RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
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[Poll]
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How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
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| Pre-Trib |
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| Post-trib |
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| Mid-trib |
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Total Votes : 173
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(last vote on : 11/18/2009 2:31:20 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 10:01:12 AM
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SonicStudent
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Although what Roy is saying I do understand the accuracy of where it fits primarily and agree, but I personally feel also that this truth expressed is a truth that would be true during any time. A principle as well as a prophetic statement to that given generation.
I don't know, but I presume we could all agree that during a future time of unprecedented deceptions and spiritual confusion, this statement and warning would be just as timely and we could expect gentile believers would need to be very awake and anointed with the eye salve of God's grace and truth during such a time. If Jewish believers needed to be nudged to stay awake and be careful of deceptions, I personally feel that this warning would be just as, or even more appropriate.
Blessings to all
Mark
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies. Rom 8:33
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 10:14:27 AM
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WesP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
Although what Roy is saying I do understand the accuracy of where it fits primarily and agree, but I personally feel also that this truth expressed is a truth that would be true during any time. A principle as well as a prophetic statement to that given generation.
I don't know, but I presume we could all agree that during a future time of unprecedented deceptions and spiritual confusion, this statement and warning would be just as timely and we could expect gentile believers would need to be very awake and anointed with the eye salve of God's grace and truth during such a time. If Jewish believers needed to be nudged to stay awake and be careful of deceptions, I personally feel that this warning would be just as, or even more appropriate.
Blessings to all
Mark
Amen, Mark!
I do understand that they were new to certain things, and it takes time to learn. I could spend forever on the bible and still never learn it all. It was necessary to reassure and nudge them. By the same token, the Jews that will have their eyes opened at the end will (I think) experience the same.
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Wes
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 10:55:47 AM
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SonicStudent
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Amen to that Wes,
When we remember that much of the focus of prophecy and the final deception will be engineered and pointed towards Israel during the time of Trib, I'd say those Jewish believers living at this time in Israel will need to have their spiritual eyes and ears primed. Especially those Jewish believers new to Christ through the re-grafting of the natural branches.
Blessings to you bro'
Mark
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies. Rom 8:33
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 4:24:59 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, WesP and Mark.
Okay, I can understand your positions. I just think it would be a hard to take the Road of the Rooftops out of modern-day Yerushalayim, and I hardly think that anyone more than the Jews would have a problem with trying to flee on a Shabbat (Sabbath). That's why I believe that at least that portion of Matt. 24 & 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are about the past, not the future.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
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Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 5:38:36 PM
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SonicStudent
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Hi Roy,
Yep, I agree, in its actual position, I think for sure you are right, and it was most def instructing those who saw AD70. And I think that this was its fulfilment. I think conditions at the end might be similar, and we're gonna see plenty of false teachers and saviours that are gonna seem like an answer, and that we can use this warning for ourselves.
Blessings bro',
Mark
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies. Rom 8:33
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 6:44:52 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
Thanks bro for the insightful input 
I agree with what you have underlined here, it still sticks in my mind however, that generally speaking, many were not ready for what God was about to do with Messiah at His sufferings, and were hopeful that He was to become king and deliver them from their situations. This seemed clear to me at least, when Jesus again and again explained to his own disciples that first He was to be handed over to sinners and killed at their hands, but it was as if it fell on def ears until after the event, and even then they didn't understand or believe the women that went to the tomb. Only after presented Himself to them and explained did they see.
Luke 24:17 - 21 (NKJV) 17And He said to them, “What kind of conversation is this that you have with one another as you £walk and are sad?” 18Then the one whose name was Cleopas answered and said to Him, “Are You the only stranger in Jerusalem, and have You not known the things which happened there in these days?” 19And He said to them, “What things?” So they said to Him, “The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemned to death, and crucified Him. 21But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened.
So the only point I'm making really is, in regards to the 2nd coming within scripture, there may well be happenings that may only become obvious as they happen or even after the event, and if we do not know our God's ways or nature, we could miss something of God.
Hope I'm clearer, however, I do agree with the fact that the suffering servant was always there to be seen in scripture concerning Messiah, but many were expecting things to pan out differently, and mostly many mis-interpreted events.
Lots of love and stuff LOL
Mark
Greetings
quote:
So the only point I'm making really is, in regards to the 2nd coming within scripture, there may well be happenings that may only become obvious as they happen or even after the event,
I can give an example...
Way back in the election threads I believe it was after the presidential election in November... It was given to me to hear "that in 6 months into Obama’s presidency... I posted that Roe vs Wade is going to be over turned...
Now... have you read the news lately..?
It’s been just a hair over 6 months... and what was mentioned way back when... "Is beginning" to come to pass...
So it was not exactly that Roe vs Wade was going to be over turned IN 6 months, but the process seems to be beginning…
quote:
there may well be happenings that may only become obvious as they happen or even after the event
But one has to remember these things...and as I just heard of this today on the news by reading an email from the ACLJ yesterday in reference to funding abortions via taxpayer dollars… what was brought to my remembrance that this was given to me 6 months ago…but it was not exactly the way I expected it..
So let’s say back in Jan 09 when I heard this…..now that it seems to be coming up to tuition or for debate... I can honestly say when I offered that up back in Jan 09 it was Jesus (the sprit of prophecy) of whom I heard from…
John 14:26 -
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and…… bring to …“your remembrance” …= all things…. that I said to you. (Jesus spoke sometime to me =Back in January) and it was brought up in remembrance today (after the event)
It’s a hard thing to express to others to get them to see how the prophetic word works by revelation …because many do not listen to the reminders of the things that may have been given to us beforehand..
….but as you mentioned…. that ….when these happenings become “obvious as they happen”… or.. even after the event…
It is by that example that I tried to express above…. is what (how) the Jews will be seeing… when the time comes… = as it happens
Re 1:7 - Show Context
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
When these prophetic things begin to come to pass they will come to pass at such an accelerated rate ….it will be likened to when Jesus first came…. and as He fulfilled all the prophecies concerning Himself..
. Those things actually came to pass at such a rate.... in the long run it scared the disciples into hiding….
…it will be similar with those in the world
The fulfillments of the prophetic things that are to occur…. will be “seen” as they happen = AS every eye will see Him…
Sort of like the example above… where it took 6 months to see but was not exactly how I expected it...its been the same since Jesus was given the authority of His Church …in other words we hear certain things and they come to pass and “it is bought to our remembrance” and these things could be far and in between… but may not come to pass exactly as we expected
This is why the Church has to be removed… so it will take 6 seconds “to see”… during the tribulation that is under… GOD’s authority… which means they will occur exactly as expected … = as it happens
I don’t know if anyone has ever noticed the differences between the times when Jesus pays us a visit and when the Father comes down to take peek at His Child…
....Jesus is here with us all the time, the Father paid me visit me only twice in my 6 years …and Even with the anointing... a Child can get a little paranoid when the Father comes down to take peek
Trust me … the tribulation is going to be a very interesting time with the insane when the Father comes down to take peek at those who are not yet broken…and the anointing is not present. 
LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 9:48:30 PM
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WesP
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Hey, Roy.
I understand your point. There are just so many things that have been repeated throughout the bible, and I tend to believe that the events spoken of in Revelation are to let us know what is going to happen at the end. While those things happened in 70AD, I believe similar circumstances will arise again on a much greater scale. Even so, the last 3.5 will be a doozy regardless of how this part played/plays out. Your posts are always very informative. Thank you much for that.
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Wes
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/23/2009 11:58:38 PM
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bob97
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Roy I agree with you regarding Matt 24, much of those things described did occur in 70AD but are you willing to say that much of the chapter is also not a foreshadowing of the last part of the future week?
There seem to be many things described in this chapter that did not occur also:
We can say the gospel of the kingdom was preached to the entire world (as it was known) by 70AD but can we say the gospel has been preached to the entire Jewish world today? My question will it be preached again…maybe by the 144,000?
Regarding the abomination of desolation, we know this occurred in 70AD but will it occur again in the future. Revelation 13:6 says “And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven”. This would lead me to believe that the tabernacle will be defiled again.
We understand that the beast will make war with the saints (Israel) in the future (Rev 13:7..12:13) and we have to assume that the major conflict will be centered around Jerusalem at the end.
We know unless the days are shortened that no flesh will be saved.
We understand there will be false Christ and false prophets who will work great signs. It is the elect that we are talking about being deceived…we are talking about Israel.
We have not seen lightening coming out of the east and the sign of the sun and moon. We have not seen the stars fall and the powers of heaven shaken…we assume this to be future.
We have not seen the Son of Man coming with power and great glory and the elect have not been gathered from the four winds.
Is this both a past and future prophecy? 
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 7/25/2009 1:40:39 AM
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Retrobyter
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Shabbat shalom, Bob.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Roy I agree with you regarding Matt 24, much of those things described did occur in 70AD but are you willing to say that much of the chapter is also not a foreshadowing of the last part of the future week?
There seem to be many things described in this chapter that did not occur also:
We can say the gospel of the kingdom was preached to the entire world (as it was known) by 70AD but can we say the gospel has been preached to the entire Jewish world today? My question will it be preached again…maybe by the 144,000?
Regarding the abomination of desolation, we know this occurred in 70AD but will it occur again in the future. Revelation 13:6 says “And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven”. This would lead me to believe that the tabernacle will be defiled again.
We understand that the beast will make war with the saints (Israel) in the future (Rev 13:7..12:13) and we have to assume that the major conflict will be centered around Jerusalem at the end.
We know unless the days are shortened that no flesh will be saved.
We understand there will be false Christ and false prophets who will work great signs. It is the elect that we are talking about being deceived…we are talking about Israel.
We have not seen lightening coming out of the east and the sign of the sun and moon. We have not seen the stars fall and the powers of heaven shaken…we assume this to be future.
We have not seen the Son of Man coming with power and great glory and the elect have not been gathered from the four winds.
Is this both a past and future prophecy?
Bob
Yes! It most definitely IS both a past and future prophecy! However, be sure you understand the terminology of what you quote: "To blaspheme" means "to belittle." Thus, He is VERBALLY putting down God's Name (His authority), Tabernacle (His "Tent"--the New Jerusalem; see Rev. 21:3), and those who live in the sky (i.e., somewhere within the 1500 miles of the New Jerusalem's height). There is no physical desecration of the Temple implied within these verses.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
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Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/4/2009 1:32:20 PM
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WilliamtheConqueror
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You didn't give us the Prewrath or Partial rapture choices. Some people are adamant about that. Also the Amills think the tribulation has been the whole church age or almost two thousand years, so that is a sixth choice. It would seem that the choices you gave are only for Chiliasts. Augustine would turn over in his grave and so would John Calvin!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/10/2009 3:39:00 AM
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WilliamtheConqueror
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Watchman Nee believed in a Partial Rapture, that is people believers get raptured throughout the tribulation.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/10/2009 10:34:31 AM
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WesP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WilliamtheConqueror
Watchman Nee believed in a Partial Rapture, that is people believers get raptured throughout the tribulation.
Never heard that one before. What justification from the bible could he have possibly used to present that view?
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Wes
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/10/2009 12:10:24 PM
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tsnody2001
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I am having a hard time making my mind up as far as where I stand on the Rapture. Arguments for pre-, mid-, and post- are seemingly convincing. I tend to lean toward the idea that there will not be a pretrib rapture... But I think it all comes down to, which argument is supported by the most biblical evidence WITHOUT bending and twisting scripture and ADDING or TAKING AWAY from God's Word.
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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/10/2009 4:19:02 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
I am having a hard time making my mind up as far as where I stand on the Rapture. Arguments for pre-, mid-, and post- are seemingly convincing. I tend to lean toward the idea that there will not be a pretrib rapture... But I think it all comes down to, which argument is supported by the most biblical evidence WITHOUT bending and twisting scripture and ADDING or TAKING AWAY from God's Word.
You are on the right path then tsnody.
Since Scripture actually only teaches "RESURRECTION"
Rapture is a man-made doctrine. Of course we can argue
rapture is the vehicle for resurrection.
All can NOT be right, but all CAN be wrong, which they are.
I believe God will unveil the truth as the time approaches.
And the arguments from all the various camps will continue.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/10/2009 5:16:23 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
I am having a hard time making my mind up as far as where I stand on the Rapture. Arguments for pre-, mid-, and post- are seemingly convincing. I tend to lean toward the idea that there will not be a pretrib rapture... But I think it all comes down to, which argument is supported by the most biblical evidence WITHOUT bending and twisting scripture and ADDING or TAKING AWAY from God's Word.
Greetings
Its not that difficult ... ask yourself on the day you were saved ... were you saved from the wrath of God… or saved afterwards
If one answered beforehand then it supports the entire book in pre-tribulation.
If one answered afterwards… there is no support.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/11/2009 12:23:39 PM
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Ninjaearth
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Pre-trib.
After looking at the all the other positions I would say pre-trib allows for all events of the end time to take place while putting certain things in perspective. Main arguments come from Rev 3:8, 1 Thess 4, John 14. I also take into account that with post-trib certain things really wouldn't be necessary (like the two witnesses who preach the gospel, why would they be needed if the church was there already and out in the open) and even with 2 Thess 2 when God "gives them over" to the Antichrist's lies and delusions. The church would have a hard time preaching the gospel if God is the one giving them over to deception (not causing the deception). So, it just makes it more reasonable to say that a pre-trib rapture (despite it's recent history) would be the best interpretation of the rapture in Scripture.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/11/2009 1:54:45 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
So, it just makes it more reasonable to say that a pre-trib rapture (despite it's recent history) would be the best interpretation of the rapture in Scripture.
"lean not unto your own reasoning"......................LOL
It may appear as best for "rapture" but wrong for "resurrection."
We'll just have to disagree, because unless one is really asking questions
and looking for answers, nothing will change.
We can read "into" any passage anything we want.
If all believers are gone, where do the witnesses, etc. come from?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/11/2009 2:13:18 PM
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WesP
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quote:
I also take into account that with post-trib certain things really wouldn't be necessary (like the two witnesses who preach the gospel, why would they be needed if the church was there already and out in the open) and even with 2 Thess 2 when God "gives them over" to the Antichrist's lies and delusions. The church would have a hard time preaching the gospel if God is the one giving them over to deception (not causing the deception).
The two witnesses will be necessary to preach to the Jews because their time of blindness will end. Those gentiles who have not been saved at that point are the ones who will given over to delusion. See? Jews given sight; unsaved gentiles blinded. It has nothing to do with rapture.
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Wes
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/12/2009 6:56:03 AM
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Ninjaearth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
So, it just makes it more reasonable to say that a pre-trib rapture (despite it's recent history) would be the best interpretation of the rapture in Scripture.
"lean not unto your own reasoning"......................LOL
It may appear as best for "rapture" but wrong for "resurrection."
We'll just have to disagree, because unless one is really asking questions
and looking for answers, nothing will change.
We can read "into" any passage anything we want.
If all believers are gone, where do the witnesses, etc. come from?
Funny...I wasnt.
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/21/2009 4:06:00 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Coffee_Drinker
quote:
How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and how many believe in a post trib.
Pre-trib... Why?
Cause it makes sense. 
sorry for the sarcasm, but couldn't resist.
Because I took your question on face value
before I read the rest................
Pre-trib.............Why?!
okay, I'm done .............. takes foot out of mouth.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/30/2009 12:00:20 AM
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sdodsworth
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I used to not care about the time of the rapture, because no matter what when it happens we will know.
But then one sunday my pastor brought up a great point, he went thru the bible and explained how before every major judgement in the old testament, ok im not sure ALL but like the flood, sodom and gormora, God brought his people OUT OF THE SITUATION before the judgement. Noah and his family escaped wrath, and so did Lot. I am still reading NT so i cant say i know much more than that. input anyone...?
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/30/2009 1:03:32 AM
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bob97
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Your entirely right sdodsworth...as you say God will bring His people out of harms way before His judgment. The thing you have to ask is...what is and when does God's judgment start? In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, God took Lot and family away and then destroyed those left. In the case of the flood, God placed Noah and family on the ark before drowning everyone else. I think we can say that Gods judgment is actually His wrath.
Now...according to Revelation at what point does God start destroying unrighteous people. The last time I looked I don't think it was at the start of the last week of Daniel...in fact as I recall the first 3 1/2 years are without major trauma in the world. I think the bible tells us that Gods wrath doesn't start until sometime in the second half of the week.
Just my opinion anyway...
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: How many people believe in a pre-trib rapture and h... - 8/30/2009 11:58:58 AM
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Robertblog
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I believe, as I am studying ;End of the world, which actually is a translation error. There are 3 Greek names for world ; Aion,kosmos, and oikoumene. In Matthew ; Christ spoke of the Greek word ; Aion, meaning in Greek; End of Age. God's Covenant with Noah was never to completely wipe out life on the face of the earth again. I believe G-d's wrath is coming to the world[including the U.S.], but as He led Lot , and his family from Sodom and Gommorrah, so will He remove the Gentile Church, and seal the foreheads of the 144,000 Jews from His wrath. God's signature becomes new from old, but never changes! In the Peace Of Yehoshua; Jesus Christ, Robert; Check out Jews for Jesus Forum!I believe though we will see some judgement, as the righteous sometimes suffer with the unrighteous!
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my selection is not there. i believe in what some folks call "pan-trib" meaning it will all pan out in the end. i do think, though, that the pre-trib teaching is a VERY dangerous teaching. "Pre-tribbers" refuse to prepare for the deception they are very likely to face because they are convinced they will not be here for it. If they are here for it and have refused to prepare themselves, well, .......