Covenant Spouse/Marriage (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Covenant Spouse/Marriage


The first person you marry - ever
  42% (22)
The first person you marry after accepting Christ
  3% (2)
The person you happen to be married to at the time
  15% (8)
Other
  26% (14)
Not sure
  11% (6)


Total Votes : 52
(last vote on : 11/4/2008 12:46:04 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


Roberta_ -> Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 8:18:06 PM)

Who is the Covenant Spouse and why?

This is a question that was asked in the Remarriage After Divorce, but please do not discuss divorce and remarriage.

Let's just discuss who the covenant spouse is or which marriage is the covenant marriage.

Please state how you voted and feel free to discuss all views.




pbaribeault -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 8:31:59 PM)

I voted "other" --

All marriages are covenants (As are all friendships, family relationships, sibling-in-Christ relationships, employment relationships and just about everybody and everything else that you morally owe some kind of proper behaviour towards.)

Therefore any spouse would be a covenant spouse.

I'm not sure what is implied by the terminology of the covenant marriage or the covenant spouse. Anybody who has a spouse has a covenant with them.




manda59 -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 8:34:34 PM)

What pbaribeault said. The whole blooming lot. [:)]




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 8:38:20 PM)

I had to edit the poll to add "Not sure" for myself.




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 8:41:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

I'm not sure what is implied by the terminology of the covenant marriage or the covenant spouse. Anybody who has a spouse has a covenant with them.


There were some questions as to who the covenant spouse is or which marriage is the covenant marriage. Different people seemed to have differing opinions.

I thought this thread might give us a better understanding of what people are talking about when they say covenant marriage or covenant spouse.




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 9:49:24 PM)

According to scripture it is the first, because God joins it for life:

Malachi 2:13 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. 16 "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." 17 You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"

The man is told that his first wife is still his wife by covenant even after he divorced her. This is because the marriage covenant is joined by God, who is the author of marriage, and lasts for as long as the two who made it live:

Genesis 2:21-24 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark 10: 6-12 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

Romans 7:2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

Since it is for life, the first marriage is still valid for as long as the two who made it live. All subsequent covenants while the spouse lives are therefore invalid since the person making it is not eligible to marry.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”



SealedEternal




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 9:53:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
Since it is for life, the first marriage is still valid for as long as the two who made it live. All subsequent covenants while the spouse lives are therefore invalid since the person making it is not eligible to marry.SealedEternal


We are also a new creation in Christ, so wouldn't that mean that our former lives are done and over with? Our sins are washed away.




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/20/2008 9:58:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: SealedEternal
Since it is for life, the first marriage is still valid for as long as the two who made it live. All subsequent covenants while the spouse lives are therefore invalid since the person making it is not eligible to marry.SealedEternal


We are also a new creation in Christ, so wouldn't that mean that our former lives are done and over with? Our sins are washed away.


Of course not. Being a new creation in Christ means we honor our word, it doesn't give us a license to default on our promises. It means our unrighteous nature is washed away, rather than giving us a license to act unrighteously without repercussions. Having your sins washed away doesn't mean your marriage is washed away with them.

SealedEternal




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 2:09:38 AM)

So even if God did not bring a couple together, He still considers their union to be a covenant?




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 7:51:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

So even if God did not bring a couple together, He still considers their union to be a covenant?


That is correct. God doesn't choose our spouses for us but gives us the free will to do so. He said though that even if a believer is married to an unbeliever they must honor that covenant. Obviously He wouldn't have chosen an unbeliever to be bound with his children which He specifically commanded us not to do, but still He expects us to honor it once it is made.

SealedEternal




becomingwhole -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 8:37:08 AM)

I voted other. I do have my personal beliefs but in my state there is a specific type of marriage called a covenant marriage. This is a marriage where the couple agrees to go to counseling before the marriage, and must apply for this type of marriage certificate.
These marriages are harder to get a divorce from. My older brother and his wife have one and said if they had had a tradional marriage like I do then they would have divorced.
With a covenant marriage, no matter what you can't divorce without a year of counseling. I wanted to add that is what it means here in the south. I do not know how many states have it in the U.S. but I do know the numbers are growing that offer this find of marriage.
Becomingwhole




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 8:40:55 AM)

Hi becomingwhole! That sounds like a great idea!!




LoyalFriend -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 10:05:05 AM)

It's too complex to say that only the first person you marry is your covenant.

If never married Shannon marries Billie who is divorced then Billie only has a covenant with his ex wife. So Billie divorces Shannon who was never married before him and returns to his exwife who is his covenant wife. Now Shannon who has no covenant with Billie goes out and marries Rick who has never been married before. Do Shannon and Billie have a covenant or not or need to divorce too? Get's confusing and God isn't the author of confusion.




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 11:36:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoyalFriend

It's too complex to say that only the first person you marry is your covenant.

If never married Shannon marries Billie who is divorced then Billie only has a covenant with his ex wife. So Billie divorces Shannon who was never married before him and returns to his exwife who is his covenant wife. Now Shannon who has no covenant with Billie goes out and marries Rick who has never been married before. Do Shannon and Billie have a covenant or not or need to divorce too? Get's confusing and God isn't the author of confusion.


It's not confusing at all if you understand that the first person someone marries is their covenant spouse who they are bound to for life as God said, and that all marriages to divorced people are illegitimate extramarital affairs because those people are already bound by covenant to someone else. When man redefined marriage, that is when the confusion came in.

SealedEternal




ta_mosquito -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 5:01:43 PM)

MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE

Please do not turn this into a debate about divorce and remarriage. There are the one-stop threads for that.

This thread is ONLY about who is one's covenant spouse.

While there will be some overlap, the discussion should not be about divorce/remarriage, but about covenant spouses.

Thanks!

Tricia
Forums Moderator

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Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 5:11:00 PM)

I don't understand how two atheists can get married and have some claim that they were put together by God. That doesn't seem like a covenant, it seems more like a contract.




amyk -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 5:44:14 PM)

If one person or both break a covenant, then I am not sure that covenant is still valid. If you break a contract, does that render the contract null and void? God Himself instituted a new covenant for believers, rendering the old one obsolete. So I am not convinced that once in a "covenant marriage" it means that the covenant will never ever be broken for any reason.




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 5:50:30 PM)

However, I do think that when two believers marry, they are in a covenant with each other and God. I don't think that is a contract at all. I'm sorry, I know it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I don't mean to.




dianetavegia -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 5:59:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SealedEternal

According to scripture it is the first, because God joins it for life:

Malachi 2:13 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. 16 "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." 17 You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"

The man is told that his first wife is still his wife by covenant even after he divorced her. This is because the marriage covenant is joined by God, who is the author of marriage, and lasts for as long as the two who made it live:

Genesis 2:21-24 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark 10: 6-12 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

Romans 7:2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

Since it is for life, the first marriage is still valid for as long as the two who made it live. All subsequent covenants while the spouse lives are therefore invalid since the person making it is not eligible to marry.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”



SealedEternal


Yep. Exactly what I would have posted.




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 10:28:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amyk

If one person or both break a covenant, then I am not sure that covenant is still valid. If you break a contract, does that render the contract null and void?


The only way to break a covenant that is for life is to die. If anything other than death could end a marriage covenant then it isn't a lifelong covenant by definition, but scripture says that it is.

SealedEternal




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/21/2008 10:30:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

I don't understand how two atheists can get married and have some claim that they were put together by God. That doesn't seem like a covenant, it seems more like a contract.


God is the author of the institution of marriage, and everyone who enters it are subject to His terms whether they acknowledge His Lordship or not.

SealedEternal




amyk -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/22/2008 3:20:42 PM)

quote:

The only way to break a covenant that is for life is to die. If anything other than death could end a marriage covenant then it isn't a lifelong covenant by definition, but scripture says that it is.


But if you don't do what you promised you would do, haven't you broken the covenant? I'm not saying that every time you fail to love your spouse you should get divorced, but in effect, have you broken the marriage covenant if you fail to love, honor, cherish, etc (whatever you vowed to do) your spouse?




Roberta_ -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/22/2008 3:27:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amyk

quote:

The only way to break a covenant that is for life is to die. If anything other than death could end a marriage covenant then it isn't a lifelong covenant by definition, but scripture says that it is.


But if you don't do what you promised you would do, haven't you broken the covenant? I'm not saying that every time you fail to love your spouse you should get divorced, but in effect, have you broken the marriage covenant if you fail to love, honor, cherish, etc (whatever you vowed to do) your spouse?


I guess you should do what you would do anytime you disobey- repent.




GregandJenny -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/22/2008 6:34:59 PM)

quote:

If one person or both break a covenant, then I am not sure that covenant is still valid. If you break a contract, does that render the contract null and void? God Himself instituted a new covenant for believers, rendering the old one obsolete. So I am not convinced that once in a "covenant marriage" it means that the covenant will never ever be broken for any reason.


This makes me think of a few weddings I have been to. when people are making a covenant for each other, my question is how long is it supposed to last? Many people now of days aren't going into marriage with the notion of it being forever.


G




SealedEternal -> RE: Covenant Spouse/Marriage (6/22/2008 6:42:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GregandJenny

This makes me think of a few weddings I have been to. when people are making a covenant for each other, my question is how long is it supposed to last? Many people now of days aren't going into marriage with the notion of it being forever.


G


Who is the author of the institution itself? Who is Lord over all of creation? Do we get to redefine what this institution is or isn't? In many places homosexuals are changing that definition as well, but can they really do that, or are they deceiving themselves?

Genesis 2:21-24 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

SealedEternal




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