|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 11:42:03 AM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1966
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
Every word and deed one will have to account for... Fortunately you're once again wrong...
You can have your opinions of my correctness, but God simply isn't a political god. If he were, he would have taken over Rome.
quote:
Like a bird worthy less than a penny not hitting the ground without his consent? You're kidding yourself...
See, that's the really amazing part about God. There are some things he cares very much about- seemingly unimportant individuals like you and me. However, he largely ignores political systems.
quote:
Only on planet make believe...
So not only do you worship the god of conservative politics, you also think that people who accept that such things as pollution and global warming as real are crazy. Unfortunately, "crazy" is relative, so I guess the 80% of us who live on planet make believe will have to do more research to prove ourselves wrong on the global warming front.
quote:
Lip service...Supporting those who work to keep abortion(murder) legal is wanting it to happen...
I don't know anyone who wants to keep murder legal.
quote:
God is always first... We are to honor the king, yet FEAR God...
Yes, and God tells us to obey the king. The king asked us for our secular opinion of what is best for the country, and my view is that taxes need to go up.
quote:
By all means produce a verse that speaks of God taking a backseat to anyone or thing... You think because this is the theology part of the form that claims as such will fly?
Matt. 22:21. I think that pretty much clears up this portion of the debate.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 11:46:06 AM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1966
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
I guess the depends on what you feel is best for the long-term interests of this country. If it is financial gain in exchange for a corrupt value system, such as gay marriage, gay rights, abortion rights, acceptance of the world government agenda, etc.. then yes, I think God will take issue with it.
Actually, it's about financial loss. We need to take a whole bunch right now to make sure we survive as a nation. After we get our financial house in order, we can start talking about legislating morality.
quote:
When Jesus was on trial and all the Jews were chanting for the release of Barabas they were voting for what they thought was best. And while the death of Christ was ultimately what was best for the world God still holds them accountable for their vote.
Correction: God holds them accountable for rejecting their savior.
quote:
Many times when Peter preached to the Jews he brought this up, telling them that they killed Jesus and he attributed this as sin. So our votes do matter as they show what we support, were our values stand and what is most important to us.
If you recall correctly, Jesus was literally handed over by the religious authorities to be crucified. It wasn't really subject to a vote.
quote:
You cannot server two masters, God and mammon.
Exactly. Those who serve mammon would hate a tax increase.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 2:04:32 PM
|
|
|
inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
If you recall correctly, Jesus was literally handed over by the religious authorities to be crucified. It wasn't really subject to a vote.
But the governor said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." Pilate *said to them, "Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" They all *said, "Crucify Him!" And he said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But they kept shouting all the more, saying, "Crucify Him!" When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves."
(Mat 27:21-24 NASB)
quote:
Correction: God holds them accountable for rejecting their savior.
Actually got holds them accountable for their sin, by accepting Jesus their sin is paid for, by rejecting Him they will answer for their deeds.
But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: Rom 2:5-6 NASB)
quote:
You can have your opinions of my correctness, but God simply isn't a political god. If he were, he would have taken over Rome.
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. (Rom 13:1-2 NASB)
Sounds like God is in charge of the governing bodies as well. We are to obey the authorities that are in place because God had ordained it to be so.
quote:
Matt. 22:21. I think that pretty much clears up this portion of the debate.
Actually, taken in context this verse talks about the Pharisees trying to trap Jesus. All he is saying here is that we are to obey both, the established laws and God. However, when these two conflict then it is God who takes precedence as stated by the following:
But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge;
(Act 4:19 NASB)
But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. (Act 5:29 NASB)
quote:
Actually, it's about financial loss. We need to take a whole bunch right now to make sure we survive as a nation. After we get our financial house in order, we can start talking about legislating morality.
Actually they are already legislating morality by passing laws accepting gay marriage, passing laws stating it is legal to murder babies, they are making laws that state it is okay to go against the Word of God.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 2:11:28 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
You can have your opinions of my correctness, but God simply isn't a political god. If he were, he would have taken over Rome.
Again, there is nothing out of the scope of God... Saying that something is politics doesn't mask it and make an action that is wrong, ok...
quote:
See, that's the really amazing part about God. There are some things he cares very much about- seemingly unimportant individuals like you and me. However, he largely ignores political systems.
He doesn't ignore support for evil things...
quote:
So not only do you worship the god of conservative politics, you also think that people who accept that such things as pollution and global warming as real are crazy. Unfortunately, "crazy" is relative, so I guess the 80% of us who live on planet make believe will have to do more research to prove ourselves wrong on the global warming front.
I think you say anything..
quote:
I don't know anyone who wants to keep murder legal.
Anyone that votes for those who support the right of people to murder in the womb...
quote:
Yes, and God tells us to obey the king. The king asked us for our secular opinion of what is best for the country, and my view is that taxes need to go up.
The problem is that one can't obey the king if it means not obeying God...
quote:
Matt. 22:21. I think that pretty much clears up this portion of the debate.
Not when it amounts to not obeying God...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 7/29/2008 2:28:27 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 2:33:35 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Correction: God holds them accountable for rejecting their savior.
One must account for every word and deed.....
quote:
If you recall correctly, Jesus was literally handed over by the religious authorities to be crucified. It wasn't really subject to a vote.
Actually if you study more you'd find that Pilate offered the people a choice of Barabas or Jesus to be released... They voted for the known criminal to be released...
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 2:44:06 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1966
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Actually if you study more you'd find that Pilate offered the people a choice of Barabas or Jesus to be released... They voted for the known criminal to be released...
John
Had you studied even more carefully, you'd remember that Pilate was asking which person he should pardon- not whom he should condemn. In other words, the sin had already been committed.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 7/29/2008 2:51:13 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 2:50:22 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1966
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Again, there is nothing out of the scope of God... Saying that something is politics doesn't mask it and make an action that is wrong, ok...
It's not politics, it's opinion. There is nothing wrong with opinion, other than the fact that it might be incorrect.
Example: You have an interesting opinion, but it is incorrect.
quote:
He doesn't ignore support for evil things...
He doesn't ignore evil actions (sin). Your opinion is close to the truth here, but it is incorrect.
quote:
Anyone that votes for those who support the right of people to murder in the womb...
Again, opinion. Most people are of the opinion that this isn't murder. I respect your opinion, even if you may be incorrect to treat something you have no proof for as fact.
quote:
The problem is that one can't obey the king if it means not obeying God...
Offering your honest opinion isn't a sin. Period.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 2:54:50 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Actually if you study more you'd find that Pilate offered the people a choice of Barabas or Jesus to be released... They voted for the known criminal to be released...
John
Had you studied even more carefully, you'd remember that Pilate was asking which person he should pardon- not whom he should condemn.
They were both already condemned... And given that I posted they voted to release the known criminal says that I know what Pilate did...
Regardless, the vote for letting the known criminal go free was a vote against Christ... They called for his death like a pack of animals...
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 3:19:32 PM
|
|
|
inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
It's not politics, it's opinion. There is nothing wrong with opinion, other than the fact that it might be incorrect.
I think the problem here is you are confusing opinion with action.
It may be your "opinion" that NObama is better for the country but when you place a vote for him then you are expressing that opinion by showing support for his beliefs and his agenda. You are taking an action to help NObama achieve those goals.
Now you may think you can pick and choose what you support in a candidate but when you vote for someone you vote for the whole package.
So when you vote for someone who makes it clear that they support abortion (early or late term by the way) then you are taking the action of supporting abortion. Plain and simple.
quote:
Again, opinion. Most people are of the opinion that this isn't murder. I respect your opinion, even if you may be incorrect to treat something you have no proof for as fact.
Are you saying that abortion isn't murder? If so what would your definition of murder be? Do you believe that life begins at conception? What about late term abortion when the child is delivered except for the head and then it is stabbed in the back of the neck so that it will be born dead? Is that murder?
According to the American Medical Association, this procedure has four main elements.[8] First, the cervix is dilated. Second, the fetus is positioned for a footling breech. Third, the fetus is extracted except for the head. Fourth, the brain of the fetus is evacuated so that a dead but otherwise intact fetus is delivered via the vagina.
Intact D&X surgery
The following is NObama's response to the Supreme Court Upholding the Partial Birth Abortion Ban:
"I strongly disagree with today's Supreme Court ruling, which dramatically departs from previous precedents safeguarding the health of pregnant women. As Justice Ginsburg emphasized in her dissenting opinion, this ruling signals an alarming willingness on the part of the conservative majority to disregard its prior rulings respecting a woman's medical concerns and the very personal decisions between a doctor and patient."
— Statement, April 18, 2007
On Supreme Court Upholding Partial-Birth Abortion Ban
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 4:58:18 PM
|
|
|
davemiller7
Posts: 1054
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
|
Firstly, I don't believe that most people don't consider abortion to be murder. Secondly, even if most don't consider it to be murder, that doesn't make it right.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
Anyone that votes for those who support the right of people to murder in the womb...
Again, opinion. Most people are of the opinion that this isn't murder. I respect your opinion, even if you may be incorrect to treat something you have no proof for as fact.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 5:54:09 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
It's not politics, it's opinion. There is nothing wrong with opinion, other than the fact that it might be incorrect.
A vote for something or someone is expressing one's opinion and subject to judgment...
quote:
He doesn't ignore evil actions (sin). Your opinion is close to the truth here, but it is incorrect.
Support for something is an action....
quote:
Again, opinion. Most people are of the opinion that this isn't murder. I respect your opinion, even if you may be incorrect to treat something you have no proof for as fact.
Most people are wrong...Just like MOST people deny God...
quote:
Offering your honest opinion isn't a sin. Period.
Voting is more than offering an opinion... It's support for action(s)...
Telling a pollster you like Obama is an opinion... Voting for him is direct support and signing off on his agenda... Two very different things...
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 8:36:58 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
because if obama knew it wouldn't be released he would have cursed america aka his reverend?
Check out this: Maariv's publication of Barack Obama's Western Wall note spurs outrage, boycott
Note especially the next to last paragraph:
quote:
Maariv's response: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."
Don't mean to be cynical, but...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 8:47:08 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
Again, I sometimes need to drive to to work, so even though I know that hurts the environment and is liable to eventually put millions of people underwater
You have bought hook, line, and sinker into Al Bore's lies.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 8:54:18 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Actually if you study more you'd find that Pilate offered the people a choice of Barabas or Jesus to be released... They voted for the known criminal to be released...
John
Had you studied even more carefully, you'd remember that Pilate was asking which person he should pardon- not whom he should condemn. In other words, the sin had already been committed.
Mark 15:6 - 15 (HCSB) 6At£ the festival£ it was Pilate’s£ custom to release for the people a prisoner they requested. 7There was one named Barabbas, who was in prison with rebels who had committed murder£ during the rebellion.£ 8The crowd came up and began to ask ëPilateû to do for them as was his custom. 9So Pilate answered them, “Do you want me to release the King£ of the Jews£ for you?” 10For he knew it was because of envy£ that the chief priests had handed Him over. 11But the chief priests stirred up the crowd so that he would release Barabbas to them instead. 12Pilate asked them again, “Then what do you want me to do with the One you call the King of the Jews?” 13Again they shouted, “Crucify Him!” 14Then Pilate said to them, “Why? What has He done wrong?” But they shouted, “Crucify Him!” all the more. 15Then, willing to gratify the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them. And after having Jesus flogged,£ he handed Him over to be crucified.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 9:21:13 PM
|
|
|
inthysite
Posts: 770
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Maariv's response: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."
Thanks for the link Dubya, just confirms what I originally stated, that this prayer was just for show. My quote from Matthew is even more appropriate seeing how NObama submitted his prayer for publication.
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
I guess it pays to be cynical! To those who doubt me, oh ye of little faith.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/29/2008 10:57:28 PM
|
|
|
Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
quote:
Maariv's response: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."
Thanks for the link Dubya, just confirms what I originally stated, that this prayer was just for show. My quote from Matthew is even more appropriate seeing how NObama submitted his prayer for publication.
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
I guess it pays to be cynical! To those who doubt me, oh ye of little faith.
I think what is particularly interesting in this story is the "angst" and "offense" taken by the Obama people when this prayer was published. Do ya think that maybe someone in his campaign is about to get the axe?
How could anyone do something so stupid which would also be so offensive to the Israeli people?
Is this is an indication of the "diplomatic" and "foreign policy" skills of Obama?
Not to be too rough on Obama, this incident reminds me of a supposedly private photo of President and Mrs. Clinton embracing in a pool while on vacation. As I recall, it too was staged!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/30/2008 1:44:58 PM
|
|
|
davemiller7
Posts: 1054
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
|
I just can't imagine being so full of yourself as to write a prayer, stick it in the wall, then releasing the words of that prayer to the news media. “............... Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will.” The guarding against pride must have been a very fleeting request, and doesn't seem very sincere. The whole thing smacks of his egotism and arrogance.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
because if obama knew it wouldn't be released he would have cursed america aka his reverend?
Check out this: Maariv's publication of Barack Obama's Western Wall note spurs outrage, boycott
Note especially the next to last paragraph:
quote:
Maariv's response: "Obama's note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall."
Don't mean to be cynical, but...
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/30/2008 8:11:44 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
The "prayer" sounds as if it was written by a 12-year old rather than a Harvard-trained lawyer.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
