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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 3:43:59 PM
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jbbaab44
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How can a stinky attitude be a part of God's will? You can't be in his will by only doing part of what he asks from you. There is no support in scripture that says a poor attitude while doing what he asks is being in his will. Can you do what God asks with a bad attitude, YES! Should you obey him even if you have a bad attitude, YES! Hopefully that will change, but you are not in God's will until it does. If Jesus Christ did not exercise his mission on earth with a bad attitude, then why is it okay if we do?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 3:48:08 PM
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jbbaab44
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A good heart will always do good works. A bad heart sometimes makes the choice to do what he is told or not to do what he is told. but doing what he's told does not make the bad heart OK.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 4:04:37 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
How can a stinky attitude be a part of God's will? You can't be in his will by only doing part of what he asks from you. There is no support in scripture that says a poor attitude while doing what he asks is being in his will. Can you do what God asks with a bad attitude, YES! Should you obey him even if you have a bad attitude, YES! Hopefully that will change, but you are not in God's will until it does. If Jesus Christ did not exercise his mission on earth with a bad attitude, then why is it okay if we do?
If your claim is true, when my wife is in a bad mood, then she might as well be having an affair. Or if I wake up cranky from a headache, back pain, and an upset stomach, then I've lost my salvation and am in danger of hell.
Show me anywhere that feelings, emotions, attitude, or mood is a requirement for salvation, maintaining salvation, or required for God accepting obedience. It's that misconception that has made countless Christian constantly afraid of their relationship with God - and the notion that cheefulness is required before a gift is acceptable to God, the verse does not say that.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 4:08:30 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
A good heart will always do good works. A bad heart sometimes makes the choice to do what he is told or not to do what he is told. but doing what he's told does not make the bad heart OK.
I'm not sure what your definition of "bad heart" is, but here is the passage I referred to:
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
(Matthew 21)
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 4:16:53 PM
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jbbaab44
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I guess from your point of view it's OK with God that we have a bad heart.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 4:22:38 PM
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jbbaab44
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
This passage says that he repented. Why are you arguing this with me? Repentance is from the heart. You cannot truly repent without changing your heart.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 4:35:30 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
This passage says that he repented. Why are you arguing this with me? Repentance is from the heart. You cannot truly repent without changing your heart.
Where does it say he was dancing in the street?
I repeat:
Show me anywhere that feelings, emotions, attitude, or mood is a requirement for salvation, maintaining salvation, or required for God accepting obedience. It's that misconception that has made countless Christian constantly afraid of their relationship with God - and the notion that cheefulness is required before a gift is acceptable to God, the verse does not say that.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 5:00:07 PM
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jbbaab44
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I repeat:
Show me anywhere that feelings, emotions, attitude, or mood is a requirement for salvation, maintaining salvation, or required for God accepting obedience. It's that misconception that has made countless Christian constantly afraid of their relationship with God - and the notion that cheefulness is required before a gift is acceptable to God, the verse does not say that.
Ephesians 5:9
for the fruit of the Spirit is in ALL goodness, righteousness, and truth.
Galatians 5:22
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 5:07:49 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I repeat:
Show me anywhere that feelings, emotions, attitude, or mood is a requirement for salvation, maintaining salvation, or required for God accepting obedience. It's that misconception that has made countless Christian constantly afraid of their relationship with God - and the notion that cheefulness is required before a gift is acceptable to God, the verse does not say that.
Ephesians 5:9
for the fruit of the Spirit is in ALL goodness, righteousness, and truth.
Galatians 5:22
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control
NONE of those are about feelings, emotions, attitude, or mood. A believer can do all those, have a right relationship with Jesus, be full of the Holy Spirit and not "feel" any special way. Even the passage that states God loves a cheerful giver does not say He rejects those that aren't cheerful - in fact, that was but a portion of Paul's exhortation that the Corinthians share with those in another country.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 5:44:33 PM
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jbbaab44
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It's unfortunate that you think it is OK to be angry with God when you give.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2008 5:52:16 PM
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jbbaab44
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hey look. you've taken my point of view this whole time and have twisted it the same way. When i've said the tithe is under the fulfilled mosaic law, you've implied that i'm throwing out the whole bible.
When i've stated that cheefulness is a requirement of giving, you've implied that i am saying we shouldn't give if we don't feel like it.
You are the one that uses these tactics. I am just mimicking you.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 8:51:58 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
When i've stated that cheefulness is a requirement of giving, you've implied that i am saying we shouldn't give if we don't feel like it.
I've shown that CHEERFULNESS or mood or other emotion is not a requirement for anything. You may not like it, but it's not. And when the term "cheerfulness" was used, it was in connection to voluntary promises to support believers in a foreign country. You may no like it, but it is.
You seem to have a neat script to disprove/prove some things and when you are shown they aren't quite that, you get snippy and distort what I said.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 8:57:53 AM
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jbbaab44
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So our attitude is not important to giving, but making sure we meet the outwardly goal is important. That just blows my mind that you believe that.
Matthew 23:26
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:05:38 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
So our attitude is not important to giving, but making sure we meet the outwardly goal is important. That just blows my mind that you believe that.
Matthew 23:26
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying or else you have a poor grasp of scripture.
That verse does not address emotional state or mood. It deals with state. You can be a thoroughly happy, cheerful, giddy, and loved by all who know you, but still be corrupt inside. Spiritual corruption/death is not an emotional state.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:10:17 AM
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jbbaab44
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your heart attitude is not an outward expression, it is an inward state. smiling, or laughing, or whatever else is an expression is not your attitude. I never said anything about having a good expression. Please read what i have written
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:17:59 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
your heart attitude is not an outward expression, it is an inward state. smiling, or laughing, or whatever else is an expression is not your attitude. I never said anything about having a good expression. Please read what i have written
The verses you have quoted seem to indicate you think mood indicates spiritual condition.
I could be depressed or sad and still be in right relationship with God. Read the life of Elijah if you doubt that.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:20:54 AM
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P31W
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
When i've stated that cheefulness is a requirement of giving,
Do you have any scripture to support your teaching that cheerfulness is a REQUIREMENT of giving for the NT believer?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:25:00 AM
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jbbaab44
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haha
do you have any scripture to support that tithing is a requirement of giving for the NT believer?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:31:35 AM
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P31W
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This is the second direct quesiton I have asked you that you won't or cannot answer.
To answer your same question yet again...as in the humpteenth time,,,,,,,,
.read very carefully.
I have never said it was "required" I said it's a biblical principle. It's YOU who uses the term required.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:41:29 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Jesus didn't condemn tithing just like he never condemned circumcision. I don't even recall him condemning any other Mosaic law for that matter. Do you?
I would not use the term "condmen" but he certainly told his followers that it was ok for them to ignore the dietary law in this passage. They "were" still under the curse of the law. Just as those who tithed were still under the "curse" of the law.
Luke 10:8 "When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is set before you.
In this passage Jesus did not condmen David for breaking the law.
26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."
What you seem to fail to realize is that in the OT people were not saved by keeping the law. They were saved the same way we are today. By placing their faith in God and believing what He says.
In the OT times they placed their faith in God believing in the coming Messiah today we place our faith in the Messiah who has come.
The passage some use about breaking one law is the same as breaking them all is true. They way some of you choose to "use" that passage to justify lawlessness is incorrect.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:52:34 AM
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P31W
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Another question for you.
What OT laws other than the tithe did Jesus appear to confirm - as in something to practice simply because it was in the law?
If as you say Jesus only mentioned tithing because it was in the law then there should be many other passages that pretty much do the same thing.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 9:55:34 AM
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jbbaab44
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I would not use the term "condmen" but he certainly told his followers that it was ok for them to ignore the dietary law in this passage.
Luke 10:8 "When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is set before you.
oh no! are you saying that Jesus is disregarding the bible? What about all scripture is profitable? What about Jesus came to fulfill not to destroy?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 10:06:49 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
...What about Jesus came ...not to destroy?
So you admit that tithing has not been done away?
Cool, then we can wrap this puppy up and get busy sharing the Gospel and making disciples.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2008 10:20:34 AM
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jbbaab44
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Another question for you.
What OT laws other than the tithe did Jesus appear to confirm - as in something to practice simply because it was in the law?
If as you say Jesus only mentioned tithing because it was in the law then there should be many other passages that pretty much do the same thing.
Jesus upheld the sabbath, and explained how is good works are not unlawful. So he was concerned with staying in the bounds of the law. even though he was above it.
Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath
Matthew 12:12 (jesus was confirming that his actions were actually lawful)
Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath
(Again Jesus confirms the day of rest for mankind)
Mark 2:27
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath
Matthew 23:2,3
The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe (yeah that included the law)
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