RE: Worship Wars (Full Version)

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SonInMe1 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 6:43:59 PM)

One thing is for sure.

We complain way too much.

Do we need music to worship God? Nope.

I saw a gentleman and his wife in the mall one day who had been going to our small group bible study and he said he left our chuch for another because the praise and worship leader left. He left a good church because the music changed slightly. The music.

Music.

Wow.



stellaluna -> RE: Worship Wars (6/22/2008 11:31:02 AM)

I don't know that this comment goes in this thread, but a local church service is on TV at the moment and I just heard their choir singing a contemporary praise song as though it were a hymn. It was terrible and it sounded like a funeral dirge. [:'(]



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/22/2008 8:39:15 PM)

Stella, jump right in...it's all part of it...so to speak. What could the group do differently to make it better though?

I hear you on seeing new words every week and having a hard time worshiping because of it. Had a similar experience at church today (some new songs...at least new to me). But....it was a good thing. It changed things up so people didn't get so caught up in singing sameo, sameo. Thankfully they were semi-easy to catch onto (somewhat). God definitely moved though....so much so that we didn't take the offering until after NOON (church starts at 10:30 so we're usually out around noonish) & then went on to a short message.



valiant007 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/24/2008 9:57:12 AM)

Hi guys,


Shalom!!


My first post in a long time here, but I would say that I have seen many types of worship, some that just plainly isn't and some that left me weeping.
Worship cannot suddenly turned on like a switch. We have to be 'in the Spirit' as was John on the Isle of Patmos.

Dave Hunt once wrote of 7/11 songs, songs that had seven verses and we sang em eleven times. This does not produce worship, worship cannot be poured onto either a congregation or an individual believer, there has to be a desire, to honour and to exalt Him, and it rises from deep within, and is a response to the Spirit within to the Holy Spirit.

Worship for me, especially since a life changing experience in Israel just a few weeks ago now, the offering of myself completely to Yeshua, entirely, all that I am and have, poured out and lifted up to His praise and to His glory!
I have found a release into dance, which is another expression of worship.

We are not to judge what one person 'does' as worship, unless of course it is going strange and unseemly ways.

[8|]



DaveW -> RE: Worship Wars (6/24/2008 12:16:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

...along with other instruments: (if I can remember what all was played there) organ, piano, violin, oboe, clarinet, . . . oh, I can't remember what all.
Remember that Zwingli (reformer - contemporary with Calvin) said the organ was the enzyme of Ba'al...
quote:

But the basic reason that pastor got removed from that church by The Powers was because of The Nine who didn't like the drums. Oh, they made up other stuff about him, too, but the bottom line was the drums.

Drums. Full of the devil! Evil! Just a bunch of bang-bang-bang, and besides, doesn't the Bible say something about clanging symbols?
I guess their book of Psalms stopped at 149....
quote:

The Nine wanted to bring a group in for a concert of southern gospel music. Now, I'm not a southern gospel fan, and I made a couple jokes about that, but I came to the concert. And to my surprise, I actually enjoyed the evening and very deliberately let that be known -- especially to some of The Nine.
The Blackwood Brothers Quartet of the 60s and early 70s has always been a favorite of mine. One of my favorite members: Billy Blackwood - the drummer.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/24/2008 12:34:19 PM)

Hee-hee-hee! Dave, you're great. Love your humor!



stellaluna -> RE: Worship Wars (6/24/2008 12:56:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daughter_of_faith
Stella, jump right in...it's all part of it...so to speak. What could the group do differently to make it better though?

I think they could have sung the song up to tempo and they probably didn't need an organ. [8|] The song just sounded really sad they way they did it--seriously, like it was being sung at a funeral. Actually, I've heard happier songs at funerals, now that I think about it...

Worship is an interesting topic for me all the way around. I grew up in non-denominational churches (including home churches), a little bit of AoG and some Baptist as well. I'm pretty used to a worship service that includes a variety of instruments, usually a band, and a variety of songs. The first "worship war" I had really heard of happened at my grandmother's baptist church a couple of years back. They decided to have an early traditional service and a later contemporary service. After a few months, the traditional service was so poorly attended that they did away with it all together. Well, my grandmother is 78 and has attended that church since she was born. Literally. She was distraught that things changed so quickly--as were a lot of the older members--and I can understand that for sure. She kept going to services, though, and now she says she's used to it.

I visited my brother's baptist church a few months ago and was interested to see the drum set encapsulated in an enormous clear plastic bubble thingy. The sanctuary wasn't made for rock music, so when they moved the drums in they discovered that drums were all you could hear in there. Now my solution would be to get electronic drums, but they decided to have the giant bubble on the stage. <shrugs> This band thing and contemporary worship are new to his church as well. He loves it, but says a lot of people are threatening to leave.



marcat1702003 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/24/2008 9:13:56 PM)

quote:

Yeah, I have been on the Worship War threads before, and it was interesting: each side stepping on the other, trying to reach for their personal Crown of Holiness -- one side holier because their personal taste only included hymns written before 1960 and the second side holier because they saw the first side as mean-spirited and unaccepting of their contemporary songs. The first side saw the second side's songs as worldly and unintelligent; the second side saw the first side's music as boring and unsingable today.

Personally, I have heard enough of both sides to have a distaste for some of the music on both sides, but why is our "worship" about our own tastes in the first place? Are we going to services in order to satisfy ourselves or to worship? Did anyone ask the L-rd what His taste is in music?


Applause, applause, praise G-d. Amen. I love the old, love the new, but it needs be directed toward G-d rather than toward the people. Our L-rd's taste is in hearts.



iluvatar -> RE: Worship Wars (6/25/2008 9:32:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Now my solution would be to get electronic drums, but they decided to have the giant bubble on the stage.


A good set of electronic drums will cost a couple thousand dollars and still sound like cheesy electronic drums.

-Dan.



stellaluna -> RE: Worship Wars (6/25/2008 9:37:28 AM)

The ones at my church sound awesome!



crankius -> RE: Worship Wars (6/27/2008 1:00:55 AM)

I miss hymnals [sm=crystreams.gif] and wooden pews [sm=crystreams.gif] and it feels Orwellian staring at the big white screen on the wall... must stare at the big white screen... sing the words on the big white screen...


I don't complain though because I am only at church for three hours a week. All the rest of the hours of the week I can sing from hymnals or real sheet music and sit on wood and NOT stare at big white screens on walls. [:)]


Seriously, I hate to think of music being so divisive. It's quite sad.



rivermamma -> RE: Worship Wars (6/27/2008 11:08:42 AM)

Hi
I am new to forums, but this one intrigued me, and I thought I had something to say in this area. I have been "doing" contemporary worship music in my 150-year-old conservative small-town congregation for 6 years now.

These things have happened:
I have become a better musician.
I have more compassion for the people I go to church with.
I don't have to have my way all the time.
my worship of God is deeper and more meaningful (not because I chose and am playing the music, but because of the struggle and pain involved in getting it into the sanctuary.)
God has brought me closer to him throught my personal practice time and has healed some deep hurts that surface as I worship him in practice.
I have learned how to extend grace to those who have wounded me.
I have learned how to present the best modern Christian music in a simple way that I can pull off with excellence.

I was forced at one time to stop by the elders of my church, and it hurt very much. I was the victim of backroom politics and slurs by the pastor. It is all past now. Because I would have to leave my confession to go to a new church, my husband and I decided to stay. God has worked miracles of grace and forgiveness in my life.

I have seen the men who fought me with such vigor have strokes, heart attacks, suffer personal family tragedies and I was able to pray for them.

I can feel Jesus with us as we sing. He is the audience of one (to borrow the expression.)
Don't forget it.



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/27/2008 11:53:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rivermamma

I can feel Jesus with us as we sing. He is the audience of one (to borrow the expression.)
Don't forget it.

Love that expression...used to have a shirt with it on it...might still be around somewhere. But yeah...it is true and we often forget that we're singing/playing for Christ. It isn't for anyone else....just Him....

BTW, welcome to the forums here at CW...hope you enjoy it here!!!



SonInMe1 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/27/2008 8:59:16 PM)

quote:

I don't have to have my way all the time.


Would there be worship wars if we all did this?



pastor79553 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/27/2008 10:44:13 PM)

Worship wars? Never heard of such a thing!!!!! Even Though I am a pastor, I will quote what a muslim friend said to me that I totally agree with. He said, " GOD separated us into different nations, tribes, and languages not so we could fight with one another, but so that we could LEARN from one another." Again I ask, "Worship wars?"



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/29/2008 6:47:39 PM)

Good point, pastor. None of seem like we want to LEARN though. BTW, I'm a teacher so I see this quite a bit of this....but that's another thread.



pastor79553 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/29/2008 8:37:49 PM)

There seem to be only THREE major faiths in the world that profess to worship only the One True and Living GOD. I have studied the teachings of all three. The Jews, Muslims, and Christians are all divided by who Jesus was or is. The Christians, however, seemed to be divided among themselves over this issue.Some say he is GOD in the flesh, but others say that he is literally the son of GOD. But little do people know is that the Apostolic Fathers seen him as a prophet. Fewer still know that Jesus refered to himself twice as a prophet, and was refered to at least 5 times as a prophet by others. The first line in the Gospel of Barnabas states that Jesus is a prophet sent by GOD. How is that for a worship war?



crankius -> RE: Worship Wars (6/29/2008 8:51:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pastor79553

There seem to be only THREE major faiths in the world that profess to worship only the One True and Living GOD. I have studied the teachings of all three. The Jews, Muslims, and Christians are all divided by who Jesus was or is. The Christians, however, seemed to be divided among themselves over this issue.Some say he is GOD in the flesh, but others say that he is literally the son of GOD. But little do people know is that the Apostolic Fathers seen him as a prophet. Fewer still know that Jesus refered to himself twice as a prophet, and was refered to at least 5 times as a prophet by others. The first line in the Gospel of Barnabas states that Jesus is a prophet sent by GOD. How is that for a worship war?


That's not a worship war. That's:

A) Bad doctrine based on verses pulled out of context of the whole of scripture

B) Off topic for this thread



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/29/2008 9:16:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crankius
That's not a worship war. That's:

...Bad doctrine based on verses pulled out of context of the whole of scripture

Amein!!

and amein.



pastor79553 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/29/2008 9:16:57 PM)

My church is not my idol. GOD forbid such things!!!! Look at history. Catholics killing Protestants, and vise versa. It is a worship war. Everyone thinks that there form of worship is correct; especially in the Christian faith where some christians see other christians as heretic. Study your Chirch History. A lot of christian doctrine was decided in 325 at the First Council of Nicaea led by Emporer Constitine. Jesus preached the Law; for without the Law there can be no judgement, for there would be nothing to judge by without it. But people today reject. Read Matt. 5.17-20; 19.16-22. Also, Ps.119.9. Of course, a lot of what Christians do, and say today is based of the writtings of Paul; a man who never spoke with Jesus, but claimed to have met him. What people practice today IS NOT what Jesus taught!



ta_mosquito -> RE: Worship Wars (6/29/2008 9:20:23 PM)

MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE

This thread is about contemporary music vs. hymns and how our churches have dealt with the matter.

Please take other doctrinal topics to other threads.

Thank you!

Tricia
Forums Moderator

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Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.

Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/30/2008 10:54:15 AM)

Thank you, Tricia.

Um, now where were we?



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/30/2008 11:56:02 AM)

I think that one of the reasons they started projecting music was to get people's faces out of their hymnals. It is nice when the written music can be provided, too, but that head-down thang keeps the singing so individualized, separate, me-centered, dark. Getting the people looking up seems to unify the group, bringing about interaction with the leader and others. Just the way it seems to me, anyway.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Worship Wars (6/30/2008 4:04:42 PM)

So... would a good compromise be to put the lyrics AND the notes on the screen? Like, a line at a time?

I wonder if anyone has ever tried that!



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/30/2008 6:37:12 PM)

[:D] Probably not for long!! [:D]



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