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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/21/2009 10:19:39 PM
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Frok
Posts: 27
Joined: 1/24/2009
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I have a friend who I will be having dinner with in a couple nights. He is going to India on mission for about 2 years. I know he is going to ask me for support which I am very willing to do.
Here is my question:
Is it okay to direct part of my tithe to a missionary? I still feel I should give to my local church however I'm thinking of reducing part of my tithe and allocating it to my friend's trip. Should I do that or do you think I should keep paying the same tithe to the church and add my support to him on top of that?
I'm gonna pray over this of course however I am just curious what others think.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2009 1:04:29 AM
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Richard656
Posts: 269
Joined: 5/18/2009
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Just my opinion:
The tithe is God's -- it's up to Him to decide where that part goes.
The offering, which is above and beyond the tithe part, can go where you decide for it to go. Of course, you should pray and let God guide you as to what you should do with it.
So, no, don't reduce your tithe. but give an offering, and you will see that God will continue to provide for your needs. You won't go lacking.
Again, just my opinion...
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2009 12:31:29 PM
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metoo
Posts: 25
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I think it is fine for you to use your tithe. I don't see how giving it to a missionary makes is any less God's. The missionary is using the money to bring God's Word to another nation...fulfilling the Great Commission.
It quite frankly irks me how churches claims the tithe belongs to the church. Show me that in the New Testament! I don't even believe in the tithe anymore. I think it was an Old Testament law and it did not involve money, it only involved giving of crops.
This doesn't mean I do not believe in generous giving. I think giving 10% of your income is a good place to START in your giving. Many Christians feel pretty smug about giving 10% and never consider going above that. I give much more than 10% and most of it goes to missions and some it of goes to my church.
I would give more to my church if they didn't feel that the first 10% belonged to them and if they would support missionaries much, much more it would be better for everyone. Many missionaries get a small portion of their needs from a church or two and then need lots and lots of individuals to support them. Then as people drop off they are stuck somewhere and have a hard time increasing their support.
It absolutely drives me nuts when there is a special offerring for a missionary or other need and it is ALWAYS said that giving to the special need should be "above your tithe to the church". It's ALL God's money!!!
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2009 12:49:05 PM
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Strider33
Posts: 356
Joined: 4/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: metoo
I think it is fine for you to use your tithe. I don't see how giving it to a missionary makes is any less God's. The missionary is using the money to bring God's Word to another nation...fulfilling the Great Commission.
It quite frankly irks me how churches claims the tithe belongs to the church. Show me that in the New Testament! I don't even believe in the tithe anymore. I think it was an Old Testament law and it did not involve money, it only involved giving of crops.
This doesn't mean I do not believe in generous giving. I think giving 10% of your income is a good place to START in your giving. Many Christians feel pretty smug about giving 10% and never consider going above that. I give much more than 10% and most of it goes to missions and some it of goes to my church.
I would give more to my church if they didn't feel that the first 10% belonged to them and if they would support missionaries much, much more it would be better for everyone. Many missionaries get a small portion of their needs from a church or two and then need lots and lots of individuals to support them. Then as people drop off they are stuck somewhere and have a hard time increasing their support.
It absolutely drives me nuts when there is a special offerring for a missionary or other need and it is ALWAYS said that giving to the special need should be "above your tithe to the church". It's ALL God's money!!!
At the basic level, I agree with you: it is all God's money. 10% is a good starting place. The local church has no biblical claim on a person's tithe money. Giving to a missionary is OK, even if it's outside the church, and even if the church ends up with less than 10% of your income.
But I'd like to offer a different take on the original question and your response. One possibility is to try and gain more influence over how the local church spends its income. Many, many local churches are hurting for people to get on the finance committee and help figure out where God wants the church income to go.
Frok,
Maybe you could join either the missions committee or the finance committee of your local church, or maybe jsut influence them a little. Maybe your local church could support your friend as he goes to India! Committee work is seldom fun, but it really needs to be done. I'm assuming that there are such committees, and that it isn't all under control of your local pastor.
In the meantime, ask God whether He wants you to split your tithe between the local church and you missionary friend, or whether He wants you to give on top of your tithe. I think you said you would pray about this, but I just thought I'd express support for your praying.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2009 6:06:30 PM
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metoo
Posts: 25
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
quote:
ORIGINAL: metoo
I think it is fine for you to use your tithe. I don't see how giving it to a missionary makes is any less God's. The missionary is using the money to bring God's Word to another nation...fulfilling the Great Commission.
It quite frankly irks me how churches claims the tithe belongs to the church. Show me that in the New Testament! I don't even believe in the tithe anymore. I think it was an Old Testament law and it did not involve money, it only involved giving of crops.
This doesn't mean I do not believe in generous giving. I think giving 10% of your income is a good place to START in your giving. Many Christians feel pretty smug about giving 10% and never consider going above that. I give much more than 10% and most of it goes to missions and some it of goes to my church.
I would give more to my church if they didn't feel that the first 10% belonged to them and if they would support missionaries much, much more it would be better for everyone. Many missionaries get a small portion of their needs from a church or two and then need lots and lots of individuals to support them. Then as people drop off they are stuck somewhere and have a hard time increasing their support.
It absolutely drives me nuts when there is a special offerring for a missionary or other need and it is ALWAYS said that giving to the special need should be "above your tithe to the church". It's ALL God's money!!!
At the basic level, I agree with you: it is all God's money. 10% is a good starting place. The local church has no biblical claim on a person's tithe money. Giving to a missionary is OK, even if it's outside the church, and even if the church ends up with less than 10% of your income.
But I'd like to offer a different take on the original question and your response. One possibility is to try and gain more influence over how the local church spends its income. Many, many local churches are hurting for people to get on the finance committee and help figure out where God wants the church income to go.
I served on the Trustee Board (handles finances and facility) for six years, two years as chairman. The Trustee Board serves under the Elders and they were not willing to even listen to some of what I wanted to say. I'm not eligible to be an Elder because I am a woman.
Another couple and I took the Crown training to do budget counseling (now called coaching, I believe). We drafted Benevolence Policy so that people who received financial help from the church more than one time would have to go through the counseling so we were just throwing money at a situation but we wanted to help provide accountability and teach people how to handle money. They would let us do the counseling but did not adopt the Benevolence Policy. People, who in my opinion spend their money irresponsibly, continue to get help from the church time after time after time. Bugs me to death! This is a reason I choose to give a lot of money elsewhere.
The financial climate and a few other things is causing me to really examine if I belong in this church. There is one ministry that would probably cease to exist if I left the church and that's the biggest thing that keeps me there.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 10:26:28 AM
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Strider33
Posts: 356
Joined: 4/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Frok
I have a friend who I will be having dinner with in a couple nights. He is going to India on mission for about 2 years. I know he is going to ask me for support which I am very willing to do.
Here is my question:
Is it okay to direct part of my tithe to a missionary? I still feel I should give to my local church however I'm thinking of reducing part of my tithe and allocating it to my friend's trip. Should I do that or do you think I should keep paying the same tithe to the church and add my support to him on top of that?
I'm gonna pray over this of course however I am just curious what others think.
If I were in this situation, I would of course pray as you are doing. And God's response to my prayer could influence my decision both about whether or not to support my friend and also whether or not to reduce my tithe offering to the local church.
With no other information than what you provided, my initial tendency would be to support the missionary friend and to reduce my tithe to the local church. I would still make an attempt, as I said in a response to metoo, to influence my local church in its spending decisions. That influence could be very small, as metoo suggests in her response. And the change in church direction could be too slow to help my friend.
There is one way in which a local church can make better decisions about support than an individual can. A local church can maintain ongoing communications with a supported missionary, and review the decision to support on a periodic basis. Many missionaries go through an agency these days, and some agencies are pretty good at tracking the activities of missionaries to make sure that they are working in accordance with the terms under which they were sent over. Sometimes an agency can be more objective than a friend. At other times friendship is exactly the mechanism God uses to bring about His will.
Missionary agencies and local churches are not immune from the misuse of power. You have to be vigilant and hopefully avoid being overly suspicious of your brothers and sisters..
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 12:05:07 PM
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Richard656
Posts: 269
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: metoo
It quite frankly irks me how churches claims the tithe belongs to the church. Show me that in the New Testament! I don't even believe in the tithe anymore. I think it was an Old Testament law and it did not involve money, it only involved giving of crops.
I don't believe I said anything about the church claiming the 10%, but I do remember Jesus saying give to God what is God's.
And, if memory serves, God commanded a tenth of our INCREASE, which nowadays is the gross amount on your paycheck. Anything over that is considered an offering.
And..."it only involved giving of crops"...see if a church can go to the power company and pay its power bill with corn, or buy Sunday School material with wheat.
Money has taken the place of crops these days. The storehouse is the church treasury, or the bank that the church deposits the money in.
As church members, we made a covenant to be obedient to God and to help support the church both spiritually and financially.
Giving a tithe is part of that obedience.
In our church, we had a problem with finances at one point. It was when we decided to let God run the church and obey His commands that our little church began to grow and prosper.
The tithe is just a small part of it, but a very important one, too.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 12:36:45 PM
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Strider33
Posts: 356
Joined: 4/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard656
quote:
ORIGINAL: metoo
It quite frankly irks me how churches claims the tithe belongs to the church. Show me that in the New Testament! I don't even believe in the tithe anymore. I think it was an Old Testament law and it did not involve money, it only involved giving of crops.
I don't believe I said anything about the church claiming the 10%, but I do remember Jesus saying give to God what is God's.
And, if memory serves, God commanded a tenth of our INCREASE, which nowadays is the gross amount on your paycheck. Anything over that is considered an offering.
And..."it only involved giving of crops"...see if a church can go to the power company and pay its power bill with corn, or buy Sunday School material with wheat.
Money has taken the place of crops these days. The storehouse is the church treasury, or the bank that the church deposits the money in.
As church members, we made a covenant to be obedient to God and to help support the church both spiritually and financially.
Giving a tithe is part of that obedience.
In our church, we had a problem with finances at one point. It was when we decided to let God run the church and obey His commands that our little church began to grow and prosper.
The tithe is just a small part of it, but a very important one, too.
Yes, Jesus did teach about giving to God what is God's. The context, recall, was when some people asked him a trick question in order to trap him. The question they asked was whether people should or should not pay taxes to Ceasar. The trap was that if Jesus said yes, they could accuse him of being against the people. But if he said no, they could accuse him of being a subversive against Roman rule.
All this has little to do with the tithe. And it has little to do with what was asked, in this subthread. That question is whether someone who wants to support a missionary can do so out of the 10% he's reserving for tithe. It isn't a question here of giving to God's purposes or not, but a question of whether the donor can choose recipients of the 10% that are outside the local church. As far as I'm concerned, giving to a missionary is giving to God, provided the missionary is doing God's will.
As far as transforming a law concerning crops into a law concerning money, you can advance a very practical reason for doing that. But where's the scripture that supports changing the law in this way? And where's the scripture that says that our relationship to our local church is the same as the Isrealites' relationship to the temple or the Levites?
PS: I'm glad you decided to let God run your church. I hope and pray that, as you make decisions that implement God's will, you discern God's will correctly.
< Message edited by Strider33 -- 5/23/2009 12:45:54 PM >
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 3:35:51 PM
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Richard656
Posts: 269
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard656
quote:
ORIGINAL: metoo
It quite frankly irks me how churches claims the tithe belongs to the church. Show me that in the New Testament! I don't even believe in the tithe anymore. I think it was an Old Testament law and it did not involve money, it only involved giving of crops.
I don't believe I said anything about the church claiming the 10%, but I do remember Jesus saying give to God what is God's.
And, if memory serves, God commanded a tenth of our INCREASE, which nowadays is the gross amount on your paycheck. Anything over that is considered an offering.
And..."it only involved giving of crops"...see if a church can go to the power company and pay its power bill with corn, or buy Sunday School material with wheat.
Money has taken the place of crops these days. The storehouse is the church treasury, or the bank that the church deposits the money in.
As church members, we made a covenant to be obedient to God and to help support the church both spiritually and financially.
Giving a tithe is part of that obedience.
In our church, we had a problem with finances at one point. It was when we decided to let God run the church and obey His commands that our little church began to grow and prosper.
The tithe is just a small part of it, but a very important one, too.
Yes, Jesus did teach about giving to God what is God's. The context, recall, was when some people asked him a trick question in order to trap him. The question they asked was whether people should or should not pay taxes to Ceasar. The trap was that if Jesus said yes, they could accuse him of being against the people. But if he said no, they could accuse him of being a subversive against Roman rule.
All this has little to do with the tithe. And it has little to do with what was asked, in this subthread. That question is whether someone who wants to support a missionary can do so out of the 10% he's reserving for tithe. It isn't a question here of giving to God's purposes or not, but a question of whether the donor can choose recipients of the 10% that are outside the local church. As far as I'm concerned, giving to a missionary is giving to God, provided the missionary is doing God's will.
I guess that's between that person and God. If it's ok with God, then the person will have peace about it.
If it's not, well, the Holy Spirit will soon convict that person and if they listen they will know what to do next.
quote:
As far as transforming a law concerning crops into a law concerning money, you can advance a very practical reason for doing that. But where's the scripture that supports changing the law in this way? And where's the scripture that says that our relationship to our local church is the same as the Isrealites' relationship to the temple or the Levites?
Ok...next time you attend church, take a bushel of corn for your tithe, and see if they will take it.
When you became a member of your church, did you not make a promise before them and God to help support that church (and the body of Christ) in whatever way you should, both spiritually and financially?
quote:
PS: I'm glad you decided to let God run your church. I hope and pray that, as you make decisions that implement God's will, you discern God's will correctly.
Thank you. But it wasn't just me. It had to be one mind and one accord for the whole church.
And that's what happened.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 3:39:46 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10995
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Frok
I have a friend who I will be having dinner with in a couple nights. He is going to India on mission for about 2 years. I know he is going to ask me for support which I am very willing to do.
Here is my question:
Is it okay to direct part of my tithe to a missionary? I still feel I should give to my local church however I'm thinking of reducing part of my tithe and allocating it to my friend's trip. Should I do that or do you think I should keep paying the same tithe to the church and add my support to him on top of that?
I'm gonna pray over this of course however I am just curious what others think.
If I had to make the decision, I would not reduce the amount given to your church (strict 10% or other set amount). I think the majority of your gifts should go to the place that feeds you spiritually, through which you find support and encouragement and spiritual growth. Your main fountain of spiritual nourishment, if you will. "The worker deserves his wages" - and your local church deserves its share of your abundance. To reduce it is to punish them.
So I'd consider giving over and above what you give to your church.
_____________________________
LibriVox: acoustical liberation of books in the public domain
(Avatar: Turkeys are all saying "Moo")
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 4:47:50 PM
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Strider33
Posts: 356
Joined: 4/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard656
quote:
As far as transforming a law concerning crops into a law concerning money, you can advance a very practical reason for doing that. But where's the scripture that supports changing the law in this way? And where's the scripture that says that our relationship to our local church is the same as the Isrealites' relationship to the temple or the Levites?
Ok...next time you attend church, take a bushel of corn for your tithe, and see if they will take it.
I'm not going to do that. I don't grow corn. And our food pantry would be delighted to accept a bushel of fresh corn and make good use of it! My church isn't going to check up on me to see whether I'm putting in 10% or not, either.
quote:
When you became a member of your church, did you not make a promise before them and God to help support that church (and the body of Christ) in whatever way you should, both spiritually and financially?
Our church doesn't have a formal membering ceremony as such, although some people choose to make a formal declaration. I do feel as though I want to support God's work both in this local church and elsewhere. I've adopted 10% as a convenient rule of thumb, but I don't believe that the Bible's command in regard to tithes applies to New Testament believers. 10% is neither a lower limit nor an upp limit.
I support the church through volunteer efforts, as do many, many of our members. Nobody checks up on each other to make sure that each person is doing his or her fair share.
Nobody except God, that is. And that's between each person and God.
quote:
quote:
PS: I'm glad you decided to let God run your church. I hope and pray that, as you make decisions that implement God's will, you discern God's will correctly.
Thank you. But it wasn't just me. It had to be one mind and one accord for the whole church.
And that's what happened.
Yes. I meant "you plural" even though I didn't say it.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2009 5:06:29 PM
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Richard656
Posts: 269
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
I'm not going to do that. I don't grow corn. And our food pantry would be delighted to accept a bushel of fresh corn and make good use of it! My church isn't going to check up on me to see whether I'm putting in 10% or not, either.
Obviously, you don't understand what I'm saying. If you think tithes are just for crops, then take some of whatever you grow and offer it for your tithe. See what happens.
Money today has taken the place of crops as a bartering tool. That's what I'm talking about.
And I don't think church leaders should check up on people in that regard. If I attended a church that did that, I would leave in a heartbeat.
quote:
Our church doesn't have a formal membering ceremony as such, although some people choose to make a formal declaration. I do feel as though I want to support God's work both in this local church and elsewhere. I've adopted 10% as a convenient rule of thumb, but I don't believe that the Bible's command in regard to tithes applies to New Testament believers. 10% is neither a lower limit nor an upp limit.
Point is: When you desire to become a member of a church, formally or not, you should also have the desire to support it in any way you can, including financially.
What if everyone in the church decided to support a missionary instead of give to the church?
How long would the church last financially? They sure can't pay the electric bill with a bushel of wheat, can they?
quote:
I support the church through volunteer efforts, as do many, many of our members. Nobody checks up on each other to make sure that each person is doing his or her fair share.
Nobody except God, that is. And that's between each person and God.
As it should be. And I never said anything to the contrary.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/24/2009 12:02:14 AM
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Strider33
Posts: 356
Joined: 4/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard656
quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
I'm not going to do that. I don't grow corn. And our food pantry would be delighted to accept a bushel of fresh corn and make good use of it! My church isn't going to check up on me to see whether I'm putting in 10% or not, either.
Obviously, you don't understand what I'm saying. If you think tithes are just for crops, then take some of whatever you grow and offer it for your tithe. See what happens.
Money today has taken the place of crops as a bartering tool. That's what I'm talking about.
And I don't think church leaders should check up on people in that regard. If I attended a church that did that, I would leave in a heartbeat.
Equally obviously, you don't understand what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that the Old Testament laws on tithing were adapted for an agrarian society, where wealth was derived from land. The Levites, unlike the other tribes, were not given a portion of the land as part of their inheritance. Instead, they were supported by the tithes that came from the other tribes. Society has changed, and peoples lives have changed. I agree. And what God is commanding you and me is not what God was commanding the children of Israel in the promised land.
God has some universal unchanging principles. Giving is one of them. 10% isn't one of them, any more than tithing in crops is one of them.
It's not that I'm encouraging people to be stingy in their giving. It's just that a mechanical rule like the 10% rule doesn't match the New Covenant relationship between God and man. Godly stewardship of the wealth God has put in one's hands is not a simple matter of setting aside 10% to be used for God's purposes. Some people should be putting in more than 10%. Others should be paying their electric bill, their kids school needs, or just paying down their credit card balances before they even worry about supporting their local church.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/24/2009 11:23:40 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2244
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
How do you distinguish between the validity of these laws and tithing?
Greetings,
In the place where I work is a subscription service that uses independent contractors,
So Out of curiosity by my own experiences with tithing...
I went and took some courses to the learn MS Access data base,
So I created a data base based on those accounts who offered gratuity; as opposed those who did not
I actually started this before the crisis... in the first place... not knowing...
Therefore I was already supplying information and kept on imputing 2 years worth of info into the database.... going back before the current crisis and compared that to the giving after the crisis
The Amazing thing I discovered when I quarried certain information.... is that out of all those accounts who gave to their independent carriers during the year or at the holidays that when the crisis hit we only lost 5 out of the 250 stopped the service... and 2 passed away and 3 out of the 5 who stopped the service sold their houses very quickly
.. and out of the other 200 who offered nothing.. even so much as a thank you... 75 were lost or stopped the service and 50 of those 75 are in the process selling their homes to this day and only 2 homes were sold... and 3 passed away.
quote:
How do you distinguish between the validity of tithing?
I had no way of knowing if the remaining 125 who did not give visibly to there carrier gave elsewhere.... but According to the numbers I did have in example above
.. It seems givers were blessed.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2009 9:19:12 AM
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Simway
Posts: 176
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Much has been said here . As I understand your question, you were looking for peoples experiences with having tithed. I realize your post was moved to a page all it's own which is fine. So that being said, our giving has been a real blessing beyond anything we could think possible. We have seen God work in many ways to " repay " if that is what one wants to call it. We do what we feel God wants us to do, as for how the money is managed, that is the responsiablity of those who handle the money. They are the ones who have to answer to God, not us. So I would just say do what God ask you to do, and you will be blessed.
Simway
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2009 9:27:29 AM
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Richard656
Posts: 269
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard656
quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
I'm not going to do that. I don't grow corn. And our food pantry would be delighted to accept a bushel of fresh corn and make good use of it! My church isn't going to check up on me to see whether I'm putting in 10% or not, either.
Obviously, you don't understand what I'm saying. If you think tithes are just for crops, then take some of whatever you grow and offer it for your tithe. See what happens.
Money today has taken the place of crops as a bartering tool. That's what I'm talking about.
And I don't think church leaders should check up on people in that regard. If I attended a church that did that, I would leave in a heartbeat.
Equally obviously, you don't understand what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that the Old Testament laws on tithing were adapted for an agrarian society, where wealth was derived from land. The Levites, unlike the other tribes, were not given a portion of the land as part of their inheritance. Instead, they were supported by the tithes that came from the other tribes. Society has changed, and peoples lives have changed. I agree. And what God is commanding you and me is not what God was commanding the children of Israel in the promised land.
God has some universal unchanging principles. Giving is one of them. 10% isn't one of them, any more than tithing in crops is one of them.
It's not that I'm encouraging people to be stingy in their giving. It's just that a mechanical rule like the 10% rule doesn't match the New Covenant relationship between God and man. Godly stewardship of the wealth God has put in one's hands is not a simple matter of setting aside 10% to be used for God's purposes. Some people should be putting in more than 10%. Others should be paying their electric bill, their kids school needs, or just paying down their credit card balances before they even worry about supporting their local church.
I understand what you're saying.
I just want to say that whatever you purpose in your heart to give, that's what you should give, no less.
I've tithed at least 10% for quite a few years now, even when my power bill needed to be paid, or groceries needed to be bought. But because I purposed in my heart to give at least 10%, and have done so, God has seen fit to make sure my power bill was paid and I had food to eat.
God said "Test me, and see what I will do". I have. And He has outgiven me every time.
Whatever you put in is between you and God. But whatever you decide to give, don't go back on your commitment.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2009 10:02:37 AM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 716
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I would not reduce the amount given to your church (strict 10% or other set amount). I think the majority of your gifts should go to the place that feeds you spiritually, through which you find support and encouragement and spiritual growth. Your main fountain of spiritual nourishment, if you will. "The worker deserves his wages" - and your local church deserves its share of your abundance.
Totally agree!!
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2009 10:14:13 AM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 716
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Some people should be putting in more than 10%. Others should be paying their electric bill, their kids school needs, or just paying down their credit card balances before they even worry about supporting their local church.
As a person who tithes  . I agree that some people should give more than 10%(or above and beyond the tithe) but your second point is exactly why I believe tithe is relevant today. People who don't believe tithe is a NT command say they give what is of their heart, yet, when times get rough or if bills are to be paid that takes precedent over giving to God first. Giving a tenth of our increase "off the top" keeps us in remembrance of God and acknowledges (thru that, for many people, sacrificial offering) that it is because of God's goodness that we have anything to begin with, He alone is our provider. It's a trust issue which states, "I believe God is going to take care of me" if I take care of what is His, first!!
No need to ask me for scriptural support, this thread is full of scriptural support, for and against 
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2009 10:23:05 AM
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Richard656
Posts: 269
Joined: 5/18/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
quote:
Some people should be putting in more than 10%. Others should be paying their electric bill, their kids school needs, or just paying down their credit card balances before they even worry about supporting their local church.
As a person who tithes . I agree that some people should give more than 10%(or above and beyond the tithe) but your second point is exactly why I believe tithe is relevant today. People who don't believe tithe is a NT command say they give what is of their heart, yet, when times get rough or if bills are to be paid that takes precedent over giving to God first. Giving a tenth of our increase "off the top" keeps us in remembrance of God and acknowledges (thru that, for many people, sacrificial offering) that it is because of God's goodness that we have anything to begin with, He alone is our provider. It's a trust issue which states, "I believe God is going to take care of me" if I take care of what is His, first!!
No need to ask me for scriptural support, this thread is full of scriptural support, for and against
I agree.
If I gave on what I had left after taxes and bills, I would be doing good to put in $1.00 at a time.
The first fruits are what we should give, and, on our paychecks, the firstfruits is the gross amount - before Caesar gets his.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/29/2009 3:32:30 AM
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Markie51
Posts: 26
Joined: 4/10/2009
Status: offline
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Dear Rolling,
The Bible tells of two instances, prior to the setting up of the Law covenant, in which a tenth part of possessions was paid to God or to his representative. The first of these was on the occasion when Abraham gave Melchizedek one tenth of the spoils of his victory over Chedorlaomer and his allies. (Genesis 14:18-20) The second case concerned Jacob, who vowed at Bethel to give one tenth of his substance to God. (Genesis 28:20-22) These two accounts, however, are merely instances of voluntarily giving one tenth. There is no record to the effect that Abraham or Jacob commanded their descendants to follow such examples, thereby establishing a religious practice, custom, or law.
Later, Jehovah gave Israel tithing laws for a definite purpose, apparently involving the use of two tenths (some scholars believe in only one) of their annual income-except Sabbath years. (Leviticus 25:1-12) Such tithes were in addition to the firstfruits that they were under obligation to offer.-Exodus 23:19; 34:26.
The first tithe, consisted of the produce of the land, fruit trees and increase of flocks and herds, was given to the Levites since they had no inheritance but were devoted to the service of the sanctuary. (Leviticus 27:30-32; Numbers 18:21, 24) The Levites, in turn, gave of what they received to the Aaronic priesthood for their support.-Numbers 18:25-29.
A second tenth was set aside each year for purposes other than the direct support of the priesthood-although the Levites shared in it. Normally it was used and enjoyed in a large measure by the Israelite families for sustenance when assembling together at the national festivals. When the distance to an assembly was too great for a burdensome transport, the material tithe was allowed to be converted into money for the appropriated tithe. (Deuteronomy 12:4-7, 11, 17, 18; 14:22-27) Then, at the end of every third and sixth years of the seven-year sabbatical cycle, this tithe was set aside for the Levites, alien residents, widows, and fatherless boys in the local community.-Deuteronomy 14:28, 29; 26:12.
Such tithing was not a burdensome arrangement because they were rewarded through crop and stock increase and thus were prosperous. However, under the Law, there was no penalty for failing to tithe. Rather, Jehovah placed the people under a strong moral obligation. Any tithe withheld was looked upon as something stolen from God.-Malachi 3:7-9.
Today, Christians are not commanded to tithe, because God himself put an end to the Mosaic Law, with its tithing arrangement, nailing it to Jesus’ torture stake. (Colossians 2:13, 14) Furthermore, Jehovah God well knows our circumstances and our limitations. He values the sacrifices, great or small, that his servants offer willingly. He does not expect that we give all the same amount, but only according to what a person has. (2 Corinthians 8:12) What make our service, monetary donations and other contributions acceptable to Him is if it is done joyfully and wholeheartedly.-2 Corinthians 9:7;
Colossians 3:23.
Markie51
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/29/2009 7:32:11 AM
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Strider33
Posts: 356
Joined: 4/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Markie51
Dear Rolling,
The Bible tells of two instances, prior to the setting up of the Law covenant, in which a tenth part of possessions was paid to God or to his representative. The first of these was on the occasion when Abraham gave Melchizedek one tenth of the spoils of his victory over Chedorlaomer and his allies. (Genesis 14:18-20) The second case concerned Jacob, who vowed at Bethel to give one tenth of his substance to God. (Genesis 28:20-22) These two accounts, however, are merely instances of voluntarily giving one tenth. There is no record to the effect that Abraham or Jacob commanded their descendants to follow such examples, thereby establishing a religious practice, custom, or law.
Later, Jehovah gave Israel tithing laws for a definite purpose, apparently involving the use of two tenths (some scholars believe in only one) of their annual income-except Sabbath years. (Leviticus 25:1-12) Such tithes were in addition to the firstfruits that they were under obligation to offer.-Exodus 23:19; 34:26.
The first tithe, consisted of the produce of the land, fruit trees and increase of flocks and herds, was given to the Levites since they had no inheritance but were devoted to the service of the sanctuary. (Leviticus 27:30-32; Numbers 18:21, 24) The Levites, in turn, gave of what they received to the Aaronic priesthood for their support.-Numbers 18:25-29.
A second tenth was set aside each year for purposes other than the direct support of the priesthood-although the Levites shared in it. Normally it was used and enjoyed in a large measure by the Israelite families for sustenance when assembling together at the national festivals. When the distance to an assembly was too great for a burdensome transport, the material tithe was allowed to be converted into money for the appropriated tithe. (Deuteronomy 12:4-7, 11, 17, 18; 14:22-27) Then, at the end of every third and sixth years of the seven-year sabbatical cycle, this tithe was set aside for the Levites, alien residents, widows, and fatherless boys in the local community.-Deuteronomy 14:28, 29; 26:12.
Such tithing was not a burdensome arrangement because they were rewarded through crop and stock increase and thus were prosperous. However, under the Law, there was no penalty for failing to tithe. Rather, Jehovah placed the people under a strong moral obligation. Any tithe withheld was looked upon as something stolen from God.-Malachi 3:7-9.
Today, Christians are not commanded to tithe, because God himself put an end to the Mosaic Law, with its tithing arrangement, nailing it to Jesus’ torture stake. (Colossians 2:13, 14) Furthermore, Jehovah God well knows our circumstances and our limitations. He values the sacrifices, great or small, that his servants offer willingly. He does not expect that we give all the same amount, but only according to what a person has. (2 Corinthians 8:12) What make our service, monetary donations and other contributions acceptable to Him is if it is done joyfully and wholeheartedly.-2 Corinthians 9:7;
Colossians 3:23.
Markie51
Excellent summary! This is the best response I've seen since I started reading this one stop thread. I never went back and read all the earlier responses, but I believe your summary would stack up well against them, too.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/29/2009 4:29:47 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
quote:
Jehovah God well knows our circumstances and our limitations
Great point! as He's all-knowing--having paved the way before us well before our existence. Unfortunately, we as His children fail to believe that He is limitless so, instead of giving Him the "first of our fruits" we expect Him to understand our limitations and do what we have to do before giving Him the "willing" what's left over.
IOW, we want Him to understand that we have bills due--now and we'll get to the offering later. He doesn't want to play second fiddle, He wants to be first, above all. If I could just get that thru my thick head    
Since committing to tithe in the late 70s, I've never had to skip or be late paying a single bill, never missed a meal, and have been sustained through being out of work twice - the last time 3 years ago which resulted in a third cut in salary at my next job AND acquiring a $640 per month medical insurance. When you give your wallet to God, He handles it much better than you can. And it allows you to do what Jesus commanded - to not worry about tomorrow or necessities because God can be trusted to care for you.
People say they want to see the hand of God on their life. There's no better way than to trust Him with finances.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 5/29/2009 4:38:15 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 716
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Since committing to tithe in the late 70s, I've never had to skip or be late paying a single bill, never missed a meal, and have been sustained through being out of work twice - the last time 3 years ago which resulted in a third cut in salary at my next job AND acquiring a $640 per month medical insurance. When you give your wallet to God, He handles it much better than you can. And it allows you to do what Jesus commanded - to not worry about tomorrow or necessities because God can be trusted to care for you.
People say they want to see the hand of God on their life. There's no better way than to trust Him with finances.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2009 9:59:53 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1548
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard656
I don't believe I said anything about the church claiming the 10%, but I do remember Jesus saying give to God what is God's.
There are numerous ways to give to God what is God's other than the local church.
quote:
And, if memory serves, God commanded a tenth of our INCREASE, which nowadays is the gross amount on your paycheck. Anything over that is considered an offering.
My paycheck is not INCREASE. It is a wage that is given to me in exchange for the work I perform.
If my company paid me to do nothing, that would be INCREASE
quote:
Money has taken the place of crops these days.
Incorrect...Money existed in the OT, yet it was never tithed
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The storehouse is the church treasury, or the bank that the church deposits the money in.
Once again, incorrect. The storehouse in Mal 3, is just that, a physical storehouse to hold grains and crops. There is no biblical evidence that the term storehouse meant the local church
quote:
As church members, we made a covenant to be obedient to God and to help support the church both spiritually and financially. Giving a tithe is part of that obedience.
That is correct. However, the NT command for that support is to give as the Holy Spirit leads.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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