Commanding God

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CherishedbyGod -> Commanding God (6/28/2008 1:55:48 PM)
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Isaiah 45:11 Can anyone give me any insight on the above verse?

bob97 -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 2:07:49 PM)
Isa 45:11 This is what the LORD says—the Holy One of Israel and your Creator: "Do you question what I do for My children? Do you give Me orders about the work of My hands? NLT Does this help? Bob

LCannon -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 2:28:49 PM)
Verse 11 is said in almost a sarcastic way. The rest of the chapter(vs. 24)concludes His thought, '24 “Only in the Lord, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength...'

BerianAardvark -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 2:43:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Isaiah 45:11 Can anyone give me any insight on the above verse? Woe to him who strives with his Maker!--a worthless piece of broken pottery among other pieces equally worthless [and yet presuming to strive with his Maker]! Shall the clay say to him who fashions it, What do you think you are making? or, Your work has no handles? [Rom. 9:20.] Woe to him [who complains against his parents that they have begotten him] who says to a father, What are you begetting? or to a woman, With what are you in travail? (Isaiah 45:9-10) God says that grief, regret, or distress (woe) will come to those who question His right to do as He pleases with what He has made (the earth itself and the people on it.) Paul used the same image: But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use? What if God, although fully intending to show [the awfulness of] His wrath and to make known His power and authority, has tolerated with much patience the vessels (objects) of [His] anger which are ripe for destruction? (Romans 9:20-22) God is sovereign, and it is not a very good idea to try to convince Him that you know better than He does. Thus says the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Would you question Me about things to come concerning My children, and concerning the work of My hands [would you] command Me? (Isaiah 45:11) Verse 11 would then most probably be read as a question, "Do you ask Me what I purpose far in the future concerning My sons, or do you command Me concerning the work of My hands?" In other words, "What right do you have to question Me?" Hopefully this sheds some light, Tim

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 3:16:39 PM)
Thank you... I guess the KJV is the only version that does not make it appear as if it is a question. (Maybe NKJV) I basically study from the KJV so, obviously due to the whole manuscript thing, etc. things will look different to me. But, God being Who He is, and we being who we are, it does make alot more sense, the verse being put in the form of a question. Especially, in context... Thank you, all three!

LBolt -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 7:37:21 PM)
Try reading in in context with the preceding verses and the verses that follow. You'll see it as well. People have you this verse (WoF) to get God to do and give them what they want.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 8:29:26 PM)
ORIGINAL: LBolt Try reading in in context with the preceding verses and the verses that follow. You'll see it as well. Well, I did..But it was in KJV so it did not make alot of sense. But then I looked at ESV and they show it as a question. I used to be KJV only but I have softened recently[:D] Especially with verses like that. But I do love the KJV People have you this verse (WoF) to get God to do and give them what they want. [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif] And they probably don't even read the KJV. They vasilate as the so-called spirit blows them to the ground[8D]

LBolt -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 8:48:07 PM)
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. When I read this out of the KJV in concert with the other verses it sounds as if an omnipotent, omniscient God is asking finite man to boss Him around...I do see your point. I, too like other translation but tend to be bias towards the KJV. Amen!

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/28/2008 9:38:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LBolt Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. When I read this out of the KJV in concert with the other verses it sounds as if an omnipotent, omniscient God is asking finite man to boss Him around...I do see your point. I, too like other translation but tend to be bias towards the KJV. Amen! [;)] Thanks

phyl2 -> RE: Commanding God (6/29/2008 12:29:38 AM)
It's too bad that neither of the original languages have question marks like we do! There can be some indicators that let us know a question is being asked, but, often there is not.

Bluethread -> RE: Commanding God (6/29/2008 2:29:42 AM)
This could be a rebuke and an exhortation from Adonai. Adonai does wish us to ardently iquire of Him, with all due respect, on a regular basis. When we do not do this, we can often be surprised by the troubles that come. At those times, we then become angry with Adonai and disrespectfully call Him to task. It is like a father whos son calls him from jail and becomes enraged because the father will not bail him out. Then the father answers, "I don't owe you anything. However, if you had insisted on talking to me when you were lounging by the pool and I was working on the fence, I could have kept you out of this trouble."

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/29/2008 2:08:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: phyl2 It's too bad that neither of the original languages have question marks like we do! There can be some indicators that let us know a question is being asked, but, often there is not. Thanks for reminding me...I had forgotten about that...

Ezra -> RE: Commanding God (6/29/2008 2:12:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Isaiah 45:11 Can anyone give me any insight on the above verse? It would appear from the responses thus far that the KJV is being denigrated because it has properly translated this verse. Other versions have changed it into a question, since the idea of "commanding" God is too staggering for mortal men. But this verse would make no sense if it were to be treated as a question. In fact, that turns the whole passage (vv. 11-25) on its head. This portion is speaking of redeemed and restored Israel under Messiah ("In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory" v. 25). The Hebrew word tsavah has been translated as "command" in this verse, but it can also have several other meanings, including to constitute, to enjoin, or to appoint (see Strong's dictionary). On the surface, it may appear that God is inviting men to command Him, but the proper interpretation of this verse is as noted in the Wycliffe Bible Commentary: "Command ye me concerning... Translate, with Delitzsch, commit to me the care of thy sons. The verb "to command", used with the accusative of the person and the preposition "concerning" forms an idiom meaning "commit something to the care of someone". This makes perfect sense when you read the whole verse in context. In Verse 12 God reminds us that He is not only the Creator of all things but He has commanded the "host" or stars of the heavens. Then He reveals to us in verse 13 that Messiah has been raised up by Him in righteousness, and God will direct all His ways. Also that Messiah will build His city Jerusalem, and set free His captive people. This ties in with the revelation in verse 17 "But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end". These are the reasons why Israel may ask God of the things concerning His children (the redeemed ones of Israel), and commit to Him the care of Israel's sons (who are also the work of His hands). Christians today have become so used to adverse criticism of the KJV, and denial of the fact that at a future time Israel shall indeed be redeemed and restored as a kingdom under Christ, that they fail to see that this translation is the most faithful, in not only rendering accurate translations as led by the Spirit, but also in expressing the thought behind the words. Modern translations have actually reversed many statements in the Bible to suit their own whims, and mangled the truth.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/29/2008 2:15:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bluethread This could be a rebuke and an exhortation from Adonai. Adonai does wish us to ardently iquire of Him, with all due respect, on a regular basis. When we do not do this, we can often be surprised by the troubles that come. At those times, we then become angry with Adonai and disrespectfully call Him to task. It is like a father whos son calls him from jail and becomes enraged because the father will not bail him out. Then the father answers, "I don't owe you anything. However, if you had insisted on talking to me when you were lounging by the pool and I was working on the fence, I could have kept you out of this trouble." Wow! Thanks! I needed that reminder! BTW...I hope I did not offend you on the other thread when I made light of your request for people to stop stealing your reward. I am so sorry if I did[&:]

Bluethread -> RE: Commanding God (6/30/2008 2:07:50 AM)
That's fine I was half jokeing anyway. However, I prefer B'ruch Ha Shem(blessed be The Name), giving the credit where it belongs. Or even better expanding on the concept being discussed.

phyl2 -> RE: Commanding God (6/30/2008 3:11:37 AM)
quote: It would appear from the responses thus far that the KJV is being denigrated because it has properly translated this verse. Other versions have changed it into a question, since the idea of "commanding" God is too staggering for mortal men. I didn't see any denigration of the KJV at all in this thread. The simple fact is, the original languages did not have the question mark that we have to use to indicate a question. So, it is not fair to accuse modern translations of "changing" a sentence into a question. You have no proof that it wasn't a question to begin with. It is set in the context of a series of questions to which God responds "I made the earth, and created man upon it." God will do things the way He intends and has chosen to do them, no matter what disbelieving man thinks God should do. Verse 9 speaks of woe to the one who strives with God and questions the way God does things. The question in verse 11 is yet another in a series of examples of how men strive with God. The question does not "turns the whole passage (vv. 11-25) on its head."

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/30/2008 8:39:56 AM)
quote: It would appear from the responses thus far that the KJV is being denigrated because it has properly translated this verse. Other versions have changed it into a question, since the idea of "commanding" God is too staggering for mortal men. I admit, when I first noticed it a number of years ago it did seem quite staggering to me. Thank you for the detailed explanation, Ezra. Sorry, I did not see your reply until this AM....

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Commanding God (6/30/2008 8:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bluethread That's fine I was half jokeing anyway. However, I prefer B'ruch Ha Shem(blessed be The Name), giving the credit where it belongs. Or even better expanding on the concept being discussed. Well? You already have the thread title..."Please stop. You are stealing my reward"[;)]

DougHorton -> RE: Commanding God (8/1/2008 6:09:52 PM)
Try another translation. The New Living Translation might be clearer: This is what the LORD, the Creator and Holy One of Israel, says: "Do you question what I do? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?"

Shrommer -> RE: Commanding God (8/4/2008 5:40:21 PM)
I thought it meant "Tell me to explain to you things about my creation." God delights when we say to Him, "Daddy, tell me about this!" It is a verb in the command form, but it is not a way of bossing God around. The two sections parallel: Ask me about things to come, and ask me about the works of my hands. It could have been expressed: Concerning things to come, command ye me, and Ask me of the works of my hands. Commit to me your quest for scientific knowledge, and I will honor your request. When it comes to the future, don't trust in astrology or divination. When it comes to creation, don't trust in your own experiments and hypotheses. Who are we to try and play God? Instead of our questioning God in defiance, we should come to Him as humble and eager learners, knowing that He is in charge and knows everything. Many New Testament passages where the word "ask" is used are misunderstood in English because the word ask is "just a request" that somebody can honor or refuse. The word "ask" can have an old meaning "demand", which is much more like when we place an order for food at a restaurant, fully expecting to receive what we have ordered. We are not ordering people around, because they have made themselves available to take our order, and maybe even have asked us "May I take your order?" Likewise, God says to us that we should boldly come before His throne (we are in Christ, not in our own name) to ask for help in time of need. The N.T. says things like "We know that we have everything we ask of him," and "Let no man doubt when he asks". John 15:16 is powerful this way.

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