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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/28/2008 7:19:22 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Please post a link to a picture of a $20,000 handbag.
In this link:
http://www.styledash.com/2007/12/09/which-celeb-spends-the-most-on-handbags/
the purse that Beckham is carrying cost her $47,000.
I just couldn't see the difference between that and a normal leather bag found at Macy's or penney's. *L* I'm just not fashion oriented. It sounds like the OP is also not fashion-oriented like me.
I just stay away from the conversations that start to veer toward make-up, clothes and shopping trips, as that's not who I am. It doesn't bother me that others talk about it, that's their right to do so and it doesn't bother me that others spend their money on things I wouldn't spend my money on. Be true to one's own self.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/28/2008 7:32:57 PM >
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/28/2008 7:46:12 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
No one person should have 8 bags that cost $20,000 each.
We in America spend tooo much money on junk. For that money whole villages could've got a well and had clean water. There are Bible verses about the love of money. One of the most important ones pertaining to the rich is
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God
Your reward can be 60 or 70 years of living rich on earth, having all the latest junk or forever in Heaven. It's people's choice.
Anyone reading the Bible knows that God is not happy with that. 100's of verses mentioning the poor, downtrodden, needy, afflicted, etc. And what we as Chrsitians should be doing.
It's impossible to miss them. But then most people only hear the weekly verse in Church.
It's sad when a piece of leather is more important than real babies.
If your Church is very materalistic, I would say move around.
I do not mean to be starting an argument but if you are going to quote scripture you need to know the meaning behind the scripture. Why will it be harder for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Is it because he is rich? No. It is because of his love of his riches. Money is not the root of all evil it is the love of money that gets people.
The Eye of the needle was the name the Israelites gave to small gates/doors in the wall of the city of Jerusalem. When travelers came, their camels were usually stacked high with baggages. All the baggages would have to be taken off the camel, the camel would then need to go through the small opening and then the baggages would be put back onto the camel.
It's to show how wealth can burden people with a great amount of cares, burdens that they need to 'onload' before they would be able to enter heaven and 'onloading' these burdens (which could include the 'love' of the stuff) is harder for a man to do than it is to unload a camel.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/28/2008 7:58:08 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
The Eye of the needle was the name the Israelites gave to small gates/doors in the wall of the city of Jerusalem. When travelers came, their camels were usually stacked high with baggages. All the baggages would have to be taken off the camel, the camel would then need to go through the small opening and then the baggages would be put back onto the camel.
It's to show how wealth can burden people with a great amount of cares, burdens that they need to 'onload' before they would be able to enter heaven and 'onloading' these burdens (which could include the 'love' of the stuff) is harder for a man to do than it is to unload a camel.
Ok, where are the rich unburdening theirselves, would'nt a good way to do this is give to the poor.
There is not a purse that cost $47,000. I refuse to believe that.
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/28/2008 10:07:28 PM
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dbark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
no, I'm talking about 1% that controls most of the wealth in this country.
no one "controls" the wealth....there is no "rule" that says just because that 1% is very wealthy, that no one else can be....or that they "control" who is going to be wealthy, or by even how much.....
this is the united states...not the soviet union....
People who have wealth, control that wealth. Most of those people have very little interest in having that wealth spread around. It's not a "rule", it's a fact of life - it's human nature.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/29/2008 6:39:41 AM
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car2ner
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first the purse... P.T. Barnum is thought to have stated that "there's a sucker born every minute". Scripture says " a fool and his money are soon parted".
As far as the poor, you can't give the poor what you don't have. Share your time and resources. I agree that our possessions are not truly our own. We are stewards of our resources and m'love and I pray that we handle our resources responsibly in the eyes of God. In the eyes of many people around the world, we are very rich. In the eyes of middle america, we are average. You are correct that who is rich is all relative to who is making the judgement.
So I am not going to blast the "flithy rich"...some of them have worked hard and smart to get that way. I am not going to blast the "poor" some of them have worked to get that way and nothing I can do will save them from themselves. But I do hope that the times God has prompted us to be generous, we have been.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/29/2008 7:43:11 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4976
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quote:
The Eye of the needle was the name the Israelites gave to small gates/doors in the wall of the city of Jerusalem. When travelers came, their camels were usually stacked high with baggages. All the baggages would have to be taken off the camel, the camel would then need to go through the small opening and then the baggages would be put back onto the camel.
I've heard that before, and I've also heard that it's not true. That the gate was built after Jesus said that.
Another thing I've heard that makes sense to me anyway, is that there was a letter smudged in the translation of the word "camel" and that it should have been "cable", like one of the big ropes they use on a ship.
Whatever the translation, the point is that it it's impossible, without God, for a rich man to enter Heaven.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/29/2008 9:21:24 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
The Eye of the needle was the name the Israelites gave to small gates/doors in the wall of the city of Jerusalem. When travelers came, their camels were usually stacked high with baggages. All the baggages would have to be taken off the camel, the camel would then need to go through the small opening and then the baggages would be put back onto the camel.
I've heard that before, and I've also heard that it's not true. That the gate was built after Jesus said that.
Another thing I've heard that makes sense to me anyway, is that there was a letter smudged in the translation of the word "camel" and that it should have been "cable", like one of the big ropes they use on a ship.
Whatever the translation, the point is that it it's impossible, without God, for a rich man to enter Heaven.
It is impossible for anyone, without God, to get into Heaven.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/29/2008 2:09:56 PM
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Ps103
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Okay, I have been pondering this thread (and pondering $20k and up handbags).
And, while I cannot honestly say I think it is a good thing, or a good use of money, to make such a (cough) investment, I cannot honestly say that in all circumstances owning one would be sinful.
If, for example, I had a $1m/year income, gave freely of my money to God's work and to my fellow man and had no debt, a $20k handbag is not much in the grand scheme of things. It should not be anyone else's business if I want a big ol' ugly over-priced bag.
But we seem to look at only the conspicuously ridiculous things as materialism. We are missing the point.
How many people in America are in trouble now because they purchased goods or houses they could not reasonably afford?
How many people have lavish birthday parties or weddings that put them in debt for many years to come?
How many people go into debt to attend "prestigious" universities when there are more reasonable alternatives available?
One *cannot* give to others when one is in debt up to their eyeballs--any money they get is already someone else's. But we do not see this as sin or materialism or conspicuous consumption--we see this as "normal." It shouldn't be.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/30/2008 6:12:00 AM
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louischaise
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quote:
If, for example, I had a $1m/year income, gave freely of my money to God's work and to my fellow man and had no debt, a $20k handbag is not much in the grand scheme of things. It should not be anyone else's business if I want a big ol' ugly over-priced bag.
But we seem to look at only the conspicuously ridiculous things as materialism. We are missing the point.
Agreed. I think it is OK to buy things for quality and if that sometimes they cost. I even think its ok to own one of those Hermes bags. They are after all hand-stitched and all that. However my example quoted was 8 purses that cost $20,000 and buying them as a normal salaried person. Is that materialism to an extreme? I think so. Does one need 8 expensive purses of the EXACT same design? And for what reason?
The answer really is in the HEART of the owner of these purses. What motivates her to spend her money that way? If it is pride, then she needs to examine her own heart. If it is for pure enjoyment, then perhaps she needs to ask if she truly needs 8 purses to satisfy herself.
That's just what I think. My pastor pointed my to this verses in 2 Cor 9:
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever." 10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
The issue here is WHAT WE NEED. Does one need 8 $20,000 purses? That should be the heart of the matter. We need to pause and ask ourselves if the things we buy are things that we truly need. It's right to say it is not the object or the price, because these are relative. But it is really our heart attachment to these things that can well lead to idolatry and greed if we are not honest with ourselves.
Also look at verse 11: we are to be generous on every occasion. Will be be able to be generous when these occasions arrive if we are not consistently good stewards of God's money?
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/30/2008 6:21:48 AM
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car2ner
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Well, I have to admit, I have more than I need. Some things are just plain handy. Some are decorative. Some are fun. Some are things someone else thought I should have. But I do have more than I need.
I do agree it is materialism when things become more important than God or our "neighbors".
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/30/2008 2:16:55 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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having money, lots of it would make stuff pretty accessible and entertaining and hard to decide limits for. easy to get caught up and distracted by etc.
but here's something else...christians need to be found in all walks of life. the rich the poor the in between. etc. there they live their lives and faith among unbelievers.
in church life, this stuff is tricky. it causes division and discomfort between the have a lots and don't have much-es. that's a big deal and is a challenge for both sides of it.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/30/2008 4:24:55 PM
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Consecrated2God
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If I saw one of those purses in a box at a yard sale for a quarter each, I wouldn't even recognize it as something of value and would pass it by. They are that ugly.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 4/30/2008 10:34:11 PM
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tracydolls
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Poor people do have the "love of money" they just don' have the money.
In the culture that we live in with all this wealth, where do we draw the line?
I also think if a person emails me something or post something, they want me to comment on it. Is it really my business, no. I agree.
I "TRY"  not to comment on indivuals, if they are sinners, we all are. This culture as a whole, is too materalistic, in varying degrees. Our sinful nature.
I hate this sin very much. If a person was not married and living with someone, that does not hurt anyone but selves.
With a culture is like this, we hurt people. It hurts to see hungry children and $20k purses.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 6:31:22 AM
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car2ner
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quote:
In the culture that we live in with all this wealth, where do we draw the line?
That is the real question that needs to be answered. The problem is that this line keeps moving. It depends on so many factors. That is why we can make judgements about how money should be handled but each of us is ultimately personally responsible to God more than each other.
As far as hungry children go, I could live in a cardboard box and give every dollar I had to hungry children, hungry adults (they count too), chronically sick children/adults, the aged, the mentally ill... the list goes on and on and it is never enough.
To give to a cause or a person is noble, but ultimately we need to be led by the Spirit.
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"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 9:08:19 AM
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SonInMe1
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By all means, if money is a sin to you, I want to help.
Send all your money to me.
You are now righteous and I am happy. Its a win, win.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 10:10:23 AM
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Agenias
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Wow,
I'm really surprised by many comments! I don't think any amount of money a person makes justifies spending even $1000 on a purse! It makes me wonder if many of you who are berating the original poster also waste money like this yourself. And yes, it is wasting money if you are spending that much on a handbag. The fact of the matter is that the woman had the audacity to call a new purse her 'baby'?? That is extremely bothersome. My husband and I are both college educated and make a decent income (middle class) and I struggled last week buying a purse at a discount store that cost $14.99. I thought, "do I really need it when there are starving people in the world? Is this something that I will use often? I bought my last purse 3 years ago and I felt I needed a larger one as we have 3 small children and often I am carrying a camera or a jacket and thought it would be nice to slip it into a purse.
Maybe this is just the way I was raised, I don't know, but I have issues spending $20 on a pair of jeans. Material THINGS should NOT make you happy! Why even talk about a new purse at church?? The church I go to, the people certainly wouldn't. How many people donate their TIME to the Lord?? I plan to when my kids are a little older, but my job right now is raising my 18 month old, a 4 year old and a 6 year old. I'm blessed to work in a NICU where I feel I can do the Lord's work for a profession.
And it is hard not to judge others! It's hard for me at work sometimes when I see that a woman had IVF and had one of the fetus' 'selectively removed' prior to the birth, it's really hard not to judge and say 'how could you'? How many of you judge a homeosexual couple you see on the street or a person dressed in drag? Whoever is without sin throw the first stone!
Anyone ever read any Keith Green? He talks about a guy in one of his stories who literally gave everything away and served God. How many of us would do that? If we wouldn't, we are too materialistic.
Yes, it is that woman's decision to not have children, but children are a blessing, so if she chooses not to receive that blessing, then it is her business. However, anyone who has children realizes just how much they allow you to grow in God. Only through children can you experience a little slice of how much God loves us! Because you love your children that much and you can't imagine how much more God loves you, it's awesome! My sister is trying to have children and cannot, so they are hoping to adopt in the near future. Adopting in the US is free via fostercare, anyone can do it.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 10:30:08 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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Is it certain that these women are all buying their own purses? I just ask that because I have a lot of really expensive handbags that were given to me as gifts from family members; very wealthy family members. My dad didn't care too much about them at first because it looked like I was a struggling single mum with very nice handbags. *grin*
Oh well.
I also have a lot of things that could be construed as "expensive" but it's because I get them as gifts. This type of judgement for lack of a better word, is so frustrating. Instead of worrying about what's going on in your neighbour's yard why don't you get to know them better? No telling what you might learn.
< Message edited by Tinkerbell_ -- 5/1/2008 10:36:18 AM >
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 10:32:29 AM
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WalkingwithHim2
Posts: 2787
Joined: 12/13/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Poor people do have the "love of money" they just don' have the money.
In the culture that we live in with all this wealth, where do we draw the line?
I also think if a person emails me something or post something, they want me to comment on it. Is it really my business, no. I agree.
I "TRY" not to comment on indivuals, if they are sinners, we all are. This culture as a whole, is too materalistic, in varying degrees. Our sinful nature.
I hate this sin very much. If a person was not married and living with someone, that does not hurt anyone but selves.
With a culture is like this, we hurt people. It hurts to see hungry children and $20k purses.
quote:
Maybe this is just the way I was raised, I don't know, but I have issues spending $20 on a pair of jeans.
Does it also hurt you to see hungry children and the $500-$1500 computers that you are currently on? Does it also hurt to see hungry children and you have cable tv, cell phones, cars, clothes that are not hand-me-downs, new shoes, haircuts, jewelery, etc.?
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