RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat- Richard Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 10:55:11 AM
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rabanes
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quote:
I don't think you are in any way improving your reputation through your posts here.
Others have said the very opposite, interestingly, and are glad that finally the issues/people in this incident are being discussed/exposed.
It is time for those who call themselves online apologists/discerners to be held accountable for their actions. We are accountable to each other. But double-standards and hypocrisy are starting to rule the hearts of too many "Christians" -- instead of biblical integrity, truth, humility, honesty, clear thinking, love of justice, purity, obedience, and love.
RAbanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 11:52:43 AM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
quote:
Forgiveness is important, and as we forgive, so shall we be forgiven.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with filing a complaint. Can a Christian forgive someone who has stolen from them? Sure. Does that mean that same thief is not arrested, tried, and convicted? No. Can a Christian forgive a waitress or grocery store stock boy for being terribly rude? Yes. Does that mean the Christian does not go and speak to that the manager/supervisor of that waitress or stock boy? No. I have forgiven Silva, long ago, that is not even the issue. TRUTH is the issue here. Accountability is the issue here. Proper conduct publicly and privately is the issue here.
RAbanes
See, who made you one to make anyone accountable. Why do you go after a matter after three years? I read the article. I wouldn't have, if it hadn't been for this whole action. This matter as escalated into a big mess because of BOTH of your actions. You say Pastor Silvia is the first to take things public, he says you are. You took your posts down. You ask why do so many people care. You BOTH brought the matter public. You both reflect on the church as a whole.
Let me ask you this, Mr. Abanes. How are you pouring coals on your enemies heads? And this is not a matter of sending the legal threat to the ISP, and that is what your letter was. All I see here is a big conflict. You say you have forgiven Pastor Silva, perhaps that is true, but right now the fruit shown is of anger and conflict. One of you has to stop. It takes 2 to make a conflict.
I find much distaste to those that in the name of discernment and apologetics engage in attacking others, regardless of whether what they say is true. I find such attacks to be works of the flesh whereas the weapons of our warfare are not caranal.
Mr. Abanes, let me ask you this, are you praying for Pastor Silva. Not just a convince him of how he is wrong or praying for him to repent, but praying for God's good in his life.
As I said this grieves me, and it is said to see both individuals justifying themselves.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 11:55:13 AM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
quote:
I don't think you are in any way improving your reputation through your posts here.
Others have said the very opposite, interestingly, and are glad that finally the issues/people in this incident are being discussed/exposed.
It is time for those who call themselves online apologists/discerners to be held accountable for their actions. We are accountable to each other. But double-standards and hypocrisy are starting to rule the hearts of too many "Christians" -- instead of biblical integrity, truth, humility, honesty, clear thinking, love of justice, purity, obedience, and love.
RAbanes
ANd you know what getting into arguements, engaging in the same behaviors that they exhibit does nothing for accountability. We all need to start with examining ourselves. We need to take the log out of our own eye before getting all worried about specks in others. And ultimately, Mr. Abanes, we all will hold account for our actions. Our deeds done in flesh with burn and not stand the test of fire.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:07:27 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2009
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me, post 50:
quote:
Unfortunately, Richard...and I know you're not at a point to see this...but in a number of ways, your actions in this situation appear to be yet another example of how not to handle public criticism. That does not mean that your views were in the wrong. It is your actions that I am speaking of.
And...also unfortunately...I don't think you are in any way improving your reputation through your posts here.
And then Richard responds,
quote:
Others have said the very opposite, interestingly, and are glad that finally the issues/people in this incident are being discussed/exposed.
Others? What others? Since I was specifically referring to your posts here...well, maybe folks are PM'ing you in great droves supporting your actions. But a review of the thread should make it clear to readers that folks who have been participating in the thread are NOT supporting your actions...in fact, there has been no one in the thread who has really agreed with your actions!
...going back to the beginning with Prophet's original post. I doubt Prophet would have started this thread, or quoted the article, as a means of supporting your actions.
Mr. Fribbles then responds that it seems a little frightening but he doesn't know the context. Soxfan, in post 5, wonders if Saddleback was involved as well as you.
Then you come into the thread and claim that there's misinformation being spread around.
Peacebringer, post 14:
quote:
It is really unfortunate that a conflict such as this got to the internet and became public for the whole world. It is sad and detracts from other things that God may have us do. It is real easy for any one of us to get distracted. It is really easy for any of us to get defensive when under attack."
Peacebringer, post 17:
quote:
...I hate the public conflict that is going on and wish there would be some moving toward forgiveness and ultimatley reconciliation..."
me, post 18, giving my view that utilizing terms like "defamation" and "'libel" in an email to an ISP regarding a customer's site content insinuates that legal action is being considered. And I also relate that I have seen several examples of self-proclaimed Christians in the public arena attempting to silence critics through intimidation methods and sometimes even attempted legal action. I also wondered if there may have been another method of handling a critc along the lines of how Jesus and Paul typically responded.
Earthless responds that those are excellent points (unless I misunderstood and Earthless wasn't proclaiming my points as excellent!)
Solarflare, post 21: (in refrence to the following from you "Ken Silva was the one who screamed like a banshee on the Internet about it..."):
quote:
Personally, it's stuff like this I have a problem with. I have read your posts, Silva's posts - your letter, his responses - no where does he address you in this manner.
Screamed like a banshee? There is something very wrong here. An awful lot of hostility from one Christian to another comes across - I'm not the one in public forum, you are, so, don't be surprised by public opinion.
Jayvance, post 33:
quote:
Richard, here's my opinion, for whatever it's worth. I definitely think Silva was wrong to make this issue public, and I also think he overreacted. But I think you were unwise to make an issue of it in the first place..."
You post that you consider the situation to be about bigger issues.
quote:
The situation has much more to do with accountability, responsibility, the proper mode of apologetics/discernment, our conduct as Christians...."
and
quote:
Too many so-called Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs) have been allowed to run rampant..."
Mushhead, post 35
quote:
I too have had serious problems with Apprising Ministries....
but adds,
quote:
That said, I must agree with "jayvance" that your actions betray your true intentions for filing the complaint.
Solorflare, post 39:
quote:
Ditto Mushhead and Jayvance. I read the email you sent to the ISP - you also threatened them - not just Silva, with legal action. And now, you don't like the repercussions. Next time, try doing things in an honorable way. Christians are not supposed to turn to legal recourse as there first 'line of defense'. It does not look pretty trying to make everyone look at Silva now and say "Oh but look what he is doing."
Personally, I think you should stop, now......before you need professional damage control.
peacebringer, post 43:
quote:
Seems to me a lot of anger for something that really shouldn't have gone to this proportion.
Earthless, post 46:
quote:
If I did this to every single person that has and continues to speak evil about my character on the Internet... to every single person that has literally stated death threats against my family and me..
If we can't handle such things then we might want to rethink having a public life in that he is also an author.
So, the rest of you, am I misreading the thread here, or has just about everyone (other than Mr. Abanes) participating in the thread expressed that they do not agree with Mr. Abanes' actions?
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:11:43 PM
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earthless
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I do not agree with it.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:12:10 PM
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peacebringer
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nice summary SOG, and let me point out, things I say I would say to Pastor Silva if he was posting here. At least Mr. Abanes has made himself available.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:15:22 PM
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stateofgrace
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That's a good point as well, Peacebringer. Over in the marriage threads, it is often commented that we really can only address the spouse who is posting, not the one who isn't participating in the thread!
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:21:15 PM
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rabanes
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peace: who made you one to make anyone accountable.
RA: My friend, we are all accountable to each other......
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peace: You say Pastor Silvia is the first to take things public, he says you are.
RA: Writing a private email, to a private ISP, who sent a private email to Silva, is keeping it private. Ken Silva announced by private email to the world via the Internet. Who made it a public spectacle? That is not a difficult or unclear question.
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peace: You BOTH brought the matter public.
RA: See above. I PRIVATELY brought the matter to a PRIVATE ISP behind PRIVATE doors. Please, the only way we can untangle the mess is to stick with the truth/facts.
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peace: One of you has to stop. It takes 2 to make a conflict.
RA: This is very true. My posts now are a a trickle. And I am slowly moving on.....I was hoping to see some repentance.
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peace: Mr. Abanes, let me ask you this, are you praying for Pastor Silva. Not just a convince him of how he is wrong or praying for him to repent, but praying for God's good in his life.
RA: I am praying daily about him and the situation, both at night, as I fall asleep, and in the morning, as I read my Psalm devotional.
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peace: justifying themselves.
RA: This is not about me justifying myself. This is about having taken appropriate action, within the bounds of scripture, and someone else responding in a way that brought the entire church/world into a private matter. It's unfortunate, but that's what happened.
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peace: We all need to start with examining ourselves. We need to take the log out of our own eye before getting all worried about specks in others. And ultimately, Mr. Abanes, we all will hold account for our actions. Our deeds done in flesh with burn and not stand the test of fire.
RA: Indeed, my bro. I agree with you 100%. And know that I am VERY sorry this has cause you and others grief. That was never my intention, and indeed, no grief would have ever been caused if the dispute would have remained behind closed doors -- where it belonged. Regardless of who was wrong or right! Even if I was totally wrong in alerting Silva's ISP, there was no reason AT ALL for the the whole world and church to be dragged into it. That is something I have NEVER done -- and believe me, being in full-time ministry for 15 + years, I have had plenty of opportunities to take plenty of things to the church. But I have always adhered to faithfully to Matthew 15 when something was done in PRIVATE against me.
R. Abanes
Pop Culture Mix Website http://abanes.com/
Pop Culture Blog http://richardabanes.wordpress.com/
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:24:49 PM
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rabanes
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state: Others? What others?
RA: Others at other blogs/thread, etc., as well is in private mails. Not "others," as in here at this one forum. Sorry for teh confusion in my wording.
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states: So, the rest of you, am I misreading the thread here, or has just about everyone (other than Mr. Abanes) participating in the thread expressed that they do not agree with Mr. Abanes' actions?
RA: No need to quote everyone. You could have just asked: "Others? What others?"
ra
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:32:33 PM
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peacebringer
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Mr. Abanes, on point of clarification. You indicate that the matter was all private, yet Mr. Silva refers to in the offensive letter as to you starting a public attack. You took that information done, I am sure some how, someone could find the cache, but this is what is being publically stated. We have no way of determining the truth here. It is clear to you, as an offended party in a dispute.
Again, when attack by others, what should be our response to our enemies biblically?
And it is good to hear you are praying daily for pastor Silva. It is real easy for all of us to get wrapped up in protecting our own kingdom, or serving the kingdom of God in our own way, or at least convincing ourselves that what we are doing is about God, when it is about ourselves. I pray the Holy Spirit to work in the lives of both these men.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:46:10 PM
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solarflare
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Mr Rabanes........what part of WE THINK YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE US OTHERWISE do you not understand?
That alone, should make you think twice as you just stated that we are all accountable to one another.
Do I think you will 'get' what is being said, by every other poster here but you? No sir, I do not. Sadly. 
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:55:14 PM
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rabanes
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Peace,
I appreciate your willingness to continue discussing with me, and your asking me questions. The root of this began back in 2005 when I released a book about Rick Warren. This is where it REALLY started.
You have to understand that before 2005, these people had no problems with me at all. In fact, they carried my apologetic/discernment books dealing with all kinds of issues: New Age, Harry Potter, Mormonism, near Death Experiences, false religions, cults, the occult, etc.
But then I wrote a book, Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him (using the same research techniques I had always used) that discussed Rick Warren and his Purpose Driven teachings (see the link to this book on my main web page for more info). I found him to be innocent of many of the charges being leveled against him by these so-called Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs). I then posted some articles online bringing correction to some of the false statements, misinformation, and inaccurate reporting that was taking place regarding Rick Warren. Here is where the story begins.
One of the articles I posted was on Ken Silva. It dealt with various statements that he had made about Warren, Saddleback, and Purpose Driven that, according to my research, were false, misleading, and damaging to the Body of Christ. My observations dealt with his research methods, accuracy in reporting facts, and conclusions of his that I found to be erroneous regarding Warren's views. Such observations fell well inside the bounds of apologetics/discernment.
Silva was not happy. He responded to my observations by posting not one, but two articles. The first article was a kind of point-by-point refutation of what I had stated (I NEVER complained, BTW, to IPOWER about this article). His second response was the article in question, "A Pastors Assessment of Richard Abanes," which in my opinion, fell well outside the bounds of apologetic/discernment critique and into the area of personal attacks deliberately intended to harm my personal/professional reputation.
Soon after I published my article on Silva, I saw that things were not going well. So, I took down ALL of my articles that were critical of the Online Discerners, including Ken Silva. They remained gone from the Internet for 3 years!!! And yet Silva kept up his two response articles to me all during that time and up to the present day -- even though his responses were to articles that no longer even existed (cached or any where else).
I began discussing Warren again online in December 2007. And noticed the continuing presence of this article by Silva, which had gained a significant presence on the Internet. And I also began receiving emails about it. To my mind, something needed to be done -- as long as I remained within my biblical parameters and within the law. Those guidelines allowed me to write a simple email to Silva's ISP, asking them to take a look at t because I felt it was violating their TOS. They agreed. And the rest, as they say, is history.
As I have noted elsewhere on the Internet, the 2005 critiques I wrote on Ken Silva (the very ones that he quotes and discusses in his so-called "response" articles against me) have not been online since 2005! The obvious question is: If those articles he is using as the bases of his critical attacks against me are no longer online (and haven't been for three years), then why are his responses to those long-dead articles by me still up on the Internet? No one seems to be asking this question. I can only wonder: Why?
R. Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:55:19 PM
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peacebringer
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Mr. Abanes, one of the sad things is that your action with the ISP was based on an assumption, accurate or not, that Pastor Silva would just ignore you. You didn't even give him a chance, but chose a carnal weapon (INMHO) to get your way. This is the basic perception and feedback.
< Message edited by peacebringer -- 8/5/2008 1:04:08 PM >
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 1:34:00 PM
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mushhead
Posts: 514
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RAbanes,
I truly hope that I didn't come across the wrong way in my first post. I join jayvance in saying that I do not intend any disprespect; I am only trying to share with you how this whole affair looks from someone who didn't know anything about it ten minutes before I posted my comments.
quote:
MUSH: That said, I must agree with "jayvance" that your actions betray your true intentions for filing the complaint.
RA: Really?
1. My true "actions" = writing to an ISP to ask them to review a single article out of hundreds.
2. My "true intentions" -- IPOWER, please check out the article in question. I believe it violates your TOS agreement."
There. True actions recapped. And true intentions voiced again.
Writing as one looking at this whole affair from a distance (but also as one who has read numerous mean spirited and inaccurate articles on Apprising's site), the question that immediately comes to mind is, "Why complain about this article and not one of the others Silva wrote about you? Is this the only article that contained inaccurate and disparaging comments about you and your ministry?
quote:
MUSH: As you were informed about the TOS of the host site, you certainly knew that if Silva refused, the site itself, might be taken down.
RA: Really? And please do tell me how I "knew" Silva would respond so outrageously by definatly refusing to take down that one article -- and THAT is what led to his website being kicked. In all my years of experience, I have NEVER know anyone to react so irrationally. I have received such requests and complied. Others have received such requests and complied. I've sent this same form-letter, template complaint before -- and NO problems.
Okay, I (again, as a distant observer) can believe that you didn't expect Silva to respond in this way. However, it seems somewhat naive of you not to have expected it. Even someone that purchased his degree in pop psychologhy on the Internet could have seen that coming. After all, taking down the article is tantamount to admitting he was wrong. Considering Silva's certainty about his positions, and the fact he believes he is doing God's work, it is not hard to imagine he would refuse to admit error; much less do something that he'd likley consider the equivalent of denying the truths of God.
quote:
I've sent this same form-letter, template complaint before -- and NO problems.
This is not a new practice for you?
quote:
But now suddenly we have Silva, who responds to the requst from his IPS as if they some Gestapo squad had tried to break his door down and take his computer.
Your right, his ISP didn't use Gestapo tactics, but this is the reason I have serious reservations with how you handled this situation. I agree that Silva probably had it coming. I agree that it would be better for the church if all of us functioned under some local accountability structure so that situations like this could be handled in-house. Unfortunately, the reality of our situation is that many people say and do things in the name of Christ with almost complete impugnity. I know this can pose a real problem for the targets of people like Silva, and only serves to reinforce the publics negative image of the church, but my greater concern is the consequences that your actions might have for the rest of us.
A tactic of oppressive governments to insure continued conformity to their policies is controlling what the public reads. Certainly this situation is not the same thing, but it could be the first steps toward more serious abuses against Christians by those (even by other Christians) who, following your example, use similar tactics to keep the writings of those they disagree with out of the public realm. This might seem far fetched, but the proposed Fairness Doctrine reminds us that we must always be diligent in these matters.
Paul wrote that we are free to do many things, but not all of those things are beneficial. IMO, you should have posted a response refuting Silva's positions and then moved on. The potential cost of your actions, far outweigh any benefit.
< Message edited by mushhead -- 8/5/2008 1:46:27 PM >
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MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 1:34:24 PM
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rabanes
Posts: 29
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quote:
one of the sad things . . . .
One of the sad things to me is the utter silence coming from so many people regarding Silva's actions, which have been shown to be blatantly unbiblical.
My initial response, however, at worst, simply shows a bit of pessimism with regard to making any headway with Silva in private. Writing to his ISP wsa not unbilbical, and yet.........
Twisting scripture and forcing a situation into it, does not make something biblical. It only makes truth more of an enemy. And the darkness grows. The truth is the truth. And those with ears to ear and eyes to see will both hear and see.
RAbanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 1:39:53 PM
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rabanes
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quote:
The potential cost of your actions, far outweigh any benefit.
We'll see. The benefit of truth, and standing for it, is incalculable. And that is what I have done and will continue to do.
Sin hates to have light shined upon it. And I am seeing the accuracy of that statement as never before, thanks to this incident. And others are seeing it to. I rejoice over that.
I do grieve, however, over the state of our church wherein certain "Christians" are attempting to use scripture as a shield for their sin, intolerance, legalism, disregard for authority, lack of love, and perversion of the noble calling of apologetics/discernment.
R. Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 1:45:34 PM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
quote:
one of the sad things . . . .
One of the sad things to me is the utter silence coming from so many people regarding Silva's actions, which have been shown to be blatantly unbiblical.
My initial response, however, at worst, simply shows a bit of pessimism with regard to making any headway with Silva in private. Writing to his ISP wsa not unbilbical, and yet.........
Twisting scripture and forcing a situation into it, does not make something biblical. It only makes truth more of an enemy. And the darkness grows. The truth is the truth. And those with ears to ear and eyes to see will both hear and see.
RAbanes
As said, if I had direct interaction with Pastor Silva, I would make comments to him. I/We are having direct interactions with you. You keep saying your behavior was not contradicted biblically. How do you reconcile it with 1 Corinthians 13. How do you reconcile behavior with Matthew 5:16. How do you reconcile it with Romans 12:16-21 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 1:49:56 PM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
quote:
The potential cost of your actions, far outweigh any benefit.
We'll see. The benefit of truth, and standing for it, is incalculable. And that is what I have done and will continue to do.
Sin hates to have light shined upon it. And I am seeing the accuracy of that statement as never before, thanks to this incident. And others are seeing it to. I rejoice over that.
I do grieve, however, over the state of our church wherein certain "Christians" are attempting to use scripture as a shield for their sin, intolerance, legalism, disregard for authority, lack of love, and perversion of the noble calling of apologetics/discernment.
R. Abanes
and yet you use the same techniques thay have my brother. On your blog, you bring attack for attack. And yes, truth needs to be done, but done in love. If in my confrontation, I stray from love, let me know. Truth can be spoken, but sometimes there is a line crossed from speaking love or convincing right. Often times what is done in the name of apologetics, is simple agenda driven and not done in surrender to the Kingdom of God. We can all do it easily. We deep down all have a propensity to engage in self defense. We all have a propensity to want to be right. In otherwords, we all have a propensity to be prideful. Now that is a general statement I am making here.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 1:50:19 PM
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mushhead
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From: Kearns
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quote:
We'll see. The benefit of truth, and standing for it, is incalculable. And that is what I have done and will continue to do.
I agree wholeheartedly that the benefits of standing for truth are incalculable. My only disagreement is with how you chose to stand for truth in this situation.
< Message edited by mushhead -- 8/5/2008 2:12:23 PM >
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MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 2:00:06 PM
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rabanes
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quote:
and yet you use the same techniques thay have my brother. On your blog, you bring attack for attack. And yes, truth needs to be done, but done in love.
And perhaps this is where we will have to stand in disagreement, and perhaps just move on, letting God sort it from here on out (as you see I have closed comments on blog), and try to now start dealing with issues like Mormonism, the New Age, the false teachings of Eckhart Tolle/Oprah Winfrey, the dangers of the occult on our youth, alternative religions that lead the lost away from Jesus.
R. Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 2:02:54 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
quote:
and yet you use the same techniques thay have my brother. On your blog, you bring attack for attack. And yes, truth needs to be done, but done in love.
And perhaps this is where we will have to stand in disagreement, and perhaps just move on, letting God sort it from here on out (as you see I have closed comments on blog), and try to now start dealing with issues like Mormonism, the New Age, the false teachings of Eckhart Tolle/Oprah Winfrey, the dangers of the occult on our youth, alternative religions that lead the lost away from Jesus.
R. Abanes
yes, that is my opinion, I got no problem disargeeing. And yes dealing with those other issues should be much more important.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 2:13:05 PM
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rabanes
Posts: 29
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline
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yes, that is my opinion, I got no problem disargeeing. And yes dealing with those other issues should be much more important.
Then, my brother, let us go forward into other threads and defend the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. Enough info is out there now for people to take sides (although I hate using that expression). I eagerly look forward to joining all of you in other threads here, for the glory of God.
RAbanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 2:18:58 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
quote:
yes, that is my opinion, I got no problem disargeeing. And yes dealing with those other issues should be much more important.
Then, my brother, let us go forward into other threads and defend the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. Enough info is out there now for people to take sides (although I hate using that expression). I eagerly look forward to joining all of you in other threads here, for the glory of God.
RAbanes
my intention was never to take sides brother, just to confront what I see and leave the rest up to God. THis is me, I cannot speak for anyone else.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 5:26:28 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2009
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: peacebringer
my intention was never to take sides brother, just to confront what I see and leave the rest up to God. THis is me, I cannot speak for anyone else.
You know, peacebringer...I'm ALMOST there too. However, the fact that Mr. Abanes has this afternoon stated that he has sent this kind of letter before (the ISP letter) in other situations...well, that is one thing right now that keeps me from moving on and encouraging Mr. Abanes to engage in other discussions here.
Given the history with the ISP letter(s?), the forum mods here may even now have a PM waiting for them from Mr. Abanes demanding that this thread be taken down, and requesting that anyone who has questioned Mr. Abanes' actions be dumped from the forums.
Mr. Abanes - I hope that you're not considering this discussion as one that deserves that sort of threat. But now I wonder.
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America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 6:02:50 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 221
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
my intention was never to take sides brother, just to confront what I see and leave the rest up to God. THis is me, I cannot speak for anyone else.
You know, peacebringer...I'm ALMOST there too. However, the fact that Mr. Abanes has this afternoon stated that he has sent this kind of letter before (the ISP letter) in other situations...well, that is one thing right now that keeps me from moving on and encouraging Mr. Abanes to engage in other discussions here.
Given the history with the ISP letter(s?), the forum mods here may even now have a PM waiting for them from Mr. Abanes demanding that this thread be taken down, and requesting that anyone who has questioned Mr. Abanes' actions be dumped from the forums.
Mr. Abanes - I hope that you're not considering this discussion as one that deserves that sort of threat. But now I wonder.
Oh, I have my opinion as stated about Mr. Abanes and his interactions with others. He made it clear he understood my disagreement. I just know I cannot say anything to change his mind. I have said what I felt I needed to say. If I feel need to say anything more. I am not going to operate or sit in fear over what anyone from Mr. Abanes, to Pastor Silva, or anyone else will do. I am responsible for my responses. I certainly fail myself to always interact in a Christlike manner or avoid speaking or commenting of my own ideas or even agendas. We all need to constantly examine self. I don't feel a need to harp on Mr. Abanes and tell him he is wrong and how and become a clanging gong. Truth is spoken, the rest resides with the hear and how the Holy Spirit prompts.
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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