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Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 9:13:22 PM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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This past weekend, a written prayer (see link) written by Barack Obama, and left by him at Jerusalem's Western Wall was taken by an Israeli student, and turned over to a local newspaper which printed it in its morning edition.
My question is was this morally questionable? Is taking a written prayer, and publishing it for mass consumption without the author's consent wrong?
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/25/israeli-newspaper-draws-criticism-after-publishing-obamas-western-wall-prayer/
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 9:36:45 PM
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inthysite
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Was it wrong? Of course it was. A rabbi himself said it is forbidden to read notes left in the wall;
“The notes placed between the stones of the Western Wall are between a person and his maker. It is forbidden to read them or make any use of them,” he told Army Radio."
That being said I would not put it past the NObama campaign to have someone remove it and release it to the papers to help bolter his image and promote his faith.
I base this on the fact that they say a seminary student was the one who removed the note. Jews take the Wailing Wall very serious and a seminary student would know this would be a violation of their religion to remove someone else's prayer from the wall.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 9:48:59 PM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
That being said I would not put it past the NObama campaign to have someone remove it and release it to the papers to help bolter his image and promote his faith.
Wow, that was quick.
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 9:59:48 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Then why didn't he shoo the press away saying he needed time with God? Reminds me of the "private" photo of Slick and Hill dancing in the moonlight. It'snot underhanded, it's overt.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 10:47:33 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
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quote:
Wow, that was quick.
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
23 minutes and 23 seconds!!!!
Do I win a prize???
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 10:53:52 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 770
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Let me ask you what would you say about someone who stands at the Wailing Wall in front of all the camera's watching their every move and then proceeds to "pray"?
I'll tell you what the bible says about it:
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 10:59:24 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
That being said I would not put it past the NObama campaign to have someone remove it and release it to the papers to help bolter his image and promote his faith.
Wow, that was quick.
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
Obama's staff did not have it removed.
But his staff did plaster one of the holiest sites with campaign posters.
They did that because they knew people and the media would be watching.
They knew someone would take it and give it to the media or sell it on ebay.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 11:09:29 PM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
But his staff did plaster one of the holiest sites with campaign posters.
Show me.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/25/2008 11:19:24 PM
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djv1255
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
But his staff did plaster one of the holiest sites with campaign posters.
Show me.
Obama's posters
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:15:05 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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If that's really his prayer when is he going to leave the ungodly Demorcratic Party? Reverse his stance on abortion and the homosexual agenda...
John
Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 2:47:52 AM
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jkdjr25
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It strikes me as being very sad that if a Republican had put that note in the wall he would have been cheered from the rafters. A Democrat does so and is condemned.
No rampant bigotry there at all.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 4:01:24 AM
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djv1255
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
It strikes me as being very sad that if a Republican had put that note in the wall he would have been cheered from the rafters. A Democrat does so and is condemned.
No rampant bigotry there at all.
If it had been McCain with media, big SUVs and campaign posters, I would NOT be happy.
If Obama had ditched the media and visited the wall privately, I would have given him the benefit of doubt that his prayer was heartfelt.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 9:51:37 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Wow, that was quick.
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
Everything B. Hussein Obama does is a ploy, when he found out the pentegon would not let him take all the reporters and cameras with him to visit the injured troops in Germany; he cancelled the visit.
What a guy, what a great patriotic guy.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 10:43:43 AM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Wow, that was quick.
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
Everything B. Hussein Obama does is a ploy, when he found out the pentegon would not let him take all the reporters and cameras with him to visit the injured troops in Germany; he cancelled the visit.
What a guy, what a great patriotic guy.
Thanks
RC
From - Fox News:
quote:
Q: How was that determination made (by the Pentagon), the official designation that this would be a campaign stop?
Robert Gibbs (a senior communications adviser to the Obama campaign): Let me check and see if the word “official designation” was the accurate word. They cited regulation. Again and here’s what governed our making of choices, was the perception that anything, that we would be doing anything that would put our wounded men and women in the position of rightly or wrongly for whatever the determination into a situation where the back and forth would mean that this looks like a campaign event. As you know, several weeks ago Sen. Obama made a visit to Walter Reed. He did it very quietly, as you all will remember. On Monday, Sen. Obama stopped into a combat support hospital in the green zone of Baghdad, some of you may have seen the show on HBO called Baghdad ER, that was this hospital. We had every intention of stopping at this hospital and we had no intention of not making it. And quite frankly, that even in the event we were going to be that forthcoming about what happened. It was his desire and continuing desire to visit the men and women that have served our country and sacrificed.
Q: But when did the Pentagon actually know?
Gibbs: For a number of weeks.
Q: For a number of weeks they’ve known that you are planning to do this?
Gibbs: Yes.
Q: And when did they tell you that it would be a campaign event?
Gibbs: General Gration received information sometime on Wednesday evening.
This was on Obama's schedule for weeks, he was informed of the Pentagon's decision that this was to be considered a political (rather than official) visit on Wednesday.
So he cancelled rather than involve the troops in politics.
rcjames seems to want to involve the troops in politics more than Obama.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 11:18:09 AM
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inthysite
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The NObama camp is trying hard to spin a good light on this but the fact remains that they decided not to go once they were informed that the media could not accompany them.
The Pentagon did not tell NObama that he couldn't visit, only that he had to visit either as a sitting senator or if he insisted as coming as part of his campaign he would have to follow restrictions that have been in place for years, restrictions that the McCain camp adhered to, restrictions that if NObama's camp had done their work they would have known about.
"Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told FOX News the Pentagon did not tell Obama he couldn’t visit, but explained that he would be under specific restrictions.
“We do have certain policy guidelines for political campaigns and elections and what is appropriate and what is not appropriate in those situations,” he said. “The issue here is that if you are both a sitting senator and a political candidate … you need to do it in your capacity as a sitting senator or you have to do it with the restrictions that apply to any other candidate out there that might be running for office that is not a sitting senator.”
A memo sent out Wednesday from Undersecretary of Defense David Chu explained that Obama’s visit to such a military facility would be limited under these circumstances. Obama would not have been able to bring any of his campaign staff — only one Senate staffer and security. He also would not have been able to address the media or make any campaign-related statements.
The Obama campaign said Thursday it would be “inappropriate” to make such a stop on the campaign-funded leg of his trip, after the German magazine Der Spiegel reported on the cancellations.
John McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said, 'Barack Obama is wrong. It is never inappropriate to visit our men and women in the military.'”
Obama Camp: Visit to Troops Would Have Seemed Too Political
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 11:27:19 AM
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TaoPoohBear
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I guess I don't understand why the Pentagon waited until the "last minute" to inform Obama about their desicion; They knew about the itinerary for weeks.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:18:06 PM
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inthysite
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I guess I don't understand why the NObama camp didn't do the leg work to find out the requirements of visiting a military hospital as the McCain camp did. These are established restrictions that apply to any campaign and have been in effect for years.
Seems strange that McCain didn't have any problems visiting but for some reason NObama did.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:26:37 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Wow, that was quick.
I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest this prayer was somehow an underhanded political ploy by the Obama campaign.
Congratulations. Cynicism surely lives in you.
Everything B. Hussein Obama does is a ploy, when he found out the pentegon would not let him take all the reporters and cameras with him to visit the injured troops in Germany; he cancelled the visit.
What a guy, what a great patriotic guy.
Thanks
RC
Considering the Pentagon asked him not to go because of how it would look I think he can be forgiven. Of course considering he's a democrat he's unworthy of any forgiveness because Jesus only cam for the good, self righteous republicans.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:39:22 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
It strikes me as being very sad that if a Republican had put that note in the wall he would have been cheered from the rafters. A Democrat does so and is condemned.
Not all. First of all, he would know what the site represents. Should he pull such a stunt he would be condemed. Any attack against the Candy Man is seen as racist. NOT
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:45:59 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
It strikes me as being very sad that if a Republican had put that note in the wall he would have been cheered from the rafters. A Democrat does so and is condemned.
Not all. First of all, he would know what the site represents. Should he pull such a stunt he would be condemed. Any attack against the Candy Man is seen as racist. NOT
Actually, as I've pointed out before, there are people who are using racism and race baiting again Obama. I also find it very disconcerting that a man's prayer, a pretty humble one at that, is being used against him. Is that even remotely Christ like? Given some of the things that have been said previously I don't really buy that the so called "outrage" republicans over his visit to the wall is anything but propoganda and bigotry.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:52:30 PM
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galadriel2
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If God answers Sen. Obama's prayer to be an instrument of His will then we should witness Sen. Obama changing his positions of abortion, gay rights, and hope - Jesus Christ and His return is the blessed hope - not government under a new administration.
'Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.'
'If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me.'
'If we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.'
'looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ' (Titus 2:13)
Jesus was concerned for the individual, not what is best for the group as a whole so much as the individual. He dealt with people on an individual basis according to each one's need. Our Constitution and founding documents follow this pattern. America is a Republic concerned about protecting the rights and liberties of the individual finding himself in the midst of the powerful majority. America and Jesus aren't about doing what is best for the whole nation by serving your government in return for favors that it gives to you.
God bless abundantly,
Galadriel2
Maranatha
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 12:59:21 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
I guess I don't understand why the NObama camp didn't do the leg work to find out the requirements of visiting a military hospital as the McCain camp did. These are established restrictions that apply to any campaign and have been in effect for years.
Seems strange that McCain didn't have any problems visiting but for some reason NObama did.
quote:
Although the Illinois senator visited troops in Afghanistan and Iraq on the first part of his overseas trip, those stops were part of an official Congressional delegation, and therefore deemed apolitical
Washington Post
Again, the Pentagon notified the Senator at the last minute that the German visit would be considered political; A "title" for the visit the Senator did not wish.
Doesn't surprise me McCain has no problem with political visits to troops.
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RE: Obama's Western Wall Prayer Published - 7/26/2008 1:10:03 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Actually, as I've pointed out before, there are people who are using racism and race baiting again Obama. I also find it very disconcerting that a man's prayer, a pretty humble one at that, is being used against him.
Provide examples of main-stream racism and race-baiting. And Barry and humble do not belong in the same sentance. Is it humble to proclaim that when he is elected the seas will stop their rise? That he alone can bring peace to the planet? Was it humble what he did to get his seat in the Ill. senate? What is humble that he got a milllion dollar earmark for his wife's hospital and then proclaim he is a different kind of politicain? You are drinking the Barry kool-aide!
I am willing to bet his "prayer" was written by a press aide. Why didn't he have scripture as a prayer. Probably because he doesn't know any.
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