Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive.....

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cybrjewls -> Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/27/2008 12:01:56 PM)
Hello! I would like to discuss the Nephilim which is written in: Genesis 6:1-5 . This is, evidently, what caused violence and wickedness to increase to the point where God was no longer happy enough to leave them alive without Judgment (deciding) upon the flood. We notice that Scripture is chapter 6: which is the number of man or a man as written. For God is a God of Order and Meaning and Substance. For Faith is the Substance of things.... and God Is Faithful for HE Remains Faithful For He cannot BE separated from HIMSELF is written. For people were created on day 6 as Prophesied in Genesis via Moses: the hand of the mediator when received from angels as written. One could notice, obviously, that this a retroactive prophecy for God stands outside of time contraints and is timeless as evident in Daniel and Revelation Prophecy where the Work of revealing these Prophecies was accomplished outside of time and Daniel and one other person and John The Apostle stood on the shore together with the River of Life between representing the Coming of The Lord Jesus to Fulfill all things Written and Spoken via His Prophets from of Old; Where the Majestic and Most Powerful Holy and Annointed One Had His Place; of course; above this River. The Living Waters that Well Up to Eternal Life as Jesus' Word Says. This is in accordance with what is written in revelation: the beast who once was, now is not, yet will come.' For, some of the angelic host became anti-Christ-like beings on the earth and one of them was the false worldly prophet leader of the devil called the anti-Christ. He had miraculous powers which were used for violence in accordance with The Word Spoken regarding the Nephilum. The false prophet, which is a fallen 'power that be' that fell with lucifer in the rebellion of certain angels; as written in revelation where The Dragon sweeps 1/3 of the angels out of the upper heavenly realms; will come again and fight the Two Witnesses as written in revelation concerning how they prophecy for 42 months or 3 1/2 years or 1260 days and then they will finish their Testimony; for the Testimony of Jesus Is The Spirit of Prophecy; they will be killed by the false worldly prophet leader (the beast (from the earth) that jumps up from the pit will kill the Two Witnesses). They will lie in the street for 3 days and 1/2 days as written. Then they will come to life in front of the whole world and will taken up into Heaven like Jesus Messiah. Then the abomination that causes desolation decrees to be issued (as written in revelation) will be set up in The Temple of God; and 30-75 more days will occur. At this point, anyone in Jerusalem (Judea) must flee to the mountains. During the dead bodies of the Two Witnesses the people on earth will give 'christmas' gifts to each other as written. I would assert that the People of Jesus Messiah should leave Jerusalem as soon as they see the dead bodies of The Two Witnesses in accordance with The Word Spoken by Jesus Christ; for he Said 'wherever there is a dead body, there vultures will gather.'

MrFribbles -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/27/2008 11:00:35 PM)
quote: We notice that Scripture is chapter 6 We should also notice that those chapter numberings were added by humans well after the Genesis account was written. We should not ascribe special meaning to chapter or verse numbers, as they are not inspired. quote: For, some of the angelic host became anti-Christ-like beings on the earth and one of them was the false worldly prophet leader of the devil called the anti-Christ. There is absolutely nothing in the text to support this. I'm not sure that you're actually discussing the Nephilim here. It seems more of an end-times discussion.

Stephanos -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/27/2008 11:50:42 PM)
As MrFribbles points out, in the original texts, there were NO Chapters NO verses. Chapters (as we know them) were not set up until the 13th century (earlier "chapter" divisions appeared as early as the 4th Century and the Council of Nicaea). When Genesis was written by Moses, there were NO chapters at all! So to use any sort of numerology to indicate some spiritual truth, is flawed to say the least. As for the Nephilim, there is NO scriptural evidence AT ALL, that says they were Angels, fallen Angels, or anything of the kind.

MrFribbles -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:07:29 AM)
quote: As for the Nephilim, there is NO scriptural evidence AT ALL, that says they were Angels, fallen Angels, or anything of the kind. Well, not the Nephilim themselves, but there is some interesting arguments for suggesting that their parents were one woman and one angel. However, before this discussion blooms any further, I would like to point out that this should remain an angels-on-pin topic - one that's interesting to ponder, but ultimately not a big deal. God doesn't want us tearing each other apart over such a debatable and inconsequential matter, right?

Stephanos -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:11:48 AM)
With all due respect, if people are teaching that angels/fallen angels have come to earth, had sex with women, and had babies that are half human hybrids, then it IS something to discuss, because I DO find that heretical and incompatible with a Christian view of scripture.

MrFribbles -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:14:53 AM)
quote: With all due respect, if people are teaching that angels/fallen angels have come to earth, had sex with women, and had babies that are half human hybrids, then it IS something to discuss, because I DO find that heretical and incompatible with a Christian view of scripture. How so?

LCannon -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 1:02:29 AM)
Maybe the Nephilim and gentiles intermarrying was enough of an abomination worthy of destruction. The proposal is straight from the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith 'found(ed)' the 13th tribe, the Nephilim, in America. How crazy this that?

MrFribbles -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 1:24:16 AM)
quote: Maybe the Nephilim and gentiles intermarrying was enough of an abomination worthy of destruction. The proposal is straight from the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith 'found(ed)' the 13th tribe, the Nephilim, in America. How crazy this that? Too bad Ol' Joe Smith forgot that there weren't gentiles back then, since the nation of Israel wasn't founded until at least Abram became Abraham.

BerianAardvark -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 10:28:42 AM)
Context and definition makes it clear that Moses isn't saying that angels and humans mated. He has been talking about the lines of Shem and Cain contrasting them showing one to be worldly and the other (at least relatively) godly. He has not even mentioned angels as yet, and wont for some time (first mention of angels is in chapter 16, many hundreds of words away.) There is nowhere in scripture does it state directly that humans and angels mated. Sons of God" were not angels either good or bad, as many have thought, since they are incorporeal beings, and cannot be affected with fleshly lusts, or marry and be given in marriage, or generate and be generated. According to Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries נפל נפיל nephîyl nephil nef-eel', nef-eel' is a word derived from From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant. Feller here is not a misspelling of fellow, but rather an archaic term for to cut, knock, bring down or kill. Which would indicate that what is being talked of are people who began to use their size, prowess or position to intimidate and rule those around them. Lamech (Genesis 3:19-24) would be an example of a feller. Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Notice it doesn't say anything specifically about their physical stature, but that they were mighty men of renown, nor does it in any way reference angels fallen or orhtwise. It was the Anakim who were physical giants (Anakim means long-necked, or strong-necked people), and both Nephilim and Anakim would have looked down upon other people seeing them as "grasshoppers", and by their size of demeanor bring others to seem themselves as grasshoppers as well. So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, "The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight." (Numbers 13:32-33) Tim

DougHorton -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 10:56:12 AM)
Jesus' statement precludes any idea of marriage with angelic beings: Mt 22:30 - "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Mr 12:25 - "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Lu 20:35 - but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; Throughout scripture the reference "sons of god" refers to holy people, while "daughters of men" refers to unbelieving women. We are told that believers and unbelievers are not to marry. This passage in Genesis is an example why.

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 11:03:06 AM)
LOL!! God is a God of order is written. quote: ORIGINAL: MrFribbles quote: We notice that Scripture is chapter 6 We should also notice that those chapter numberings were added by humans well after the Genesis account was written. We should not ascribe special meaning to chapter or verse numbers, as they are not inspired. quote: For, some of the angelic host became anti-Christ-like beings on the earth and one of them was the false worldly prophet leader of the devil called the anti-Christ. There is absolutely nothing in the text to support this. I'm not sure that you're actually discussing the Nephilim here. It seems more of an end-times discussion. It says, The Sons of Yah saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, though.

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 11:13:15 AM)
Amen! However, mankind were only herbivores as given by God's Word until Noah. Therefore, the elohim are no longer able or allowed to do anything of the sort; apparently; may be a valid belief. For The Kingdom advances and revelation unfolds. For The Word of God is Living and Active and sharper than any double edged sword. We read that at certain epoch, some of the angels were open to being swept from the heavens by lucifer as testing during that time. Therefore, we know that seasons and times are not ours to know about in accordance with The Word spoken by Jesus Christ. And, we know that things change over time for God Intervenes to render His Judgments (decisions). We get older sooner, for example, than the patriarchs. Also, the angels are called the 'sons of god' as well. Jesus said: the son of man. Identifying himself, directly, with us in our state of existence and humbling himself; for the Greatest Is The Least is The Kingdom of God Teaching. The Prophets are called the sons of God and Adam is written to be called the son of God. How Great a Love has God bestowed upon Us that we should be called the Sons and Daughters of the living God! quote: ORIGINAL: DougHorton Jesus' statement precludes any idea of marriage with angelic beings: Mt 22:30 - "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Mr 12:25 - "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Lu 20:35 - but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; Throughout scripture the reference "sons of god" refers to holy people, while "daughters of men" refers to unbelieving women. We are told that believers and unbelievers are not to marry. This passage in Genesis is an example why. From your example: it is Good to recognize that 'sons of god', as written in Holy Prophets of The Lord, speaks to the verse where God calls His Prophets: I have called you 'elohim' (which some translate as 'mighty ones'), but you will die like men. Therefore, The Prophets may be those that are referred to here as in accordance with your beliefs. For The Prophets had power From God to issue decrees and many different Words From God. Anyway, the revelation tells us that the false worldly antiChrist prophet being existed once before, now is not, yet will come and go with lucifer to his destruction. Also, the false worldly prophet 'leader' being will be released another time after The Millennium Period of Jesus' earthly Reign on earth at Jerusalem unto Armageddon. The beast (from the earth) is an 8th king, he belongs to the seven (hills or major powerful beings ruling the dark places in the lower heavenly realms) and is going to his destruction. The beast (seven hills and 10 horns) from the sea (the confederation of satanic elements and rulers, authorities, and 'powers that be') will be thrown into the dark lake of fire that burns with sulfur along with satan and the false prophet who deceived some of the people on the earth to take the mark of the false worldly prophet leader which is the number of the name of the 'power that be'. This lake is made only for these; however God's Good Graces were bestowed upon mankind that they should be 'tested' and found counted by Grace to be worthy of rewards as well. Gd will not test us beyond what we can handle and will grant us the Grace to be able to stand up under the trial is Holy Scripture Teaching. For Apostle Paul writes concerning the testing of your Faith.

BerianAardvark -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 11:25:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cybrjewls LOL!! God is a God of order is written. It says, The Sons of Yah saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, though. Sorry, but it says 'ĕlôhîym Gen 6:1 ויהי1961 And it came to pass, כי3588 when החל2490 began האדם120 men לרב7231 to multiply על5921 on פני6440 the face האדמה127 of the earth, ובנות1323 and daughters ילדו׃3205 were born Gen 6:2 ויראו7200 saw בני1121 That the sons האלהים 430 of God את853 בנות1323 the daughters האדם120 of men כי3588 that טבת2896 fair; הנה2007 they ויקחו3947 and they took להם נשׁים802 them wives מכל3605 of all אשׁר834 which בחרו׃977 they chose. (this window will not allow proper (left to right) formatting of Hebrew, my apologies) From Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions: H430 אלהים 'ĕlôhîym 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive - singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God It never hurts to have an interlinear Bible on hand when you are going to make claims as to what the original language is, because (at least around here) it is guaranteed someone else will. Tim

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 11:32:43 AM)
Thank you for you input. That is even better! It shows that what is talked about are Prophets or Angelic beings. quote: ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark quote: ORIGINAL: cybrjewls LOL!! God is a God of order is written. It says, The Sons of Yah saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, though. Sorry, but it says 'ĕlôhîym Gen 6:1 åéäé1961 And it came to pass, ëé3588 when äçì2490 began äàãí120 men ìøá7231 to multiply òì5921 on ôðé6440 the face äàãîä127 of the earth, åáðåú1323 and daughters éìãåÓ3205 were born Gen 6:2 åéøàå7200 saw áðé1121 That the sons äàìäéí 430 of God àú853 áðåú1323 the daughters äàãí120 of men ëé3588 that èáú2896 fair; äðä2007 they åé÷çå3947 and they took ìäí ðùÑéí802 them wives îëì3605 of all àùÑø834 which áçøåÓ977 they chose. (this window will not allow proper (left to right) formatting of Hebrew, my apologies) From Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions: H430 àìäéí 'ĕlôhîym 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive - singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God It never hurts to have an interlinear Bible on hand when you are going to make claims as to what the original language is, because (at least around here) it is guaranteed someone else will. Tim

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 11:41:46 AM)
LOL! Leave it Joseph, again, to make up his own scriptures; even; because he was a mason. Therefore, they promoted him to Master Mason. quote: ORIGINAL: LCannon Maybe the Nephilim and gentiles intermarrying was enough of an abomination worthy of destruction. The proposal is straight from the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith 'found(ed)' the 13th tribe, the Nephilim, in America. How crazy this that?

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:00:32 PM)
Greetings! So, to you, the council was not inspired by God. To me, God has purposes in the events in history; and especially concerning the Sovereignity of how the Holy Scriptures are Divinely Inspired. To you, it is all human intervention; then. It is not by might, not by power, but by The Spirit of The Living God as written. quote: ORIGINAL: Stephanos As MrFribbles points out, in the original texts, there were NO Chapters NO verses. Chapters (as we know them) were not set up until the 13th century (earlier "chapter" divisions appeared as early as the 4th Century and the Council of Nicaea). When Genesis was written by Moses, there were NO chapters at all! So to use any sort of numerology to indicate some spiritual truth, is flawed to say the least. As for the Nephilim, there is NO scriptural evidence AT ALL, that says they were Angels, fallen Angels, or anything of the kind.

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:07:10 PM)
Greetings! I AM The Resurrection and The Life said Jesus. Therefore, the Prophets are like the angles in heaven for Christ said that they will be like the angels are with no women and marriage except to God Alone. We see that in Revelation that John the Apostle is treated like to have come from among the angels and that in Ezekiel and other Prophets like Daniel the revelation and Prophecy that they are given is bestowed upon them in conjuction with the Works of The Holy Angels of God. Therefore, it is valid to discuss the present warning of revelation for believers to understand and take due warning from ahead of time. I my beliefs, there is room for both understandings; perhaps; because 1/3 of the angels fell with lucifer in not standing the trials that were undergone through the times and the seasons. quote: ORIGINAL: Stephanos With all due respect, if people are teaching that angels/fallen angels have come to earth, had sex with women, and had babies that are half human hybrids, then it IS something to discuss, because I DO find that heretical and incompatible with a Christian view of scripture.

BerianAardvark -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:09:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cybrjewls Thank you for you input. That is even better! It shows that what is talked about are Prophets or Angelic beings. It shows that you were wrong about it being Yah that was referred to in the verses you cited, that is ALL it shows. From Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions: H430 àìäéí 'ĕlôhîym 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive - singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God One of the definitions happens to be angles, and from the context (see my other post #9 in this thread) angles is the LEAST likely definition, and rulers, judges the most likely of the definitions. Tim

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:18:24 PM)
Knowledge puffs up. Love edifies. I have Called you 'elohim' is written concerning The Prophets of God. In the King James version it says 'sons of Yah'. quote: ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark quote: ORIGINAL: cybrjewls Thank you for you input. That is even better! It shows that what is talked about are Prophets or Angelic beings. It shows that you were wrong about it being Yah that was referred to in the verses you cited, that is ALL it shows. From Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions: H430 àìäéí 'ĕlôhîym 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive - singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God One of the definitions happens to be angles, and from the context (see my other post #9 in this thread) angles is the LEAST likely definition, and rulers, judges the most likely of the definitions. Tim

BerianAardvark -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/28/2008 12:55:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cybrjewls Knowledge puffs up. Love edifies. I have Called you 'elohim' is written concerning The Prophets of God. In the King James version it says 'sons of Yah'. Care to cite where the prophets of God are referred to as Elohim? If you are referring to I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. (Psalms 82:6-7) All that is referred to there is a warning to those human beings who were rulers, judges (definition 1 of those I cited). He cannot be referring to angels, angels being spirits cannot die like other men. it has to be referring to those who had earthly power. Though God admitted their official dignity, He reminds them of their mortality. I just happen to have a King James it says God. One of them has the Strong's numbers embedded (so we can determine what the original Hebrew was): That the sonsH1121 of GodH430 sawH7200 [H8799] the daughtersH1323 of menH120 that theyH2007 were fairH2896; and they tookH3947 [H8799] them wivesH802 of all which they choseH977 [H8804]. (Genesis 6:2) GodH430 The Hebrew that the translators of the KJV translated as God was still Elohim, not Yah. I have several other resources should you wish to claim another translation does say YAH. The original Hebrew (and I have several copies of the Bible in Hebrew as well) will say still what it says regardless of what any translator decides to put into their translation, and there are no known Hebrew variants of those verses that have anything other than Elohim. Making your comments using pseudo mystical phrasing, and using partial quotes of out of context scripture will not enhance your credibility, citing scripture in full and in context will. Tim

theo_book -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/29/2008 4:16:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephanos With all due respect, if people are teaching that angels/fallen angels have come to earth, had sex with women, and had babies that are half human hybrids, then it IS something to discuss, because I DO find that heretical and incompatible with a Christian view of scripture. Not quite true. "Oikeeteerion" and the fallen angels REFERENCE IS MADE TO "THE SONS OF GOD" WITNESSING THE CREATION OF THE EARTH: Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? GOD MADE MAN A LITTLE LOWER THAN ELOHIYM Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the Elohiym (angels), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. ANGELS ARE ELOHIYM CLOTHED IN OIKEETEERION; God originally created two types of spiritual beings; one he called "Elohiym," [Psa 8:5] who were clothed in "oikeeteerion" [Jude 6]; Jude 6 And the angels which kept not (DID NOT MAINTAIN)their first estate, but left (ABANDONED)their OIKEETEERION (own habitation), he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. MEN ARE ELOHIYM CLOTHED IN SARX, WAITING TO BE CLOTHED WITH OIKEETEERION The other he called "ELOHIYM" [Psa 82:6] who, clothed in corruptible mortal flesh (sarx), waits to be clothed upon from heaven with that same "oikeeteerion." [II Cor 5:1-2] Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are (ELOHIYM) gods; and all of you are children of the most High. II Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our OIKEETEERION (house) which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Though God created Adam in flesh, it was never his intention that flesh and blood (sarx and haima) would inherit a kingdom intended for spiritual inhabitants. Indeed, he stands ready to exchange our clothing of flesh and mortality for an eternal clothing of incorruption and immortality. [II Cor 5:1-4][I Cor 15:42-54] 2) It was always God's plan to provide a "way of escape" for flesh, so his creation could be justified from a spiritual perspective rather than from a fleshly one, "For in thy sight shall no man living be justified." [Psa 143:2] Gen 1-2 God created Adam and Eve, male and female he created them and placed them in the garden of Eden, and instructed them that they could freely eat of every tree except one in the midst of the garden (2:9). But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were forbidden access thereunto, being warned that "in the day that thou shalt eat thereof thou shalt surely die." "YE SHALL BE AS ELOHIYM" Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as ELOHIYM (gods), knowing good and evil. THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are (ELOHIYM) gods; and all of you are children of the most High. JESUS QUOTES THIS PSALM John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? The reference to "sons of God" is only found in five places in the Old testament; three in Job (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7) and twice in Genesis, both times in the sixth chapter (verses 2 & 4). Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Moses tells us that there had been a certain contention among the gods, and that pride was the focus of the differences. [Exo 18:11] "Now I know that the LORD is greater than all ELOHIYM (gods): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them." Job tells us that God charged his angels with folly: [Job 4:18] Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his ELOHIYM (angels) he charged with folly: Gen 6 After developing the account of the fall of man and his consequent expulsion from Eden, God begins the story of man's ultimate failure to survive in a moral setting; having become involved with the abomination of mixing with SONS OF ELOHIYM (angels) in unholy marriages. [6:1-8] Satan's attempt to counterfeit God's plan for salvation through an intermingling arrangement of marriage and begetting of a hybrid race, was defeated by God's action of flooding the Earth and destroying the demonic offspring by water. Gen 6:1-2 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. II Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to (TARTARUS) hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: For man to be clothed with oikeeteerion REQUIRES more than original creation by which he was "clothed upon with sarx, that mortality might be swallowed up of life [II Cor 5:1-2]; it requires in fact, first, a "putting off of the body of the sins of the sarx (flesh) by the circumcision of Christ" [Col 2:11]; and we are counted as circumcised with Christ, who are baptized into Christ, wherein we also are raised with him. [Col 2:12-13] Jesus was the first man raised from the dead; the first to "Put on immortality;" The first to "Put on incorruption; the first fruit of them that slept [I Cor 15:20]; the first born from the dead [Col 1:18]; firstborn among many brethren [Rom 8:29]; and therefore was the first man to both die and not see corruption, and the first man to put on the "oikeeteerion" which is from heaven, and which is worn by the elohiym. Paul tells us we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ [Gal 3:27] and if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be alos in the likeness of his resurrection [Rom 6:5]; which we attain in baptism [Rom 6:3-4]; it remains for us to so live that it is no longer I that lives, but Christ living in me [Gal 2:20]. Any man in Christ is a "new creature." [II Cor 5:17] With Christ as our high priest, and we being in Christ, a priesthood [I Pet 2:9], we are reasonably expected to offer daily sacrifices to God, the sacrifice of our bodies [Rom 12:1] and them living. God expects us to crucify our flesh in living sacrifice with Christ [Gal 2:20][Rom 12:1-2] So that as Christ in the world we may present ourselves justified by the blood of the crucified Christ, by our faith therein, by the grace of the God who designed the plan, the logos. I Cor 15:42 42 "It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption; 43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory; It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power; 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. I Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. II Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Peter tells us of these fallen angels with a reference to the spirits which were disobedient in the days of Noah: 1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

rcjones -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/29/2008 9:45:25 PM)
quote: Notice it doesn't say anything specifically about their physical stature, but that they were mighty men of renown, nor does it in any way reference angels fallen or orhtwise. You have good analysis here. (in the whole post) There was an old Jewish interpreter, and I can't remember which, who suggested that the Nephilim were "The Fallen" as a title of those who were in the garden and their immediate family. Kind of like "The Chicago Seven". It makes good sense for the first usage, and maybe not all that bad for the second as a way of name calling, to say that they were notoriously wicked. We see this pattern of name calling in other scriptures later. It is consistent with the root, and translating it as giant might be considered redundant in the second usage. Just something to think about.

rcjones -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/29/2008 10:03:29 PM)
quote: Throughout scripture the reference "sons of god" refers to holy people, while "daughters of men" refers to unbelieving women. We are told that believers and unbelievers are not to marry. This passage in Genesis is an example why. Paul says "the woman was deceived". This might be figurative when referring to men and women. The 'sons of God' would be those who see clearly and follow God, and 'daughters of men' might be those who were deceived and do not follow God. Just something to think about. I doubt that women are more prone to being lost than men. However, on the other side, you are Jewish if your mother is Jewish, so Godly men who marry ungodly women forfeit their progeny to the ungodly. It is the opposite of being fruitful and multiplying.

rcjones -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/29/2008 10:15:17 PM)
quote: The reference to "sons of God" is only found in five places in the Old testament; three in Job (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7) and twice in Genesis, both times in the sixth chapter (verses 2 & 4). Since in Job, Satan was walking on the earth, doesn't this have to have happened before the fall? I mean if we believe it literally? I know it's a stupid question. But why wasn't he slithering to and fro? I think if this question is answered, the 'sons of God' might have another meaning. Just a thought.

cybrjewls -> RE: Nephilim: Some of the angels found human women attractive..... (7/30/2008 4:17:04 AM)
Greetings theo_book! Thank you for you great description and explanation of the Nephilim. I was most pleasantly surprised to see such excellent and berean-type analysis. I especially loved your statement regarding the arch angels (Gabriel, Michael) which were as morning stars first. In the beginning God created the Heavens.....and the earth. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? quote: ORIGINAL: theo_book quote: ORIGINAL: Stephanos With all due respect, if people are teaching that angels/fallen angels have come to earth, had sex with women, and had babies that are half human hybrids, then it IS something to discuss, because I DO find that heretical and incompatible with a Christian view of scripture. Not quite true. "Oikeeteerion" and the fallen angels REFERENCE IS MADE TO "THE SONS OF GOD" WITNESSING THE CREATION OF THE EARTH: Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? GOD MADE MAN A LITTLE LOWER THAN ELOHIYM Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the Elohiym (angels), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. ANGELS ARE ELOHIYM CLOTHED IN OIKEETEERION; God originally created two types of spiritual beings; one he called "Elohiym," [Psa 8:5] who were clothed in "oikeeteerion" [Jude 6]; Jude 6 And the angels which kept not (DID NOT MAINTAIN)their first estate, but left (ABANDONED)their OIKEETEERION (own habitation), he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. MEN ARE ELOHIYM CLOTHED IN SARX, WAITING TO BE CLOTHED WITH OIKEETEERION The other he called "ELOHIYM" [Psa 82:6] who, clothed in corruptible mortal flesh (sarx), waits to be clothed upon from heaven with that same "oikeeteerion." [II Cor 5:1-2] Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are (ELOHIYM) gods; and all of you are children of the most High. II Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our OIKEETEERION (house) which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Though God created Adam in flesh, it was never his intention that flesh and blood (sarx and haima) would inherit a kingdom intended for spiritual inhabitants. Indeed, he stands ready to exchange our clothing of flesh and mortality for an eternal clothing of incorruption and immortality. [II Cor 5:1-4][I Cor 15:42-54] 2) It was always God's plan to provide a "way of escape" for flesh, so his creation could be justified from a spiritual perspective rather than from a fleshly one, "For in thy sight shall no man living be justified." [Psa 143:2] Gen 1-2 God created Adam and Eve, male and female he created them and placed them in the garden of Eden, and instructed them that they could freely eat of every tree except one in the midst of the garden (2:9). But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were forbidden access thereunto, being warned that "in the day that thou shalt eat thereof thou shalt surely die." "YE SHALL BE AS ELOHIYM" Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as ELOHIYM (gods), knowing good and evil. THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are (ELOHIYM) gods; and all of you are children of the most High. JESUS QUOTES THIS PSALM John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? The reference to "sons of God" is only found in five places in the Old testament; three in Job (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7) and twice in Genesis, both times in the sixth chapter (verses 2 & 4). Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Moses tells us that there had been a certain contention among the gods, and that pride was the focus of the differences. [Exo 18:11] "Now I know that the LORD is greater than all ELOHIYM (gods): for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them." Job tells us that God charged his angels with folly: [Job 4:18] Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his ELOHIYM (angels) he charged with folly: Gen 6 After developing the account of the fall of man and his consequent expulsion from Eden, God begins the story of man's ultimate failure to survive in a moral setting; having become involved with the abomination of mixing with SONS OF ELOHIYM (angels) in unholy marriages. [6:1-8] Satan's attempt to counterfeit God's plan for salvation through an intermingling arrangement of marriage and begetting of a hybrid race, was defeated by God's action of flooding the Earth and destroying the demonic offspring by water. Gen 6:1-2 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. II Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to (TARTARUS) hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: For man to be clothed with oikeeteerion REQUIRES more than original creation by which he was "clothed upon with sarx, that mortality might be swallowed up of life [II Cor 5:1-2]; it requires in fact, first, a "putting off of the body of the sins of the sarx (flesh) by the circumcision of Christ" [Col 2:11]; and we are counted as circumcised with Christ, who are baptized into Christ, wherein we also are raised with him. [Col 2:12-13] Jesus was the first man raised from the dead; the first to "Put on immortality;" The first to "Put on incorruption; the first fruit of them that slept [I Cor 15:20]; the first born from the dead [Col 1:18]; firstborn among many brethren [Rom 8:29]; and therefore was the first man to both die and not see corruption, and the first man to put on the "oikeeteerion" which is from heaven, and which is worn by the elohiym. Paul tells us we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ [Gal 3:27] and if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be alos in the likeness of his resurrection [Rom 6:5]; which we attain in baptism [Rom 6:3-4]; it remains for us to so live that it is no longer I that lives, but Christ living in me [Gal 2:20]. Any man in Christ is a "new creature." [II Cor 5:17] With Christ as our high priest, and we being in Christ, a priesthood [I Pet 2:9], we are reasonably expected to offer daily sacrifices to God, the sacrifice of our bodies [Rom 12:1] and them living. God expects us to crucify our flesh in living sacrifice with Christ [Gal 2:20][Rom 12:1-2] So that as Christ in the world we may present ourselves justified by the blood of the crucified Christ, by our faith therein, by the grace of the God who designed the plan, the logos. I Cor 15:42 42 "It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption; 43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory; It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power; 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. I Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. II Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Peter tells us of these fallen angels with a reference to the spirits which were disobedient in the days of Noah: 1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

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