.



huckfinn327 -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 9:31:43 AM)

Greetings Drifter,

I have been a pastor for 40 years ... I have also been married for 46 years ... in all "kindness" I believe that it is you are are immature.


You should carefully study I Cor. 13 and especially the following verse:

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

May God richly bless "drifter".

Christ loved the Church (His Bride) and gave himself for her.


Huckfinn ... Baptist Pastor



dianetavegia -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 9:38:50 AM)

Yikes! Is it just me, or did you use I and Me a bazillion times in your posts?

Love language....
Unpassionate sex.......
Make me happy......
Interests me.......

Your wife CANNOT make you happy. She is not responsible for your happiness. Happiness is a choice and a state of mind that YOU control. The joy of the LORD is your strength and not something imparted upon you by a mere woman.

Interests you? My husband loves jazz music and sports. I don't like either one. I like flower gardening, reading and crafts. He has no interest in any of those. Why does your wife have to be interested in the same things as you? You are not the most important or influential man in the universe. She does not need to sit all googlie eyed -in awe, while you pursue your hobbies!

Love language..... I don't even know what that is. What I DO know is the Bible tells us in Psalms: How sweet are Your words to my taste, Sweeter than honey to my mouth! There's also a couple hundred verses that talk about negative words and the effect they have on people. [:(]

Unpassionate sex..... You want to solve this problem? Foreplay begins the MINUTE you wake up in the morning. A gentle touch, a kind word, a sweet 'I'll miss you today', a silly gift, a love note left in the laundry room and I DON'T mean a 'can't wait to have sex' note. Sex is not love. Love is not sex.

For the next 30 days, try something. Pretend (in your mind) your wife is perfect. Praise her efforts at cooking, shopping, housework, whatever. Thank her for dinner. Thank her for washing your shirt. Help her whenever you see her starting a chore. Positive words only. Pretend (in your mind) you love her with the greatest love possible. Speak only words of love. Compliment her. Choose to be happy. Act husbandly. Be the scriptural head of the household by asking her to read the Bible with you or pray for a friend. For 30 days live as if you could ask for nothing more. See how SHE responds to this. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Please go back and read your op. It seems a bit self centered to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

An aside: I do not believe God calls a man into the ministry and not call his wife, too. A pastor's wife is a ministry in and of itself.

Jim and I have been married for almost 38 years. I was 19 and he was 23 when we married.



Hislittleone -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 9:58:22 AM)

Great post Diane! I agree.

In addition to Diane's advice, this book/ministry is life changing. http://www.lifepartners.org/store.html
My husband and I have read the book and he's now in counseling (over the phone----we're not in the area) with one of Ken's partners. I'm convinced that if you apply these principles you will see great changes in your wife. I suggest you read the book and counsel with them. It has made such a huge difference in our marriage.

ETA: The book I was referring to was Discovering the Mind of a Woman.



hotsaucygma -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 10:05:48 AM)

The falacy I have found about divorce is that you think it will be "over" and you can move on with your life. The reality I have found is that I will likely never be "over" it, and the issues can just "move along" with you- they don't just disappear. Somehow, the two really do become one- you can amputate or seperate the two halves of the whole, but you will never be the same again. The "scars" will always be there. I know the desperation of living in a bad marriage, and the ups and downs of living on my own again. My suggestion would be that unless there is abuse or some other issues that are far beyond what you have shared so far, stay in your marriage.

You don't have to live a unfulfilled life. You do not have to feel hollow. Fill your life with things you love to do, make time for your friends. If your wife would support you in those desires and interests it would be wonderful, if she does not that does not mean that you can not do them. You were a youth pastor, you can still work with youth even if not as a pastor. You didn't mention other specific interests, but I'm sure there are ways to do many of them. Carve out some time for your interests, with or without your wife, and make sure you have time for your marriage and doing some things that are your wife's interests too. Don't keep score, "I did x number of things for her and she did 0 number of things for me", that is counter productive. You made a choice to get married, honor that choice and her, and the Lord will be honored by it also.

I do understand that you can feel empty when you give and do not recieve any love in return- but you can be filled by the agape love of others. Note that I am not talking about any type of relationship/friendship with other women! I am talking about the love of friends and family, it is not quite the same as the love you would like to, and ideally would, recieve from your wife but it can give you love and purpose anyway. You may also find that as you stop focusing on what your wife is doing or "should" be doing, that she will be able to feel more comfortable sharing herself with you.

My heart goes out to you. You are in a tough spot. Just don't make the mistake of thinking divorce will make it "all better".



Beth67 -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 11:44:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drifter17

(she wants a kid terribly)


'SHE' wants a kid terribly? What about you? Have the two of you even agreed on this? May I sincerely suggest that the two of you not have a child until you are on more solid ground. In my opinion, as long as you are contemplating divorce, it would be better not to bring a child into this relationship.

You are looking to your wife to make you happy. That's the wrong thing to do. She's her own person, just like you are your own person. You both have a Christian foundation and you need to build on that. I suspect that your relationship with God has suffered because of what you are feeling in your marriage. Don't let Satan win. Focus on God, not yourself, and then I suspect all will fall into place.



truthrevealed -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 5:42:56 PM)

Yes, you may be a bit self-centered, and you are young in a new marriage but I certainly understand what it's like to look at a situation and feel hopelessness and despair. I understand what it feels like to want so deperately to do what God desires but being soooo torn that it seems easier to take the "easy???" way out of suffering.

Divorce is NOT an option at this point, stop meditating upon that---it is NOT an option!!!!! any relief that you fantasize you may obtain by divorcing your wife is PURELY a mirage--- clearly and strategically staged by the devil and your flesh.

Maybe it would help if you meditate on this truth. I don't know if it's God's will or call that you continue in pastoring but what you find in your relationship with your wife....you will find in your call(whatever it is). You're simply in training. We want God to use us in mighty ways for His kingdom but despise the process.....which is where you are. As difficult as what you're going THRU is...we as Christians are ALL called to love those who don't love us in return, give to those who may NEVER say thank you, and be looooooooooongsuffering as God is with us. Yes, it's difficult but with His help, and looking at your situation thru the eyes of THIS being your MINISTRY(your relationship with your wife) it"ll encourage you.........know that God is strengthening you, establishing you, revealing things to you about YOURSELF and Himself, developing character in you and preparing you for what He has for you to do.

DON'T GIVE UP NOW......God still has AMAZING things to show you about His resurrection power(which can bring to life any dead situation), His love, His healing and His comfort. Cross over to the other side......BELIEVING IN HIM!!!

God bless



saving-grace -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 7:22:34 PM)

Have you ever noticed that the things that originally attracted us to our spouse are the things that end up causing us the most grief?

quote:

I saw some of the issues my wife had before we were married, but I was so in love and afraid of losing her that I went ahead and married her anyways, reasoning that her immaturity and issues would become fixed in time.


Having just walked the path you seem to be on, let me start by saying this…Nothing is impossible with God. Pray Pray Pray. Pray for God’s guidance – For Him to work these issues out – that when you get to the other side of this valley you can look back and be more grounded and stable in Him and in each other. I had to start by asking God to sincerely search my heart and deal with any issues in me before He dealt with my spouse.

I felt God asking me some very tough questions and He demanded me to be honest.

Am I in any way responsible for any of the negative developments in my marriage?

I was getting so good at critiquing my spouse. I could pinpoint every little thing that was done that offended me, that hurt my feelings, or that I thought went against what God had called my spouse to do or be. I had a critical spirit that had let bitterness and disrespect pollute my thinking. I had such tunnel vision that I failed to look at myself honestly and let the Holy Spirit confront me on issues that were in my own life.

Do I respect my spouse?

God has called YOU to do YOUR part, not force your spouse to do their part as well. He told me: IT IS MY JOB TO LOVE MY SPOUSE; IT IS GOD’S JOB TO CHANGE MY SPOUSE. I can’t change them; it is not even my role to try.

We are called to accept our spouse just as they are (we know God loves us too much to leave us the way we are – we are in a constant state of change). We are called to unselfishly nourish our partner in such as way that they may become the person God intended them to be. Respect calls us to recognize the difference between the ideal and the real, and not demand too much (even what we feel we deserve).

Do I have a genuine commitment to my spouse?

Have I taken my vows seriously? It’s easy to say for richer and for poorer when you are in the black. It’s easy to say in sickness and in health when you both have a clean bill of health. It’s easy to say in good times and in bad because at the time you made the vows chances were pretty high that those were “good times”. I made a commitment not only to my spouse but to God Himself.

Do I give my time and effort to my spouse?

Love has to be given the opportunity to mature. God’s Word sets the tone for this: When the going gets rough, a couple doesn’t just “fall out of love”. Love is a choice – it’s not a feeling. We can’t just chalk it up to being martyrs of a “bad bargain”, but we are “heirs together of the grace of life” (1 Peter 3:7)

Let me encourage you and it sometimes is not the easiest road – walk the walk of love. Love her as Christ loves the church – sacrificially love her (even if you feel she doesn’t deserve it or that she is not worthy of it) – live your life as God has called you to live it – God rewards the faithful. You be faithful to Him in your calling as a godly husband and let Him work out the details.

Praying for you!



csl7037 -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 7:44:52 PM)

You've already gotten some great advice from people much wiser and further along than me but I want to chime in here with something. God doesn't call you to change or fix her. He calls you to be a godly husband and that's it.

I went through a phase, probably at about the same point in my marriage that you're at now, where I prayed and prayed for God to change this and that about dh. I got so frustrated because His answer was always something about me. I remember thinking, this isn't about ME, it's about HIM! But God didn't want to hear about him, he wanted to work on the kind of wife I was and the kind of wife He'd called me to be. I fought this for a long time. And I wonder how much of your frustration is you fighting some of the same stuff.

My philosophy of marriage, for what it's worth....when one spouse truly focuses on God and works at becoming the husband or wife God expects them to be - even if this is done solely out of obedience to God and not out of love, respect, or submission to the marriage in any way (in the beginning), God changes the heart of the spouse who is in His will. He brings peace, contentment, and joy like only HE can - like even the most perfect spouse never could. Then, the other spouse, is forced to respond - one way or another. Living with someone walking in God's will, living with a godly wife or husband, will force the other spouse to either turn their heart to the Lord and to the marriage anew or to harden their heart completely. One of those things has to happen. The thing is, whichever way the husband or wife choses to respond, out of their free will, is between them and God ultimately. Because God will work whatever happens to the good of the spouse who's in His will...so His peace covers the future of the marriage even if, by the other spouses rebellion, the future is not good.

IMO, unless and until a person has truly submitted their heart and their marriage to God in this way, a Christian cannot rationalize or justify walking away from a marriage. A husband or wife who is submitted to the Lord, will be blameless if the other spouse remains unswayed. When we are caught up in "I need", "I want", "She/he's not", or "She/he wont" ...we're not walking in the Spirit or living with a godly attitude ourselves so God simply cannot move in the marriage.

I had to come to the realization, my marriage isn't about what I want or what I need, it's about what God's called me to be in the marriage and in this home. And unless I'm doing what I know to do, I can't complain or whine to God about what he's doing or not doing.

If I had to guess, I think it's been maybe five years since I had this "a-ha" moment. We will celebrate our 12th anniversary next week. My advice can't carry the weight of someone married 30 or 40 years but I thank God He got this principle through my thick head without it taking that long or before I did something stupid and messed up what He had for me. We're not perfect by any stretch. But it's liberating to know that I'm not responsible for making us perfect. I'm only responsible for making the effort that I'm called to make on this side! And I can tell you that the changes in my dh that the Lord has brought about since I finally stopped trying to tell Him what needed to be changed, are far and away better than the petty stuff I was asking Him to do anyway!



NotDoneYet -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/29/2008 8:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drifter17

Greetings.

Let me begin by just saying that I am very weary and ashamed of where I am at because I was once a pastor and I am wrestling with the idea of divorce.

I am male, 24, and have been married for less than 3 years. My wife is 23. We have no kids.

Oh where to begin. I have always been a 'good guy.' I love the Lord and followed my passion to become a children's pastor. In fact, this is where I met my wife: at church during an internship. However, we married young. I saw some of the issues my wife had before we were married, but I was so in love and afraid of losing her that I went ahead and married her anyways, reasoning that her immaturity and issues would become fixed in time.

**So you went through with a marriage knowing full good and well that your then wife-to-be had some "issues"...ahhh..."love" is blind***

And yet here I am. I have always been an advocate for marriage and swore to myself that I would never divorce. I would, no matter what it took, stand strong and work through whatever challenges would come my way. And I still feel this way. However, my wife does not. I have found myself to be in a situation where we should be equally yoked, but I'm pulling the load and dragging her behind me as well. I know I'm supposed to be strong and lead, but I have no support from her. I mean, this is supposed to be a supportive, collaborative team effort here, but it's all just me.

**Are you leading or are you a tyrant?**

To put it bluntly, she is more than content staying where she is at in life, which is a place that she's been at for years (she is very immature). She tells me that I should love her for who she is, which I do, but she is making no effort to better herself or our marriage. We have gone to couples counseling and have taken premarital classes, communication classes, etc. In a traditional role reversal, I was the one who dragged her to these things, but she made in known very clearly every chance she got that she didn't want to go and, of course, applied nothing she learned.

**So, she's not interested in "improving" herself...were you aware of this before the marriage? Sometimes one party is more ambitious than the other. Did you use these classes to prove how "wonderful" or how "right" you were?**

So here's where I am stuck. I am tired and weary from being in a marriage where I am so discontent. She does not support any of the things that makes me, me. The only things she supports me in are things that benefit her. IE me working (paycheck), cuddling (she's a big touch person), and unpassionate sex (she wants a kid terribly). Everything else (IE things that interest me, make me happy, speak my love language) she will have nothing to do with. She will not speak my love language, even though she thinks she does. She does not support me in my hobbies or interests (one of the reasons I am no longer a pastor). She has never done anything genuinely selfless, sincere, or heartfelt for me, and this is not an exaggeration. Her insecurities, selfishness, and various issues have always gotten in the way in one fashion or another.

**Lot of "I" and "me" here...re-read Ephesians 5 and 6...especially the part that starts 'husbands love your wives...' What's this "love language" rubbish? Why does she have to "support" you in your hobbies and interests? Do you support hers? Couples can have WILDLY divergent interests and STILL manage to make a marriage work (I speak from experience here)**

And to add to the problem, she comes from a home where her mother wore the pants in the family and got everything she ever wanted whenever she wanted it. This is the model my wife has for marriage, and thus can't seem to comprehend that I have wants, needs, desires, goals, and ambitions that I would love her to be a part of.

**So she was an indulged child...you knew this. She grew up in a home where the dad was passive...so what do you expect?**

So here I am now, weary and tired of fighting for our marriage. How can a marriage last if one person isn't willing to do anything? I mean, my needs aren't being fulfilled (IE love language, sex, love & support), and whenever I try to bring these things up, she just shuts down and gets on the defensive, and in the end I end up consoling her and making her feel better, but my original issues go on unaddressed. As long as she's happy, that's all that matters. Her view is that if I'm having a problem in the marriage, it's me and I'm the one who needs to change. But I cannot change who I fundamentally am nor altar who God made me to be. She is not willing to make any effort whatsoever on her part to help me, our marriage, nor herself.

**Maybe she is exactly where she wants to be in life. And what's this about "my needs"? Marriage is NOT the end all and be all of fulfillment...really, it isn't. Maybe you DO need to change you...**

Because of all this, I have been in a pretty bad depressed funk for the last year or so. I am now finding myself putting up various walls in order to protect myself from being hurt by her. However, I know that this is unhealthy and detrimental to our marriage, but my heart just cannot take the pain anymore. I don't know what to do. Everyone I try to talk to about where I am at and what I am thinking just tells me, "You used to be a pastor!", and "Be a man!" - obviously very cold, judgmental responses from people who are supposed to be valued friends and family. So to top it all off, I have no one to turn to, either.

**What pain? The pain of not getting what YOU want? Time to grow up and check the fairness clause in your life contract.**

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rambling. I guess when it comes down to it, my question is how can we win in our marriage when I'm the only one fighting for it? I feel I have no strength left to fight and I don't feel like I can keep living in this lifeless and loveless marriage. Every part of me wants out just to give my heart, mind, and soul a break. My heart and soul are constantly torn because I cannot bring myself to a divorce due to my values, but there's no hope left for our marriage because my wife refuses to pull her weight. I am so numb and weary from this constant struggle that I can't cry even over this anymore. I am that drained from the epic hopelessness.

**Sounds sort of melodramatic to me...**

And, because of this, I know that I cannot think straight. I have just closed down. I used to be a smart, funny, energetic, social person, and now I am the exact opposite. I don't know what to do. I don't even know what I'm looking for here. I would say I'm looking for help making a decision either way, but I've had plenty of chances to go through with a divorce before this and yet I'm still here. So I guess I'm looking for advice on how I can possible make this work. I am this close to just saying screw it and totally walling up my hurts, pains, unfulfilled needs, dreams, and desires and just going on as a hollowed out person, one who lives to cater to the every whim of my wife. I just don't know what else to do.


I think what you need here is a reality check. You knew she was immature when you married her, hoping she would "change". Now, 3 years later you're realizing that it isn't gonna happen. I think you need to take a look at the man in the mirror and realize that YOU can only change yourself...and your tone of "I" and "me" leads me to believe that you are still locked into a certain selfishness also.

I wish you much luck.

NDY



LaVidaBonita -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 12:31:32 AM)

I must say that I agree with Diane. A thirty day challenge may help you veiw your wife in a more positive light that will enable you to remember why you fell in love with her in the first place. For thirty days only say postive things about your wife, thank the Lord for the gift that He gave you in your wife, and pray for her well being.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 12:55:38 PM)

First let me say, as a woman, if I had a chance to speak to your wife, I would be all over her. She *should* be loving you, interested in you, fulfilling your needs, etc. Woman to woman, she'd get an earful from me. [;)]

However, as harsh as you may find some of the advice above, I believe the previous posters are right on. You are a servant of God. Your life is not your own. Your happiness is not dependent on your wife. *You* get right with God. *You* learn the art of contentment. *You* do what you know is right, no matter what she does or doesn't do.

quote:

I am sick of being in an unfulfilled marriage where my wife couldn't care less. What do I do when she refuses to change?


You persevere. You do the right thing. You honor God. You find your fulfillment in Him. You treat your wife with love, kindness and understanding consistently.

Y'all are very young. You both have maturing to do. If you dedicate your life to the service of God and find your fulfillment and happiness in Him, she may even realize you have something she wants, and come alongside you.



laura... -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 1:12:37 PM)

quote:

I am sick of being in an unfulfilled marriage where my wife couldn't care less. What do I do when she refuses to change?


quote:

Her view is that if I'm having a problem in the marriage, it's me and I'm the one who needs to change. But I cannot change who I fundamentally am nor altar who God made me to be.


Who's not willing to change? Sounds like two peas in a pod to me.



csl7037 -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 1:18:16 PM)

Did we lose the OP?



Auben -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 1:43:56 PM)

I do not live your life or know your wife. However, I do know from your post that you have pinned too much on her as a person. She should not be the person who completely fulfills you and makes the rest of your life possible. That is a romantic notion. She should be a help but she should not be the reason for everything you do. You should be able to function without her help and encouragement.

No other person can stop you from doing your hobbies or following your interests by not encouraging you.

No person can stop you from feeling loved by not loving you.

No person can make you change jobs or feel despair.

It is your own expectations that cause those things. You control those things inside of you.

You are right, you can't change her. You can pray for her and God can change her (possibly). All you can do is get some counseling for your issues and learn to be more person-independent and God-dependent. There are literally thousands of people in your situation (and worse) who remain faithful and lead healthy, loving, mature lives.

Counseling would probably help you with these issues and help you to be more independent until your wife matures or faces the conviction of the Holy Spirit on her own. Until then, I agree with the poster above, do not have a child together. It will only complicate the issues further.

I can't help but wonder how lonely your wife is as well. Sometimes desperately wanting a child can be searching for someone who completely loves and accepts you.

I don't think I need to mention that bartering for a baby (do this or I won't) is a bad idea or making the decision to wait her fault (you're unreasonable so I won't). Both of those will cause more anger in the marriage.



jaimestarcross -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 2:52:01 PM)

The thing I'm wondering is --- is she a Christian?
Not someone who attends church - does she have a sincere testimony about her
salvation and Christ being Lord in her life?
Ask yourself this question - Do I have a sincere testimony about my salvation and is Christ still Lord in my life?

*It's true, immaturity and issues can be fixed/resolved in time... you must remember, time can involve many years or decades.



sudden -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (7/30/2008 4:42:18 PM)

Dear Drifter:

You've been given some excellent advice - I hope you try to put it into practice. You sound very down and you have described changes within yourself that you are not pleased with. I am sorry that is the case.

Not meaning to be disrespectful but I find it difficult to think that one person could cause such severe changes in you. Perhaps there are other factors at play? Could it be that there is something more to these changes/depression than the things your wife is or isn't doing that you find irksome? Your depression may have physical roots. I hope you will see a doctor and that your funk will pass. A year is a very long time to be depressed.

It sounds as if you have lost hope. Hope comes and goes and marriage, at least for some, goes in undulations with several months or years going well and then several months or years not going so well. Many folks who have been married for many years will tell you that if you can hang in there through the tough stuff there ARE better times ahead...and then not so good times again...etc. Don't give up!

Sudden



drifter17 -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (8/4/2008 8:45:21 PM)

I'm still here.

Forgive me of my absence.

Thanks to everyone who has taken time to look into my situation and give advice.

My original post was writ late at night after an argument with my wife, and I was a bit heated. Re-reading over it, I can see many things that I would've re-worded to more accurately describe where my heart is at. And on top of that, I was trying to throw every problem I could think of in there without giving anything much substance, history, or detail behind it, and it got confusing.

Let me see if I can do a little better job this time around.

When we first got married, I was already working at the church. Before we were married, I asked her specifically if she was ready to start a life of sacrifice - a life of ministry. To follow wherever the Lord would lead and to do whatever it takes to fulfill his ministry. Late nights, long weekends, etc etc etc. She said she understood and that she had the same calling as I, and that this would not be a problem.

Then we got married. Rather quickly, she began sharing with me her distaste with my schedule, and that I had to be at every service, every weekend. Now, I assure you that I was not neglecting her. I was always home as soon as I could be and spent every moment I could with her. I worked Tue-Fri, 9-5, the on Sat from 3-7:30 and Sun from 8-1, Mondays off. Not the most perfect schedule, but generous for full time ministry. However, her only complaint wasn't with my schedule, but also with my pay (which was rather low - which anyone who ever has worked in ministry can relate with, I'm sure). I slowly began to see my wife, my lover, my helpmate, my everything, distance herself from me and break the promises she made to me. There was no reasoning with her; no way to compromise. The only way she would be happy was if I left the ministry and got 'a real job' and started making her money so that she wouldn't have to work and could be a stay-at-home-mom. Eventually, she stopped helping me in my ministry altogether and stopped going to church. She literally told me that I had to either choose her or the church. Now what exactly is a young man supposed to do in that situation?

I sought out a ton of help and guidance from my pastors, and in the end I chose to follow what I knew God had tasked me to do, what both my wife and I agreed to do, albeit I was now doing it solo. Many of these pastors/mentors asked to meet with both me and my wife, but she always refused to go. This was really the starting point of my depression, torn between the path I knew God wanted me to walk and the choices my wife demanded that I make. Not to mention how embarrassing it was, being the fun, young, new pastor with a wife who didn't support his ministry. I eventually received pressure from a few pastors higher up in the chain at the church to fix the problem. I completely understand their position, too. How can a man manage a ministry when he can't even manage his own home? Besides, what message was it sending to the parents of the children I was teaching? But how was I supposed to just 'fix' this when my wife literally refused reason? I listened to every bit of advice I could find and sought out knowledge, wisdom, and prayer from many pastors, friends and family. How defeating it was to be trying everything in my power to do what was right, only to have every effort to be in vain because of my wife's hard heart.

I hope now you can start to catch a glimpse into the hopelessness I've been living in for so long.

Now I have always wanted to have a strong marriage, ever since I was a kid. It has always been very important to me, and it still is. But when I then married someone who began making more demands than compromises, it cut me deeply. I was always the one who swore that I'd never divorce; that I'd do whatever it takes to see that this doesn't happen. I know now how naive that thinking was, but I still strongly desire this. And then to be married to someone who refuses to work on herself or our marriage is.... maddening to say the least. So yes, the concept of divorce has been choking my heart for sometime, but I really and truly do not want this. At the end of my last post, I attempted to communicate this. My flesh is wanting to end it just to get away from the pain and the hurt and the constant reminder of failure (which is how I see myself), but whatever strength left in my heart and soul urges me to stay the course. This is why I'm here. Trust me when I say that I did not come to a Christian Marriage forum looking for sympathy and encouragement for a divorce, lol. I want to win. I want to win so badly. But I cannot do it on my own; this has been a one-person show for too long.

It feels like I am carrying the weight of our relationship, which we are supposed to carry together (hence, equally yoked), as well as dragging her. I don't know how to win at our marriage when my wife refuses to help out. This is what I came here seeking wisdom for: to hopefully learn how to create an environment for my wife that would promote growth, maturation, and change, while at the same time not going crazy due to the lengthy hopelessness of my situation.

It is hard to say a lot of this, solely because of how tired I am. And I am sorry for not directly quoting, but to whoever mentioned the 30 days idea of being the perfect husband and seeing the change, I've tried this 3 times already. Each time with close accountability by pastors and mentors I respect, and still no change.

I know for a fact that she has several haunting issues from the past. Baggage, if you will, that was brought into this relationship, yet she refuses to deal with them. The most notable are various trust and self-esteem issues. She has even admitted to these, and they have been expressly addressed by our marriage counselor. Also, she comes from a family where her mother wears the pants in their family, where her every whim is catered to (this is not an exaggeration). Before we got married, we spoke about all of these things and she gave me her word that she knew this was not God's model for marriage, nor the way she wants our family to be run. Yet here we are.

I know I am not perfect. In fact, I have become quite bitter, cold, resentful, and pessimistic. I am not proud of any of these things. Yet I am so numb with depression that I feel like I don't have the strength to combat these things within my own soul. Just trying to find the motivation to do so is a daunting task when I look upon all the issues in our marriage and the hopelessness I feel in regards to it. I guess I feel like I tried my all, over and over again, and have given my wife chance after chance to grow up and change. I laid the red carpet out for her and still nothing. I wish I could say that I am as strong of a person as I was when I first got married and that my resolve to succeed at marriage is ever vigil. I wish I could be this. But I'm not, and it serves no purpose to pretend that I'm not. So believe me, I know. So to anyone who wants to come in and simply tell me that I should be this and that and so on, you're not helping. I know I should be all these things. Easier said than done. Heck, if everyone was able to be who they knew they should be and acted how they knew they should act, the world would be a far different place. So please don't judge me; after all, I am here seeking honest help. I believe that is the most important thing I can do with where I am at right now.

So to be even more transparent, I have found my thinking and logic to be, "I'm not going to change until I see you change". I suppose I am thinking this because I feel I can better myself at any time, and have even shown proof of this, yet she has shown none. Once again, believe me when I KNOW how stupid, selfish, and damaging this attitude is. I am in no way justifying it or defending myself. I am trying to be as transparent as I can be. Because I seriously don't see the point in fighting, even for myself anymore, amidst the hurt, pain, and hopelessness I live in every day. I just don't know what to do. I feel like only a shell of who I used to be.

And in regards to my statement earlier when I mentioned that my wife wants children. I want children too. Very badly. However, I would like nothing more than to fix our issues BEFORE we bring a child into the world, which is something that we have been counseled to do as well. The reason why I mentioned it in my first post is because my wife's family has a history of getting married YOUNG (IE 16, 17, 18) and getting pregnant within the first year of marriage. My wife was already the 'black sheep' because she got married at age 20, but even more-so because we didn't get pregnant right away. Since we've been married, her little sister got married (2 weeks after graduating high school), and got pregnant right away. My wife got very jealous and wants even more-so to have kids. It has gotten to the point where I honestly feel that her desire to have kids is stronger than her love for me.

Which gets me to the heart of my pain. It seems as if my life loves me for the fact that I am a man, not for who I am. Let me explain. She loves that I am now working at a grocery store making a lot of money, and that I have the capability of making her pregnant. Yet anything that makes me, me (IE pastoral calling, hobbies, likes, dreams, goals, desires, etc), she wants nothing to do with. There's no support or encouragement for anything that makes me tick, which is very defeating to not have the support of my spouse (I'm sure anyone who has ever felt like this can relate).

I suppose this is more than enough for now. Thanks once again to everyone who takes the time to read this and offer advice and support. I have read every reply and will continue to read every word in this thread. I guess I just need some encouragement and prayer to get back up on my emotional feet, so that I can go and give my all to my marriage once again.

- Drifter



pbaribeault -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (8/4/2008 9:51:58 PM)

At the beginning, with the Church job, you say you were not neglecting her. She expressed unmet needs, but you felt that you had already divided up your time in a fair manner, and that she was unreasonable in desiring more of you. In fact, in this situation, you were neglecting her. Her needs were greater than you anticipated, and greater than she led you to believe, but they were there and you neglected them.

What should a young man do? He should take care of his household before ministry. Always. Whatever it takes. A young man in that position should step down. Immediately. And try for intensive damage control before things got worse.

Marriage is not a contract wit terms. Whether she misrepresented her willingness, was caught in wishful thinking, was the victim of spiritual warfare, or something changed circumstantially... You were obligated to be the husband of your marriage covenant, the marriage to her, the person she was at that moment, the person she is now -- with no reference to the kind of person she had told you she was going to be.

You were trying in vain because you refused to release from your life the thing that was wounding her continually. You added further injury by blaming her for not being able to reasonably tolerate, befriend and listen to the advice of her 'rival' for your affections.

Making more compromises than you would like is just one of those 'for worse' things. I guarantee you that you'd have had to make just as many compromises if your wife had, for example, come down with Multiple Sclerosis. This difference is that 'that' wouldn't have been her fault. In your case you just don't think she deserves your efforts. It's not about her deserving it. It's about you loving, honouring, cherishing an undeserving woman. It's called grace. It's hard. But it's the only right answer.

You can be married to her without her ever changing. And you can be satisfied with that if you would abandon all your pipe dreams that involve a different woman (not a real other woman, but your wife suddenly transformed into someone she is not and can not be). She does not have to work on herself or her marriage. All she has to do is live with you and try not to be crushed by your constant drive for a dream home with a dream wife in a dream world.

Simply live with her, and love her, and let her be! All you have to do is spend 3 to 5 hours each evening smiling and being friendly, then go to bed and share your bed space. That will keep you married. There is no need for your "one person show" and the frustration it brings you.

While you are at letting her be, let yourself be, too. Your fear of failure as a husband is the root cause of this entire mess. You're OK. Really. You don't need your goals, your working on things, your striving and dissatisfaction.

You are not going to see any 'improvement' in your wife until she feel safe... which I'm going to estimate at about a decade. Just try to be OK with who she is until then. Stop trying to drag her along to get anywhere. Where you are is OK for a while as long as she is there with you. Get cozy and wait it out. That's called hope.



buckifn -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (8/4/2008 10:50:45 PM)

quote:

I saw some of the issues my wife had before we were married, but I was so in love and afraid of losing her that I went ahead and married her anyways, reasoning that her immaturity and issues would become fixed in time.


You saw the handwriting on the wall and married her anyhow, so imo it is your responsibility to stick with the marriage.

The only thing I know to suggest is begin a prayer time as a couple every single day, at least once a day and possibly more. Make sure you both take turns praying out loud for each other and for your marriage. Make sure your wife hears you thanking God for allowing the two of you to be together and ask the Holy Spirit to make you both become one in the spirit.

Develop an attitude that marriage is giving 100% everyday. Say that out loud in your prayertime..ask for God to help you both learn how to give 100%.

I also think your wife needs to hear you ask for forgiveness in areas where she feels you fail her. Whether you feel you are or not sometimes women need to hear us speak certain things .


Imo it's part of our responsiblility to love our wife in the way she needs to be loved. It doesn't make me a weaker person to give in because of love. I am not talking about giving in to things that are sinful, but giving in to meet the emotional and spiritual need of our spouse.

Do you feel that you can do that and do you pray with her daily about these things?

Another thing that helps some couples is to journal together..have you ever done something like that?



pbaribeault -> RE: Marital Advice - Help (8/4/2008 10:58:43 PM)

I wouldn't try to involve her in couples' activities just now, but it would be smart of you to do some open out-loud praying regularly, where she will be likely to her you and maybe be encouraged. What about good old-fashioned kneeling beside the bed nightly?

Just give your 100% and pray from that perspective. Let her mind her own percentages.



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