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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2009 8:41:52 AM
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tylakeland
Posts: 19
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Wonderfully said.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2009 9:13:08 AM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tylakeland
Wonderfully said.
Thank you man, it's all love, no condemnation and trying to help each other while keeping it real. Peace
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/7/2009 1:25:25 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tylakeland
I guess I have questions. Like, If you are not looking at porn, fantasizing, or just plain horny. Why would you feel the need to masturbate? Morning wood, most of them go away after we pee. So when else would I masturbate unless I was aroused. There is a normal buildup of testosterone in the bloodstream that makes you want an orgasmic release. The longer it goes, the stronger the urge.
You do not have to stare at a menu or a picture of a Big Mac to get hungry, your body will tell you it wants food. Similarly, the body will tell you quite apart from porn or fantasy that it needs release.
Like hunger or thirst, it can be put off but not indefinately. You may not need it to live, but you do need it for everything to operate correctly.quote:
My other question comes from the fact that unless a husband and wife are involved in this act together. How does it form intimacy? If I go and masturbate when my wife is sleeping next to me, how does that make us closer? The big M is a very different dynamic when you are married and when you are single. If you are married, your wife has authority over your body - and in context specifically your sexuality. (1 Cor 7) You are responsible before God to keep her satisfied and she is responsible before God to keep you satisfied. If you take that satisfaction without her and more specifically without her permission/blessing, you are violating your marriage covenant. OTOH, if she gives you her blessing to do that, I do not see it as a problem as she is involved at least at the decision level.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2009 2:34:37 AM
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tylakeland
Posts: 19
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
[Like hunger or thirst, it can be put off but not indefinately. You may not need it to live, but you do need it for everything to operate correctly.[quote}
So you believe that masturbation is needed for us to function properly? What about the natural release of the body on its own? Our bodies, if properly left alone will discharge wont they. Now i know it becomes dificult after a man gets used to masturbating, but is it safe to say that masturbation is needed?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/17/2009 10:25:03 PM
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yeahright352
Posts: 15
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is it ok to put my real name and picture here and a link to some things i have on youtube here?
i need to take this to another level here!
free by the power of God!
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/18/2009 7:01:36 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tylakeland
So you believe that masturbation is needed for us to function properly? What about the natural release of the body on its own? Our bodies, if properly left alone will discharge wont they. Now i know it becomes dificult after a man gets used to masturbating, but is it safe to say that masturbation is needed?
Actually, only about 40% of guys will ever have nocturnal emissions. It has little to do with whether they M or not. While the number of emissions will be less if they M regularly, it continues even if they M a LOT.
There are others who have the dreams, get right up to the "wet" part and then wake up being right on the edge of release. That used to happen to me frequently. It is not a good place to be.
There are another 5-10% whose testosterone levels are low enough to allow them to not have to M or have wet dreams.
So that leaves the rest of us, 50-55% who need the release from hormonal pressures but are unable to get it from nocturnal emissions.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/21/2009 1:26:23 PM
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Memphis_Dwight
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I get angry when people start claiming that lust equals sexual arousal and sexual arousal equals sin. No basis. It is one assumption on top of another.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/21/2009 3:13:13 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memphis_Dwight
I get angry when people start claiming that lust equals sexual arousal and sexual arousal equals sin. No basis. It is one assumption on top of another. No - that is not assumption, it is definition. Everyone plays these word-definition games.
That is why it is better to go back to the original language (or as close to it as we can get) and use the understood meaning of THOSE words.
The process you refer to came about as the church got further and further from its Jewish origins and the language of the day was lost in history. So instead of trying to understand the original context, the church fathers kept redefining the words to be further and further away from what was originally intended. That yeilds the results you decry here.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2009 8:10:48 AM
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Memphis_Dwight
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Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
The original greek for covet: ἐπιθυμέω
It is the same greek word used in the bible for which is translated the word covet. And then couple that with the fact that the original greek for woman is
γυνή which is also the word for wife.
So I think that Christ was saying that if a man were coveting another man's wife, then he is already making steps to commit adultery with her. In other words, if one breaks the commandment about coveting his neighbors wife, then one will break the commandment about committing adultery.
I don't think this passage has anything to do with looking at some girl in a bikini on TV.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2009 10:33:55 AM
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DaveW
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ἐπιθυμέω is translated lust, desire, covet, depending on context. It is certainly used in translating the last commandment in a couple of places. And yes, the word for "woman" indicates she is married. It is talking about desiring another man's wife.
Our senior pastor agrees with you. He said since the word is tied to "covet" and the passage is dealing with issues from the 10 commandments, that in order to rise to the level of sinful lust it has to become something like idolatry. That person and ONLY that person has become an obsession.
I am not so sure I would go that far, but I think his direction is correct. So in general I would agree with you also.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2009 11:17:53 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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Just another chime-in for the maintenance-types: We're not to be mastered by anything. Maybe I'm just not old enough to have M turned into a mechanical operation, completely devoid of the desire required for "output," but I hardly see it falling in the same category as a regularly-scheduled colonoscopy or prostate exam.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/27/2009 5:46:03 AM
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sunofone
Posts: 485
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nuclear_sidewalk
Just another chime-in for the maintenance-types: We're not to be mastered by anything. Maybe I'm just not old enough to have M turned into a mechanical operation, completely devoid of the desire required for "output," but I hardly see it falling in the same category as a regularly-scheduled colonoscopy or prostate exam.
Unless I completely miss the intent of your post, I believe you miss the maintenance types point of view. Sexual output is a biological imperative. Whether you masturbate, have wet dreams, or engage in sexual activity. It is all driven by the physiological/mental response to sexual output.
The question becomes is masturbation wrong? Is it sinful? The answer is as simple and yet as complex, as this or many other questions. Is eating wrong? Is eating sinful?
You can clearly and readily identify where at first the question in regards to eating seems ridiculous, however upon closer examination you can see where a more complex answer must be considered.
None of us will deny that we get hungry and must of necessity provide nourishment to our bodies to include thirst by the way. What we can not argue is that we must of necessity eat, pizza, chicken, meat, or any particular food item to satisfy the biological demand, with exception to water for thirst.
Is it sinful to eat any of the food groups I mentioned? We're right back to the simple/complex answer again.
The same is true for sexual output, where the biological imperative is at play and masturbation is but one of several choices to channel or satisfy it. Is it sinful to masturbate? Simple/complex
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/28/2009 6:22:23 AM
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DaveW
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In a similar thread in the women's folder this was written:
quote:
People who are serious about avoiding sin don't just do this nebulous thing called "rely on God" that no one can explain but everyone likes to beat over everyone else's head because it sounds really spiritual. People who are serious about avoiding sin do practical things to stay on the right path. If I am a glutton, I don't simply "lean on God" - I may lock my fridge or get rid of all the junk food in my house. Contrary to what some here think - THAT is leaning on God! If I struggle with gossip, I may need to take myself off the church prayer chain distribution list because what is intended for good, may be too much for me to handle. THAT is leaning on God! If I can't look at a naked body without lusting, maybe I need to avoid working in healthcare (which is not sinful but for some may not be good). THAT is leaning on God.
So if one person finds that masturbation is a way to keep their thoughts pure and avoid sexual sin, why is that "bad" but when someone doesn't kiss until their wedding day for identical reasons something to be applauded and be proud of? Neither are sins according to Scripture. Neither are options for everyone. Neither are even encouraged in Scripture. Both are practical ways some folks use to avoid what Scripture DOES call sin.
I could not have put it better.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2009 8:46:14 PM
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dnp200450
Posts: 397
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Wow this thread is huge! I have an interesting idea. If a man has sexual issues with M, lust, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, and porn, why not just eliminate the temptation directly from the source. Tamoxifen, Triptorelin, Depo-Provera just a few of the substances I was thinking about. A few thoughts about this class of medication:
• Have been clinically proven to greatly diminish sexual desire, thoughts and urges.
• Temptation might not be an issue because it might not exist.
• Without the temptation in the first place, frustration would not exist.
• Without frustration the soul, mind and body would not be sexually unsettled.
• The man would be much less likely to involved with sexual sins and guilt.
• Fewer unwanted erections.
• Fewer staining nocturnal emissions and the sexually unsettling dreams that frequently accompany them.
• Fewer unwanted pregnancies.
• Fewer abortions (murders).
• More time to focus on spiritual life without the distractions of the flesh.
• Not permanent, the effects only last as long as the man is one a
So folks tell me what you think!
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2009 4:09:23 PM
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Samurai_of_God777
Posts: 49
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Admittedly,I have been struggling with this sin for a while now.Several times i have resisted (thanks to God)
now i am resisting again.a few lessons learned in my bouts with M that have helped me out are:
1.Draw Close to God(obvious enough)
2.Make the choice not to M
3.I tie a bandanna around the hand i usually use.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2009 5:29:45 AM
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Samurai_of_God777
Posts: 49
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I can't think of any other place to bounce a few ideas off of people.
Ok,I am 19 almost 20.I have been struggling for years w this problem (M) and I had a few thoughts.
1.In 1 cor 7:1-2 paul writes saying that to avoid fornication let every man have his own wife.Now as a Christian struggling with this i was wondering why God hasn't given me a woman to marry.2.Then I remembered something along the lines of Phil 4:13.I realized that God will help me through this and hasn't given me a wife yet because i'm not ready,as sex isn't the only reason to get married.
I don't know,sirs,what do you think?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2009 6:43:06 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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Samurai - you have hit on an important point. In biblical times (at least NT times as we have many written documents from that period) it was common to get married at about 13 or 14. Marriages were arranged by the parents and after reaching the age of bar mitvah (12 1/2) the young man would get bethrothed and start making a home for his bride and future family. THat took about a year.
According to the Mishnah - the earliest written down version of the Jewish oral tradition, marriage was binding if both parties had reached the age of 9 years plus one day and they had sex.
Since marriage and sex came that early ( and puberty was somewhat later then) M was not the issue it is now, and there was not the years (or decades) of physical frustration typical of this day and age.
Since there is no direct biblical prohibition against M (and there is no lack of details in the Bible of even rare prohibited sexual practices) I believe the silence is there so that while not prefered, it allows for M as a valid form of relief for the frustrated.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2009 4:11:40 PM
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yankey225
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hello
May God bless you.
Thanks
Niamke
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/6/2009 5:18:16 AM
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Samurai_of_God777
Posts: 49
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I hope i didn't accidentally come off as meaning i thought M was ok,because personally,i think it's a sin.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Samurai - you have hit on an important point. In biblical times (at least NT times as we have many written documents from that period) it was common to get married at about 13 or 14. Marriages were arranged by the parents and after reaching the age of bar mitvah (12 1/2) the young man would get bethrothed and start making a home for his bride and future family. THat took about a year.
According to the Mishnah - the earliest written down version of the Jewish oral tradition, marriage was binding if both parties had reached the age of 9 years plus one day and they had sex.
Since marriage and sex came that early ( and puberty was somewhat later then) M was not the issue it is now, and there was not the years (or decades) of physical frustration typical of this day and age.
Since there is no direct biblical prohibition against M (and there is no lack of details in the Bible of even rare prohibited sexual practices) I believe the silence is there so that while not prefered, it allows for M as a valid form of relief for the frustrated.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/6/2009 5:21:31 AM
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Samurai_of_God777
Posts: 49
Joined: 6/3/2009
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Why compare food and sex?Food is necessary to live,sex isn't.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
quote:
ORIGINAL: nuclear_sidewalk
Just another chime-in for the maintenance-types: We're not to be mastered by anything. Maybe I'm just not old enough to have M turned into a mechanical operation, completely devoid of the desire required for "output," but I hardly see it falling in the same category as a regularly-scheduled colonoscopy or prostate exam.
Unless I completely miss the intent of your post, I believe you miss the maintenance types point of view. Sexual output is a biological imperative. Whether you masturbate, have wet dreams, or engage in sexual activity. It is all driven by the physiological/mental response to sexual output.
The question becomes is masturbation wrong? Is it sinful? The answer is as simple and yet as complex, as this or many other questions. Is eating wrong? Is eating sinful?
You can clearly and readily identify where at first the question in regards to eating seems ridiculous, however upon closer examination you can see where a more complex answer must be considered.
None of us will deny that we get hungry and must of necessity provide nourishment to our bodies to include thirst by the way. What we can not argue is that we must of necessity eat, pizza, chicken, meat, or any particular food item to satisfy the biological demand, with exception to water for thirst.
Is it sinful to eat any of the food groups I mentioned? We're right back to the simple/complex answer again.
The same is true for sexual output, where the biological imperative is at play and masturbation is but one of several choices to channel or satisfy it. Is it sinful to masturbate? Simple/complex
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/8/2009 3:38:40 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Samurai_of_God777
I hope i didn't accidentally come off as meaning i thought M was ok,because personally,i think it's a sin. I get that. I am asking on what [scriptural] basis do you make that decision?
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/8/2009 4:36:20 PM
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Samurai_of_God777
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Actually,it is a conscience based decision.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/13/2009 2:59:49 AM
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Anst
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Yeah. I'm still internally struggling with the issue of masturbation both intellectually and physically!
I've abstained for at least 2 months now and have had a few "wet dreams" in this period. A few I remembered while others I woke up with dried ejaculate all over my underwear—sometimes it reminds me of snail trails don’t you think?
Anyway I still personally consider masturbation a sin unless it’s mutual and within marriage between husband and wife (e.g. husband may need a little "help" in getting fully aroused to pleasure his wife or vice versa).
Having said that and being single I find the greatest difficulty is having the "wet dreams." Don’t get me wrong it feels good and obviously God meant orgasm for good. But, when you've done your level best to remain masturbation free and think to yourself that you’re finally doing okay and you don't feel like masturbating at all, and then BANG you experience a "wet dream" and all those feelings rush through your body and on some occasions in the morning after you might feel the urge for another release?! You know what I mean? It would be sure easy if you were married and could have sex with your wife morning and night--what a great way to start the day and end the night?!
But, being single how on earth are you supposed to win this battle and stay chaste by avoiding masturbation completely if your body is going to basically work against you and demand a release that seems to only “feed the addiction”? You know?! So you're always going to end up experiencing orgasm spontaneously through "wet dreams" which will make you feel like you’re back at square one again not unlike a never-ending cycle. I know sometimes when you have a nocturnal emission the following morning you actually feel relieved and the urge is gone, but on some occasions the urge is only heightened.
I guess this is what Paul means when he says:
“But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin” (Romans 7:23-25).
Mentally and spiritually we’re doing our best to avoid sin, but because of the corrupt and weak nature of the flesh we ‘re bound to fall and sin sometimes, especially when sex or orgasm is involved. The key is to have hope and keep the faith repenting when we stumble and fall and admitting that we are helpless to save ourselves and believing in the promises the Bible gives that as Jesus Christ overcame the flesh we too can have the victory in him being saved by his life of righteousness since his purpose was to save us from the flesh, the world and Satan too.
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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