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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 4:52:50 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Well, you never answered my question as to what, exactly, was wrong with what was proposed so I assumed that it was the alcohol factor. Apparently I was wrong. It's secular music and people who play it coming into the church building that's the problem.
Help me out here. I have no idea what you're "absolutely appalled" about anymore.
lol. The appalling factor in the op was bringing the bar factor into the building. It's just spiraled from there.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 4:54:39 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9474
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I'm sorry, today must be one of my mostly dense days. Could you please tell me what you mean by "bar factor"? Specifically?
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 5:23:06 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
I'm sorry, today must be one of my mostly dense days. Could you please tell me what you mean by "bar factor"? Specifically?
quote:
There is a man I know who has decided to bring the bar into church. he is a musician and has decided to have a jam session in the church itself, as it is not very big. He also will change the name to ******** Free Church. I have not heard if this is with the pastor's blessing or not, yet. The above statement is how it was presented to me without further detail.
The above is the op. As I said earlier, the original premise was to bring alcohol in and have a jam session. That's the bar factor. Does that explain it?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 5:30:03 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9474
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From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The above is the op. As I said earlier, the original premise was to bring alcohol in and have a jam session. That's the bar factor. Does that explain it?
Okay, but when I tried to draw comparisons you replied with this...
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Okay, so drinking alcohol isn't a sin unless it's in church. Would that be only in the sanctuary or anywhere within the building?
This is an off base inference from the op.
quote:
What about congregations who meet in places other than a recognized church building?
What about them?
quote:
What if they come together Sunday mornings in a room in a restaurant where alcohol is served the other 6 days of the week? Are they not a church? Are their services not holy?
This has, what, to do with a secular jam session at a church?
quote:
And speaking of alcoholics, this is an awful lot like the argument to NOT let AA meet in church buildings. The church is "holy" and those people smoke. We don't want them!
Haven't heard that argument before. Sounds ridiculous though.
I guess it's just wrong because you say so and that's that.
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 5:32:56 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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I've known several people in bands who used a church gymnasium or music room to practice. They weren't told to get out simply because all there songs weren't about Jesus (which seems to be the cutoff point for music which is deemed "secular", as though that's a bad thing).
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 6:32:37 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/30/2007
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Ya'll just simply can't come up with something better than those?
Jimbo, your arguments are failing so, you just simply resort to personal attacks.
Coeurdeleon, you can't seem to get a grip on what the actual issue is here, so you want to reply with having better things to do. no one made you come back and participate. You had questions and I tried to clarify to help you understand and you still don't get it. Start from the beginning and read very slowly, maybe that will help.
Issues are clear, ya'll just don't like the answers.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 7/23/2008 6:45:03 PM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 6:39:24 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
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From: Augusta, GA
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I've read it. I simply disagree.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 6:48:13 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
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From: Augusta, GA
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What is your definition of "secular" jam sessions? What about this jam session, in particular, do you not like?
Is it the alcohol? Is it music which isn't blatantly talking about Jesus? Is it the fact that the musicians go to bars?
I could make just as bold a statement by saying "Secular jam sessions should be welcome in church buildings." Would it add anything to the argument?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 7:02:00 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
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Mat 21:12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.
Mat 21:13 And He *said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."
What makes a jam session any different. Neither are about it being a house of prayer. If the money changers were doing something that honored God, Jesus would not have been angry.
It's not like we are talking about a praise and worship jam session.
For you naysayers: Look up worldly, look up ungodly in Strong's. Look at the Greek and Hebrew meanings. You will have a much better idea of the perspective I am coming from.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 7:12:22 PM
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Zhi
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The temple isn't a place anymore, it's us. When the curtain was torn in two between the people and the Holy of Holies, the time of God living in a building made by man was over. That's why we can worship in a gym, or someone's house, or a beautiful cathedral, and it's all valid.
Furthermore, the moneychangers were stealing/extorting in the temple yards. No one is suggesting that illegal activity, or activity that violates the laws of God, should be taking place in church buildings.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 7:19:50 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
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Well, if someone gets drunk, that violates God's law.
Temple:
1) sacred, consecrated to the deity, pertaining to God
a) sacred Scriptures, because inspired by God, treating of divine things and therefore to be devoutly revered
Church:
1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
b) the assembly of the Israelites
c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
d) in a Christian sense
1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
Both are still sacred. Honky tonking in a church is still defilement.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 7:46:48 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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Where in the New Testament does it say buildings used to hold church services are, in and of themselves, holy?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 7:52:30 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Where in the New Testament does it say buildings used to hold church services are, in and of themselves, holy?
I don't know that it does specifically. The idea is exampled. Many things in Christianity are not specifically addressed, they are exampled. Just because scripture doesn't specify a certain thing in black and white, does not mean we can pretend that we don't have instructions or that we don't have a guided example before us to follow.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 7:56:50 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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All righty, can you give me some examples?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 8:44:04 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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The parables.
Parable of the talents. A lesson on responsibility.
Matt 25:14-30
Obedience
Abraham and Issac
Gen 22:6-13
Humility
Mary washing Jesus' feet
The Prodigal son
That's all I have time for right now.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 8:52:23 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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I am quite familiar with all of those instances, and see no correlation between them and declaring a certain building, or type of building, sacred.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:34:08 PM
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ddave12000
Posts: 77
Joined: 3/7/2006
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I've been trying to read through this thread all day and finally got the chance to...WOW.
DeliverDarling - I know from a previous thread that you have a big problem with alcohol, and I understand that, but now that the alcohol has been eradicated from the event (if it was ever there in the first place) now you have a problem with it because it's a jam with coffee?
For the rest of those who are arguing against this event, the main argument I'm hearing is that nothing you deem unholy can take place in a church building, ever. Where is your biblical proof for this argument? Please don't bring up THE TEMPLE. That building doesn't exist any longer. Please show us scripture that has the rules for what is allowed to take place in a church building. I'm honestly appalled that there is a general sentiment that it's fine and dandy to have all kinds of fund raisers and other events, but it's not okay for some folks to get together to make music. Has it been proven that this man's intentions are bad? Is it a fact he's trying to poison the church with this unholy honky-tonky-ing? (what is that, anyways?) Didn't Jesus say it was the sick who needed a doctor? Isn't the church kind of the hospital in the analogy??
Personally, not knowing any more than we do about the event, I think it sounds great. Maybe some great new faces will show up at your church and learn about Jesus. Maybe they will even come to know Him, despite what appear to be your efforts to keep them out of your church.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:43:07 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
What is the purpose of a church?
To build up any believer that is part of, or visiting, it, and to shine as a light for Christ in the world.
quote:
What example are Christians supposed to be to the secular world?
Love.
quote:
How should these two things co-exist?
By believers connecting to one another in love, and reaching out to non-believers in love.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 10:00:34 PM
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ddave12000
Posts: 77
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
ddave12000,
What is your response to my questions?
Because I don't have time for an indepth response at the moment I will say I agree with Mr. Fribbles. I will respond more later if I can.
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