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RE: Mormonism? - 8/26/2006 11:08:51 AM
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AussieTBM
Posts: 28
Joined: 6/27/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kmangel
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
If God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, it makes sense to me that He would have a living prophet on earth today. God doesn't change but humans do. Hence, the need for a living prohet on the earth today.
Regarding prophets today:
Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Hebrews 1:1-2: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.…”
Since “prophets” existed “until” John the Baptist, why would I need a living “prophet” when the Bible says that I can go directly to Jesus for daily revelation through prayer and the study of His Word?
Hi kmangel:
If that was correct why did Paul write in his Epistle to the Ephesians:
quote:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(New Testament | Ephesians 4:11 - 14)
Surely that was well after John.
Regards
aussietbm
_____________________________
For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/26/2006 11:12:35 AM
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AussieTBM
Posts: 28
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
HH...I think I have posted to you before...but, point blank, until you can show me more than a vague reference IN THE BIBLE in a CURRENT translation (NIV, KJV) one that has not be corrupted by the Mormon or LDS that the religion of Joseph Smith is valid, then we really have no meeting ground.
Unless you have BIBLICAL proof then, I have nothing to talk to you about. Mainly because I do not see that using BOM as an adequate defense because I see BOM as a pure work of fiction.
Sure:
quote:
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(New Testament | Revelation 14:6 - 7)
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:15 - 20)
Sincerely,
aussietbm
_____________________________
For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/26/2006 12:24:40 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 464
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AussieTBM
quote:
ORIGINAL: kmangel
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
If God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, it makes sense to me that He would have a living prophet on earth today. God doesn't change but humans do. Hence, the need for a living prohet on the earth today.
Regarding prophets today:
Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Hebrews 1:1-2: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.…”
Since “prophets” existed “until” John the Baptist, why would I need a living “prophet” when the Bible says that I can go directly to Jesus for daily revelation through prayer and the study of His Word?
Hi kmangel:
If that was correct why did Paul write in his Epistle to the Ephesians:
quote:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(New Testament | Ephesians 4:11 - 14)
Surely that was well after John.
Regards
aussietbm
In the case of LDS prophets or anyone who claims to be hearing from and speaking for God, we are advised to test all things in light of scripture. If God does speak through a person today, it will line up with scripture. 1 John 4:1 says “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 declares, “Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good.” So, whether is it a “word from the Lord” or a supposed prophesy, our response should be the same. Compare what is said to what the Word of God says. If it contradicts the Bible, throw it out. Does everything your prophet say line up 100 percent with the Bible?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/26/2006 12:48:50 PM
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AussieTBM
Posts: 28
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kmangel
In the case of LDS prophets or anyone who claims to be hearing from and speaking for God, we are advised to test all things in light of scripture. If God does speak through a person today, it will line up with scripture. 1 John 4:1 says “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 declares, “Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good.” So, whether is it a “word from the Lord” or a supposed prophesy, our response should be the same. Compare what is said to what the Word of God says. If it contradicts the Bible, throw it out. Does everything your prophet say line up 100 percent with the Bible?
Hi kmangel:
Thank you for your response and your excellent honest question. If I may ramble for a moment, its a delight to post here, most of the board members post honest questions and are strong in their Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I do not have much time these days and what spare time I have tends to be taken up maintaining an LDS balance on spiteful, venemous boards that attack the individual not the theology. That's what the discussion should be about and, getting back to the point, that's what your question was about.
I am going to take the easy way out.  Do you know no-one has ever asked me that question in this way, may I answer it this way.
I assume you mean the Prophet Joseph Smith as opposed to the current Prophet Gordon B Hinckley.
I have never read anything he said that could not be, at least, partially be verified Biblically. Generally, when discussing the LDS Church with non-members, I will only use the Bible as a reference source.
So, here's my easy way out, if there is anything you are aware of that in your opinion has no Biblical comparison, please nominate it and I will try to answer it as best I can.
If I could ask for your understanding of my time restraints, could you nominate one or maybe two at a time, if that is possible I would be very grateful.
Sincerely,
aussietbm
< Message edited by AussieTBM -- 8/26/2006 12:51:48 PM >
_____________________________
For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/26/2006 1:10:23 PM
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PolarBear
Posts: 664
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Moving to San Antonio!
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I would note that the Mormon concept of God is contradicted by modern cosmology. We know that the universe came into existance through the work of a Designer who transcends all time and space dimensions. Time itself came into existance at the same point. All this is also confirmed by the Bible.
But the Mormon god, from what I understand, is not eternally transcendant, but was once a man, or came from a long line of gods. Who is responsible for the creation of the universe?
Also, I don't remember the exact details, but I believe the BoM talks about a planet somewhere near the center of the galaxy where there is or will be life, perhaps where some will be "gods" or whatever ---- this is highly problematic because conditions at the center of the galaxy are not fit for life of any kind. Too much radiation, and too much competing gravity for stable planetary orbits!
Maybe someone more familiar with LDS literature can point out more about what it says about this planet .....
_____________________________
My current ministry dream:
http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/26/2006 2:17:06 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 464
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AussieTBM
So, here's my easy way out, if there is anything you are aware of that in your opinion has no Biblical comparison, please nominate it and I will try to answer it as best I can.
aussietbm
Well then, using the Bible, can you show me where this is even hinted at?
God the Father has a wife, through whom he procreates spirit children.
"Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. An exalted and glorified Man of Holiness (Moses 6:57) could not be a Father unless a Woman of like glory, perfection, and holiness was associated with him as a Mother" (Mormon Doctrine, 1977 ed., p. 516)
I believe that the Bible is not everything we can know, but all we need to know. I believe in being silent where the Bible is silent and speaking where the Bible is speaking. Otherwise, we as humans, can come up with any and all manners of ideas about God and why we are here and where we are going. The "What If's" can go on forever, in my opinion. My son asked me recently why it was not possible for Jesus to have been married when He was living here on the earth. I replied that that was a "What if" kind of supposition. The Bible doesn't speak on it, so neither do we. If God had wanted us to know that Jesus was married, He would have told us in the Bible. He didn't so we don't make up stories or wonder about it. If we start adding to the Bible, we can make up any story we wish.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/27/2006 3:02:54 PM
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debtor2grace
Posts: 1
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Georgetown
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Apologies if anyone has quoted this Scripture already, but in Paul's words (Galatians 1:6-9) is contained my response to the core of LDS teaching:
quote:
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but hrere are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
It is on my heart to learn all there is to know about other religions (am currently researching Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism and Islam), by reading biased sources (from both a Christian and non-Christian viewpoint), an objective description (if available), as well as any text the given cult/religion may deem holy. Reading through the BoM, I find it historically bewildering, evoking the suggestion that it was written by one who knew the Bible very well and thought he'd make up "another" Testament.
I recently visited an LDS ward (by invitation) and made observations there. Some are mostly irrelevant, but others I feel to be of consequence:
- The noise level throughout the sacrament service was very loud. I love children, don't get me wrong, but trying to pray or think on the things of God when there are 30 infants and toddlers in a room is difficult. Also, the older children (say 7-10 years old) were not at all well-behaved. Again, mostly irrelevant, but this is what impressed upon my sensibilities.
- I attended on a day of public testimonies in lieu of a sermon. Various members of the congregation stood up to speak of their love for their families, gratitude to God and the joy of fellowship, repetitively affirming "I testify that this church is true. I testify that Gordon Hinckley is a true Prophet..." Every person's story was marked by great emotion and many tears. I had never seen so much weeping in one day as I did in the 3 hours I was there - an emotion-driven response? Among the younger testifiers was a child as young as 7 or 8, who repeated in a clear voice a simple form of what the adults had been saying. I do not think a child has the maturity of thought to make a decision of faith or commitment that her words imply, but rather she is echoing what she has heard all her life.
- One thing came across during these talks that confirmed a doctrine I had only read about up to that point: LDS believe that we were all once “spirit children” of the Heavenly Father, and that we will return to Him once we have finished our mortal existence. I am not sure of the extent this affects their theology, but it certainly differs from the teachings of the Bible.
- The Lord's Supper was celebrated with bread and water. More of an oddity than anything - I believe I understand the rational for this: Mormons do not partake of alcohol, therefore wine is out. Even grape juice has the capacity to ferment. Therefore water is the most wholesome substance to represent the blood of the Lord.
- Following the service, I attended a mixed age and gender Sunday School, with a few high school/college-aged men and women. The teacher, a kind lady who was quite considerate in making me feel welcome, spoke on the topic of genealogies as it relates to the Old Testament patriarchs. One of the things I found strange in the ensuing discussion was that the young men, whom the teacher addressed as "elders" and who were current or prospective missionaries, did not seem at all well-read in the Old Testament, which happened to be what we were looking at (I am no expert, but I do have a rough framework of the history).
-The subject of the lesson mentioned above revolved around the assumption that every Mormon believer comes into the revelation of which of the twelve tribes of Judah he or she is descended from, genetically or spiritually. Therefore, the culmination of the Great Commission is for all of the tribes to be gathered together as one into the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter-Day Saints. (Please correct me if I am wrong, anyone; my only knowledge in this matter is experiential, the product of a half-hour’s instruction – I may have misinterpreted what she was saying.)
-Following this Sunday School, I went on to a meeting of women, which was almost entirely composed of matrons between the age of 18 and 60. I was not comfortable in this setting, seeing as I am 17, single and not desirous of either children or a family. Perhaps if I had been of a different profile, it would have been more edifying…. As it was, the lecture and discussion revolved around treating our children and husband kindly, which seemed by its very nature to alienate single and childless women.
IN SUM: I came away from my morning at the LDS church with a deep sense of the familial focus and the welcoming nature of its members. Sadly, I also believe these wonderful people to be deceived and deprived of critical thought. May they have their understanding enlightened by the true Spirit of God unto a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/27/2006 10:21:06 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 178
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: From the Edge of Beyond
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AussieTBM
quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
HH...I think I have posted to you before...but, point blank, until you can show me more than a vague reference IN THE BIBLE in a CURRENT translation (NIV, KJV) one that has not be corrupted by the Mormon or LDS that the religion of Joseph Smith is valid, then we really have no meeting ground.
Unless you have BIBLICAL proof then, I have nothing to talk to you about. Mainly because I do not see that using BOM as an adequate defense because I see BOM as a pure work of fiction.
Sure:
quote:
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(New Testament | Revelation 14:6 - 7)
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
(Old Testament | Ezekiel 37:15 - 20)
Sincerely,
aussietbm
First Scripture -- That scripture is actually in reference to the tribulation (or the end of the world). That is not the angel that appeared to Joseph Smith...that is the angel that is telling you that the world is coming to an end and to get ready for judgement. If you look at the context around this scripture -- you see that it relates to the plagues that have been coming to the earth in the last years of the worlds existance (3 - 7 years)
The second scripture -- is related strictly to the Israelites and have no bearing on anything. You have to read more than one section of verses and base your whole whole religion on stretching the meaning of them. You have to read the whole context of the scripture...I asked for more than just a few verses pulled out here and there that gave more than stretch of the imagination to relate to the Book of Mormon...again there are no connections. Over all --there is nothing in the Bible that states that there is any furthur additions to the scripture.
As I stated before until we come to agreement that the Bible is the SOLE source of TRUTH and anything that contradicts or "updates" the Bible is not a valid arguement...we will never agree that the Book of Mormon is valid.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh...but I want you to understand that you are on the wrong road...you are not on the path to truth. You have to trust in the saving power of Jesus Christ to do what you could not do...and you have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is God and Man and did what you could never do...bring you into a right relationship with God.
_____________________________
I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 11:19:41 AM
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mushhead
Posts: 512
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Kearns
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(New Testament | Ephesians 4:11 - 14)
AussieTBM,
In Acts 2 we are told that many will prophecy, even our sons and daughters. If you read through the Old and New Testaments you might notice that there was usually more than one prophet ministering at any given time. In the New Testament are told of numerous prophets.
Also, if you read back through the scripture you just posted, you might notice that the Apostles were the leaders of the church, not the prophets. That is confirmed by the practice that is described in the New Testament, of Apostles travelling around and establishing churches (although they were not the only ones doing this), arranging the leadership, as well as being responsible for the ministry of the word and prayer.
If the mormon church is legitimate because it somehow follows more accurately the Biblical model, then it needs to evaluate why it has elevated prophet above apostle, and evaluate why they claim only one prophet.
As for your earlier suggestion that the mormon church has its teachings and documents out there for all to see: if that is true, then what was that whole Mark Hoffman bombing/Salamandar Letter thing about?
Didn't we learn in the ensuing investigation that Mark Hoffman had sold the church numerous forgeries (the mormon leadership thought they were real) over the years. What were those documents? Answer: various documents like the Salamander Letter, which the church believed contained embarrassing information about the Jospeph Smith and/or the mormon church.
Over the years, the church payed Hoffman and incredible sum of money for those documents so they could hide them away. In fact, few knew any of this was going on, until after the bombings.
Hope you are back to typing the old fashioned way!
_____________________________
MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 12:44:22 PM
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lexie
Posts: 3056
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
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Hey Aussie,
quote:
A quick answer to your first point is that the only parts, I am aware of, that are very similar to the Bible are where Isaiah was being quoted.
I'd like to provide some reading material. It is possible to be aware that the parts that are similar is where Isaiah is being quoted because it states that Isaiah is being quoted. However, much more of the BofM is made up of unacknowledged Bible quotes. It is also more difficult to tell this as it is essentially "cut and paste" - in other words entire verses, chapters and books aren't lifted, but many verses are strung together. I think this is where many people get caught in believing that what they are hearing is sound doctrine, because they know they have heard it before - in the Bible. After noticing this, I did some research and found that of the 26 books in the NT, 20 of them are quoted at least once in the BofM.
For the sake of keeping this post short, I'll give some articles for all to read rather than posting all of the verses that "match up." The articles come from the Institute for Religious Research.
http://www.irr.org/MIT/marquardt-bom1a.html - "Literary Dependence in the Book of Mormon - Two Studies"
http://www.irr.org/MIT/ho-bom1.html - "The Human Origins of the Book of Mormon."
http://www.irr.org/MIT/bomodern.html - "Book of Mormon: Ancient or Modern"
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 5:06:30 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
HH...I think I have posted to you before...but, point blank, until you can show me more than a vague reference IN THE BIBLE in a CURRENT translation (NIV, KJV) one that has not be corrupted by the Mormon or LDS that the religion of Joseph Smith is valid, then we really have no meeting ground.
Unless you have BIBLICAL proof then, I have nothing to talk to you about. Mainly because I do not see that using BOM as an adequate defense because I see BOM as a pure work of fiction.
I see you discussing BOM and what it says with regularity in here, but you cannot defend it when it comes up against the Word of God. Point blank, the BOM may say a lot of nice things, but where it disagrees with the Bible, then it is wrong...where it adds to the Bible...it is wrong. Because point blank, the Bible is our sole source for truth. Yes I listen to pastors and I read other books, but I am always comparing what they say to the Bible and if they are wrong...then I call them on it and disregard the information...if they continue to teach against the Bible then I don't have anything to do with them.
Point blank, we are not going to agree because our view of Truth as revealed Through the Cannonical Bible...is not the same.
Point blank...your faith is your faith.
Point blank...my faith is mine.
You do not have to justify or prove what you believe. I on the other hand am not allowed to go into detail about mine. Why????? Because it violates the TOS. But regardless of that, there is NO answer you will accept as valid regarding the LDS faith.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 7:41:57 PM
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PolarBear
Posts: 664
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Moving to San Antonio!
Status: offline
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quote:
there is NO answer you will accept as valid regarding the LDS faith.
Well that depends. Faith is testable. Is LDS true? If it is, demonstrably so, then we should all accept it.
However, if research contradicts the teachings of LDS, then no one should accept it. And I think that's exactly what has happened -- in genealogy, in cosmology, in history, in theology, and probably a few others.
That's what sets historic Christianity apart from all other claims to spiritual truth. The Bible has always shown to be supernaturally accurate. And only the Bible.
Remember, the Bible never says we should "pray" about spiritual truth ...
"Test all things, hold fast to that which is good." 1 Thess. 5:21
_____________________________
My current ministry dream:
http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 9:29:51 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 178
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: From the Edge of Beyond
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
HH...I think I have posted to you before...but, point blank, until you can show me more than a vague reference IN THE BIBLE in a CURRENT translation (NIV, KJV) one that has not be corrupted by the Mormon or LDS that the religion of Joseph Smith is valid, then we really have no meeting ground.
Unless you have BIBLICAL proof then, I have nothing to talk to you about. Mainly because I do not see that using BOM as an adequate defense because I see BOM as a pure work of fiction.
I see you discussing BOM and what it says with regularity in here, but you cannot defend it when it comes up against the Word of God. Point blank, the BOM may say a lot of nice things, but where it disagrees with the Bible, then it is wrong...where it adds to the Bible...it is wrong. Because point blank, the Bible is our sole source for truth. Yes I listen to pastors and I read other books, but I am always comparing what they say to the Bible and if they are wrong...then I call them on it and disregard the information...if they continue to teach against the Bible then I don't have anything to do with them.
Point blank, we are not going to agree because our view of Truth as revealed Through the Cannonical Bible...is not the same.
Point blank...your faith is your faith.
Point blank...my faith is mine.
You do not have to justify or prove what you believe. I on the other hand am not allowed to go into detail about mine. Why????? Because it violates the TOS. But regardless of that, there is NO answer you will accept as valid regarding the LDS faith.
There is a reason that defending your beliefs violates TOS...I'm not trying to be mean, but think about it...you are coming online here trying to proseletize Christians...you are going to have people like me call you on it...
In the end you are right about one thing, there is NO answer that will be accepted regarding the LDS faith, because the LDS is not true...in the end that is what I am looking for -- I am looking for truth...and all the nice things in the world, all the love in the world, and everything in the world means nothing unless truth is there to back it up and support it...
_____________________________
I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 11:20:11 PM
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gargle_007
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
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I don't know much on Mormonism, but I do know that they denie that Christ is God, and they say that Satan is Christ's brother...I think, but recognizing the faults in cults that refer to Jesus Christ is easy, the main thing is that they don't believe the death of Jesus Christ was necesarry.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/28/2006 11:42:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5388
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
HH...I think I have posted to you before...but, point blank, until you can show me more than a vague reference IN THE BIBLE in a CURRENT translation (NIV, KJV) one that has not be corrupted by the Mormon or LDS that the religion of Joseph Smith is valid, then we really have no meeting ground.
Unless you have BIBLICAL proof then, I have nothing to talk to you about. Mainly because I do not see that using BOM as an adequate defense because I see BOM as a pure work of fiction.
I see you discussing BOM and what it says with regularity in here, but you cannot defend it when it comes up against the Word of God. Point blank, the BOM may say a lot of nice things, but where it disagrees with the Bible, then it is wrong...where it adds to the Bible...it is wrong. Because point blank, the Bible is our sole source for truth. Yes I listen to pastors and I read other books, but I am always comparing what they say to the Bible and if they are wrong...then I call them on it and disregard the information...if they continue to teach against the Bible then I don't have anything to do with them.
Point blank, we are not going to agree because our view of Truth as revealed Through the Cannonical Bible...is not the same.
Point blank...your faith is your faith.
Point blank...my faith is mine.
You do not have to justify or prove what you believe. I on the other hand am not allowed to go into detail about mine. Why????? Because it violates the TOS. But regardless of that, there is NO answer you will accept as valid regarding the LDS faith.
Personally I would like to see you be able to go into detail since it would only serve to show just how far removed from the truth of God's word the LDS faith is...
John
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/29/2006 10:37:22 AM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
HH...I think I have posted to you before...but, point blank, until you can show me more than a vague reference IN THE BIBLE in a CURRENT translation (NIV, KJV) one that has not be corrupted by the Mormon or LDS that the religion of Joseph Smith is valid, then we really have no meeting ground.
Unless you have BIBLICAL proof then, I have nothing to talk to you about. Mainly because I do not see that using BOM as an adequate defense because I see BOM as a pure work of fiction.
I see you discussing BOM and what it says with regularity in here, but you cannot defend it when it comes up against the Word of God. Point blank, the BOM may say a lot of nice things, but where it disagrees with the Bible, then it is wrong...where it adds to the Bible...it is wrong. Because point blank, the Bible is our sole source for truth. Yes I listen to pastors and I read other books, but I am always comparing what they say to the Bible and if they are wrong...then I call them on it and disregard the information...if they continue to teach against the Bible then I don't have anything to do with them.
Point blank, we are not going to agree because our view of Truth as revealed Through the Cannonical Bible...is not the same.
Point blank...your faith is your faith.
Point blank...my faith is mine.
You do not have to justify or prove what you believe. I on the other hand am not allowed to go into detail about mine. Why????? Because it violates the TOS. But regardless of that, there is NO answer you will accept as valid regarding the LDS faith.
Personally I would like to see you be able to go into detail since it would only serve to show just how far removed from the truth of God's word the LDS faith is...
John
A few have done this.... Just check the archives. Either the tread gets shut down or erased.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/29/2006 10:46:42 AM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
There is a reason that defending your beliefs violates TOS...I'm not trying to be mean, but think about it...you are coming online here trying to proseletize Christians...you are going to have people like me call you on it...
No where in any of my posts have I tried to proseletize to Christians. I merely want to correct the false accusations.....not to challenge you in any way.
quote:
In the end you are right about one thing, there is NO answer that will be accepted regarding the LDS faith, because the LDS is not true...in the end that is what I am looking for -- I am looking for truth...and all the nice things in the world, all the love in the world, and everything in the world means nothing unless truth is there to back it up and support it...
I believe it is true.....and bashing it the way it is done here certainly isn't going to change my mind or heart.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/29/2006 11:07:28 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11654
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Just a note: HarvestHoney is attempting to abide by the TOS and has repeatedly stated that she is only in this thread to answer questions. From what I have read, she has done just this. Please do not accuse her of doing otherwise.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/29/2006 8:46:42 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 178
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: From the Edge of Beyond
Status: offline
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I concede...I understand that HH and Aussie cannot actually defend themselves without violating TOS. So I will no longer challenge their beliefs...however, I expect the same consideration and from what I have seen on this thread that is what I thought they were doing. Again, I concede...
< Message edited by SmileyTish -- 8/29/2006 8:50:34 PM >
_____________________________
I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/31/2006 7:52:32 AM
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kmangel
Posts: 464
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
Point blank...your faith is your faith.
Point blank...my faith is mine.
Yesterday I was listening to a Bible teacher over the radio and he asked a question that I'd like to pose to you here. Perhaps you will tell us how you would answer this question, as well as others if they desire, and why.
Which do you think is more important to God--our relationship with Him or what we do?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/31/2006 11:58:27 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kmangel
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
Point blank...your faith is your faith.
Point blank...my faith is mine.
Yesterday I was listening to a Bible teacher over the radio and he asked a question that I'd like to pose to you here. Perhaps you will tell us how you would answer this question, as well as others if they desire, and why.
Which do you think is more important to God--our relationship with Him or what we do?
How about, I answer you.
Both.
Mosiah 2:17
17 And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.
Matthew 25:40
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
I serve others to glorify God, not self.
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RE: Mormonism? - 9/1/2006 10:23:36 AM
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kmangel
Posts: 464
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
Which do you think is more important to God--our relationship with Him or what we do?
Both.
Mosiah 2:17
17 And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.
Matthew 25:40
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
What does relationship with God mean to you?
I believe that God considers our relationship more important. Without a relationship with God we may try to live a good life and be a good person, but there is no security in our lives. We may look upon God's requirements and quickly become frustrated. I know I still sin. The Bible says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments (1 John 14:15). Well, I can see that verse in two different ways. One way is that God is saying to me "Keep My commandments to show that you love Me." That understanding would lead me to doing works to demonstate that I love God. What Jesus actually said was if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. Do you see the difference? One falls on me to prove my love, the other to display my love. Being able to love as God wants me to love Him comes through my relationship with Him. In fact, if I fail to keep the commandments that's an indication to me that I have a love problem. I don't love God enough. The more I love God the more I will want to keep His commandments. I personally can see that my love for God has grown over the past ten years as a Christian and I believe my sin has decreased over that time period, too. The more I love God the less I sin.
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