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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/15/2008 7:50:16 AM
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P31W
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Random,
I have been thinking about what you said that he may be a man of conviction. You know I think you hit the nail on the head!!!
I believe that is the most common sense and reasonable reason why he reported and probably gave so little.
He is a die hard liberal and believes it's the goverment's responsibility to help people not an individual one.
So I agree with your assumption. I believe he is simply living out his personal conviction and it shows itself in many ways. One of which is his personal tax return.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/17/2008 9:10:49 AM
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P31W
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The 2007 return
Ø Total income: $4,238,165
Ø Total charitable contributions for 2007: $240,370
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/17/2008 10:13:02 AM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
The 2007 return
Ø Total income: $4,238,165
Ø Total charitable contributions for 2007: $240,370
Again allow me to say that a man's tax return is not iron clad proof of their generosity. A person may not report their charitable giving because they feel it to be a violation of Christ's instructions to do such giving in secret. A person may report the bare minimum they may, or may not, be required to and leave the rest in secret. Whether anyone likes it or not this is a possibility.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 7:33:04 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Again allow me to say that a man's tax return is not iron clad proof of their generosity. A person may not report their charitable giving because they feel it to be a violation of Christ's instructions to do such giving in secret. A person may report the bare minimum they may, or may not, be required to and leave the rest in secret. Whether anyone likes it or not this is a possibility.
What "some Christians" may or may not do has nothing what so ever to do with Obama.
Obama's faith does not teach that we are to follow Jesus exact teachings, moral code or values. Jesus had this own "historical setting" inwhich he lived and how he lived and what he taught on various matters was only for his time in history.
That is why Obama's faith can also teach that violent overthrow of white man, white church and their white god is a possibility to consider when they believe there is no hope for the white man to repent.
Obama's faith is NOT the Christian faith.
__________
Based on Obama's tax records we have no proof that he gave one dime more.
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/18/2008 8:26:12 AM >
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 8:42:23 AM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 771
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Again allow me to say that a man's tax return is not iron clad proof of their generosity. A person may not report their charitable giving because they feel it to be a violation of Christ's instructions to do such giving in secret. A person may report the bare minimum they may, or may not, be required to and leave the rest in secret. Whether anyone likes it or not this is a possibility.
What "some Christians" may or may not do has nothing what so ever to do with Obama.
Obama's faith does not teach that we are to follow Jesus exact teachings, moral code or values. Jesus had this own "historical setting" inwhich he lived and how he lived and what he taught on various matters was only for his time in history.
That is why Obama's faith can also teach that violent overthrow of white man, white church and their white god is a possibility to consider when they believe there is no hope for the white man to repent.
Obama's faith is NOT the Christian faith.
__________
Based on Obama's tax records we have no proof that he gave one dime more.
And that has nothing to do with this particular thread. This thread is about how "caring" he is based solely on the circumstantial evidence of his tax returns. Which is an asinine assertion in any event as my contention that is within the realm of possibility that he simplly didn't declare everything still holds true.
Whether or not he's a Christian is the topic of another thread entirely.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 8:45:44 AM
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P31W
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No you said that "some Christians" don't report their giving.
In response to your post I said that Obama's faith is not the Christian faith. It's your post that has nothing to do with Obama's giving or lack there of or reporting.
I started this thread. I do understand the topic.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 8:53:36 AM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
No you said that "some Christians" don't report their giving.
In response to your post I said that Obama's faith is not the Christian faith. It's your post that has nothing to do with Obama's giving or lack there of or reporting.
I started this thread. I do understand the topic.
I find that acusation rather amusing actually. You made the claim that you can tell how caring Obama is by how much money he donated via his tax returns. I just made the counter argument that no you really can't because there are other explanations that are within the realm of possibility. Choosing to not declare because of Christ's admonition to do such things in secret is one of those possibilities.
There are other possibilites of course, I just pointed out the most obvious one.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 8:55:41 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Choosing to not declare because of Christ's admonition to do such things in secret is one of those possibilities.
Not for a person who does not believe in the Christ of scripture or that his teachings apply to us today.
quote:
There are other possibilites of course
Name them so that we may examine those possibilities.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 4:46:08 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Choosing to not declare because of Christ's admonition to do such things in secret is one of those possibilities.
Not for a person who does not believe in the Christ of scripture or that his teachings apply to us today.
quote:
There are other possibilites of course
Name them so that we may examine those possibilities.
A person may simplly decide that they don't want to declare their charitable givings because they don't feel that such things should be deductible. They give because they have a moral imperative to take care of others and uplift them as they have been uplifted.
They may not declare their charitable givings because they don't want to have the appearance of only doing so for the tax write-off.
They may not declare their charitable givings because they may feel that what they give shouldn't influence how much their taxes are.
They also may not declare their charitable givings because they just don't want anyone to know how much they do for charity.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 8:55:55 PM
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Jhud
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What I don't get is why he only paid the minimum tax on 4 million dollars; 33%. You'd think with interest in economic 'fairness', and concern about the rich he would have voluntarily given more to the government.
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Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/18/2008 11:12:38 PM
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henny
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McCain released his tax returns.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/18/916355.aspx
Although I'm not sure that they mean much as he refuses to release his wife's tax returns, citing John Kerry (of all people) as precedent. His wife is heiress and head of a beer distribution company and is estimated to be worth upwards of 100 million (although no one knows exactly), so I'm not sure you can really judge much based only only his disclosed income.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 4/21/2008 7:50:14 AM
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P31W
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quote:
What I don't get is why he only paid the minimum tax on 4 million dollars; 33%. You'd think with interest in economic 'fairness', and concern about the rich he would have voluntarily given more to the government.
I have wondered that myself. No one "forced" him to take all the deductions and exemptions he did. He could have paid much more in taxes if he wanted to.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 8:59:31 AM
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Closie
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Since the Palin's tax returns have been made public, I'm sure it will discussed in a different thread here. I thought I'd bump the Obama lack of tithing thread to the top for comparison.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 9:43:27 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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that's pitiful but of course par for the course ... liberals are very fond of spending other people's money ...
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 10:02:48 AM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
Since the Palin's tax returns have been made public, I'm sure it will discussed in a different thread here. I thought I'd bump the Obama lack of tithing thread to the top for comparison.
Thanks for the bump. From what I saw of her tax returns, she donated way below the 10% in charitable contributions. Now, let the excuses fly! :-)
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 10:36:46 AM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
Since the Palin's tax returns have been made public, I'm sure it will discussed in a different thread here. I thought I'd bump the Obama lack of tithing thread to the top for comparison.
Thanks for the bump. From what I saw of her tax returns, she donated way below the 10% in charitable contributions. Now, let the excuses fly! :-)
Excuse for what?
That she donated $8000 to charity and McCain contributed $105,467, or 26 percent of his total income and Obama donated 5.7 percent of the couple’s $4.2-million in reported income while Biden's average charitable gift is $369?
C'mon, just go ahead and say it, you can do it, say "I think someone can be a great leader if they are stingy like a clam but they sure care for me!"
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 11:09:45 AM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
Since the Palin's tax returns have been made public, I'm sure it will discussed in a different thread here. I thought I'd bump the Obama lack of tithing thread to the top for comparison.
Thanks for the bump. From what I saw of her tax returns, she donated way below the 10% in charitable contributions. Now, let the excuses fly! :-)
Excuse for what?
That she donated $8000 to charity and McCain contributed $105,467, or 26 percent of his total income and Obama donated 5.7 percent of the couple’s $4.2-million in reported income while Biden's average charitable gift is $369?
C'mon, just go ahead and say it, you can do it, say "I think someone can be a great leader if they are stingy like a clam but they sure care for me!"
It's funny how you mentioned she donated $8,000. Even so, it's far less than most of you would require to vet someone as a faithful Christian. And the very fact that someone's total giveng amount doesn't meet your expectations doesn't mean they will be the same with someone else's money. I see both Biden and Obama voted for the bailout and had the right mind to include help for those in need outside of Wall St. Sounds real stingy huh? Bush's original bill did not have Main St. in mind. The total 700 billion was going straight to Wall St.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 11:14:11 AM
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earthless
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I believe the point is that Biden and Obama (liberals in general) are always preaching about how it is patriotic and good to give money to those in need.
Yet they do not do so with their own money but instead want to do it with tax payers money.
I don't care if someone doesn't give anything to charity - just do not go around saying we need to give and do more.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 11:28:19 AM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I believe the point is that Biden and Obama (liberals in general) are always preaching about how it is patriotic and good to give money to those in need.
Yet they do not do so with their own money but instead want to do it with tax payers money.
I don't care if someone doesn't give anything to charity - just do not go around saying we need to give and do more.
Excuse me, but with Obama's new tax policy, he'd be raising taxes on himself and lowering it for you and I. Unless you make mroe than $250,000. Then please, gripe away. 
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/6/2008 12:09:57 PM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
Since the Palin's tax returns have been made public, I'm sure it will discussed in a different thread here. I thought I'd bump the Obama lack of tithing thread to the top for comparison.
Thanks for the bump. From what I saw of her tax returns, she donated way below the 10% in charitable contributions. Now, let the excuses fly! :-)
Excuse for what?
That she donated $8000 to charity and McCain contributed $105,467, or 26 percent of his total income and Obama donated 5.7 percent of the couple’s $4.2-million in reported income while Biden's average charitable gift is $369?
C'mon, just go ahead and say it, you can do it, say "I think someone can be a great leader if they are stingy like a clam but they sure care for me!"
It's funny how you mentioned she donated $8,000. Even so, it's far less than most of you would require to vet someone as a faithful Christian.
Only as a point of comparison to how a person't character is measured.
Who said anything about vetting Christians? Is that even biblical? Sliding away from the OP quite bit there!
However this is much closer to the OP and much more relevant
http://rezkowatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/follow-money-who-paid-obamas-2005.html
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/8/2008 4:30:19 PM
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Longfingers1
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Are you all serious? So this no longer applies...
Matthew 6
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms(charitable deeds) before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
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RE: How caring is Obama...follow the money! - 10/8/2008 4:41:46 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7783
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quote:
Are you all serious? So this no longer applies...
So read that to mean a Christian isn't obligated to help his impoverished brother?
Curious interpretation.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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