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War in Iraq
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| We are in Iraq because of oil |
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| We are in Iraq to liberate the less fortunate |
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| We are in Iraq to protect Israel |
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| We are in Iraq to stop terrorists |
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| We are in Iraq for some other reason |
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(last vote on : 11/10/2009 4:31:27 PM)
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/4/2009 10:23:35 AM
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rlj
Posts: 3866
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Not only is it not debunked, it's still happening.
You Bush bashers are contortional experts , I'll say that.
Letusreason, in all humility the US military and the government has said there was no connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. They combed the country, they went through documents, they interogated people for thousands of hours and yet they came up with nothing. I'm not making this up and I'm not distorting the truth. Had this letter been legitimate had their been other corraborating pieces of evidence then the report would have said otherwise.
A few things from some of the links you provided:
1) It is no surprise and common knowledge that after the fall of Saddam and due to the subsequent de-Baathification plan introduced by Bremer that the ranks of AQ swelled in Iraq. Specifically among the higher ups who could have faced interrogation and possible death sentences. That's not really news nor is it surprising.
2) There is still no link between Saddam, AQ and definitely nothing to do with 9/11. This was intentional spin by the administration in the runup to the war.
3) The links between Saddam and terrorism were greater than I and some others had realized including many war supporters. I have discussed this with others on CW and the only consistent response I ever got was "Saddam paid off Palestinian suicide bombers with cash that makes him a terrorist supporter". Well so does Saudi Arabia. There was more to it than that.
You'll probably be surprised to know that in the begginning I wasn't against the war though I wasn't really for it either. There was nothing amongst the reasons for going to Iraq that I had heard that sounded legit except for the fact that it was time to pay the piper in regards to Saddam's decade+ long period of ignoring the terms of his '91 peace treaty. I expected us to go in, take Baghdad and send in some more troops- possibly drafting some to hold the country. At the time of the fateful day on board the USS George Washington I knew we had screwed up by even attempting this with such a pittance of troops to hold the nation and thinking we were close to done. The fact that both Centcom and CFLCC left immediately after the initial land war ended should be proof enough that the admnistration and it's planners considered Iraq finished and that they had no plans or contingencies for a long conflict.
Before you call me an armchair general or give me the "hindsight is 20/20", I would like to say that hindsight is only 20/20 when those with 20/20 foresight get ignored. We had a very distinguished list of individuals who at the time of the liberation of Kuwait told us exactly what we could expect if we removed Saddam. They were right.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/4/2009 2:37:20 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 1158
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1.) Please give documentation of "swelled". Al qaida after the fact does not disprove before the fact.
2.) THis was a statement to the contrarian opinion and is not the main idea of the link.
Also you left this out - "essentially summarizes a 94 page report down to a single, unrepresentative phrase."
3.) what's your point?
I'm surprised you didn't mention the price of tea in China because you obfucated with nearly everything else under the sun that doesn't relate to the main issue.
And you refused to address any of that evidence which is current & EXHAUSTIVE which indicates to me that you are sticking your head in the sand on the matter.
If you want to see no evil, fine but there is no sense in calling black white or day night.
The montra "US military and the government has said there was no connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda."
is an untrue political montra whether it's said in humility or arrogance.
< Message edited by letusreason -- 1/4/2009 2:48:16 PM >
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/4/2009 2:39:02 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/30/2008
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here pick one and tell me why it is not evidence in support of said position:
in a related note, former Iraqi Vice President and "deputy chairman of the Iraqi Revolutionary Command Council" (who has also reportedly spent time operating from Syria) was recently almost caught near Saddam Hussein's former hometown of Tikrit. Despite eluding capture, and contrary to stories of turning against al Qaeda, al Douri's recovered possessions revealed details on al Qaeda , including a detailed plan of a March attack on Mosul's Badush prison that freed over 100 al Qaeda members.
The former and the latter are the same.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/4/2009 3:47:26 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3866
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
3.) what's your point?
Obviously the mistake I made was saying "I was wrong". My apologies it won't ever happen again. I promise not to read any more of your links(nothing that much wrong with them) and comment on them again especially when I find that an opinion I held may have been incorrect.
Enjoy the fruit of the war over the next few years though- Obama running the country, Dems controlling two houses of congress and almost a super majority. You earned it. :D
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/5/2009 7:19:42 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 1158
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
The montra "US military and the government has said there was no connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda." is an untrue political montra whether it's said in humility or arrogance.
I usually consider the Pentagon to be the "US military".
quote:
The U.S. military's first and only study looking into ties between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda showed no connection between the two, according to a military report released by the Pentagon.
Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says
quote:
The report released by the Joint Forces Command five years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq said it found no "smoking gun" after reviewing about 600,000 Iraqi documents captured in the invasion and looking at interviews of key Iraqi leadership held by the United States, Pentagon officials said.
Now, as for our Republican controlled Government - They most certainly have (in both humility and in arrogance) repeated the untrue political montra that there was a connection.
Nice to see that after their credibility was lost, they've still got a few loyal followers.
Have you thought of running for office? I hear tell there's alot of right-wing Republican slots that have recently become open! 
CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS are Tripe! Fox isn't much better it just like salt that seasons the junk the other ones can't get right.
Here is in depth study of the report that came out last March.
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/15/pentagon-rpt-confirms-saddams-regime-supported-al-qaida/
The phrase that the rest of the media latched onto was "no DIRECT connection" . The qualifier "DIRECT" does not exclude all and any type of connection.
For those who have a brain, let them think....
Pg. 15
Despite their incompatible long-term goals, manyterrorist movements and Saddam found a common enemy in the United States.
no ,no smoking gun, just an intent to harm our country and the means and connections to get it done.
With the information in this report that was so slanted by reducing it down to a one phrase contrarian summary by an ANONYMOUS sorce, it's not so hard to imagine an alternate history of Al Gore getting elected in 2000, doing nothing, and suit-case nukes going off in major cities.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/5/2009 7:30:20 PM
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Mindy-and-Me
Posts: 233
Joined: 1/2/2009
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I have no clue why we are in Iraq. We have no business or reason to be there. Period. Just like Viet Nam. The blood of all the soldiers that have been killed will be on Bush's hands.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/5/2009 7:34:26 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lloyd-and-Me
I have no clue why we are in Iraq. We have no business or reason to be there. Period. Just like Viet Nam. The blood of all the soldiers that have been killed will be on Bush's hands.
cool, another CNN viewer.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/6/2009 12:03:46 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
And yet another response spot-lighting evidence in the report:
What's happening here is obvious. Military historians and terrorism analysts are engaged in a good faith effort to review the captured documents from the Iraqi regime and provide a dispassionate, fact-based examination of Saddam Hussein's long support of jihadist terrorism. Most reporters don't care. They are trapped in a world where the Bush administration lied to the country about an Iraq-al Qaeda connection, and no amount of evidence to the contrary--not even the words of the fallen Iraqi regime itself--can convince them to reexamine their mistaken assumptions.
When you read it through, Saddam's support of Al-Qaida (and other groups) was glorified cheerleading, part of his efforts to exaggerate his power to impress his enemies. It worked so well that the Neocons seized the 9/11 opportunity to carry out the next step in their plan for world domination. Saddam was a tyrant and terrorist. There are dozens like him, unfortunately. He was no worse than our dear-departed friend, the Shah of Iran.
If the Pentagon report proved what you say, the administration would be shouting it from the rooftops.
Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell says the report shows "a Nazi-esque cataloging of Saddam's ties with terror."
Still, according to the report, researchers have not found any "direct connection" between Saddam and al-Qaida, which carried out the September 11 attacks in 2001 and several other significant attacks on U.S. targets. Pentagon Spokesman Bryan Whitman says U.S. military researchers have reached the same 'no-connection' conclusion in at least two previous analyses of the captured documents.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/10/2009 4:20:07 AM
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drnick
Posts: 89
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Status: offline
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Interesting interview with a former Guantanamo Bay guard:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7821569.stm
Confirms what many had been saying. No torture? Yeah right.
_____________________________
Who needs new music. Everyone knows Rock attained perfection in 1974. -- Homer Simpson
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/19/2009 9:41:24 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 1158
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drnick
Interesting interview with a former Guantanamo Bay guard:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7821569.stm
Confirms what many had been saying. No torture? Yeah right.
Two Alleged Orchestrators Of 9/11 Declare Guilt At Gitmo Court
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Two-Alleged-Orchestrators-Of-9-11-Declare-Guilt/pUEUtFUbSU62_wGyqe7S1A.cspx
2 MORE!!
Yes , by all means , let's give these 2 self-proclaimed terrorists a fair trial in the U.S. where they they can be found innocent and set free. Oh yea that's a great idea and Obamma is just the man to see it through!
The one terrorist's response to the judge says it all:
"This is terrorism, not court. You don't give me the opportunity to talk."
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/19/2009 10:39:03 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
Status: offline
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quote:
researchers have not found any "direct connection" between Saddam and al-Qaida, which carried out the September 11 attacks in 2001 and several other significant attacks on U.S. targets. Pentagon Spokesman Bryan Whitman says U.S. military researchers have reached the same 'no-connection' conclusion in at least two previous analyses of the captured documents.
...by contrast, Al Qaeda left all kinds of evidence in Afghanistan.......yet six years later some here still hold on to the notion that we will find a direct connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda.
It didn't exists...except in the minds of the neo conservatives.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/20/2009 2:13:06 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3866
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Did you even read the report that you so handily lampoon?
Like this summary conclusion IN THE REPORT?
I want to simply see something from the administration. That's it. Bush has said there were no WMD's. Bush has said there was no connection between Saddam and 9/11. The report says there was no proof of a collaborative relationship between the two though they did have contacts. The 9/11 commission said there was no connection. Bush himself has stated that AQ in Iraq is ran by foreigners. If there is any reason to rebut this, if all of this is wrong then please show me the president's rebuttal. I mean has anyone in this administration shown any solid proof that these reasonings are valid? It's like the 500 or so leftover mustard gas shells from the Iran war that his supporters claimed up and down left and right proved Saddam had WMD's while simultaneously the administration said this isn't what we were looking for.
Please show me where the administration rebuts any of this. Rebuttals of this would have gone a good ways in drumming up wavering support for the war and it would have given us a sense of something else solid and good.
So no I haven't read the report. The fact that the Pentagon says the ties weren't there or weren't enough to say there was a link are good enough for me since it is in the Pentagon's best interest to win public opinion to the war.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/20/2009 2:42:15 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
And yet another response spot-lighting evidence in the report:
What's happening here is obvious. Military historians and terrorism analysts are engaged in a good faith effort to review the captured documents from the Iraqi regime and provide a dispassionate, fact-based examination of Saddam Hussein's long support of jihadist terrorism. Most reporters don't care. They are trapped in a world where the Bush administration lied to the country about an Iraq-al Qaeda connection, and no amount of evidence to the contrary--not even the words of the fallen Iraqi regime itself--can convince them to reexamine their mistaken assumptions.
When you read it through, Saddam's support of Al-Qaida (and other groups) was glorified cheerleading, part of his efforts to exaggerate his power to impress his enemies.
Oh , you mean like the cheerleaders at my daughters highschool football game. ok I see what you mean. If Saddam was just like those girls, I certainly am in the wrong in my thinking here and need only realize that Saddam = cheerleaders . CHECK!
You got me on that one!!
Saddam had nothing to offer but moral support. After the Gulf War, he was hemmed in and, as we now know, had nothing in the way of WMD to give away. Anything he had, he was going to keep to use on his domestic enemies. If you read the report instead of selective Op-eds, you'd understand why the Administration got so quiet about WMD's.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/21/2009 7:10:19 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
Status: offline
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quote:
If you read the report instead of selective Op-eds, you'd understand why the Administration got so quiet about WMD's.
Exactly.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/21/2009 10:40:52 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3866
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
If you read the report instead of selective Op-eds, you'd understand why the Administration got so quiet about WMD's.
I simply read what his former excellency had to say about the WMD's and I knew they were a farce. Was I wrong to do that? :(
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/22/2009 12:18:05 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
If you read the report instead of selective Op-eds, you'd understand why the Administration got so quiet about WMD's.
I simply read what his former excellency had to say about the WMD's and I knew they were a farce. Was I wrong to do that? :(
Just a different route to the same information. Your average Dupont plant probably has more WMD's than Iraq had althogether in 2003.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 1/23/2009 11:25:26 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
Joined: 5/6/2005
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Military accuses KBR of "negligent homicide" in electrocution death of soldier. Soldier was taking a shower when he was electrocuted.
"An Army criminal investigator said the manner of death for Staff Sgt. Ryan Maseth, 24, of Pittsburgh, has been changed from accidental to negligent homicide because the contractor failed to ensure that "qualified electricians and plumbers" worked on the barracks where Maseth died, according to the document."
It's good that some accountability may be forthcoming.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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Only the best for the troops! - 1/29/2009 10:41:38 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3866
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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It looks like the gross incompetence and negligence of Cheneyburton subsidiary KBR is far worse than even I thought:
quote:
(CNN) -- Improper wiring by military contractor KBR at U.S. bases in Iraq led to electrical shocks about once every three days for nearly two years, according to Defense Department documents obtained by CNN.
Houston-based KBR, the military contractor responsible for maintaining and providing services at most of U.S. bases across Iraq, had "systemic failures" in its electrical work that threatened the life, health and safety of people inside the bases, according to the documents, from a violation report obtained by CNN.
There were 231 electrical shocks of personnel in Iraq from September 2006 through July 2008 in facilities maintained by KBR, the documents state.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/kbr.electrical/index.html
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ycCndVNctA
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