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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 10:35:37 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4249
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I was reading through and catching up and a thought came to me...
Many churches "host" AA or NA meetings...would this pose a problem for anyone here if your church agreed to host these kinds of meetings?
It seems that opinions differ when it comes to what a church building can host and I was curious if this would be acceptable.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 10:55:23 AM
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DougHorton
Posts: 920
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From: Georgia
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quote:
They wouldn't be received because the owners would be offended that someone used THEIR property for something they didn't want it used for.
Bingo. But it is not pride. It would not be tolerated for a high school football field to be dug up for golf either. Nor would you would not hold a card game in an operating room. Not because of pride, but because that is not what the place is to be used for.
Certain places are set aside for certain purposes.
If you do not have a sanctuary that is sanctified for corporate worship, I can see that you would not understand the issue.
You are perfectly free to have your jam session wherever you like. However, if you try it in some places, like a courtroom or your state's legislative rooms, you might understand the point more clearly after a few days behind bars.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 11:57:56 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16847
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
BTW, it's also YOUR opinion that the waving of socks is acceptable forms of worship. So let's just not be the pot calling the kettle black. You've been arguing all along that I base this on my opinion and not on the Word of God. You base yours on your opinion and don't have scripture to back it up. If you do, please provide it.
Actually I owe you an apology. I realized it this morning, but I had said, "I see how it could be worship." I stand beside that, but I also have to add that I am not in a position to make a determination. My apologies for not adding that already.
Is it worship? I don't know. Neither do you. Satisfied?
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:25:56 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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Definition in Greek of worship from Strong's:
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1) to the Jewish high priests
2) to God
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demons
It would appear that the waving of socks do not apply to worship. It also appears that we as a society have a very broad spectrum in what is considered worship. It also appears that maybe we need to go back and reevaluate what hoiness and honor to God really are.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:26:45 PM
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armydude
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So Strong's defines worship instead of God?
Didn't know that. And yes, that was intended to be sarcastic.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:27:49 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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quote:
So Strong's defines worship instead of God?
I see the sarcasm but I don't get the meaning.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:28:23 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16847
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
No misundertsanting... You spoke of the pride of a church member affecting the eternal salvation. Thinking salvation hangs in balance regarding the action of man is a pride issue all its own and a stumbling block...
John
[
I used the word "affected" with the intention of saying it was a stumbling block, which affects people coming to Christ. I assumed you would understand me. I apologize for assuming so.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:30:15 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I was reading through and catching up and a thought came to me...
Many churches "host" AA or NA meetings...would this pose a problem for anyone here if your church agreed to host these kinds of meetings?
It seems that opinions differ when it comes to what a church building can host and I was curious if this would be acceptable.
I don't see a problem with it. Others may not agree. I don't see a problem with voting, bake sales, rummage sales either though.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:32:23 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16847
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I was reading through and catching up and a thought came to me...
Many churches "host" AA or NA meetings...would this pose a problem for anyone here if your church agreed to host these kinds of meetings?
It seems that opinions differ when it comes to what a church building can host and I was curious if this would be acceptable.
I don't see a problem with it. Others may not agree. I don't see a problem with voting, bake sales, rummage sales either though.
But it's not worship. Why the double standard?
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:41:33 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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Those things are affiliated with the body doing things not intended for worship but for the benefit of the body. A secular jam session in a church does not honor God nor is it intended to honor God. Why can't you see that?
"All thing s are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, yet not all things edify."
Can you really not see the difference here?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:50:55 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16847
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Those things are affiliated with the body doing things not intended for worship but for the benefit of the body. A secular jam session in a church does not honor God nor is it intended to honor God. Why can't you see that?
"All thing s are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, yet not all things edify."
Can you really not see the difference here?
Can you not see that you nor I are the deciding factors here? You say that the jam session (you brought it up, so I'm just responding to you) is not beneficial. You used the word "secular". You know beyond a doubt that secular music will be played there exclusively? I doubt that. You've seemed set against this and you've shifted your reason to whatever is convenient at the time. My point stands. You cannot tell this man's intentions. To say you can is elevating yourself equal with God. Nothing less.
I still say give it a chance. But then again, I don't know the man, nor do I have reason to be disgusted with him.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:53:38 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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quote:
You know beyond a doubt that secular music will be played there exclusively?
Yes!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 12:59:34 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
You've seemed set against this and you've shifted your reason to whatever is convenient at the time. My point stands. You cannot tell this man's intentions. To say you can is elevating yourself equal with God. Nothing less.
Do you follow Todd Bentley or Benny Hinn?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 1:00:57 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16847
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
You know beyond a doubt that secular music will be played there exclusively?
Yes!
How do you know this? He told you that he wouldn't be playing Christian music? If you've brought this up before now, I missed it.
If he didn't bring it up, how do you know?
And you still haven't shown me that there is no benefit to doing this.
So I ask a couple of other questions. How does bingo benefit the body? Money? When Philippians 2:19 says that God will supply all our needs, why do we need to bring other things into the body to do what He said He'd do for us?
As you can tell, any of these things can be deemed to not be beneficial depending on the desire of the person doing so. That's all I see. You don't like it, so you're arguing against it without any desire to see anyone else's perspective.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 1:02:40 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16847
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
You've seemed set against this and you've shifted your reason to whatever is convenient at the time. My point stands. You cannot tell this man's intentions. To say you can is elevating yourself equal with God. Nothing less.
Do you follow Todd Bentley or Benny Hinn?
Never heard of Todd Bentley.
And I've only heard Benny Hinn's voice once. Sounded like a snake charmer to me.
This has to do with the OP how?
You've told us to get back on topic... your turn.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 1:08:32 PM
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deliveredarling
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Go with me here.....
Both are false prophets. How do you know who you will follow?
Do you NOT listen to them speak, not watch them walk, not look at their fruits?
or do you just sit back and follow blindly and wake up in a pit ans say what happened?
We are told to judge the body so we don't get caught up in false teaching and preaching. If we don't judge we do ourselves harm as well as allow for the rest of the body to be harmed as well.
It does not mean we are equivocating ourselves with God. It means we are using the brains He gave us. It's called discernment AD, pure and simple.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 1:25:57 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
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quote:
So now you're equating false prophets with a jam session!?!?!?
No, that's not what I am comparing it to. I'm telling you how I've come to the conclusions that I have. You say I have a double standard... I've used that example to try to get you to see examples in your own life where and how you've done the same thing-by that, meaning, using your own sense of good judgment, that's all.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 7/30/2008 2:06:42 PM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 1:59:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5388
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
I used the word "affected" with the intention of saying it was a stumbling block, which affects people coming to Christ. I assumed you would understand me. I apologize for assuming so.
I understand what you are saying... I don't buy into what you are saying... The salvation of person doesn't hinge on the actions of someone in or out of the church as you stated below... It's in the very capable hands of God... Why of course it's wrong to not reach out to people, but to assume that God's hands are tied because of it is wrong as well...
You said:
How can the pride of a church member affect the eternal salvation of anyone? When the church member says, "I don't approve of this because I don't see the outreach in it." If there's a chance that someone can be reached, I say give it a chance. Or we could let pride get in the way and keep it from happening. There's no guarantee that they'll get another chance.
John
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 2:37:43 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10065
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
I used the word "affected" with the intention of saying it was a stumbling block, which affects people coming to Christ. I assumed you would understand me. I apologize for assuming so.
I understand what you are saying... I don't buy into what you are saying... The salvation of person doesn't hinge on the actions of someone in or out of the church as you stated below... It's in the very capable hands of God... Why of course it's wrong to not reach out to people, but to assume that God's hands are tied because of it is wrong as well...
You said:
How can the pride of a church member affect the eternal salvation of anyone? When the church member says, "I don't approve of this because I don't see the outreach in it." If there's a chance that someone can be reached, I say give it a chance. Or we could let pride get in the way and keep it from happening. There's no guarantee that they'll get another chance.
John
John I don't think you understand what dude is saying yet. Let's try a hypothetical scerario. Keep in mind all of this is fiction and not saying anything personal.
First lets assume you are lost.
Lets assume God has decided to give you one more chance to be saved. And it is at a function at a church that all church members don't agree with. I am one of the one's that does not agree.
I let "me" whether through pride or other reasons get i the way of this function and prevent it from taking place. You suddenly die without having been saved because you missed your last chance at this function. While only God can grant you Salvation I stood in your way. I did not block God I blocked you. So I am going to be held accountable for that action. I think that is what dude is saying.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 3:03:13 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
I let "me" whether through pride or other reasons get i the way of this function and prevent it from taking place. You suddenly die without having been saved because you missed your last chance at this function. While only God can grant you Salvation I stood in your way. I did not block God I blocked you. So I am going to be held accountable for that action. I think that is what dude is saying.
You have just denied the Sovereignty of God by placing the power of salvation with a person rather than on God. He knows what He is doing. Whether it's your move or mine, He already knows and if that person is going to be saved, neither one of us is going to stand in God's way.
ETA:Rom 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Rom 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 7/30/2008 3:12:53 PM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/30/2008 3:07:31 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 10065
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
I let "me" whether through pride or other reasons get i the way of this function and prevent it from taking place. You suddenly die without having been saved because you missed your last chance at this function. While only God can grant you Salvation I stood in your way. I did not block God I blocked you. So I am going to be held accountable for that action. I think that is what dude is saying.
You have just denied the Sovereignty of God by placing the power of salvation with a person rather than on God. He knows what He is doing. Whether it's your move or mine, He already knows and if that person is going to be saved, neither one of us is going to stand in God's way.
That is not what I said. I plainly said I would NOT be blocking God. It is not in my power to do so. But human nature being what it is I certainly can stand in another human's way. I CAN"T prevent God from granting salvation. I CAN influence another human as to his/her acceptance of that salvation.
_____________________________
Remember: God loves you and I'm trying!
~rogasinger4Him
Body Piercings
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